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Dame is coming back to Portland!!!

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Re: Dame is coming back to Portland!!! 

Post#261 » by Tim Lehrbach » Mon Aug 11, 2025 1:26 am

BlazersBroncos wrote:The ownership was simply never willing to punt multiple seasons for a wish on a star.


But they did precisely that, shutting down very early in '22 and '23, then outright tanking the '24 season, to draft Shaedon, Scoot, and Clingan, all of whom were in the lottery for their star upside. They were just kinda unlucky with those first two picks, while having better luck acquiring young talent via trade (Deni, Camara). This team went deep rebuild, whether or not the rhetoric ever reflected it, even while Dame was still around.

I disagreed with the direction to enter a rebuild then, and I disagree with the decision to exit it now. I do agree 100% that there is more to the sport than winning championships, but I doubt this roster sustains its "fun" status after several more years of lousy to middling play. We should expect better than where management seems content to land.
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Re: Dame is coming back to Portland!!! 

Post#262 » by DaVoiceMaster » Mon Aug 11, 2025 3:27 am

I would not be sad to see the Blazers in the lottery for one more year. I'd like to see them pick up a young, talented PF.
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Re: Dame is coming back to Portland!!! 

Post#263 » by Norm2953 » Mon Aug 11, 2025 5:43 am

DaVoiceMaster wrote:I would not be sad to see the Blazers in the lottery for one more year. I'd like to see them pick up a young, talented PF.


Imagine if they could draft Cameron Boozer in the 2026 draft
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Re: Dame is coming back to Portland!!! 

Post#264 » by mojomarc » Mon Aug 11, 2025 4:45 pm

Wizenheimer wrote:
zzaj wrote:
Case2012 wrote:Dame will start. Regardless of logic, Dame will start unless he's basically a cripple but i have zero doubt he won't be a 20+ 6 and 4 guy like he's always been and probably will be until he's forced to the bench or asks to come off. What will probably happen is he'll still be a starter until he retires but he'll only play 50-60 games a year.


Which means the Blazers will end up forced to trade Scoot. And then they are back to square one at the PG position for the franchise, with a declining 36-37 year old at the helm.

I think fans are kidding themselves if they think it’s a positive from all angles. I struggle to even find a best possible outcome.


you know, it is possible that the Blazer F.O. of Cronin/Schmitz have already decided that Scoot's upside ceiling is well below where it was hyped to be at the draft. I don't think a front office will see their for-sure PGOTF and still go out and add 2 more veteran PG's. At the very least, that hedging a bet

Scoot was better last season that his rookie season, but he wasn't efficient as a shooter or playmaker. I think he'll get better but all those projections of him as the next Rose or Westbrook seem way off at this point



To be fair, at this point in his career these projections of Westbrook being Westbrook were all off as well. Westbrook was a year older entering the league, but as a freshman he averaged .398 shooting overall with an eFG% of 414. Scoot as a rookie was .385 but because he shot more threes his eFG% was .440. Russ was at a PER of 15.2 compared to Scoot's horrendous 9.5, but mostly due to Russ being a better rebounder and steal guy. Their TOVs weren't even that far off. Again, this was despite Russ coming in a year older.

I don't expect (heck, I don't want) Scoot to become a triple-double stat-greed monster like Russ became later, but I think tales of his progression being wildly behind may be more of a case of mis-set expectations rather than any real shortcoming. I think maybe we all thought coming from the G League he would progress faster, but maybe the difference between G-League and top-tier NCAA in 2008 is more in favor of NCAA players in terms of game-readiness?

Not trying to get into a big stats pissing contest here. I just think that it's way early to make any serious "ceiling" prognostications on Scoot. This is particularly true given that it seems it took until the last quarter of the season before Chauncey figured out how to use him.
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Re: Dame is coming back to Portland!!! 

Post#265 » by zzaj » Mon Aug 11, 2025 5:53 pm

mojomarc wrote:
Wizenheimer wrote:
zzaj wrote:
Which means the Blazers will end up forced to trade Scoot. And then they are back to square one at the PG position for the franchise, with a declining 36-37 year old at the helm.

I think fans are kidding themselves if they think it’s a positive from all angles. I struggle to even find a best possible outcome.


you know, it is possible that the Blazer F.O. of Cronin/Schmitz have already decided that Scoot's upside ceiling is well below where it was hyped to be at the draft. I don't think a front office will see their for-sure PGOTF and still go out and add 2 more veteran PG's. At the very least, that hedging a bet

Scoot was better last season that his rookie season, but he wasn't efficient as a shooter or playmaker. I think he'll get better but all those projections of him as the next Rose or Westbrook seem way off at this point



To be fair, at this point in his career these projections of Westbrook being Westbrook were all off as well. Westbrook was a year older entering the league, but as a freshman he averaged .398 shooting overall with an eFG% of 414. Scoot as a rookie was .385 but because he shot more threes his eFG% was .440. Russ was at a PER of 15.2 compared to Scoot's horrendous 9.5, but mostly due to Russ being a better rebounder and steal guy. Their TOVs weren't even that far off. Again, this was despite Russ coming in a year older.

I don't expect (heck, I don't want) Scoot to become a triple-double stat-greed monster like Russ became later, but I think tales of his progression being wildly behind may be more of a case of mis-set expectations rather than any real shortcoming. I think maybe we all thought coming from the G League he would progress faster, but maybe the difference between G-League and top-tier NCAA in 2008 is more in favor of NCAA players in terms of game-readiness?

Not trying to get into a big stats pissing contest here. I just think that it's way early to make any serious "ceiling" prognostications on Scoot. This is particularly true given that it seems it took until the last quarter of the season before Chauncey figured out how to use him.


Yeah, I think this season is going to be very telling for Scoot. PG is probably the hardest position in the NBA to learn, Scoot had basically no time as a PG running a high level team (No Gleague and HS don't count), and by all accounts the guy is a hard worker. IMO an improved 3pt shot would really open up what he can provide on the court.

In my opinion he lacks a lot of the "feel" things that natural PGs just have, but those will come somewhat with time. My sense is that he isn't the brightest BB bulb in the room which also will improve with time. At this point he tends to get blinders on both offense and defense, and he doesn't do well with secondary or tertiary options.

The thing I'm most surprised about with Scoot? I knew he was never going to wow athletically like Rose or Westbrook, but I thought for sure his change of pace on drives was going to help him. He seemed to have an elite knack for change of pace coming in. We've seen almost none of that from him as a pro. I think some of that is that defenses know they can crowd him--and help in the NBA comes waaaaay faster than anything he ever saw before. So unless he's attacking a spread defense, he'll have a help defender in his lap as soon as he loses his primary defender.

I think it's a bit overstated, but I do think Jrue and Lillard will set him up with some Vet savvy tricks to help along his development. This season we'll see how well he processes, and if his brain can catch up with his body.
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Re: Dame is coming back to Portland!!! 

Post#266 » by mojomarc » Mon Aug 11, 2025 8:08 pm

zzaj wrote:
mojomarc wrote:
Wizenheimer wrote:
you know, it is possible that the Blazer F.O. of Cronin/Schmitz have already decided that Scoot's upside ceiling is well below where it was hyped to be at the draft. I don't think a front office will see their for-sure PGOTF and still go out and add 2 more veteran PG's. At the very least, that hedging a bet

Scoot was better last season that his rookie season, but he wasn't efficient as a shooter or playmaker. I think he'll get better but all those projections of him as the next Rose or Westbrook seem way off at this point



To be fair, at this point in his career these projections of Westbrook being Westbrook were all off as well. Westbrook was a year older entering the league, but as a freshman he averaged .398 shooting overall with an eFG% of 414. Scoot as a rookie was .385 but because he shot more threes his eFG% was .440. Russ was at a PER of 15.2 compared to Scoot's horrendous 9.5, but mostly due to Russ being a better rebounder and steal guy. Their TOVs weren't even that far off. Again, this was despite Russ coming in a year older.

I don't expect (heck, I don't want) Scoot to become a triple-double stat-greed monster like Russ became later, but I think tales of his progression being wildly behind may be more of a case of mis-set expectations rather than any real shortcoming. I think maybe we all thought coming from the G League he would progress faster, but maybe the difference between G-League and top-tier NCAA in 2008 is more in favor of NCAA players in terms of game-readiness?

Not trying to get into a big stats pissing contest here. I just think that it's way early to make any serious "ceiling" prognostications on Scoot. This is particularly true given that it seems it took until the last quarter of the season before Chauncey figured out how to use him.


Yeah, I think this season is going to be very telling for Scoot. PG is probably the hardest position in the NBA to learn, Scoot had basically no time as a PG running a high level team (No Gleague and HS don't count), and by all accounts the guy is a hard worker. IMO an improved 3pt shot would really open up what he can provide on the court.

In my opinion he lacks a lot of the "feel" things that natural PGs just have, but those will come somewhat with time. My sense is that he isn't the brightest BB bulb in the room which also will improve with time. At this point he tends to get blinders on both offense and defense, and he doesn't do well with secondary or tertiary options.

The thing I'm most surprised about with Scoot? I knew he was never going to wow athletically like Rose or Westbrook, but I thought for sure his change of pace on drives was going to help him. He seemed to have an elite knack for change of pace coming in. We've seen almost none of that from him as a pro. I think some of that is that defenses know they can crowd him--and help in the NBA comes waaaaay faster than anything he ever saw before. So unless he's attacking a spread defense, he'll have a help defender in his lap as soon as he loses his primary defender.

I think it's a bit overstated, but I do think Jrue and Lillard will set him up with some Vet savvy tricks to help along his development. This season we'll see how well he processes, and if his brain can catch up with his body.


I don't really disagree--this will be a make or break. But I do think this is an open question more than a "Cronin has already decided he needs a different answer" situation. I think there's a real question whether January and February are what Scoot will deliver or if March is more of his thing when it comes to three point shooting. If he can hit threes at 40% instead of 30%, his change of pace becomes a lot more effective than if teams feel they can sag on him.

We shall see. But like I said--my objection is more that there is any sort of final conclusion to be had at this point. I think we've seen enough flashes that whatever questions seemed closed in December last year got re-opened.
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Re: Dame is coming back to Portland!!! 

Post#267 » by DaVoiceMaster » Tue Aug 12, 2025 2:16 am

Norm2953 wrote:
DaVoiceMaster wrote:I would not be sad to see the Blazers in the lottery for one more year. I'd like to see them pick up a young, talented PF.


Imagine if they could draft Cameron Boozer in the 2026 draft


Is he related to Carlos? I sure didn't like him.
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Re: Dame is coming back to Portland!!! 

Post#268 » by Wizenheimer » Tue Aug 12, 2025 3:40 am

DaVoiceMaster wrote:
Norm2953 wrote:
DaVoiceMaster wrote:I would not be sad to see the Blazers in the lottery for one more year. I'd like to see them pick up a young, talented PF.


Imagine if they could draft Cameron Boozer in the 2026 draft


Is he related to Carlos? I sure didn't like him.


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Re: Dame is coming back to Portland!!! 

Post#269 » by Pattycakes » Tue Aug 12, 2025 3:22 pm

Tim Lehrbach wrote:
BlazersBroncos wrote:The ownership was simply never willing to punt multiple seasons for a wish on a star.


But they did precisely that, shutting down very early in '22 and '23, then outright tanking the '24 season, to draft Shaedon, Scoot, and Clingan, all of whom were in the lottery for their star upside. They were just kinda unlucky with those first two picks, while having better luck acquiring young talent via trade (Deni, Camara). This team went deep rebuild, whether or not the rhetoric ever reflected it, even while Dame was still around.

I disagreed with the direction to enter a rebuild then, and I disagree with the decision to exit it now. I do agree 100% that there is more to the sport than winning championships, but I doubt this roster sustains its "fun" status after several more years of lousy to middling play. We should expect better than where management seems content to land.


Imagine writing off a 21 and 22 year old. Couldn’t be me
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Re: Dame is coming back to Portland!!! 

Post#270 » by zzaj » Tue Aug 12, 2025 4:24 pm

Wizenheimer wrote:
DaVoiceMaster wrote:
Norm2953 wrote:
Imagine if they could draft Cameron Boozer in the 2026 draft


Is he related to Carlos? I sure didn't like him.


son


And a helluva basketball player--so is his brother. I could see a world were both are better than their dad.

EDIT: And yeah, I interacted with Carlos Boozer a few times...not a fan.
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Re: Dame is coming back to Portland!!! 

Post#271 » by dckingsfan » Tue Aug 12, 2025 4:34 pm

Pattycakes wrote:
Tim Lehrbach wrote:
BlazersBroncos wrote:The ownership was simply never willing to punt multiple seasons for a wish on a star.

But they did precisely that, shutting down very early in '22 and '23, then outright tanking the '24 season, to draft Shaedon, Scoot, and Clingan, all of whom were in the lottery for their star upside. They were just kinda unlucky with those first two picks, while having better luck acquiring young talent via trade (Deni, Camara). This team went deep rebuild, whether or not the rhetoric ever reflected it, even while Dame was still around.

I disagreed with the direction to enter a rebuild then, and I disagree with the decision to exit it now. I do agree 100% that there is more to the sport than winning championships, but I doubt this roster sustains its "fun" status after several more years of lousy to middling play. We should expect better than where management seems content to land.

Imagine writing off a 21 and 22 year old. Couldn’t be me

Why the drive by on a pretty good post. Let's be honest that Sharpe and Scoot underperformed their draft position(s). In no way does this post imply they have given up on Scoot (other than they brought in Dame & Jrue), rather they see he has a ways to go. And same with Sharpe, they didn't trade him like they did Ayton/Simons.

Also, the term "unlucky" doesn't mean flat out wrong/stupid. They didn't luck out and get the #1 pick in either year. Does that mean it was the wrong pick at the time? Maybe missing out on Amen Thompson, Dyson Daniels or Jalen Williams could be seen as a miss but that wasn't the point of the post was it.

The point of the post is that the Blazers have exited their rebuild and the poster feels it is too early for that tactic. Do you feel it was too early or do you feel that the Blazers are ready to contend now, if so, why?
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Re: Dame is coming back to Portland!!! 

Post#272 » by BlazersBroncos » Tue Aug 12, 2025 5:05 pm

I would argue that Sharpe has barely underperformed a #7 draft slot. He is near 15 PER - the league average. At age 21. Yes, he has a ton to work on but even if his only improvement was the 3PT getting up to 35% - your looking at a guy that is about the average return for a #7 pick IMO.

Scoot has been quite bad for a #3 pick though.

That being said, both are still very young and IMO have a larger learning curve due to their unconventional pre-NBA background (Not playing in NCAA, playing in the dumpster fire that is Ignite). I think most guys from conventional backgrounds should not really be graded until after their 3rd NBA season (IE guys coming from European leagues or NCAA) - I would say for Scoot and Sharpe that Y3 curve should be pushed out to Y4, but I may just be optimistic.

IDK, I am normally a downer - and was quite down on this team for years. But I am excited about this season. I think there are decent chances Scoot and Sharpe take that next step - and if both perform like even the average return on a 3 and 7 pick the teams outlook is much rosier (Scoot has farther to go here than Sharpe).
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Re: Dame is coming back to Portland!!! 

Post#273 » by Walton1one » Tue Aug 12, 2025 6:10 pm

Both Scoot & Sharpe have underperformed via their draft slot, that is true. Most "redrafts" have them going lower than they were picked. It is not their fault per se, that is the fault of the front office\scouting department, namely Schmitz\Cronin.

Need anyone be reminded that they had lottery grades on Murray & Rupert and reached for Yang this year @ #16. Not one player, with maybe the exception of Clingan (TBD), has outperformed their draft slot, that is an indictment on the organization more than those players.

That being said, I don't think this organization has really given Scoot a fair shot.

LY Scoot's advanced stats were pretty good for a 21yr old & given the headwinds he faced rotation & roster wise.

Ball handling in the 90th percentile (Asst\TO)
Assist rate of 27.37%, also in the 90th percentile
NetRTG in the 62nd percentile - 4th best on the team
4th highest FT rate - 2nd highest ORTG

Needs to work on his turnovers (14th percentile), defense (33rd percentile), eFG% (29th percentile & TS% (34th percentile). Finishing at the rim is still a work in progress, but 3pt shooting was improved (32% to 35%).

Not sure with Jrue & Grant on this team that he will get a fair shake this year either, just mind boggling IMO. Coming off the bench yet again, yes, he will get his 25+ minutes a game, but playing alongside whom exactly? Shaedon Sharpe (likely), Kris Murray, Yang\Reath, Thybulle & Wesley?

Teams will still dare the Blazers to shoot b\c they are so bad at it & clog the paint, making it harder for Scoot to drive, which is a strength of his. Same problems, different year.
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Re: Dame is coming back to Portland!!! 

Post#274 » by DusterBuster » Tue Aug 12, 2025 6:26 pm

I'm with Bronco on this. Scoot has wildly unperformed and may struggle to be a Top 10 pick in a redraft.

Sharpe on the other hand I would argue has been around the same spot. Might slip a spot or two but nothing as major as Scoot. That is something you live with for any draft pick imo.
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Re: Dame is coming back to Portland!!! 

Post#275 » by Wizenheimer » Tue Aug 12, 2025 6:46 pm

DusterBuster wrote:I'm with Bronco on this. Scoot has wildly unperformed and may struggle to be a Top 10 pick in a redraft.

Sharpe on the other hand I would argue has been around the same spot. Might slip a spot or two but nothing as major as Scoot. That is something you live with for any draft pick imo.


it's not really a complement, but at least with Sharpe, except for Jalen Williams, nobody drafted after Sharpe has really been better. Maybe Dyson Daniels because of defense. That's about it

Scoot has a little more competition for consideration, starting with Amen
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Re: Dame is coming back to Portland!!! 

Post#276 » by Walton1one » Tue Aug 12, 2025 7:06 pm

Sharpe still has a good runway to improve IMO, does not turn 23 until next May...

Both his EFG% & TS% saw upticks this year

EFG% - 47.5% (22nd percentile) to 51.9% (41st perentile)
TS% - 52.3% (29th percentile) to 55.1% (42nd percentile)

and this is with his poor 3pt shooting (on more attempts per game 6.6 vs 5.6)

Points per 2ptFG 1.11 (LY .91)
Points per 3ptFG .93 (LY 1.0)

In short, needs to stop settling for 3pt shots and drive to the rim more, where he is very good. His FT rate (21.9) took a bad dip LY (7th best on team) compared to 23/24 (27.4, 4th best on team). Jearmi Grant BTW 36.7 in 23/24 to 28.9 in 24/25 (better than Sharpe, that should not happen).

Sharpe was one of the most efficient scorers at the rim in the NBA (.755%), only 22% of his shots were at the rim, 14% from 3-10ft and a whopping 42.8% from 3pt. This screams shot selection issue...
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Re: Dame is coming back to Portland!!! 

Post#277 » by dckingsfan » Wed Aug 13, 2025 12:11 am

Walton1one wrote:Sharpe still has a good runway to improve IMO, does not turn 23 until next May...

Both his EFG% & TS% saw upticks this year

EFG% - 47.5% (22nd percentile) to 51.9% (41st perentile)
TS% - 52.3% (29th percentile) to 55.1% (42nd percentile)

and this is with his poor 3pt shooting (on more attempts per game 6.6 vs 5.6)

Points per 2ptFG 1.11 (LY .91)
Points per 3ptFG .93 (LY 1.0)

In short, needs to stop settling for 3pt shots and drive to the rim more, where he is very good. His FT rate (21.9) took a bad dip LY (7th best on team) compared to 23/24 (27.4, 4th best on team). Jearmi Grant BTW 36.7 in 23/24 to 28.9 in 24/25 (better than Sharpe, that should not happen).

Sharpe was one of the most efficient scorers at the rim in the NBA (.755%), only 22% of his shots were at the rim, 14% from 3-10ft and a whopping 42.8% from 3pt. This screams shot selection issue...

This. Now the other question that goes with this analysis. Will Billups or someone else on the coaching staff be able to get him to buy-in to this? The corollary question, why hasn't this happened already?

This is really a huge puzzle to me - I guess we are never going to know since we aren't in the locker room.
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Re: Dame is coming back to Portland!!! 

Post#278 » by BlazersBroncos » Wed Aug 13, 2025 12:34 am

I think Sharpe is closer to being a true ‘hit’ as a 7th pick than some believe. If he can do 2 things, he becomes a legit true scoring talent from the SG spot.

Improve the 3 to 35%+ (Easy one IMO - he has the shot, it just hasn’t gone in since his rookie year).

Then the hard one - defense.

If Sharpe stays the same player from last year but gets his 3PT % up and becomes league average at defense your looking at a outcome that is exactly what was projected when he was drafted - elite scoring SG with prototypical size and a unique smoothness to his game - able to score at all 3 levels - decent on defense - not really a ‘create for others’ guy but more of a finisher - never will be a dog effort wise.

That’s exactly the scouting report he had coming out. 25ppg potential with some warts (creating, motor).

As others said - no one sans Jalen Williams would go before Sharpe in a redraft. You still take him over an elite role player like Dyson. Especially on this team, we need the Sharpe player profile much more than a SG version of Camara.

Scoot on the other hand - your looking at a half dozen big points of player development before he can even be a average starter IMO - shooting, defensive IQ, off ball play, finishing, fouling, turnovers. I could probably think of a few more.

I am not ‘out’ on Scoot but think there path to fulfilling their pre-draft archetype is not close. Sharpe really has 2 spots to improve (and 3PT shooting he already showed out on as a rookie). Scoot is a total work in progress.
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Re: Dame is coming back to Portland!!! 

Post#279 » by Dame Lizard » Wed Aug 13, 2025 1:25 am

BlazersBroncos wrote:I think Sharpe is closer to being a true ‘hit’ as a 7th pick than some believe. If he can do 2 things, he becomes a legit true scoring talent from the SG spot.

Improve the 3 to 35%+ (Easy one IMO - he has the shot, it just hasn’t gone in since his rookie year).

Then the hard one - defense.

If Sharpe stays the same player from last year but gets his 3PT % up and becomes league average at defense your looking at a outcome that is exactly what was projected when he was drafted - elite scoring SG with prototypical size and a unique smoothness to his game - able to score at all 3 levels - decent on defense - not really a ‘create for others’ guy but more of a finisher - never will be a dog effort wise.

That’s exactly the scouting report he had coming out. 25ppg potential with some warts (creating, motor).

As others said - no one sans Jalen Williams would go before Sharpe in a redraft. You still take him over an elite role player like Dyson. Especially on this team, we need the Sharpe player profile much more than a SG version of Camara.

Scoot on the other hand - your looking at a half dozen big points of player development before he can even be a average starter IMO - shooting, defensive IQ, off ball play, finishing, fouling, turnovers. I could probably think of a few more.

I am not ‘out’ on Scoot but think there path to fulfilling their pre-draft archetype is not close. Sharpe really has 2 spots to improve (and 3PT shooting he already showed out on as a rookie). Scoot is a total work in progress.
I'm taking Dyson over Sharpe in a redraft undertaken today.
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Re: Dame is coming back to Portland!!! 

Post#280 » by Walton1one » Wed Aug 13, 2025 1:34 am

Yeah they are close IMO

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