Welcome to the Phoenix Suns: Rasheer Fleming!

[Ghost of Kleine]

JJ Hickson NEVER was a fringe All-Star player.

He showed some potential before the end of his rookie contract but he couldn't reach that potential. He faded pretty fast and was out of the league when he was just 27 years old.

Sure, you're absolutely right that he never made an all star team. But that's why I specifically said fringe all star ( as in close to but not an all star) because during his brief stint of playing time right after Lebron left Cleveland in 2010- 2011, he was putting up very solid production of 13 points and 8 rebounds in his 2nd-3rd season.

Sorry but you are wrong. I specifically said that JJ Hickson never was a FRINGE All-Star player.It’s not even debatable, the guy was out of the league before his prime. Nothing special, he was never in any conversation for All-Star game.

And his game wasn't at all like Fleming's game. Similar size, coming out of college, just that. I remember Hickson pretty well because he showed some potential during his rookie contract and he was considered an important piece in a trade with the Cavs for Amare...but it never happened at the end.

He was a headcase. Some drugs stuff and then some ilegal issues and he was done.

Your personal opinion being noted man. I suppose that we can only agree to disagree here! I gave you the stats during his era / playing time in his role.  I also shared with you the information that numerous nba pundits (experts)promoted him as/ expected him to become an all star level player.  

Also, he played for 8 seasons in the NBA before having his career derailed by tearing his ACL. But even so, prior to that, he was a dominant rebounder and strong athletic talent in the paint/ around the rim.

He did have a faceup (midrange shot) and also was a capable defender and shotblocker when engaged (problem being he wasn't consistent either in motor or engagement defensively).

And for the time that he played for the Blazers, putting up  double/double production on over 50% FG shooting for his positional role was absolutely fringe all star caliber production.  He was fringe all star in that despite not ever making the all star roster,  


He still put up statistical production during that span to be considered an all star talent if that year, they didn't have that position flush with top tier talent pushing him out of consideration, he might've been selected as a reserve?? But the selections are also heavily subjective as I'm sure you're aware.

Yes, they have their differences as I pointed out in my original post, but clearly they also have their similarities that I also pointed out and referenced from consensus information/ opinions.

Again, they're both big physical, very athletic athletic, physical frontcourt bigs with percieved high end potential based upon their size, mobility and athletic talent. Even some of their limitations are similar. I openly acknowledged that Fleming is much more offensively polished coming into the league which gives him a distinct edge.

But dismissing their obvious statural and athletic profile similarities as well as their similar archetype playstyles ( contextually) relative to their physical, athletic talent and mobility for their size is still an incorrect position regardless of subjective analysis man.

They have their clear differences, but also their similarities too which I've repeatedly pointed out. And sure, Hickson didn't pan out as hyped, but in fairness, Fleming is still an unknown commodity as to how he'll pan out too. His trajectory is purely theoretical at this point, and although he has a much more polished skillset coming into the league, he's not yet a sure thing either.

My base comparison is accurate predicated upon their hype entering into the league, their similarities in physical and athletic profiles, their intriguing wingspans ( over 7 ft), their mobility and physicality and both being billed as strong rebounding bigs that are adept at scoring around the rim ( again due to athletic profiles and strength/ physicality, etc).

[dremill24]

Just take the L and move on

[Ghost of Kleine]

JJ Hickson NEVER was a fringe All-Star player.

He showed some potential before the end of his rookie contract but he couldn't reach that potential. He faded pretty fast and was out of the league when he was just 27 years old.

Sure, you're absolutely right that he never made an all star team. But that's why I specifically said fringe all star ( as in close to but not an all star) because during his brief stint of playing time right after Lebron left Cleveland in 2010- 2011, he was putting up very solid production of 13 points and 8 rebounds in his 2nd-3rd season.

And then in 12/13 with Portland, he put up 12 points and 10 rebounds on 56% FGs. So near all star type production for his position ( 4/5) in that era. And many NBA pundits believed he'd become an all star level player.

And yes, he never lived up to the hype. And he tore his ACL in Denver, which really derailed his career. Sometimes things happen, and sometimes players don't pan out. But early on even coming out of college, he was viewed as having that kind of potential.

Now the Fleming/ Hickson comparison is apt because of multiple similarities such as their size, athleticism, physicality, tenacity as rebounders, neither were/ are considered great ballhandlers, playmakers or offensive creators.

Both share similarities in size, girth, strength and considered favorable/ long wingspan and athletic physical gifts with high upside. Hickson was considered unstoppable in the interior around the rim at times, and Fleming also is hyped up as a strong physical interior player. But are/ were comparably hyped up as high end rotation level bigs with immense talents due to the physical/ athletic traits.

And both were/ are considered high motor, physical energy bigs coming out of college, and with the above referenced shortcomings to their games.

BUT with more versatility and offensive polish. And better defensive traits. Although Hickson had very solid defensive capabilities due to his athleticism, physicality and size/ length (similar attributes to Fleming). But the edge goes to Fleming due to his defensive IQ, commitment and motor.

Lastly, this link offers good comparison coming out of college to reflect on some of their base similarities:

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=rasheer-fleming--jj-hickson

When 12/10 become fringe all star. He played his role well next to Lebron and that's about the extent of it.

Well, for starters man, that was playing for the Blazers, and obviously not playing off of Lebron at all. And if looking at that year (era of basketball), if not having to compete against superstars in their prime such as Anthony Davis, Dwight Howard, Kevin Durant, Blake Griffin, and Tim Duncan, even LaMarcus Aldridge too etc.

He'd be hard pressed to be a fan/ popularity selection to even make a reserve selection under those conditions due to his limited offensive skillset.

This us why I Specifically said " fringe" as in not being favored in that grouping or outside of it, or an extreme, radical or outlier consideration for the grouping ( contextually).

AI Overview

+8

Based on his stats, J.J. Hickson's 2012-2013 season with the Portland Trail Blazers was arguably his best statistically, but it wasn't quite at an All-Star level

. While he did rank highly in some categories, the overall production didn't place him among the players typically considered for an All-Star selection in a competitive Western Conference. 

In conclusion, J.J. Hickson had a solid 2012-2013 season, particularly as a rebounder. However, to be considered a legitimate All-Star contender in the NBA, especially in the Western Conference that season, a player typically needs a more well-rounded statistical profile, including higher scoring output, better playmaking, or more defensive impact. 


J.J. Hickson's rebounding numbers were among the league leaders that season, placing him 7th overall with 10.3 rebounds per game. He also ranked 10th among centers in ESPN's Hollinger "Value Added" statistic. However, his scoring, assists, and overall impact weren't typically at the level expected for an All-Star selection. While a breakout season for Hickson, it wasn't enough to earn him an All-Star nod. 

Overall, Hickson was an ( at times) high level rotation frontcourt big that was percieved to have a very high ceiling trajectory due to his size profile, wingspan, athletic talent, physical playstyle promoting potential dominance in the frontcourt, and a basic faceup game and defensive potential again due to his athletic profile and willing physicality.

He didn't pan out due to lack of motor and engagement defensively. But the comparison that I've made between the two players and their hyped trajectory (upon entering the league) is wholly accurate based upon the consensus opinions of their physical and athletic profiles, rebounding strengths, scoring around the rim, and their mobility (potential for development).

These similarities in relation to those contextual factors, and how they could translate into the league. And of course, Fleming having a distinct advantage in being significantly more polished offensively, but also operating contextually in a completely different era of basketball.

But equitably being unproven with only a theoretical ceiling this early with his nba career not even having started yet!

[lilfishi22]

Sure, you're absolutely right that he never made an all star team. But that's why I specifically said fringe all star ( as in close to but not an all star) because during his brief stint of playing time right after Lebron left Cleveland in 2010- 2011, he was putting up very solid production of 13 points and 8 rebounds in his 2nd-3rd season.

And then in 12/13 with Portland, he put up 12 points and 10 rebounds on 56% FGs. So near all star type production for his position ( 4/5) in that era. And many NBA pundits believed he'd become an all star level player.

And yes, he never lived up to the hype. And he tore his ACL in Denver, which really derailed his career. Sometimes things happen, and sometimes players don't pan out. But early on even coming out of college, he was viewed as having that kind of potential.

Now the Fleming/ Hickson comparison is apt because of multiple similarities such as their size, athleticism, physicality, tenacity as rebounders, neither were/ are considered great ballhandlers, playmakers or offensive creators.

Both share similarities in size, girth, strength and considered favorable/ long wingspan and athletic physical gifts with high upside. Hickson was considered unstoppable in the interior around the rim at times, and Fleming also is hyped up as a strong physical interior player. But are/ were comparably hyped up as high end rotation level bigs with immense talents due to the physical/ athletic traits.

And both were/ are considered high motor, physical energy bigs coming out of college, and with the above referenced shortcomings to their games.

BUT with more versatility and offensive polish. And better defensive traits. Although Hickson had very solid defensive capabilities due to his athleticism, physicality and size/ length (similar attributes to Fleming). But the edge goes to Fleming due to his defensive IQ, commitment and motor.

Lastly, this link offers good comparison coming out of college to reflect on some of their base similarities:

https://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=rasheer-fleming--jj-hickson

When 12/10 become fringe all star. He played his role well next to Lebron and that's about the extent of it.

Well, for starters man, that was playing for the Blazers, and obviously not playing off of Lebron at all. And if looking at that year (era of basketball), if not having to compete against superstars in their prime such as Anthony Davis, Dwight Howard, Kevin Durant, Blake Griffin, and Tim Duncan, even LaMarcus Aldridge too etc.

He'd be hard pressed to be a fan/ popularity selection to even make a reserve selection under those conditions due to his limited offensive skillset.

This us why I Specifically said " fringe" as in not being favored in that grouping or outside of it, or an extreme, radical or outlier consideration for the grouping ( contextually).

AI Overview

+8

Based on his stats, J.J. Hickson's 2012-2013 season with the Portland Trail Blazers was arguably his best statistically, but it wasn't quite at an All-Star level

. While he did rank highly in some categories, the overall production didn't place him among the players typically considered for an All-Star selection in a competitive Western Conference. 

In conclusion, J.J. Hickson had a solid 2012-2013 season, particularly as a rebounder. However, to be considered a legitimate All-Star contender in the NBA, especially in the Western Conference that season, a player typically needs a more well-rounded statistical profile, including higher scoring output, better playmaking, or more defensive impact. 


J.J. Hickson's rebounding numbers were among the league leaders that season, placing him 7th overall with 10.3 rebounds per game. He also ranked 10th among centers in ESPN's Hollinger "Value Added" statistic. However, his scoring, assists, and overall impact weren't typically at the level expected for an All-Star selection. While a breakout season for Hickson, it wasn't enough to earn him an All-Star nod. 

Overall, Hickson was an ( at times) high level rotation frontcourt big that was percieved to have a very high ceiling trajectory due to his size profile, wingspan, athletic talent, physical playstyle promoting potential dominance in the frontcourt, and a basic faceup game and defensive potential again due to his athletic profile and willing physicality.

He didn't pan out due to lack of motor and engagement defensively. But the comparison that I've made between the two players and their hyped trajectory (upon entering the league) is wholly accurate based upon the consensus opinions of their physical and athletic profiles, rebounding strengths, scoring around the rim, and their mobility (potential for development).

These similarities in relation to those contextual factors, and how they could translate into the league. And of course, Fleming having a distinct advantage in being significantly more polished offensively, but also operating contextually in a completely different era of basketball.

But equitably being unproven with only a theoretical ceiling this early with his nba career not even having started yet!

The only time he was viewed as having a high ceiling trajactory was pre-draft and maybe the first couple of seasons at most. He was a solid NBA starter, good fit next to Bron and that's about it.

You also can't be a fringe all-star if you don't even get votes. I looked at vote getters between 2009 and 2015 and he was not on a single list.

[Ghost of Kleine]

When 12/10 become fringe all star. He played his role well next to Lebron and that's about the extent of it.

Well, for starters man, that was playing for the Blazers, and obviously not playing off of Lebron at all. And if looking at that year (era of basketball), if not having to compete against superstars in their prime such as Anthony Davis, Dwight Howard, Kevin Durant, Blake Griffin, and Tim Duncan, even LaMarcus Aldridge too etc.

He'd be hard pressed to be a fan/ popularity selection to even make a reserve selection under those conditions due to his limited offensive skillset.

This us why I Specifically said " fringe" as in not being favored in that grouping or outside of it, or an extreme, radical or outlier consideration for the grouping ( contextually).

AI Overview

+8

Based on his stats, J.J. Hickson's 2012-2013 season with the Portland Trail Blazers was arguably his best statistically, but it wasn't quite at an All-Star level

. While he did rank highly in some categories, the overall production didn't place him among the players typically considered for an All-Star selection in a competitive Western Conference. 

In conclusion, J.J. Hickson had a solid 2012-2013 season, particularly as a rebounder. However, to be considered a legitimate All-Star contender in the NBA, especially in the Western Conference that season, a player typically needs a more well-rounded statistical profile, including higher scoring output, better playmaking, or more defensive impact. 


J.J. Hickson's rebounding numbers were among the league leaders that season, placing him 7th overall with 10.3 rebounds per game. He also ranked 10th among centers in ESPN's Hollinger "Value Added" statistic. However, his scoring, assists, and overall impact weren't typically at the level expected for an All-Star selection. While a breakout season for Hickson, it wasn't enough to earn him an All-Star nod. 

Overall, Hickson was an ( at times) high level rotation frontcourt big that was percieved to have a very high ceiling trajectory due to his size profile, wingspan, athletic talent, physical playstyle promoting potential dominance in the frontcourt, and a basic faceup game and defensive potential again due to his athletic profile and willing physicality.

He didn't pan out due to lack of motor and engagement defensively. But the comparison that I've made between the two players and their hyped trajectory (upon entering the league) is wholly accurate based upon the consensus opinions of their physical and athletic profiles, rebounding strengths, scoring around the rim, and their mobility (potential for development).

These similarities in relation to those contextual factors, and how they could translate into the league. And of course, Fleming having a distinct advantage in being significantly more polished offensively, but also operating contextually in a completely different era of basketball.

But equitably being unproven with only a theoretical ceiling this early with his nba career not even having started yet!

The only time he was viewed as having a high ceiling trajactory was pre-draft and maybe the first couple of seasons at most. He was a solid NBA starter, good fit next to Bron and that's about it.

You also can't be a fringe all-star if you don't even get votes. I looked at vote getters between 2009 and 2015 and he was not on a single list.

That's fine for the comparison then with both being hyped on athletic potential, and physical factors coming out of college too. So the comparison is equitable for both players' situations, as Fleming is still at best a theoretical talent that's unproven in the league.

And yes, you're right that Hickson was a good fit next to Lebron, but his best statistical season putting up 12/ 10 on 56% FG was again after Lebron, when he played for the Blazers. So by that logic, if it's agreeable that he was a solid NBA starter (next to Lebron).

But then after Lebron left and he later played for another team and had his best statistical season, then the logic dictates verifiable improvement ( even if only moderate) beyond or above that initially agreed upon threshold of a solid NBA starter (whilst playing with Lebron).

So what would the next tier of improvement be deemed above that of a solid starter then?? Again, even if only moderately better?? ................ a high level starter (at times) or possibly a hypothetical fringe (by definition) all star level talent (for that era) IF NOT FOR the SUPERSTAR OVERSATURATION at the 4 and 5 positions during the year, in which he might have otherwise secured a reserve selection bid??

Also, it's widely known and understood that the allstar selections are heavily impacted by popularity votes and large market viability too. So Hickson not making any of those lists isn't really saying that much beyond the obvious that big name superstars with more clout and media marketability are given preferential favor in these selections.

Overall, the all star selections are highly subjective and not always an accurate portrayal of a player's legitimate established value more than a market based popularity selection.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Just take the L and move on

There's no " L" to be taken here man in a subjective opinion based back n forth. My points for comparison were simple and easy to understand. And I even acknowledged their differences in equity.

If others refuse to acknowledge the points I've made, that's on them. But it doesn't change the comparison being valid.

[Mr Puddles]

I didn't know much about Rasheer Fleming, so I decided to flock to the Suns board on realgm and find the dedicated thread created for him. After spending time going through this page, I can now confidently say that I still don't know much about Rasheer Fleming.