Kuminga to SAC, is there a middle ground?

[SkyHook]

I expect that this is mostly bluster at this point, but this would certainly be the funniest conclusion to his RFA summer. People choose/vote against their best interest all the time.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/281649/Jonathan-Kuminga-Prefers-$79M-Qualifying-Offer-Over-Warriors-Current-Terms

[parsnips33]

We could have traded this dude for Alex Caruso a year ago

[LightTheBeam]

Ive been saying the same thing for 2 weeks lol.

QO is a real option vs that 1+1 warriors are offering where he waives his ntc. Warriors asking for all the control.

I still expect both to slightly cave. Warriors give him the player option while he waives his ntc.

At this point if im GS id rather just let him walk entirely. They dont want to get hard capped but bringing him back is going to fracture that locker room. Draymond going to punch him first day of training camp.

Yeah I feel like it's either going to end up being a 1 + PO or a straight 2 year deal where JK waives his implied NTC and they have a handshake agreement to let him seek a trade at the deadline.

I also wonder if the Kings/Warriors could have a december 15th handshake deal in place. Rare but it would make a lot more sense than the deal right now. Maybe Kuminga doesn't trust the Warriors which is why he wants the NTC.

But from the rumors initially it sounded like Monk + 1st (lotto protected, becomes Minnesota 1st) was close, but Warriors didn't want to move Moody/Buddy. They could definitely do that deal mid-season and allow the Warriors to sign everyone and not get hardcapped.

[LightTheBeam]

Ive been saying the same thing for 2 weeks lol.

QO is a real option vs that 1+1 warriors are offering where he waives his ntc. Warriors asking for all the control.

I still expect both to slightly cave. Warriors give him the player option while he waives his ntc.

At this point if im GS id rather just let him walk entirely. They dont want to get hard capped but bringing him back is going to fracture that locker room. Draymond going to punch him first day of training camp.

Yeah I feel like it's either going to end up being a 1 + PO or a straight 2 year deal where JK waives his implied NTC and they have a handshake agreement to let him seek a trade at the deadline.

Keep in mind that he has publicly stated that he does NOT want to be traded mid year but rather wants it done preseason so he does not have to learn a new system mid season.

Ya but we also need to keep in mind he doesn't control all the leverage. He can sign the QO (and I do think this is more on the table than most Warriors fans want to admit), but that still puts him in GS all season and makes it far less likely he gets traded as he won't have value on the QO. No other team has cap space, and the 2 do that do, don't want him. There's going to be some compromise, or more than likely Kuminga is going to spend a lot of time on the bench in GS.

[xdrta+]

TBH I have no idea about the implied NTC. Sometimes I feel like the more I learn about the new CBA the less I know

There's always a handful of players with an implied NTC every year. Re-signing on a 1 yr or 1+1 gives the player trade veto power. Signing a QO or an offer sheet that is matched does the same for 1 year. In Kuminga's case, the implied no-trade clause only applies if the second year is actually a player or team option. A deal that features a non-guaranteed/partially guaranteed second year wouldn't include any NTC.

Got it, so not just Kuminga but any player who re-signs with their current team on a 1 year deal (or a 1 + option) gets an implied NTC?

Yep. A new wrinkle in the current CBA is that a player can waive the NTC clause when signing the contract. (What the Warriors are asking JK to do.) I believe D'Angelo Russell was the first to do so when he re-signed with the Lakers on a 1+1 deal in 2023, soon after the new CBA went into effect.

[ChuckDurn]

There's always a handful of players with an implied NTC every year. Re-signing on a 1 yr or 1+1 gives the player trade veto power. Signing a QO or an offer sheet that is matched does the same for 1 year. In Kuminga's case, the implied no-trade clause only applies if the second year is actually a player or team option. A deal that features a non-guaranteed/partially guaranteed second year wouldn't include any NTC.

Got it, so not just Kuminga but any player who re-signs with their current team on a 1 year deal (or a 1 + option) gets an implied NTC?

Yep. A new wrinkle in the current CBA is that a player can waive the NTC clause when signing the contract. (What the Warriors are asking JK to do.) I believe D'Angelo Russell was the first to do so when he re-signed with the Lakers on a 1+1 deal in 2023, soon after the new CBA went into effect.

I saw something a couple of weeks ago, when this came up, that noted that while Russell was the first to waive the NTC, there have been quite a few who have done so since then. However, they were virtually all small contracts, guys who were making much less than even the MLE, and as such were probably just more worried about getting a contract than anything else. Kuminga’s would definitely be amongst the biggest that waived the NTC this way, should it go down that path.

[raferfenix]

So…if the Kings don’t get Kuminga…what do they do with all those guards?

[NW]

So…if the Kings don’t get Kuminga…what do they do with all those guards?

Add Russ Westbrook

[Godaddycurse]

So…if the Kings don’t get Kuminga…what do they do with all those guards?

i heard kuzma is available

[jbk1234]

Yeah I feel like it's either going to end up being a 1 + PO or a straight 2 year deal where JK waives his implied NTC and they have a handshake agreement to let him seek a trade at the deadline.

Keep in mind that he has publicly stated that he does NOT want to be traded mid year but rather wants it done preseason so he does not have to learn a new system mid season.

Ya but we also need to keep in mind he doesn't control all the leverage. He can sign the QO (and I do think this is more on the table than most Warriors fans want to admit), but that still puts him in GS all season and makes it far less likely he gets traded as he won't have value on the QO. No other team has cap space, and the 2 do that do, don't want him. There's going to be some compromise, or more than likely Kuminga is going to spend a lot of time on the bench in GS.

He'd still have rental value to a playoff team in need of a sixth man. That said, if there's a protected 1st on the table, the Warriors need to take it.

[Nate the Great]

Keep in mind that he has publicly stated that he does NOT want to be traded mid year but rather wants it done preseason so he does not have to learn a new system mid season.

Ya but we also need to keep in mind he doesn't control all the leverage. He can sign the QO (and I do think this is more on the table than most Warriors fans want to admit), but that still puts him in GS all season and makes it far less likely he gets traded as he won't have value on the QO. No other team has cap space, and the 2 do that do, don't want him. There's going to be some compromise, or more than likely Kuminga is going to spend a lot of time on the bench in GS.

He'd still have rental value to a playoff team in need of a sixth man. That said, if there's a protected 1st on the table, the Warriors need to take it.

A protected first five years from now has no real value.

[jbk1234]

Ya but we also need to keep in mind he doesn't control all the leverage. He can sign the QO (and I do think this is more on the table than most Warriors fans want to admit), but that still puts him in GS all season and makes it far less likely he gets traded as he won't have value on the QO. No other team has cap space, and the 2 do that do, don't want him. There's going to be some compromise, or more than likely Kuminga is going to spend a lot of time on the bench in GS.

He'd still have rental value to a playoff team in need of a sixth man. That said, if there's a protected 1st on the table, the Warriors need to take it.

A protected first five years from now has no real value.

You'd rather be owed one than be the team owing it. It's currency for future trades.

[Nate the Great]

He'd still have rental value to a playoff team in need of a sixth man. That said, if there's a protected 1st on the table, the Warriors need to take it.

A protected first five years from now has no real value.

You'd rather be owed one than be the team owing it. It's currency for future trades.

Not really, because five years from now, I probably won’t be GM. Trading a player the owner loves for a mediocre return isn’t good for one’s career aspirations.

The pick Kings fans keep talking about is their pick in 2030, lottery protected, otherwise, the worst of their pick and the Spurs pick in 2031. Given the direction both teams are going, that probably means a very late first rounder six years from now. The two second rounders proposed before was actually a better return, and that wasn’t exciting either.

[giberish]

A protected first five years from now has no real value.

You'd rather be owed one than be the team owing it. It's currency for future trades.

Not really, because five years from now, I probably won’t be GM. Trading a player the owner loves for a mediocre return isn’t good for one’s career aspirations.

The pick Kings fans keep talking about is their pick in 2030, lottery protected, otherwise, the worst of their pick and the Spurs pick in 2031. Given the direction both teams are going, that probably means a very late first rounder six years from now. The two second rounders proposed before was actually a better return return, and that wasn’t exciting either.

It also matters that GS is a win-now team with a very short timetable. Making the team worse next season in exchange for a minor long-term asset is a terrible idea for them - when for a team in a different situation it would be just fine.

[jscott]

Ya but we also need to keep in mind he doesn't control all the leverage. He can sign the QO (and I do think this is more on the table than most Warriors fans want to admit), but that still puts him in GS all season and makes it far less likely he gets traded as he won't have value on the QO. No other team has cap space, and the 2 do that do, don't want him. There's going to be some compromise, or more than likely Kuminga is going to spend a lot of time on the bench in GS.

He'd still have rental value to a playoff team in need of a sixth man. That said, if there's a protected 1st on the table, the Warriors need to take it.

A protected first five years from now has no real value.

Neither does Kuminga on a market value contract.

[jscott]

You'd rather be owed one than be the team owing it. It's currency for future trades.

Not really, because five years from now, I probably won’t be GM. Trading a player the owner loves for a mediocre return isn’t good for one’s career aspirations.

The pick Kings fans keep talking about is their pick in 2030, lottery protected, otherwise, the worst of their pick and the Spurs pick in 2031. Given the direction both teams are going, that probably means a very late first rounder six years from now. The two second rounders proposed before was actually a better return return, and that wasn’t exciting either.

It also matters that GS is a win-now team with a very short timetable. Making the team worse next season in exchange for a minor long-term asset is a terrible idea for them - when for a team in a different situation it would be just fine.

And you expect Kuminga to play a part in this window?

[Nate the Great]

He'd still have rental value to a playoff team in need of a sixth man. That said, if there's a protected 1st on the table, the Warriors need to take it.

A protected first five years from now has no real value.

Neither does Kuminga on a market value contract.

Fine, then the Warriors will keep him. These trade offers aren’t coming from the Warriors.

[jscott]

A protected first five years from now has no real value.

Neither does Kuminga on a market value contract.

Fine, then the Warriors will keep him. These trade offers aren’t coming from the Warriors.

Cool. I’m happy with that as an outcome providing both parties can come to an agreement on a contract. I’d much rather have the Warriors tie up ~25m (x3) in Kuminga and shoot themselves in the foot for the next few years.

[Texas Chuck]

We can hold the position that GSW should hold on to an unhappy Kuminga that their coach doesn't want to play over taking a protected first that doesn't convey for several years.

We can't state that pick holds no value though. Of course if we can assign an asset no value it allows us to justify our position that is getting harder to justify. Same with the poster who is aware his team might give said first for the right to give Kuminga way more gtd money than any other team is willing to do so he's writing narratives about a multiyear deal starting upwards of $22M being his "real value".

Not sure why we do this? I mean if GSW really loved this guy as much as you are selling, they'd simply meet his contract demands. So that narrative feels flimsy at best. And I find it hard to believe anyone earnestly thinks Kuminga is worth more than a future protected first. So not sure the narrative of bemoaning the return holds much value either.

But maybe the governor really loves the player but is willing to let the FO overrule him. And maybe there are other bidders we just haven't heard about willing to give up a better asset for the right to meet his contract demands. But even if true, a first round pick still holds value even if its not the idealized return you want.

[jbk1234]

A protected first five years from now has no real value.

You'd rather be owed one than be the team owing it. It's currency for future trades.

Not really, because five years from now, I probably won’t be GM. Trading a player the owner loves for a mediocre return isn’t good for one’s career aspirations.

The pick Kings fans keep talking about is their pick in 2030, lottery protected, otherwise, the worst of their pick and the Spurs pick in 2031. Given the direction both teams are going, that probably means a very late first rounder six years from now. The two second rounders proposed before was actually a better return, and that wasn’t exciting either.

It's still an asset that can be flipped at any time, and unless it's draft day and the two seconds are top 40, they're not worth more than a lotto protected first.

I don't really care what the Warriors do here, but there are only worse alternatives if he ends up signing the Q.O.