Squared2020's growing 1985-1986 RAPM sample isn't kind to Bird's defense.
Care to explain why? Here's why I ask.
In 1985-86 Boston as a team was 2nd best in the league in defensive efficiency (101.6 pts/100poss allowed). Only Milwaukee was better (101.1 pts/100poss allowed). They allowed
the lowest opponent 2pt FG% by any team in the league at just 46.9% (96% of their opponent's FGAs were 2pt attempts). They were also 1st in the league in highest defensive rebounding percentage (71.7%).
Well, gee, guess who lead that team in defensive rebounds? Bird, with over 1/5 of the team's total defensive rebounds.
Who lead that team in steals? Bird, with over 1/4 of the team's total steals.
Danny Ainge, Jerry Sichting, Scott Wedman, Rick Carlisle, and Sam Vincent combined to play 1/3 of the team's total minutes played. I don't think anyone considered any of these five to be very good to excellent defenders.
If Bird wasn't a very good to excellent defender, adding his minutes to the five above amounts to 1/2 the team's total minutes played. And you are
not 2nd best in the league as a team in defense if half of your team is playing league average defense or worse. Because that would mean the other half of your team would have to be far far better on defense than the best defensive team in the league such that your team's overall defense was 2nd best in the league. Not happening.
So much for RAPM defense as any kind of advanced analytic.
He's not an elite positional defender though
The 3 years Bird was named to the all-defensive team only four other forwards were named - Lonnie Shelton, Bobby Jones, Dan Roundfield, and Kevin McHale, and only two others were named each of the 3 seasons like Bird, Jones and Roundfield.
So were any of these other forwards elite positional defenders? If so which ones? Or is it just Bird that was not an elite positional defender?
he had plenty of limitations preventing him from being elite defender.
Is that a fact.
Care to name these "plenty" of limitations? This should be interesting.
Bird is a defensive genius, just like he was on offense. Whenever I watch a Bird game he just keeps showing up in the right place at the right time.
Very astute, and I think you will find that if you interview other players from that era that played against Bird that is exactly what they'd tell you.
but this goes a bit too far here.
On the contrary, a perfection description of prime Bird's defense.
All-defensive teams don't matter.
Voted by NBA head coaches. I trust their opinions as to who the best defenders were far more than second guessers 4 decades after the fact.
And the minutes he played were mostly with McHale and Parish.
Sorry dude, but the years Bird was named all-defense the starting Celtics frontcourt was C Parish, PF Bird, and SF Maxwell. These 3 seasons McHale started just 56/246 games. McHale played 29 min/g mostly off the bench.
He had an excellent defensive supporting cast
His all-defensive years? Parish, McHale, M.L. Carr, Buckner, and who else was excellent on defense (D.J. played in just 1983-84) those 3 seasons?
and was never top 2 defensively on his own team.
Well, the NBA head coaches of that time thought differently than you. The only other Celtics named to an all-defense team those 3 years were once each by McHale and Dennis Johnson. You can quibble with them all you want.
KG is a top 3-4 defender of all-time.
Chamberlain
Russell
Jabbar
B.Wallace
Mutombo
Olajuwon
D.Robinson
Gobert
Eaton
Dw.Howard
That's 10 right there better.
Garnett is clearly one of the greatest defensive forwards all time. Not top 3-4 among all players.
I don't care about team's defensive stats... That's why team numbers are next to nothing useful
Just about says it all right there.
This is why you evaluate the player, and not look at team's strength to find their value
You do both.
DRAPM is a better way to evaluate defense
Should have guessed it. Another plus/minus acolyte.
Magic better defender than Jordan? Kukoc better defender than Rodman? Keep those coming.
