Image ImageImage Image

Bears 12.0

Moderators: HomoSapien, AshyLarrysDiaper, coldfish, Payt10, Ice Man, dougthonus, Michael Jackson, Tommy Udo 6 , kulaz3000, fleet, DASMACKDOWN, GimmeDat, RedBulls23

User avatar
Susan
RealGM
Posts: 21,481
And1: 7,869
Joined: Jan 25, 2005
Location: jackfinn & Scott May appreciation society
     

Re: Bears 12.0 

Post#821 » by Susan » Thu Aug 14, 2025 12:22 pm

dougthonus wrote:
fleet wrote:Certain things like getting sacked a lot, pre snap reads and post snap processing time, those tend to be features difficult to discard. Ben will need to coach around. Give Caleb less decisions to make on his drops than he had last season. Less field to scan, because he’s going to get frozen. My prediction months ago was that by and large Caleb would be pretty similar this year to what we have seen from him to this point. That was before Ben Johnson was hired though. See what he can do. Things like deep ball accuracy should be easier to work on. In between broken plays, a strong play action/run game, getting Caleb to take check downs and to be more accurate on deep balls will help a lot. I can’t believe we are having this stuff on our menu again.


FWIW, these are the same types of things Bears fans have lambasted past coaching staffs for doing for both Caleb and Fields in the past. I don't know what the right answer is to these things, but Bears fans have historically always been upset by not giving the QB a chance when you try to simplify things for them. Not that we should care what Bears fans think vs what generate the best results. Fans are rarely in position to fully understand what that is (I'm sure not anyway).


Bears fans at this point should fully understand that drafting a QB to a lame duck head coach and then asking them to learn a completely different system in year two is a recipe for disaster.

This is literally the third time that you've had a second year QB being asked to have to completely redo his fundamentals and on top of that learn a complete new system.

Bears fans aren't a bunch of damn morons without an ounce of historical context - we've seen this song and dance multiple times now and the lack of continuity has been a major factor in the slow development of their QBs since 2018. You can look around the NFL and point to the coaching staff disfunction of other young QBs (Darnold, Baker Mayfield, Bryce Young, Trevor Lawrence, even Mac Jones had his development stifled by switching OCs in year 2) and see that the Bears "plan" since 2018 is clearly not the ideal plan to develop a QB.
fleet
Senior Mod - Bulls
Senior Mod - Bulls
Posts: 69,637
And1: 37,030
Joined: Dec 23, 2002
 

Re: Bears 12.0 

Post#822 » by fleet » Thu Aug 14, 2025 1:30 pm

Susan wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
fleet wrote:Certain things like getting sacked a lot, pre snap reads and post snap processing time, those tend to be features difficult to discard. Ben will need to coach around. Give Caleb less decisions to make on his drops than he had last season. Less field to scan, because he’s going to get frozen. My prediction months ago was that by and large Caleb would be pretty similar this year to what we have seen from him to this point. That was before Ben Johnson was hired though. See what he can do. Things like deep ball accuracy should be easier to work on. In between broken plays, a strong play action/run game, getting Caleb to take check downs and to be more accurate on deep balls will help a lot. I can’t believe we are having this stuff on our menu again.


FWIW, these are the same types of things Bears fans have lambasted past coaching staffs for doing for both Caleb and Fields in the past. I don't know what the right answer is to these things, but Bears fans have historically always been upset by not giving the QB a chance when you try to simplify things for them. Not that we should care what Bears fans think vs what generate the best results. Fans are rarely in position to fully understand what that is (I'm sure not anyway).


Bears fans at this point should fully understand that drafting a QB to a lame duck head coach and then asking them to learn a completely different system in year two is a recipe for disaster.

This is literally the third time that you've had a second year QB being asked to have to completely redo his fundamentals and on top of that learn a complete new system.

Bears fans aren't a bunch of damn morons without an ounce of historical context - we've seen this song and dance multiple times now and the lack of continuity has been a major factor in the slow development of their QBs since 2018. You can look around the NFL and point to the coaching staff disfunction of other young QBs (Darnold, Baker Mayfield, Bryce Young, Trevor Lawrence, even Mac Jones had his development stifled by switching OCs in year 2) and see that the Bears "plan" since 2018 is clearly not the ideal plan to develop a QB.



Not only all that….Still waiting for this franchise to hire a new GM to pick a new quarterback. If Caleb doesn’t work out, would they actually do the same they always do, which is to let GMs that already failed a quarterback decision or two to get yet another chance to fail? I know the answer already.
jnrjr79
Head Coach
Posts: 6,353
And1: 3,705
Joined: May 27, 2003
Location: Chicago

Re: Bears 12.0 

Post#823 » by jnrjr79 » Thu Aug 14, 2025 2:07 pm

fleet wrote:
Susan wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
FWIW, these are the same types of things Bears fans have lambasted past coaching staffs for doing for both Caleb and Fields in the past. I don't know what the right answer is to these things, but Bears fans have historically always been upset by not giving the QB a chance when you try to simplify things for them. Not that we should care what Bears fans think vs what generate the best results. Fans are rarely in position to fully understand what that is (I'm sure not anyway).


Bears fans at this point should fully understand that drafting a QB to a lame duck head coach and then asking them to learn a completely different system in year two is a recipe for disaster.

This is literally the third time that you've had a second year QB being asked to have to completely redo his fundamentals and on top of that learn a complete new system.

Bears fans aren't a bunch of damn morons without an ounce of historical context - we've seen this song and dance multiple times now and the lack of continuity has been a major factor in the slow development of their QBs since 2018. You can look around the NFL and point to the coaching staff disfunction of other young QBs (Darnold, Baker Mayfield, Bryce Young, Trevor Lawrence, even Mac Jones had his development stifled by switching OCs in year 2) and see that the Bears "plan" since 2018 is clearly not the ideal plan to develop a QB.



Not only all that….Still waiting for this franchise to hire a new GM to pick a new quarterback. If Caleb doesn’t work out, would they actually do the same they always do, which is to let GMs that already failed a quarterback decision or two to get yet another chance to fail? I know the answer already.


Given the Poles and Johnson contracts run 5 more years, if Caleb doesn't work out, it seems virtually certain that this regime would be given a chance to give Johnson his "guy."
User avatar
Susan
RealGM
Posts: 21,481
And1: 7,869
Joined: Jan 25, 2005
Location: jackfinn & Scott May appreciation society
     

Re: Bears 12.0 

Post#824 » by Susan » Thu Aug 14, 2025 2:29 pm

fleet wrote:
Susan wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
FWIW, these are the same types of things Bears fans have lambasted past coaching staffs for doing for both Caleb and Fields in the past. I don't know what the right answer is to these things, but Bears fans have historically always been upset by not giving the QB a chance when you try to simplify things for them. Not that we should care what Bears fans think vs what generate the best results. Fans are rarely in position to fully understand what that is (I'm sure not anyway).


Bears fans at this point should fully understand that drafting a QB to a lame duck head coach and then asking them to learn a completely different system in year two is a recipe for disaster.

This is literally the third time that you've had a second year QB being asked to have to completely redo his fundamentals and on top of that learn a complete new system.

Bears fans aren't a bunch of damn morons without an ounce of historical context - we've seen this song and dance multiple times now and the lack of continuity has been a major factor in the slow development of their QBs since 2018. You can look around the NFL and point to the coaching staff disfunction of other young QBs (Darnold, Baker Mayfield, Bryce Young, Trevor Lawrence, even Mac Jones had his development stifled by switching OCs in year 2) and see that the Bears "plan" since 2018 is clearly not the ideal plan to develop a QB.



Not only all that….Still waiting for this franchise to hire a new GM to pick a new quarterback. If Caleb doesn’t work out, would they actually do the same they always do, which is to let GMs that already failed a quarterback decision or two to get yet another chance to fail? I know the answer already.


Poles has found value with ONE offensive player in his 4 seasons in Braxton Jones. If you want, I'll add Bagent to the that mix but that's iffy

His ability to evaluate the offensive side of the ball has been wildly bad. There's not been a single solid free agent who outperformed his contract in the first 3 years. Numerous complete whifs in the middle rounds (Velus, Roschon, Scott and Kiran are all unplayable, unproductive players) and there's been multiple players that were on the roster when he came here that have gone elsewhere and been better there than here (Monty, Mooney and you're about to add Fields to that group).
jnrjr79
Head Coach
Posts: 6,353
And1: 3,705
Joined: May 27, 2003
Location: Chicago

Re: Bears 12.0 

Post#825 » by jnrjr79 » Thu Aug 14, 2025 3:04 pm

Susan wrote:
fleet wrote:
Susan wrote:
Bears fans at this point should fully understand that drafting a QB to a lame duck head coach and then asking them to learn a completely different system in year two is a recipe for disaster.

This is literally the third time that you've had a second year QB being asked to have to completely redo his fundamentals and on top of that learn a complete new system.

Bears fans aren't a bunch of damn morons without an ounce of historical context - we've seen this song and dance multiple times now and the lack of continuity has been a major factor in the slow development of their QBs since 2018. You can look around the NFL and point to the coaching staff disfunction of other young QBs (Darnold, Baker Mayfield, Bryce Young, Trevor Lawrence, even Mac Jones had his development stifled by switching OCs in year 2) and see that the Bears "plan" since 2018 is clearly not the ideal plan to develop a QB.



Not only all that….Still waiting for this franchise to hire a new GM to pick a new quarterback. If Caleb doesn’t work out, would they actually do the same they always do, which is to let GMs that already failed a quarterback decision or two to get yet another chance to fail? I know the answer already.


Poles has found value with ONE offensive player in his 4 seasons in Braxton Jones. If you want, I'll add Bagent to the that mix but that's iffy

His ability to evaluate the offensive side of the ball has been wildly bad. There's not been a single solid free agent who outperformed his contract in the first 3 years. Numerous complete whifs in the middle rounds (Velus, Roschon, Scott and Kiran are all unplayable, unproductive players) and there's been multiple players that were on the roster when he came here that have gone elsewhere and been better there than here (Monty, Mooney and you're about to add Fields to that group).


This seems like an overstatement to me. Monty is not better in Detroit than he was here. Detroit is a better team, to be sure, but it's not like Monty was unproductive as a Bear. He's the same guy. Fields didn't pan out in Pittsburgh last year. If you think on his third team he's suddenly going to resurrect his career, well, I just disagree.

Odunze seems like he's going to hit. Kiran, IMO, is too early to tell, but last. year was not good. Roschon is not unplayable - I don't know where that is coming from - but he's also unremarkable. Velus and Scott are misses, to be sure.

From a draft perspective, it's not that Poles hasn't hit on offensive picks, he just hasn't made a lot of them. Only 8 of his 26 draft picks have been used on offensive players. They are:

Caleb
Odunze
Kiran
Wright
Velus
Jones
Kramer
Carter

Only two of those picks, relative to their draft position, can really be viewed as failures at this point. That doesn't seem to be an abnormal hit rate to me.

From a trade perspective, he's been a mixed bag. DJ Moore trade - good. Chase Claypool trade - bad. Keenan Allen trade - meh. Allen was productive and a good security blanket for Caleb last year, but you traded a pick for a guy you didn't end up wanting to re-sign.

In free agency, it's also a mixed record. I feel good about the moves Poles made to shore up the offensive line this past offseason, but obviously it's too early to tell. The UDFA signing of Bagent is an obvious hit. Nate Davis was a big miss. Lucas Patrick was a miss.

He's definitely not been amazing at identifying offensive talent, but not a total failure, either. You wonder these days if Ben Johnson will actually be the bigger offensive personnel voice (I assume he will be).
Dresden
RealGM
Posts: 13,957
And1: 6,543
Joined: Nov 02, 2017
       

Re: Bears 12.0 

Post#826 » by Dresden » Thu Aug 14, 2025 3:20 pm

jnrjr79 wrote:
Susan wrote:
fleet wrote:

Not only all that….Still waiting for this franchise to hire a new GM to pick a new quarterback. If Caleb doesn’t work out, would they actually do the same they always do, which is to let GMs that already failed a quarterback decision or two to get yet another chance to fail? I know the answer already.


Poles has found value with ONE offensive player in his 4 seasons in Braxton Jones. If you want, I'll add Bagent to the that mix but that's iffy

His ability to evaluate the offensive side of the ball has been wildly bad. There's not been a single solid free agent who outperformed his contract in the first 3 years. Numerous complete whifs in the middle rounds (Velus, Roschon, Scott and Kiran are all unplayable, unproductive players) and there's been multiple players that were on the roster when he came here that have gone elsewhere and been better there than here (Monty, Mooney and you're about to add Fields to that group).


This seems like an overstatement to me. Monty is not better in Detroit than he was here. Detroit is a better team, to be sure, but it's not like Monty was unproductive as a Bear. He's the same guy. Fields didn't pan out in Pittsburgh last year. If you think on his third team he's suddenly going to resurrect his career, well, I just disagree.

Odunze seems like he's going to hit. Kiran, IMO, is too early to tell, but last. year was not good. Roschon is not unplayable - I don't know where that is coming from - but he's also unremarkable. Velus and Scott are misses, to be sure.

From a draft perspective, it's not that Poles hasn't hit on offensive picks, he just hasn't made a lot of them. Only 8 of his 26 draft picks have been used on offensive players. They are:

Caleb
Odunze
Kiran
Wright
Velus
Jones
Kramer
Carter

Only two of those picks, relative to their draft position, can really be viewed as failures at this point. That doesn't seem to be an abnormal hit rate to me.

From a trade perspective, he's been a mixed bag. DJ Moore trade - good. Chase Claypool trade - bad. Keenan Allen trade - meh. Allen was productive and a good security blanket for Caleb last year, but you traded a pick for a guy you didn't end up wanting to re-sign.

In free agency, it's also a mixed record. I feel good about the moves Poles made to shore up the offensive line this past offseason, but obviously it's too early to tell. The UDFA signing of Bagent is an obvious hit. Nate Davis was a big miss. Lucas Patrick was a miss.

He's definitely not been amazing at identifying offensive talent, but not a total failure, either. You wonder these days if Ben Johnson will actually be the bigger offensive personnel voice (I assume he will be).


I think that's a more objective and balanced look at what Poles has done. He's had misses, but so has every GM. I think it's the first 2-3 rounds of the draft that are the most important, and he's had a decent record there, adding players like Darnell Wright, Gordon, Brisker, Tyrique, Odunze. The jury is still out on Caleb, Loveland, and the 3 seconds he had this year. But assuming most of them work out, that is a pretty solid core. And the people that are so damning of Poles never seem to mention the single best thing he's done- turning Bryce Young into Caleb, DJ Moore, Wright, Stevenson, Burden and Taylor....oh, but that was just dumb luck.
GetBuLLish
General Manager
Posts: 9,027
And1: 2,621
Joined: Jan 14, 2009

Re: Bears 12.0 

Post#827 » by GetBuLLish » Thu Aug 14, 2025 3:25 pm

Not liking all the rumblings about having issues about both tackle spots, particularly left tackle.
jnrjr79
Head Coach
Posts: 6,353
And1: 3,705
Joined: May 27, 2003
Location: Chicago

Re: Bears 12.0 

Post#828 » by jnrjr79 » Thu Aug 14, 2025 3:29 pm

Dresden wrote:
jnrjr79 wrote:
Susan wrote:
Poles has found value with ONE offensive player in his 4 seasons in Braxton Jones. If you want, I'll add Bagent to the that mix but that's iffy

His ability to evaluate the offensive side of the ball has been wildly bad. There's not been a single solid free agent who outperformed his contract in the first 3 years. Numerous complete whifs in the middle rounds (Velus, Roschon, Scott and Kiran are all unplayable, unproductive players) and there's been multiple players that were on the roster when he came here that have gone elsewhere and been better there than here (Monty, Mooney and you're about to add Fields to that group).


This seems like an overstatement to me. Monty is not better in Detroit than he was here. Detroit is a better team, to be sure, but it's not like Monty was unproductive as a Bear. He's the same guy. Fields didn't pan out in Pittsburgh last year. If you think on his third team he's suddenly going to resurrect his career, well, I just disagree.

Odunze seems like he's going to hit. Kiran, IMO, is too early to tell, but last. year was not good. Roschon is not unplayable - I don't know where that is coming from - but he's also unremarkable. Velus and Scott are misses, to be sure.

From a draft perspective, it's not that Poles hasn't hit on offensive picks, he just hasn't made a lot of them. Only 8 of his 26 draft picks have been used on offensive players. They are:

Caleb
Odunze
Kiran
Wright
Velus
Jones
Kramer
Carter

Only two of those picks, relative to their draft position, can really be viewed as failures at this point. That doesn't seem to be an abnormal hit rate to me.

From a trade perspective, he's been a mixed bag. DJ Moore trade - good. Chase Claypool trade - bad. Keenan Allen trade - meh. Allen was productive and a good security blanket for Caleb last year, but you traded a pick for a guy you didn't end up wanting to re-sign.

In free agency, it's also a mixed record. I feel good about the moves Poles made to shore up the offensive line this past offseason, but obviously it's too early to tell. The UDFA signing of Bagent is an obvious hit. Nate Davis was a big miss. Lucas Patrick was a miss.

He's definitely not been amazing at identifying offensive talent, but not a total failure, either. You wonder these days if Ben Johnson will actually be the bigger offensive personnel voice (I assume he will be).


I think that's a more objective and balanced look at what Poles has done. He's had misses, but so has every GM. I think it's the first 2-3 rounds of the draft that are the most important, and he's had a decent record there, adding players like Darnell Wright, Gordon, Brisker, Tyrique, Odunze. The jury is still out on Caleb, Loveland, and the 3 seconds he had this year. But assuming most of them work out, that is a pretty solid core. And the people that are so damning of Poles never seem to mention the single best thing he's done- turning Bryce Young into Caleb, DJ Moore, Wright, Stevenson, Burden and Taylor....oh, but that was just dumb luck.


Yeah, people love to say the Bryce Young trade was just luck, but that's ridiculous. The luck component was that the future first ended up being #1 - that's a better outcome than would have been predicted, but the rest of the haul was so great that the trade would have still been a coup even if the pick last year was #5 or whatever. Heck, given that some of the guys drafted after Caleb looked better than him last year, if Caleb doesn't pan out, it in some sense will have bad bad luck that the pick turned into #1.

I have not written off Caleb by any means, but it's funny to envision an alternate universe where they trade last year's #1 pick for an insane haul and then just use their own pick on JJ McCarthy or whoever. You could have really turned that Bryce Young trade into a mind-blowing number of assets. Obviously, if Caleb pans out, though, you don't worry about that.
fleet
Senior Mod - Bulls
Senior Mod - Bulls
Posts: 69,637
And1: 37,030
Joined: Dec 23, 2002
 

Re: Bears 12.0 

Post#829 » by fleet » Thu Aug 14, 2025 3:31 pm

GetBuLLish wrote:Not liking all the rumblings about having issues about both tackle spots, particularly left tackle.

The new o-line coach just called out both the left and right tackles, oye. I think they’re pushing all the buttons, and with that, there are also legitimate issues.
jnrjr79
Head Coach
Posts: 6,353
And1: 3,705
Joined: May 27, 2003
Location: Chicago

Re: Bears 12.0 

Post#830 » by jnrjr79 » Thu Aug 14, 2025 3:31 pm

GetBuLLish wrote:Not liking all the rumblings about having issues about both tackle spots, particularly left tackle.


I have not seen rumblings about Wright at RT. Have you?

EDIT: I see Fleet's post on this.
fleet
Senior Mod - Bulls
Senior Mod - Bulls
Posts: 69,637
And1: 37,030
Joined: Dec 23, 2002
 

Re: Bears 12.0 

Post#831 » by fleet » Thu Aug 14, 2025 3:34 pm

jnrjr79 wrote:
GetBuLLish wrote:Not liking all the rumblings about having issues about both tackle spots, particularly left tackle.


I have not seen rumblings about Wright at RT. Have you?

EDIT: I see Fleet's post on this.

I don’t know how to take this other than they don’t think he’s in great shape. He should play himself into shape as the year goes on, but that’s not what the team was asking for. It also could be motor questions, which would be worse.
Read on Twitter
User avatar
molepharmer
Head Coach
Posts: 6,757
And1: 1,262
Joined: Feb 27, 2002

Re: Bears 12.0 

Post#832 » by molepharmer » Thu Aug 14, 2025 4:31 pm

This time of year in camp, coaches are going to find issues of some sort with every player; unless they're a multi-year All Pro like Thuney. Coaches won't be satisfied until they see perfection (i.e. the current standard) . They don't want any player to become complacent right now.
TGibson (1/28/17); "..."a 4 or 5 on a scale of 1 to 10 for drama"...What's the worst? "...yelling matches with Thibs, everybody is just going crazy and I'm just sitting there...like, 'Don't call my name please..."
Chi town
RealGM
Posts: 29,078
And1: 8,954
Joined: Aug 10, 2004

Re: Bears 12.0 

Post#833 » by Chi town » Thu Aug 14, 2025 4:47 pm

fleet wrote:
GetBuLLish wrote:Not liking all the rumblings about having issues about both tackle spots, particularly left tackle.

The new o-line coach just called out both the left and right tackles, oye. I think they’re pushing all the buttons, and with that, there are also legitimate issues.


Think it’s more creating competition to see who rises and how they respond to the pressure. I like it too.
User avatar
nomorezorro
RealGM
Posts: 13,102
And1: 10,186
Joined: Jun 22, 2006
Location: bfk

Re: Bears 12.0 

Post#834 » by nomorezorro » Thu Aug 14, 2025 4:47 pm

benedet is getting snaps with the ones again today. this might be the weirdest training camp development i can remember? which is saying something

i guess we'll see tomorrow and sunday whether he's legit in the mix to start or if this is just Message Sending of some sort
WookieOnRitalin wrote:Game 1. It's where the series is truly 0-0.
User avatar
nomorezorro
RealGM
Posts: 13,102
And1: 10,186
Joined: Jun 22, 2006
Location: bfk

Re: Bears 12.0 

Post#835 » by nomorezorro » Thu Aug 14, 2025 5:51 pm

positive reports on caleb today had me thinking: it's kind of weird to me that there's so much panic around him this training camp, because based on what i've read...other than the pre-snap issues, after the first week, most days have ranged from "eh" to "good" for the offense?

and like, i can't really think of a football team that was derailed by pre-snap penalties, so i've never been particularly concerned about that being a huge issue that lingers into the season. it'll be mildly annoying if they don't have the operation down smoothly, but i can't imagine it being the gap between "offense looks good" and "offense looks troubling"

obviously the biggest wildcard is what happens when the QB can actually get hit and you start going from theoretical sacks/pressures to the real deal. but i dunno, my takeaway from the training camp updates has largely been "seems alright"
WookieOnRitalin wrote:Game 1. It's where the series is truly 0-0.
1985Bear
Junior
Posts: 341
And1: 269
Joined: Jun 10, 2021
       

Re: Bears 12.0 

Post#836 » by 1985Bear » Thu Aug 14, 2025 7:07 pm

Tea Leaves have Braxton Jones is your starter .

How good coaches get on players who are not playing at elite levels all the time:

1. Tell the player individually

Still not up to standard?:
2. Tell player in front of team

Still not up to standard?:
3. Tell the media about the players needed improvement.

Still not getting it? Theo Benedict, get in there, because he has done it the right way and earned at shot with the 1s. Likely Canadian eagle can’t block, Sweat and Grady but sends the right message.

Braxton starter:
Ozzy - swing tackle so need to get him reps on right side.
Kiran - Roushar likes him early in camp but hasn’t been healthy, so Braxton and his 40plus starts gets the nod.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
User avatar
molepharmer
Head Coach
Posts: 6,757
And1: 1,262
Joined: Feb 27, 2002

Re: Bears 12.0 

Post#837 » by molepharmer » Thu Aug 14, 2025 8:58 pm

nomorezorro wrote:positive reports on caleb today had me thinking: it's kind of weird to me that there's so much panic around him this training camp, because based on what i've read...other than the pre-snap issues, after the first week, most days have ranged from "eh" to "good" for the offense?

and like, i can't really think of a football team that was derailed by pre-snap penalties, so i've never been particularly concerned about that being a huge issue that lingers into the season. it'll be mildly annoying if they don't have the operation down smoothly, but i can't imagine it being the gap between "offense looks good" and "offense looks troubling"

obviously the biggest wildcard is what happens when the QB can actually get hit and you start going from theoretical sacks/pressures to the real deal. but i dunno, my takeaway from the training camp updates has largely been "seems alright"

If you listen to Jonah Jackson's presser from today, it should ease most peoples doubts...at least a little. Paraphasing...issues similar to when he was in Det, learning a new offense is tough, simple human error happens, etc Say's he's confident in Caleb and thinks he acts like veteran.
TGibson (1/28/17); "..."a 4 or 5 on a scale of 1 to 10 for drama"...What's the worst? "...yelling matches with Thibs, everybody is just going crazy and I'm just sitting there...like, 'Don't call my name please..."
User avatar
dougthonus
Senior Mod - Bulls
Senior Mod - Bulls
Posts: 58,410
And1: 18,615
Joined: Dec 22, 2004
Contact:
 

Re: Bears 12.0 

Post#838 » by dougthonus » Thu Aug 14, 2025 9:26 pm

Susan wrote:Bears fans at this point should fully understand that drafting a QB to a lame duck head coach and then asking them to learn a completely different system in year two is a recipe for disaster.

This is literally the third time that you've had a second year QB being asked to have to completely redo his fundamentals and on top of that learn a complete new system.

Bears fans aren't a bunch of damn morons without an ounce of historical context - we've seen this song and dance multiple times now and the lack of continuity has been a major factor in the slow development of their QBs since 2018. You can look around the NFL and point to the coaching staff disfunction of other young QBs (Darnold, Baker Mayfield, Bryce Young, Trevor Lawrence, even Mac Jones had his development stifled by switching OCs in year 2) and see that the Bears "plan" since 2018 is clearly not the ideal plan to develop a QB.


Not sure our methodology did those guys any favors, but the last two guys look like they simply aren't that good. I don't think they were a different coaching setup away from being successful, though that question is always a chicken or an egg thing. Lack of developing a QB is also a reason head coaches tend to get fired regardless of whether the issue is with the coach or the QB.
http://linktr.ee/bullsbeat - links to the bullsbeat podcast
@doug_thonus on twitter
Dresden
RealGM
Posts: 13,957
And1: 6,543
Joined: Nov 02, 2017
       

Re: Bears 12.0 

Post#839 » by Dresden » Thu Aug 14, 2025 9:32 pm

molepharmer wrote:This time of year in camp, coaches are going to find issues of some sort with every player; unless they're a multi-year All Pro like Thuney. Coaches won't be satisfied until they see perfection (i.e. the current standard) . They don't want any player to become complacent right now.


I think that's right. They're trying to push these guys to get the best out of them. And Wright is still a very young player, there are bound to be things he needs to work on. Doesn't mean the sky is falling.
Dresden
RealGM
Posts: 13,957
And1: 6,543
Joined: Nov 02, 2017
       

Re: Bears 12.0 

Post#840 » by Dresden » Thu Aug 14, 2025 9:40 pm

Susan wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
fleet wrote:Certain things like getting sacked a lot, pre snap reads and post snap processing time, those tend to be features difficult to discard. Ben will need to coach around. Give Caleb less decisions to make on his drops than he had last season. Less field to scan, because he’s going to get frozen. My prediction months ago was that by and large Caleb would be pretty similar this year to what we have seen from him to this point. That was before Ben Johnson was hired though. See what he can do. Things like deep ball accuracy should be easier to work on. In between broken plays, a strong play action/run game, getting Caleb to take check downs and to be more accurate on deep balls will help a lot. I can’t believe we are having this stuff on our menu again.


FWIW, these are the same types of things Bears fans have lambasted past coaching staffs for doing for both Caleb and Fields in the past. I don't know what the right answer is to these things, but Bears fans have historically always been upset by not giving the QB a chance when you try to simplify things for them. Not that we should care what Bears fans think vs what generate the best results. Fans are rarely in position to fully understand what that is (I'm sure not anyway).


Bears fans at this point should fully understand that drafting a QB to a lame duck head coach and then asking them to learn a completely different system in year two is a recipe for disaster.

This is literally the third time that you've had a second year QB being asked to have to completely redo his fundamentals and on top of that learn a complete new system.

Bears fans aren't a bunch of damn morons without an ounce of historical context - we've seen this song and dance multiple times now and the lack of continuity has been a major factor in the slow development of their QBs since 2018. You can look around the NFL and point to the coaching staff disfunction of other young QBs (Darnold, Baker Mayfield, Bryce Young, Trevor Lawrence, even Mac Jones had his development stifled by switching OCs in year 2) and see that the Bears "plan" since 2018 is clearly not the ideal plan to develop a QB.


By all accounts Tyson Bagent is having any trouble picking up the new system. And Drake Maye is in the same situation in NE, and reports of his play this summer have been pretty rosy.

There's always someone or some thing to blame when things don't work as planned.

If you look at it, it's pretty logical to think that your coach might be ok, he just needs a new QB. So get the new QB, and you can retain the coach. I would guess this happens fairly often- you don't get a new HC every time you switch QB's. Nor do you get a new GM every time you get a new HC.

Return to Chicago Bulls