Free Agency & Trades Thread 2 **NOW OPEN**

[mihaic]

In terms of the Trae discussion, they can’t take on Trae’s salary demands for a max contract, without moving Barnes or BI.

I think the consolidation play could be to target Markkanen. Gives them a #1 scoring option.

Could see Ingram to Cavs, Garland to Jazz and Markkanen to Raps, with additional contract filler to Jazz from the Raps, like Ochai and Mogbo at a minimum.

Why? If Markanen is 1st scoring option then RJ is too.

Just consolidate rj dick and iq into Trae and expiring. Then pay Trae with the money left from expiring, it should be enough.

[ForeverTFC]

They got those picks + Porzingis for Smart. Then they got a rich man's version of Smart in Jrue for those picks and 2 guys that can never stay healthy. My point remains

If you ignore the other pieces the Celtics gave up in that trade like Brogdon coming off of a 6th Man of the Year season or Robert Williams in the "Smart yo Jrue" timeline, sure.

I mentioned them as the "guys who couldnt stay healthy"

It was a masterclass of using your assets to increase the ceiling of your team dramatically. They didnt even have Porzingis healthy and beat down teams that year.

Either you judge the talent as it was during the time of the trade, or you fast forward to today.

At the time, Smart had a lot of value, a year removed from DPOY. Remember how everyone talked about the Celtics "traded their identity"? And they did so for a guy coming off his first somewhat healthy season looking for a fat extension and 2 picks from a team on the rise. R Will was also seen as a very important player in their lineup and the guy that made their defense work. And if you want to look at it today, the Celtics had to give up both Jrue and Porzingis for ~nothing. Neither had real value off the contracts they had to give to them. Though of course, they also have a Larry O'Brien to show for it.

It was a great trade for sure and Jrue was very important to their title run. But it's disingenuous imo to frame the trade as you are. The Celtics gave up real pieces to make those trades and still did well. Saying "he gave up nothing" doesn't give Stevens the credit he deserves for the risks he took. He is very much the opposite of Ainge in that way.

[Tor_Raps]

If you ignore the other pieces the Celtics gave up in that trade like Brogdon coming off of a 6th Man of the Year season or Robert Williams in the "Smart yo Jrue" timeline, sure.

I mentioned them as the "guys who couldnt stay healthy"

It was a masterclass of using your assets to increase the ceiling of your team dramatically. They didnt even have Porzingis healthy and beat down teams that year.

Either you judge the talent as it was during the time of the trade, or you fast forward to today.

At the time, Smart had a lot of value, a year removed from DPOY. Remember how everyone talked about the Celtics "traded their identity"? And they did so for a guy coming off his first somewhat healthy season looking for a fat extension and 2 picks from a team on the rise. R Will was also seen as a very important player in their lineup and the guy that made their defense work. And if you want to look at it today, the Celtics had to give up both Jrue and Porzingis for ~nothing. Neither had real value off the contracts they had to give to them. Though of course, they also have a Larry O'Brien to show for it.

It was a great trade for sure and Jrue was very important to their title run. But it's disingenuous imo to frame the trade as you are. The Celtics gave up real pieces to make those trades and still did well. Saying "he gave up nothing" doesn't give Stevens the credit he deserves for the risks he took. He is very much the opposite of Ainge in that way.

I agree that trading Smart was only helped with them landing Jrue. Without Jrue, they would have looked somewhat foolish but that was the benefit of landing 2 picks alongside trading Smart.

I am looking at their moves as a collective so ultimately it was Smart/Brogdan/Williams for Jrue/Porzingis, which every team would do 10 times out of 10.

[YogurtProducer]

In terms of the Trae discussion, they can’t take on Trae’s salary demands for a max contract, without moving Barnes or BI.

I think the consolidation play could be to target Markkanen. Gives them a #1 scoring option.

Could see Ingram to Cavs, Garland to Jazz and Markkanen to Raps, with additional contract filler to Jazz from the Raps, like Ochai and Mogbo at a minimum.

Why? If Markanen is 1st scoring option then RJ is too.

Just consolidate rj dick and iq into Trae and expiring. Then pay Trae with the money left from expiring, it should be enough.

Markannen has been much more efficient than RJ has been.

Lauri doesn't fit us at all though unless you are really blowing things up and planning to move Barnes to for a guard

[JB7]

In terms of the Trae discussion, they can’t take on Trae’s salary demands for a max contract, without moving Barnes or BI.

I think the consolidation play could be to target Markkanen. Gives them a #1 scoring option.

Could see Ingram to Cavs, Garland to Jazz and Markkanen to Raps, with additional contract filler to Jazz from the Raps, like Ochai and Mogbo at a minimum.

Why? If Markanen is 1st scoring option then RJ is too.

Just consolidate rj dick and iq into Trae and expiring. Then pay Trae with the money left from expiring, it should be enough.

Markannen has been much more efficient than RJ has been.

Lauri doesn't fit us at all though unless you are really blowing things up and planning to move Barnes to for a guard

Unless you see Barnes as the initiator of the offence, surrounded by 3 guys that can finish (Lauri, IQ & RJ).

I agree though with other posters comments, that Lauri cannot really be viewed as a #1 option, from an initiator perspective. But as you mentioned, he is a highly efficient scorer.

So with Barnes as the hub, and three players with the potential for high efficiency scoring (if RJ reverts to the role he had when he first joined the Raps, and focused on open 3's and drives to the basket), would that be enough to create a highly efficient offence?

And defensively, they would still have Barnes, CMB, Yak, JKW & Shead as the core defensive players, with the hope that RJ & IQ can become decent defenders.

My concern with the Trae idea being floated, while he is an offensive hub onto himself, is that the team would then have Barnes on a max deal, Trae looking for a max deal, and BI then probably requesting a max deal, after 2 seasons. I don't think teams can get away with so many max deals in the new apron era.

[ForeverTFC]

Any updates on Giddey, Kuminga, Thomas and Grimes? RFA sucks.

[causal_fan]

Any updates on Giddey, Kuminga, Thomas and Grimes? RFA sucks.

Why didn't the raptors deal with IQ RFA last year just as these teams are dealing with their RFA instead of just overpaying him - Even if IQ had taken a one year deal and become a FA this year, his market would have been poor with teams not having cap space and of course his injury plagued season - If the Raptors had good cap management they would have been under the tax and able to afford a more quality backup C - Whomever is in charge of cap management needs to go.

[Tofubeque]

Any updates on Giddey, Kuminga, Thomas and Grimes? RFA sucks.

Why didn't the raptors deal with IQ RFA last year just as these teams are dealing with their RFA instead of just overpaying him - Even if IQ had taken a one year deal and become a FA this year, his market would have been poor with teams not having cap space and of course his injury plagued season - If the Raptors had good cap management they would have been under the tax and able to afford a more quality backup C - Whomever is in charge of cap management needs to go.

That way Quickley could make the locker room toxic, refuse to sit since it’s a contract year and probably make our pick worse, leverage a no trade clause with his bird rights, then leave for nothing since QO signees never re-sign with that team.

The messiness GS and Chicago are going through isn’t something to aspire to, they’ve sat out free agency entirely because of their RFA’s cap holds. They should’ve found trades for Kuminga and Giddey sooner if they weren’t in their long-term plans.

[causal_fan]

Any updates on Giddey, Kuminga, Thomas and Grimes? RFA sucks.

Why didn't the raptors deal with IQ RFA last year just as these teams are dealing with their RFA instead of just overpaying him - Even if IQ had taken a one year deal and become a FA this year, his market would have been poor with teams not having cap space and of course his injury plagued season - If the Raptors had good cap management they would have been under the tax and able to afford a more quality backup C - Whomever is in charge of cap management needs to go.

That way Quickley could make the locker room toxic, refuse to sit since it’s a contract year and probably make our pick worse, leverage a no trade clause with his bird rights, then leave for nothing since QO signees never re-sign with that team.

The messiness GS and Chicago are going through isn’t something to aspire to, they’ve sat out free agency entirely because of their RFA’s cap holds. They should’ve found trades for Kuminga and Giddey sooner if they weren’t in their long-term plans.

Yep, it's better to overpay everybody and have a team with a happy locker room that can't contend - what was I thinking!

[Spida888]

Any updates on Giddey, Kuminga, Thomas and Grimes? RFA sucks.

Why didn't the raptors deal with IQ RFA last year just as these teams are dealing with their RFA instead of just overpaying him - Even if IQ had taken a one year deal and become a FA this year, his market would have been poor with teams not having cap space and of course his injury plagued season - If the Raptors had good cap management they would have been under the tax and able to afford a more quality backup C - Whomever is in charge of cap management needs to go.

Based on how Masai spoke to IQ after the trade, he seemed really high on him and probably thought either a team would offer him something more (which I doubt) or he didn't want to lowball him. I agree we could have done a better job. The silver lining is his contract is flat, so there's a chance he'll play up to his AAV in a couple of years.

As for Kuminga, last rumour I saw was SAC was offering Monk + 2030 protected FRP but GSW wants it unprotected, crazy.

[ForeverTFC]

Any updates on Giddey, Kuminga, Thomas and Grimes? RFA sucks.

Why didn't the raptors deal with IQ RFA last year just as these teams are dealing with their RFA instead of just overpaying him - Even if IQ had taken a one year deal and become a FA this year, his market would have been poor with teams not having cap space and of course his injury plagued season - If the Raptors had good cap management they would have been under the tax and able to afford a more quality backup C - Whomever is in charge of cap management needs to go.

1. Contract framework was discussed prior to the trade. Going against what you promised after is bad business
2. The RFA shift has hit the NBA this season with the new cap realities digested. Our approach to the IQ RFA was the norm when it happened.
3. Magic had cap space and interest. Warriors, Bulls, Nets, and Sixers have leverage because other than the Nets, no one has cap space this year and the Nets didn't want to use it. This was not the case last year

Context and nuance are important. With that said, what I thought was a fine contract for IQ is now definitely above market. Such is life when the market shifts how it prices talent.

[Los_29]

Why didn't the raptors deal with IQ RFA last year just as these teams are dealing with their RFA instead of just overpaying him - Even if IQ had taken a one year deal and become a FA this year, his market would have been poor with teams not having cap space and of course his injury plagued season - If the Raptors had good cap management they would have been under the tax and able to afford a more quality backup C - Whomever is in charge of cap management needs to go.

That way Quickley could make the locker room toxic, refuse to sit since it’s a contract year and probably make our pick worse, leverage a no trade clause with his bird rights, then leave for nothing since QO signees never re-sign with that team.

The messiness GS and Chicago are going through isn’t something to aspire to, they’ve sat out free agency entirely because of their RFA’s cap holds. They should’ve found trades for Kuminga and Giddey sooner if they weren’t in their long-term plans.

Yep, it's better to overpay everybody and have a team with a happy locker room that can't contend - what was I thinking!

IQ would’ve got that kind of money elsewhere. If he can give us 20/5/6 on good efficiency then he’s worth every penny.

Players were getting paid that year. It was a great time to be a free agent. Who would’ve thought a guy like OG would get paid 45 million a year? Or Suggs would get 30 million a year despite being like a 11ppg scorer?

At least IQs contract is fixed. He will take up a smaller percentage of our cap each year. And no one will be complaining about his contract if this team can make the playoffs next year.

[DreamTeam09]

Any updates on Giddey, Kuminga, Thomas and Grimes? RFA sucks.

Why didn't the raptors deal with IQ RFA last year just as these teams are dealing with their RFA instead of just overpaying him - Even if IQ had taken a one year deal and become a FA this year, his market would have been poor with teams not having cap space and of course his injury plagued season - If the Raptors had good cap management they would have been under the tax and able to afford a more quality backup C - Whomever is in charge of cap management needs to go.

1. Contract framework was discussed prior to the trade. Going against what you promised after is bad business
2. The RFA shift has hit the NBA this season with the new cap realities digested. Our approach to the IQ RFA was the norm when it happened.
3. Magic had cap space and interest. Warriors, Bulls, Nets, and Sixers have leverage because other than the Nets, no one has cap space this year and the Nets didn't want to use it. This was not the case last year

Context and nuance are important. With that said, what I thought was a fine contract for IQ is now definitely above market. Such is life when the market shifts how it prices talent.

Definitely would've been better for Orlando to pay quickly what he wanted last yr instead of paying 5 1st draft picks + pay Banes the same/similar salary. IQ & Suggs is just as good as Suggs + Bane imo. Even if you think Bane is better than IQ(a hill I wont die on) He's not 5 1st round picks better.

[ArthurVandelay]

Any updates on Giddey, Kuminga, Thomas and Grimes? RFA sucks.

Why didn't the raptors deal with IQ RFA last year just as these teams are dealing with their RFA instead of just overpaying him - Even if IQ had taken a one year deal and become a FA this year, his market would have been poor with teams not having cap space and of course his injury plagued season - If the Raptors had good cap management they would have been under the tax and able to afford a more quality backup C - Whomever is in charge of cap management needs to go.

Based on how Masai spoke to IQ after the trade, he seemed really high on him and probably thought either a team would offer him something more (which I doubt) or he didn't want to lowball him. I agree we could have done a better job. The silver lining is his contract is flat, so there's a chance he'll play up to his AAV in a couple of years.

As for Kuminga, last rumour I saw was SAC was offering Monk + 2030 protected FRP but GSW wants it unprotected, crazy.

The other issue for GSW in trying to trade Kuminga is only half his salary will count. Warriors would need to include one of buddy or moody to make numbers work.

Warriors should just give him the contract they’ve offered but make year two a player option. They are royally screwing the guy unnecessarily imo. I hope Karma is keeping notes.

[Tripod]

That way Quickley could make the locker room toxic, refuse to sit since it’s a contract year and probably make our pick worse, leverage a no trade clause with his bird rights, then leave for nothing since QO signees never re-sign with that team.

The messiness GS and Chicago are going through isn’t something to aspire to, they’ve sat out free agency entirely because of their RFA’s cap holds. They should’ve found trades for Kuminga and Giddey sooner if they weren’t in their long-term plans.

Yep, it's better to overpay everybody and have a team with a happy locker room that can't contend - what was I thinking!

IQ would’ve got that kind of money elsewhere. If he can give us 20/5/6 on good efficiency then he’s worth every penny.

Players were getting paid that year. It was a great time to be a free agent. Who would’ve thought a guy like OG would get paid 45 million a year? Or Suggs would get 30 million a year despite being like a 11ppg scorer?

At least IQs contract is fixed. He will take up a smaller percentage of our cap each year. And no one will be complaining about his contract if this team can make the playoffs next year.

You know that's not true. Some complain about everything...deserving or not.

[mihaic]

Yep, it's better to overpay everybody and have a team with a happy locker room that can't contend - what was I thinking!

IQ would’ve got that kind of money elsewhere. If he can give us 20/5/6 on good efficiency then he’s worth every penny.

Players were getting paid that year. It was a great time to be a free agent. Who would’ve thought a guy like OG would get paid 45 million a year? Or Suggs would get 30 million a year despite being like a 11ppg scorer?

At least IQs contract is fixed. He will take up a smaller percentage of our cap each year. And no one will be complaining about his contract if this team can make the playoffs next year.

You know that's not true. Some complain about everything...deserving or not.

Technically, you are complaining right now too, that people are complaining about stuff that does not deserve complaining

But ye you are right

[causal_fan]

Regardless of IQ's performance for the remainder of his contract, I'd criticize the FO for paying more than they should have - there's no way IQ would have gotten that contract as a RFA last year or as a UFA this year. As I've mentioned before, I don't think the Raptors have a single "value contract" on the team - a poor reflection of their FO & cap management.

[mihaic]

Regardless of IQ's performance for the remainder of his contract, I'd criticize the FO for paying more than they should have - there's no way IQ would have gotten that contract as a RFA last year or as a UFA this year. As I've mentioned before, I don't think the Raptors have a single "value contract" on the team - a poor reflection of their FO & cap management.

Agreed

[Los_29]

Regardless of IQ's performance for the remainder of his contract, I'd criticize the FO for paying more than they should have - there's no way IQ would have gotten that contract as a RFA last year or as a UFA this year. As I've mentioned before, I don't think the Raptors have a single "value contract" on the team - a poor reflection of their FO & cap management.

You can say that about nearly every contract that was signed last offseason. They had IQ projected to get around 30 million a year. He got a tad over that. Also had OG and Suggs making less, they both got more.

[Godaddycurse]

Regardless of IQ's performance for the remainder of his contract, I'd criticize the FO for paying more than they should have - there's no way IQ would have gotten that contract as a RFA last year or as a UFA this year. As I've mentioned before, I don't think the Raptors have a single "value contract" on the team - a poor reflection of their FO & cap management.

You can say that about nearly every contract that was signed last offseason. They had IQ projected to get around 30 million a year. He got a tad over that. Also had OG and Suggs making less, they both got more.

IQ would have gotten a 5 % raise 4 year contract (possibly 3+1 PO) in FA, probably around 30M AAV from Orlando (they paid 22M 2+1 PO for KCP so def would have paid more for IQ).

A flat 32.5M deal with a fifth year is not bad at all vs 3 years of control only, first of which is wasted on a tanking team