Kuminga to SAC, is there a middle ground?

[jbk1234]

If the Warriors think there’s even a slim chance the Kings relent on an unprotected first I’d get it where they’d play a game of chicken here.

The problem is Kuminga isn't worth an unprotected pick and if he signs the Q.O., they probably pull the current offer.

[jscott]

An unprotected or lightly protected Kings 1st probably would have enough value to make a follow-up deal (either now or midseason) that would net help the Warriors. Which is why GS reportedly would be willing to make such a deal with the Kings.

The Kings are only offering a pick that's protected so that it will almost certainly be a 2031 Sprus 1st with prime Wemby. That has much less value and probably wouldn't be enough to make a useful upgrade move (especially when a 3rd team would probably have to be paid off for salary logistics).

In order to take the gamble of a move that makes the Warriors worse, GS needs a more significant trade asset than the Kings are offering.

6 years is a long way away to know the situation for the Spurs/Wemby, especially for a guy built like Ralph Sampson. But regardless, the more time that passes the worst the value will be for the Warriors.

As a trade asset, the rest of the league is going to see that as a very low value 1st (relevant for GS trying to use it for a later win-now move)

The trade value of JK is already at effectively zero - or neutral value (multi-year contract a team doesn't want + low-value 1st). I don't see it falling (unless JK gets signed to a huge long-term deal). Playing a year on a QO then leaving isn't a loss in value at this point.

Getting actual value for JK would involve a time machine. Nobody is currently offering clear positive value for him.

You acknowledge Kuminga has close to zero value and at the same time believe the Warriors should get more value than that from SAC….?

[giberish]

6 years is a long way away to know the situation for the Spurs/Wemby, especially for a guy built like Ralph Sampson. But regardless, the more time that passes the worst the value will be for the Warriors.

As a trade asset, the rest of the league is going to see that as a very low value 1st (relevant for GS trying to use it for a later win-now move)

The trade value of JK is already at effectively zero - or neutral value (multi-year contract a team doesn't want + low-value 1st). I don't see it falling (unless JK gets signed to a huge long-term deal). Playing a year on a QO then leaving isn't a loss in value at this point.

Getting actual value for JK would involve a time machine. Nobody is currently offering clear positive value for him.

You acknowledge Kuminga has close to zero value and at the same time believe the Warriors should get more value than that from SAC….?

The Warriors shouldn't make a deal that makes their team worse next season. I'm not saying that Sacramento should be offering more, just that it's better for the Warriors not to accept the current offer (and that without teams offering anything of real value there's no opportunity cost to not making a deal).

In general the CBA logistics of a S%T deal with Kuminga makes it very hard to make a deal that ends up helping the Warriors next season - especially if the other team isn't severely overpaying in terms of trade assets. That's why I strongly believe that JK will be back with the Warriors next season - either on a QO or a multi-year deal. It could go either way - the right multi-year deal is best for the Warriors (and could end up with a midseason trade) but too much money and it's not as good and JK may prefer the QO anyways.

[raferfenix]

If the Warriors think there’s even a slim chance the Kings relent on an unprotected first I’d get it where they’d play a game of chicken here.

The problem is Kuminga isn't worth an unprotected pick and if he signs the Q.O., they probably pull the current offer.

Yes. And if the Warriors don’t really want Monk they are at least acting like they’re good risking that other protected first, hence no deal.

[jbk1234]

If the Warriors think there’s even a slim chance the Kings relent on an unprotected first I’d get it where they’d play a game of chicken here.

The problem is Kuminga isn't worth an unprotected pick and if he signs the Q.O., they probably pull the current offer.

Yes. And if the Warriors don’t really want Monk they are at least acting like they’re good risking that other protected first, hence no deal.

If the rest of the league doesn't value Kuminga as much as the Warriors owner, than the Warriors should just pay him, but Kuminga signing the QO, and it's a real possibility, is the absolute worse case scenario. He won't be back after this season.

[SacTown Kings]

An unprotected or lightly protected Kings 1st probably would have enough value to make a follow-up deal (either now or midseason) that would net help the Warriors. Which is why GS reportedly would be willing to make such a deal with the Kings.

The Kings are only offering a pick that's protected so that it will almost certainly be a 2031 Sprus 1st with prime Wemby. That has much less value and probably wouldn't be enough to make a useful upgrade move (especially when a 3rd team would probably have to be paid off for salary logistics).

In order to take the gamble of a move that makes the Warriors worse, GS needs a more significant trade asset than the Kings are offering.

6 years is a long way away to know the situation for the Spurs/Wemby, especially for a guy built like Ralph Sampson. But regardless, the more time that passes the worst the value will be for the Warriors.

As a trade asset, the rest of the league is going to see that as a very low value 1st (relevant for GS trying to use it for a later win-now move)

The trade value of JK is already at effectively zero - or neutral value (multi-year contract a team doesn't want + low-value 1st). I don't see it falling (unless JK gets signed to a huge long-term deal). Playing a year on a QO then leaving isn't a loss in value at this point.

Getting actual value for JK would involve a time machine. Nobody is currently offering clear positive value for him.

Well IMO a runner up of 6th man of the year, still in his prime, and a mid to late 1st round pick isn't exactly zero value. It might not be what GS wants or fits their plans, fair enough. But there is some value there for a guy GS doesn't even wants and will just be a cancer if he returns. JK seems hell bent on taking the QO to control his destiny and if that happens GS isn't getting anything. They should of took the Carter and a 1st deal. Carter has potential, he is already a good defensive player.

[giberish]

The problem is Kuminga isn't worth an unprotected pick and if he signs the Q.O., they probably pull the current offer.

Yes. And if the Warriors don’t really want Monk they are at least acting like they’re good risking that other protected first, hence no deal.

If the rest of the league doesn't value Kuminga as much as the Warriors owner, than the Warriors should just pay him, but Kuminga signing the QO, and it's a real possibility, is the absolute worse case scenario. He won't be back after this season.

Kuminga playing the year on the QO and then leaving next summer isn't the worst case scenario.

Making a deal that hurts the Warriors this season and has no significant long-term upside is worse. A distant late 1st is insignificant compared to hurting the team during one of the last competitive years of the current run. I don't know why that's hard for people to understand.

If GS was already in rebuilding mode then sure, get the low-value 1st as better than nothing because the short-term downgrade doesn't matter. But that's not where GS is.

[theBigLip]

JK seems very serious about taking the QO. Good for him. Warriors need a reality check. Their offer is very lopsided. No way JK needs to sign that. Do a S&T w the Kings and be done w it already.

[cucad8]

Kuminga playing the year on the QO and then leaving next summer isn't the worst case scenario.

Making a deal that hurts the Warriors this season and has no significant long-term upside is worse. A distant late 1st is insignificant compared to hurting the team during one of the last competitive years of the current run. I don't know why that's hard for people to understand.

If GS was already in rebuilding mode then sure, get the low-value 1st as better than nothing because the short-term downgrade doesn't matter. But that's not where GS is.

I don't know why it's hard to understand people's trepidation about what sort of season you get out of Kuminga this year. And getting a 6th man, and an asset that can be used at the deadline cold be more helpful that a pouting player that can't be traded.

[giberish]

Kuminga playing the year on the QO and then leaving next summer isn't the worst case scenario.

Making a deal that hurts the Warriors this season and has no significant long-term upside is worse. A distant late 1st is insignificant compared to hurting the team during one of the last competitive years of the current run. I don't know why that's hard for people to understand.

If GS was already in rebuilding mode then sure, get the low-value 1st as better than nothing because the short-term downgrade doesn't matter. But that's not where GS is.

I don't know why it's hard to understand people's trepidation about what sort of season you get out of Kuminga this year. And getting a 6th man, and an asset that can be used at the deadline cold be more helpful that a pouting player that can't be traded.

The straight up deal hard-caps GS at the 1st apron, costing Horford at least. A modified deal sending out Heild or Moody to a 3rd team in order to avoid that has other costs. Moving Heild and you've just swapped scoring guards and I don't see much upgrade (while creating a major PF depth problem). Moving Moody takes away a SF option that would likely be an emergency PF depth - creating an even bigger forward hole.

Also, GS would have to dump one for no salary back - which isn't easy at this point. It very well might take the low value 1st Sacramento is sending just to accomplish this. The logistics of a S&T deal at this point make it so that there is a net loss in value. A deal that's neutral value for Sac is a loss for GS. A deal that's neutral value for GS is a loss for Sac (or some other team). This is why I don't expect a deal to happen.

[NW]

While I agree the Warriors need to add some guaranteed money to the second year as a compromise, I find it funny people downplay Kuminga’s skill but feel the Warriors should give him a better harder to trade deal. A few things:

1. Believe Kuminga and his agent talking to Anthony Slater (who is serving as their mouthpiece, which is fine) all you want. He don’t want to take that QO offer and trick off $14 mil or more to gamble not on himself, but on a team like the Wiz, Bulls or Jazz (one team that didn’t want him in the Lauri trade talks and two that had interest and went in other directions) will be looking to give him $20+ mil next year. Cause QO means no bird rights and little motivation for GS to help in a S&T.

2. This idea of wanting control is silly imo. He’ll be on a one year deal at best. Either a team wants to trade for him cause they believe in him-which is what he supposedly wants-or they want him for the cap relief. If he doesn’t like the team that’s trading for the former, he’s got Slater on speed dial. Say he don’t want to there and that team won’t trade for him or not give much to make the Warriors do a deal for a 1 year rental. If a team is trading for the latter, Should be no problem negotiating a buyout and he can go to the team of his choice. Either way, by this time next year, Kuminga is playing for a team he wants to be on. Only question is how much money he’s made on his way there. Makes no sense for the answer to be the least amount.

3. Folks got to quit overrating this Kings deal. The Kings can’t give Monk and his contract away for a reason-and they’re trying so they can clear a spot for Russell Westbrook of all people. The likely 2031 Spurs pick is going to basically be a second round level talent with a guaranteed contract barring Wemby hitting his head on an airplane flying overhead. That pick is the price the Kings would likely pay to any team for taking Monk off their hands. If Monk had the value some here say, he wouldn’t still be on the Kings and they’d be scheduling a Westbrook press conference. Throw in Devin Carter, a 6’2 guard who can’t shoot or run point, but can play defense. Cool, GS got one of those already and he’s taking the vet min when this Kuminga mess ends and at least he makes Steph Curry laugh. And all this is without even addressing having to trade Moody or Hield and adding the draft capital it would take to get a team to take one of those. It’s not a good trade for GS, just best of two reported bad one. JK on the QO (at least they get the NTMLE to use. $14 mil trade piece is no $21 mil trade piece, but it’s something) or a compromised deal, still the likeliest scenario, is better.

[eminence]

Couple questions - Has there been talk of where Kuminga wants to go? If Kuminga signs the QO does he just have a ntc or is he actually untradable?

Could it be easier to deal him after he's signed the QO? As opposed to all the S&T deals which have them sending out players they presumably like (Moody/Buddy) for players they don't really value (Monk/etc).

[Crives]

Couple questions - Has there been talk of where Kuminga wants to go? If Kuminga signs the QO does he just have a ntc or is he actually untradable?

Could it be easier to deal him after he's signed the QO? As opposed to all the S&T deals which have them sending out players they presumably like (Moody/Buddy) for players they don't really value (Monk/etc).

Just NTC.. but team trading for him gets 0 bird rights, so his value would drop significantly. Basically limits trading partners to teams with good cap space next summer.. and those teams won’t give much if they can sign him in the summer

[eminence]

Couple questions - Has there been talk of where Kuminga wants to go? If Kuminga signs the QO does he just have a ntc or is he actually untradable?

Could it be easier to deal him after he's signed the QO? As opposed to all the S&T deals which have them sending out players they presumably like (Moody/Buddy) for players they don't really value (Monk/etc).

Just NTC.. but team trading for him gets 0 bird rights, so his value would drop significantly. Basically limits trading partners to teams with good cap space next summer.. and those teams won’t give much if they can sign him in the summer

Makes sense. Thanks

[sackings916]

As a trade asset, the rest of the league is going to see that as a very low value 1st (relevant for GS trying to use it for a later win-now move)

The trade value of JK is already at effectively zero - or neutral value (multi-year contract a team doesn't want + low-value 1st). I don't see it falling (unless JK gets signed to a huge long-term deal). Playing a year on a QO then leaving isn't a loss in value at this point.

Getting actual value for JK would involve a time machine. Nobody is currently offering clear positive value for him.

You acknowledge Kuminga has close to zero value and at the same time believe the Warriors should get more value than that from SAC….?

The Warriors shouldn't make a deal that makes their team worse next season. I'm not saying that Sacramento should be offering more, just that it's better for the Warriors not to accept the current offer (and that without teams offering anything of real value there's no opportunity cost to not making a deal).

In general the CBA logistics of a S%T deal with Kuminga makes it very hard to make a deal that ends up helping the Warriors next season - especially if the other team isn't severely overpaying in terms of trade assets. That's why I strongly believe that JK will be back with the Warriors next season - either on a QO or a multi-year deal. It could go either way - the right multi-year deal is best for the Warriors (and could end up with a midseason trade) but too much money and it's not as good and JK may prefer the QO anyways.

If we’re just talking about next season, Monk makes the Warriors a better team versus Kuminga. He’ll bring scoring on all 3 levels and a facilitator, and more importantly he’ll actually play.

[zimpy27]

Kuminga should just sign QO, he will have interest in 26 offseason

[SNPA]

Kuminga should just sign QO, he will have interest in 26 offseason

All the signs are pointing to him signing it or the Warriors cracking last second.

[NW]

Kuminga should just sign QO, he will have interest in 26 offseason

All the signs are pointing to him signing it or the Warriors cracking last second.

Warriors may crack, but it won’t be in a way Kings fans will benefit. Most likely is just more guaranteed money in year 2

[NW]

You acknowledge Kuminga has close to zero value and at the same time believe the Warriors should get more value than that from SAC….?

The Warriors shouldn't make a deal that makes their team worse next season. I'm not saying that Sacramento should be offering more, just that it's better for the Warriors not to accept the current offer (and that without teams offering anything of real value there's no opportunity cost to not making a deal).

In general the CBA logistics of a S%T deal with Kuminga makes it very hard to make a deal that ends up helping the Warriors next season - especially if the other team isn't severely overpaying in terms of trade assets. That's why I strongly believe that JK will be back with the Warriors next season - either on a QO or a multi-year deal. It could go either way - the right multi-year deal is best for the Warriors (and could end up with a midseason trade) but too much money and it's not as good and JK may prefer the QO anyways.

If we’re just talking about next season, Monk makes the Warriors a better team versus Kuminga. He’ll bring scoring on all 3 levels and a facilitator, and more importantly he’ll actually play.

That assumes Kuminga isn’t traded, where a return could make the Warriors better than Monk when also taking into account losing Hield or Moody and additional draft capital to trade one of them

[giberish]

You acknowledge Kuminga has close to zero value and at the same time believe the Warriors should get more value than that from SAC….?

The Warriors shouldn't make a deal that makes their team worse next season. I'm not saying that Sacramento should be offering more, just that it's better for the Warriors not to accept the current offer (and that without teams offering anything of real value there's no opportunity cost to not making a deal).

In general the CBA logistics of a S%T deal with Kuminga makes it very hard to make a deal that ends up helping the Warriors next season - especially if the other team isn't severely overpaying in terms of trade assets. That's why I strongly believe that JK will be back with the Warriors next season - either on a QO or a multi-year deal. It could go either way - the right multi-year deal is best for the Warriors (and could end up with a midseason trade) but too much money and it's not as good and JK may prefer the QO anyways.

If we’re just talking about next season, Monk makes the Warriors a better team versus Kuminga. He’ll bring scoring on all 3 levels and a facilitator, and more importantly he’ll actually play.

I disagree. JK + Heild or Moody brings more value to the Warriors than Monk. Monk isn't that big of an upgrade on Heild, while without JK or another big forward the PF rotation collapses when either Butler or Draymond miss a game.

I also am very skeptical about the plan for a rebalancing trade later on as players like Monk have had terrible trade value this summer.