Warriors exploring S&T for Kuminga

[CS707]

We can agree to disagree, I'll just say there are a million practice players that can't replicate it when the live bullets start flying. FTs are the most common example. BTW, I'm not saying he is a great shooter. Can he consistently hit 36% from 3 and, as a result get more playing time here? I think so (and he has, on low volume). Does he need the confidence (self, from kerr, from the team) to do it? Almost certainly.

Losing him as an asset is a pretty bad scenario, for us. We have 2 assets on this roster we can move that are worth >0. Podz and JK. I'm not counting Steph, Dray, or JB since we need all 3 to be relevant. Punting on one of our 2 assets is a luxury we can't afford. Just like DNP-CDing was a luxury we couldn't afford last year. Yes, his fit, mental willingness, ability, and matury (basketball-wise) are all a question. The problem is, this roster isnt' talented enough to just punt on JK like he's Jordan Bell and we got prime Steph/KD/Klay/Dray/Iggy to ride into the spring. He's not and we don't.

It’s not an ideal scenario but I’m not troubled by the possibility of losing him for nothing. I expect a major shakeup next offseason if things don’t go well so the I don’t feel the same desperation for retaining him as a salary slot. The trade options aren’t likely to be much better mid season than we’re seeing now anyway, especially if we end up giving him a PO. As I have said several times, the PO just puts pressure on him to perform if he wants a contract anything close to what it seems he’s looking for. If he does have a good season, the Warriors will still be in the best position to retain him, IMO.

A PO is always an advantage for the player. IF the warriors are so desperate to give $0 guarantees in year 2 AND keeping the TO, just let him keep the NTC. He's motivated to leave and will likely approve most trades (maybe he doesn't want to go to uta based on the fans' rep). If they are so hung up on the NTC, just remove the TO and put a partial guarantee on year 2. Done. I really don't see the reason to drag this out. With Jimmy in China, Steph and Dray doing their own thing, and the FAs willing to wait, there's no real reason to rush, I guess. The vibes matter.

I meant that the QO puts pressure on him to perform, not PO. Mistype on my part. I don’t really disagree with anything you’re saying here other than I don’t see the incentive for the organization to move off their stance right now. Someone (maybe you?) made a good point that he’s probably hoping we pull the offer and move forward with the idea that he’s going to play on the QO, so someone can sneak in an offer we won’t be prepared to match any longer. I expect a stalemate for quite a while.

[vvoland]

It’s not an ideal scenario but I’m not troubled by the possibility of losing him for nothing. I expect a major shakeup next offseason if things don’t go well so the I don’t feel the same desperation for retaining him as a salary slot. The trade options aren’t likely to be much better mid season than we’re seeing now anyway, especially if we end up giving him a PO. As I have said several times, the PO just puts pressure on him to perform if he wants a contract anything close to what it seems he’s looking for. If he does have a good season, the Warriors will still be in the best position to retain him, IMO.

A PO is always an advantage for the player. IF the warriors are so desperate to give $0 guarantees in year 2 AND keeping the TO, just let him keep the NTC. He's motivated to leave and will likely approve most trades (maybe he doesn't want to go to uta based on the fans' rep). If they are so hung up on the NTC, just remove the TO and put a partial guarantee on year 2. Done. I really don't see the reason to drag this out. With Jimmy in China, Steph and Dray doing their own thing, and the FAs willing to wait, there's no real reason to rush, I guess. The vibes matter.

I meant that the QO puts pressure on him to perform, not PO. Mistype on my part. I don’t really disagree with anything you’re saying here other than I don’t see the incentive for the organization to move off their stance right now. Someone (maybe you?) made a good point that he’s probably hoping we pull the offer and move forward with the idea that he’s going to play on the QO, so someone can sneak in an offer we won’t be prepared to match any longer. I expect a stalemate for quite a while.

Not my idea. I think JK would want the 45M over 2 years over anything else being offered.

[tal57]

Looks like that POS had dug in to play on the 7.9 mil and leave. If I am the Warriors, consider him the sunk cost. Sign who you can and want to sign and don't let him step on the court for a minute of playing time the entire season.

A lot of anger directed at a guy who is just exercising his rights. Can’t understand why fans like you think the guy has to just fall in line with what you think is the best course for the team. Have fun with that outlook.

My anger is not with JK, my anger is directed at Lacob for royally screwing up 3 (count 3) very valuable lotto draft pics. Having no choice but to already eat one, his ego doesn't fantom to choke on the next one.
That next one will not amount to anything here, not for the next several years with the incompatible veterans, bulking at coming off the bench and the coach who despises him. At this point I would have either rescinded his QO and cut bait or would have taken the latest Kings offer. if Lacob's desire to win the trade no matter what to stroke his ego did not stand in the way. Monk, Horford, Melton and maybe another able player would have given the dubs much more than JK's half assed effort on the QO deal. He'll be looking to get out the door or play for himself to pump his value to the potential suitors.

[bay2hk]

JK signing the QO gives warriors a lot of flexibility. We can fill our roster out with Horford at TPMLE plus 3 vet min and still be under the under the first apron. One of those vet min should be partial guaranteed though (Seth?).

[EvanZ]

Read on Twitter

God damn that’s telling

[tal57]

JK signing the QO gives warriors a lot of flexibility. We can fill our roster out with Horford at TPMLE plus 3 vet min and still be under the under the first apron. One of those vet min should be partial guaranteed though (Seth?).

Do you think if he drags QO to October just to spite the Warriors, will Horford and those 3 vets you are talking about will still be there. Nice if they are, but what if they will not.

[statsman]

JK signing the QO gives warriors a lot of flexibility. We can fill our roster out with Horford at TPMLE plus 3 vet min and still be under the under the first apron. One of those vet min should be partial guaranteed though (Seth?).

Repeating this a hundred times does not make it true. There was only one reason for the Warriors to stay under the first apron, and that would have been to use the NTMLE, Bi-Annual, and/or the SloMo $8.8M TPE. That ship may have sailed a week or two into the offseason. There is no one left, outside of Horford, who is worth more than the vet minimum. And it would have been better to have let Kuminga go, if that were the case.

If Lacob truly has plans to try and acquire Giannis or some other big name this season, he will not let the Warriors be hard capped at the first apron. Their 1+1 offer to Kuminga would insure they would blow past the first apron.

[oaktown_refugee]

So if JK prefers 1 yr / $7MM to 2 yr / $45MM, is there a scenario where he declines the QO, plays overseas for one year, and returns to the NBA as an UFA next season?

[statsman]

So if JK prefers 1 yr / $7MM to 2 yr / $45MM, is there a scenario where he declines the QO, plays overseas for one year, and returns to the NBA as an UFA next season?

If he does not sign with the Warriors, and the Warriors do not renounce their rights to him, he would be a restricted free agent again next offseason.

As a reminder, the QO is scheduled to expire on October 1st, unless the Warriors and Kuminga agree to have it extended (as far out as March 1st). Also, once the regular season starts, S&T deals are no longer allowed.

[vvoland]

Read on Twitter

God damn that’s telling

Right, cuz the bucks have been making great decisions lately..

[EvanZ]

Read on Twitter

God damn that’s telling

Right, cuz the bucks have been making great decisions lately..

I mean bro, come on. Bobby Portis. There's no "superstar" in the making that a team is saying nah, Bobby Portis is untouchable.

You really have to perform some mental shenanigans to avoid coming to that conclusion. There's just no real taste for Kuminga outside of Warriors stans.

The sad thing about all this is how long it took the FO to figure it out. For years telling us that Kuminga is untouchable and yeah, maybe they were right. The rest of the league doesn't want to touch him at all.

[EvanZ]

So if JK prefers 1 yr / $7MM to 2 yr / $45MM, is there a scenario where he declines the QO, plays overseas for one year, and returns to the NBA as an UFA next season?

Why would he play overseas where he'd make even less than the QO? I mean he might end up there one day but it sure as hell won't be by choice.

[statsman]

The sad thing about all this is how long it took the FO to figure it out. For years telling us that Kuminga is untouchable and yeah, maybe they were right. The rest of the league doesn't want to touch him at all.

Well, for the right price, other teams might take on Kuminga. It meant they wanted the Warriors to sell for, at best, a quarter on a dollar.

Reports indicated the Kings were willing to offer Kuminga 3/63 and a starting position (I question the latter). Last offseason, Kuminga's camp was stating their position as a max contract. That would have been 5/224 starting this season. The first three seasons of that would have been 3/125 or twice of what the Kings were offering.

Of course, part of the deal was for the Warriors to take on Malik Monk, a contract the Kings haven't been able to get rid of, along with a heavily-protected first round pick. In addition, this would have required the Warriors to jettison either Hield or Moody for little to no returning salary to stay out of a 1st apron hard cap.

I think I just proved your point.

[bay2hk]

JK signing the QO gives warriors a lot of flexibility. We can fill our roster out with Horford at TPMLE plus 3 vet min and still be under the under the first apron. One of those vet min should be partial guaranteed though (Seth?).

Repeating this a hundred times does not make it true. There was only one reason for the Warriors to stay under the first apron, and that would have been to use the NTMLE, Bi-Annual, and/or the SloMo $8.8M TPE. That ship may have sailed a week or two into the offseason. There is no one left, outside of Horford, who is worth more than the vet minimum. And it would have been better to have let Kuminga go, if that were the case.

If Lacob truly has plans to try and acquire Giannis or some other big name this season, he will not let the Warriors be hard capped at the first apron. Their 1+1 offer to Kuminga would insure they would blow past the first apron.

This is of course postering by JK. Warriors have all the time and leverage while JK only has leverage until 10/1 when his QO expires. If we value the salary slot so much just give GP2 a 1 year partial guarantee for $13.8m (the delta between JK’s extension offer and QO). This gives dubs the flexibility to waive him next January if we don’t find a trade and GP2 gets paid more than the vet min even if he is waived during the season.

We don’t need JK’s salary slot if it’s going to put us in a Jordan Poole contract situation.

[vvoland]

The sad thing about all this is how long it took the FO to figure it out. For years telling us that Kuminga is untouchable and yeah, maybe they were right. The rest of the league doesn't want to touch him at all.

Well, for the right price, other teams might take on Kuminga. It meant they wanted the Warriors to sell for, at best, a quarter on a dollar.

Reports indicated the Kings were willing to offer Kuminga 3/63 and a starting position (I question the latter). Last offseason, Kuminga's camp was stating their position as a max contract. That would have been 5/224 starting this season. The first three seasons of that would have been 3/125 or twice of what the Kings were offering.

Of course, part of the deal was for the Warriors to take on Malik Monk, a contract the Kings haven't been able to get rid of, along with a heavily-protected first round pick. In addition, this would have required the Warriors to jettison either Hield or Moody for little to no returning salary to stay out of a 1st apron hard cap.

I think I just proved your point.

I think we all know, by now, that's not true. JK's position last summer, as a starting point of negotiations, was using the Jalen contract as a base : 5/150. He didn't ask for the max

[vvoland]

God damn that’s telling

Right, cuz the bucks have been making great decisions lately..

I mean bro, come on. Bobby Portis. There's no "superstar" in the making that a team is saying nah, Bobby Portis is untouchable.

You really have to perform some mental shenanigans to avoid coming to that conclusion. There's just no real taste for Kuminga outside of Warriors stans.

The sad thing about all this is how long it took the FO to figure it out. For years telling us that Kuminga is untouchable and yeah, maybe they were right. The rest of the league doesn't want to touch him at all.

Who the f is calling JK a "superstar"? Except, of course, you when constructing your strawmen?

The dubs never said jk was untouchable and, most likely, would have traded him for :
og (ny had the better offer, according to Masai),
siakam (if the felt he would extend),
pg (if the clips didn't ask for more) and
Lauri (of ainge didn't want lacob's firstborn).

We can all be glad we dodged the Lauri and pg bullets.

There's plenty to discuss without making shttt up

[EvanZ]

Right, cuz the bucks have been making great decisions lately..

I mean bro, come on. Bobby Portis. There's no "superstar" in the making that a team is saying nah, Bobby Portis is untouchable.

You really have to perform some mental shenanigans to avoid coming to that conclusion. There's just no real taste for Kuminga outside of Warriors stans.

The sad thing about all this is how long it took the FO to figure it out. For years telling us that Kuminga is untouchable and yeah, maybe they were right. The rest of the league doesn't want to touch him at all.

Who the f is calling JK a "superstar"? Except, of course, you when constructing your strawmen?

The dubs never said jk was untouchable and, most likely, would have traded him for :
og (ny had the better offer, according to Masai),
siakam (if the felt he would extend),
pg (if the clips didn't ask for more) and
Lauri (of ainge didn't want lacob's firstborn).

We can all be glad we dodged the Lauri and pg bullets.

There's plenty to discuss without making shttt up

tbf JK is calling himself a superstar

[Twinkie defense]

My projected guess is Dubbs will open real talks come 9/15, at the latest. No way they will wait until 10/1 if JK goes to the deadline. Some of the handshake deals will have walked before then when money is involved.

Warriors have made their offers, it's up to Kuminga to decide whether he wants to play for the QO or a potentially tradable 1+1 deal.

[Twinkie defense]

The fact that Portis is making $13,445,754 this coming season and the Dubs wanted to swap him for Kuminga gives you an idea how much the Dubs think Kuminga is worth.

Well with Kuminga's BYC status and $13.5 mil coming back that means he makes $27 mil, so probably a nonstarter.

[Twinkie defense]

IF the warriors are so desperate to give $0 guarantees in year 2 AND keeping the TO, just let him keep the NTC.

If Kuminga gets a no trade clause why wouldn't the Warriors just keep him on the QO?