Bears 12.0

[TheJordanRule]

https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears/2025/08/14/bears-training-camp-caleb-williams-book-bill-belichick-sean-payton-concerns-usc-ryan-poles-nfl

Payton saw something similar. Despite seeing “all the elements of a prodigy, including the vibe of being a legend in his own mind,”

Payton’s worries went beyond completion percentage.

“His primary concerns with Williams are existential,” Wickersham wrote. “Williams has yet to be broken in his life.”

Payton liked Williams’ arm, but—per Wickersham—questioned the QB’s processing speed and how he’d handle failure,

"Legend in his own mind" is precisely the vibe of somebody that would re-post that video. Dude won 5 games last year.

Listen, I hope I'm wrong but to me as just a person who's been paying attention to this dude for 3+ years now it appears he completely lacks humility and shifts blame away from himself when tough times hit.

Whoa, this is way out of line, brother! CW's mental game is on point. He is Kobe, and part of that Mamba Mentality is that he has to believe in himself AND take actions daily that improve his skills. Just because a player focuses on what he IS getting right doesn't automatically mean he's unaware of the need to improve his weaknesses. If anything, focusing on your strengths Stoically can be a way of getting hyped and motivating yourself to improve.

[Dresden]

Bears fans at this point should fully understand that drafting a QB to a lame duck head coach and then asking them to learn a completely different system in year two is a recipe for disaster.

This is literally the third time that you've had a second year QB being asked to have to completely redo his fundamentals and on top of that learn a complete new system.

Bears fans aren't a bunch of damn morons without an ounce of historical context - we've seen this song and dance multiple times now and the lack of continuity has been a major factor in the slow development of their QBs since 2018. You can look around the NFL and point to the coaching staff disfunction of other young QBs (Darnold, Baker Mayfield, Bryce Young, Trevor Lawrence, even Mac Jones had his development stifled by switching OCs in year 2) and see that the Bears "plan" since 2018 is clearly not the ideal plan to develop a QB.

Not sure our methodology did those guys any favors, but the last two guys look like they simply aren't that good. I don't think they were a different coaching setup away from being successful, though that question is always a chicken or an egg thing. Lack of developing a QB is also a reason head coaches tend to get fired regardless of whether the issue is with the coach or the QB.

Situation matters, having a plan and following it is key to anything in life and in each instance they had the plan blow up in their face by October.

Then the second season it's been a completely new plan with a completely new coaching staff.

It's been a complete organizational failure.

What are you going to say if the Bears are actually good this year?

[Susan]

Not sure our methodology did those guys any favors, but the last two guys look like they simply aren't that good. I don't think they were a different coaching setup away from being successful, though that question is always a chicken or an egg thing. Lack of developing a QB is also a reason head coaches tend to get fired regardless of whether the issue is with the coach or the QB.

Situation matters, having a plan and following it is key to anything in life and in each instance they had the plan blow up in their face by October.

Then the second season it's been a completely new plan with a completely new coaching staff.

It's been a complete organizational failure.

What are you going to say if the Bears are actually good this year?

I will be happily wrong.

[fleet]

There was all this exited talk about how good Ozzy Trapilo looked practicing in underwear this summer at left tackle. As a result, the question was left, how a good 6’8 left tackle could still be on the board through the second round. It just didn’t add up. Who was even asking the question? The answer filtered in: Because he’s not a left tackle.

Read on Twitter

[Dresden]

There was all this exited talk about how good Ozzy Trapilo looked practicing in underwear this summer at left tackle. As a result, the question was left, how a good 6’8 left tackle could still be on the board through the second round. It just didn’t add up. Who was even asking the question? The answer filtered in: Because he’s not a left tackle.

Read on Twitter

Practicing in his underwear? What channel are you watching?

[Dresden]

Situation matters, having a plan and following it is key to anything in life and in each instance they had the plan blow up in their face by October.

Then the second season it's been a completely new plan with a completely new coaching staff.

It's been a complete organizational failure.

What are you going to say if the Bears are actually good this year?

I will be happily wrong.

How could that possibly happen though, with all the disasterous things you say are going on in the organization and the team?

[dougthonus]

Situation matters, having a plan and following it is key to anything in life and in each instance they had the plan blow up in their face by October.

Then the second season it's been a completely new plan with a completely new coaching staff.

It's been a complete organizational failure.

I think the Flus thing was weird last year for sure, was talking more along the lines of Trubisky / Fields development. Those guys stink, I don't think we were different organizational planning away from them being good.

With Caleb, jury is still out. Certainly hope he proves to be good.

[Susan]

What are you going to say if the Bears are actually good this year?

I will be happily wrong.

How could that possibly happen though, with all the disasterous things you say are going on in the organization and the team?

The team was 5-12 and went on a 10/11 game losing streak to end the season and didn't adequately address the most important position on the OL.

I think Poles is bad and have serious doubts about Caleb in general and don't really think he's a natural fit for Ben's offense. I hope Johnson can get through to him and he's our franchise QB for the next 15 years, but it's not a foregone conclusion that this will happen.

Situation matters, having a plan and following it is key to anything in life and in each instance they had the plan blow up in their face by October.

Then the second season it's been a completely new plan with a completely new coaching staff.

It's been a complete organizational failure.

I think the Flus thing was weird last year for sure, was talking more along the lines of Trubisky / Fields development. Those guys stink, I don't think we were different organizational planning away from them being good.

With Caleb, jury is still out. Certainly hope he proves to be good.

Every year there's a QB who goes from a bad situation and establishes themselves in a good situation. 2022 it was Geno Smith, 2023 it was Baker Mayfield, 2024 it was Sam Darnold and this year it's going to be Fields.

If you go out and buy a plant but have no idea how often to water it because it's just a stupid plant and why would you look up the vital details to keep this plant alive and it dies, who's fault is it that it died? You or the plant?

[NZB2323]

I think it’s very possible that our offense is bad the first half of the season and good the 2nd half of the season. It may take guys a while to learn all the details of Ben Johnson’s scheme, especially Caleb.

[dougthonus]

Every year there's a QB who goes from a bad situation and establishes themselves in a good situation. 2022 it was Geno Smith, 2023 it was Baker Mayfield, 2024 it was Sam Darnold and this year it's going to be Fields.

If you go out and buy a plant but have no idea how often to water it because it's just a stupid plant and why would you look up the vital details to keep this plant alive and it dies, who's fault is it that it died? You or the plant?

Every year there are QBs that also just suck and wash out.

If you are hell bent on assessing all the blame on the org, I'm not going to stop you. I look at the situation and think it's pretty muddy. It's a ton of different people involved over the years, but there's never been a Bears QB that left and went and lit it up somewhere else, so I'm pretty suspect of tossing all the blame on the org of developing those guys. Org obviously gets all the blame for drafting them.

[Susan]

Every year there's a QB who goes from a bad situation and establishes themselves in a good situation. 2022 it was Geno Smith, 2023 it was Baker Mayfield, 2024 it was Sam Darnold and this year it's going to be Fields.

If you go out and buy a plant but have no idea how often to water it because it's just a stupid plant and why would you look up the vital details to keep this plant alive and it dies, who's fault is it that it died? You or the plant?

Every year there are QBs that also just suck and wash out.

If you are hell bent on assessing all the blame on the org, I'm not going to stop you. I look at the situation and think it's pretty muddy. It's a ton of different people involved over the years, but there's never been a Bears QB that left and went and lit it up somewhere else, so I'm pretty suspect of tossing all the blame on the org of developing those guys. Org obviously gets all the blame for drafting them.

-Jay Cutler was a pro bowl QB in his 3rd year before coming to the Bears, he never reached those heights again here in Chicago
-Kyle Orton was better after leaving the Bears - not great, but better. Both his 2009 and 2014 seasons were better than anything he did here
-Fields was better in every tangible category last year with the Steelers last year

The thought that stability and situation are meaningless flies wildly against every common thought across the league. Caleb's dad wanted nothing to do with this org because their ineptitude is well known and well documented. If you wanted to ruin the talent of your QB - you'd follow exactly what the Bears have done for the past 20 years and continue to do.

[dougthonus]

-Jay Cutler was a pro bowl QB in his 3rd year before coming to the Bears, he never reached those heights again here in Chicago
-Kyle Orton was better after leaving the Bears - not great, but better. Both his 2009 and 2014 seasons were better than anything he did here
-Fields was better in every tangible category last year with the Steelers last year

Orton / Fields (thus far) were more or less the same player when they left. Guys can have a better or worse season based on many factors.

The thought that stability and situation are meaningless flies wildly against every common thought across the league.

Never said this, nor do I believe it. I said the situation was "muddy", and that a lousy QB will get a coaching staff fired as much as a poor coaching staff will not do a QB any favors.

[Betta Bulleavit]

https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears/2025/08/14/bears-training-camp-caleb-williams-book-bill-belichick-sean-payton-concerns-usc-ryan-poles-nfl

Payton saw something similar. Despite seeing “all the elements of a prodigy, including the vibe of being a legend in his own mind,”

Payton’s worries went beyond completion percentage.

“His primary concerns with Williams are existential,” Wickersham wrote. “Williams has yet to be broken in his life.”

Payton liked Williams’ arm, but—per Wickersham—questioned the QB’s processing speed and how he’d handle failure,

"Legend in his own mind" is precisely the vibe of somebody that would re-post that video. Dude won 5 games last year.

Listen, I hope I'm wrong but to me as just a person who's been paying attention to this dude for 3+ years now it appears he completely lacks humility and shifts blame away from himself when tough times hit.

I’m not sure that I’m following here. What exactly are you talking about? Specifically as it pertains to shifting blame when times get tough? Like you said, they won 5 games last year, which would indicate some pretty tough times. But I don’t recall him shifting blame to anyone. Perhaps you might have other examples in mind though.

[dice]

Every year there's a QB who goes from a bad situation and establishes themselves in a good situation. 2022 it was Geno Smith, 2023 it was Baker Mayfield, 2024 it was Sam Darnold and this year it's going to be Fields.

If you go out and buy a plant but have no idea how often to water it because it's just a stupid plant and why would you look up the vital details to keep this plant alive and it dies, who's fault is it that it died? You or the plant?

Every year there are QBs that also just suck and wash out.

If you are hell bent on assessing all the blame on the org, I'm not going to stop you. I look at the situation and think it's pretty muddy. It's a ton of different people involved over the years, but there's never been a Bears QB that left and went and lit it up somewhere else, so I'm pretty suspect of tossing all the blame on the org of developing those guys. Org obviously gets all the blame for drafting them.

-Jay Cutler was a pro bowl QB in his 3rd year before coming to the Bears, he never reached those heights again here in Chicago

trubisky was a PB QB in chicago and never reached those heights elsewhere

-Kyle Orton was better after leaving the Bears - not great, but better. Both his 2009 and 2014 seasons were better than anything he did here

he was an improving player when he left. he continued to improve...a little...for 1 more season

-Fields was better in every tangible category last year with the Steelers last year

so good he got benched for a washed 36 year old. then replaced by a washed 42 year old

are rush yds./avg. not "tangible categories" for fields? TD throws? yds. after catch?

avg. pocket time in chicago - 2.7 secs. in pitt? 2.5
air yards per completion in chi - 6.6. in pitt? 5.5

he was asked to make quick, simple decisions for the steelers. perhaps because they recognized he is not capable of more than that

dessert: you were mentioning fields's W/L a lot last season. orton's was better in chicago than after he left

[Susan]

-Jay Cutler was a pro bowl QB in his 3rd year before coming to the Bears, he never reached those heights again here in Chicago
-Kyle Orton was better after leaving the Bears - not great, but better. Both his 2009 and 2014 seasons were better than anything he did here
-Fields was better in every tangible category last year with the Steelers last year

Orton / Fields (thus far) were more or less the same player when they left. Guys can have a better or worse season based on many factors.

The thought that stability and situation are meaningless flies wildly against every common thought across the league.

Never said this, nor do I believe it. I said the situation was "muddy", and that a lousy QB will get a coaching staff fired as much as a poor coaching staff will not do a QB any favors.

In every single instance, it was extremely obvious that the Head Coach was on their way out in 2017, 2021 and 2024. The mud was already in the water and throwing a rookie QB into an already muddy situation and asking them to fix it doesn't work out.

A rookie QB had nothing to do with each head coach getting fired. The plan was for Trubisky and Fields to both sit the entire year and learn, and they were both rushed out and then both in place for the next regime to make the most out of and for the third time now - a new HC is coming in and trying to develop a 2nd year QB.

Jayden Daniels was picked by a new GM and an OC, he wasn't forced on anybody.
JJ McCarthy was picked by a HC who has had success with getting the most out of his QBs
Bo Nix was picked by a HC who's helped develop a Hall of Fame QB

The only recent instance of a second year QB having success with a new HC that I can think of is Jared Goff with McVey, and even that marriage didn't workout long term because ultimately McVey didn't pick Goff and wound up winning a Super Bowl with his guy.

Ideally - you hire Ben Johnson, let him pick his QB and let him develop that QB. That's the absolute highest % play and even still you have instances like the Trey Lance/Kyle Shanahan pick where it doesn't work out and they still found their longtime QB.

[Susan]

https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears/2025/08/14/bears-training-camp-caleb-williams-book-bill-belichick-sean-payton-concerns-usc-ryan-poles-nfl

Payton saw something similar. Despite seeing “all the elements of a prodigy, including the vibe of being a legend in his own mind,”

Payton’s worries went beyond completion percentage.

“His primary concerns with Williams are existential,” Wickersham wrote. “Williams has yet to be broken in his life.”

Payton liked Williams’ arm, but—per Wickersham—questioned the QB’s processing speed and how he’d handle failure,

"Legend in his own mind" is precisely the vibe of somebody that would re-post that video. Dude won 5 games last year.

Listen, I hope I'm wrong but to me as just a person who's been paying attention to this dude for 3+ years now it appears he completely lacks humility and shifts blame away from himself when tough times hit.

I’m not sure that I’m following here. What exactly are you talking about? Specifically as it pertains to shifting blame when times get tough? Like you said, they won 5 games last year, which would indicate some pretty tough times. But I don’t recall him shifting blame to anyone. Perhaps you might have other examples in mind though.

End of the season all of the talk from his camp was how Waldron didn't watch film with him. Waldron wasn't here for a huge chunk of the 10 game losing streak but the talk from Williams camp was just trashing the coaching staff. There were winnable games on the schedule if Williams could have played even moderately better. There were massive chemistry issues with him and DJ all year long, we don't know yet what went on behind the scenes but eventually it'll come out.

There's no tangible quotes or anything but the fact that USC finished on a 5/6 game losing streak and the Bears lost 10 of their last 11 games isn't good. A franchise QB rights the ship, sure it's not exactly fair to expect a rookie QB to do that but it's certainly not a thing I'd be overlooking when looking at him as a 1st overall pick.

[fleet]

The Bears had Henderson, or Burden as the fallback. That was a good point in the draft for them. If Burden was gone it would be curious if the Bears would have been more aggressive to trade up. The Pats were likely to have been tough to move off this guy.

Read on Twitter

[Chi town]

The Bears had Henderson, or Burden as the fallback. That was a good point in the draft for them. If Burden was gone it would be curious if the Bears would have been more aggressive to trade up. The Pats were likely to have been tough to move off this guy.

Read on Twitter

Jeanty looked the part today too.

Don’t think we will be complaining with Loveland and Burden.

We will get our RB next draft.

[dice]

-Jay Cutler was a pro bowl QB in his 3rd year before coming to the Bears, he never reached those heights again here in Chicago
-Kyle Orton was better after leaving the Bears - not great, but better. Both his 2009 and 2014 seasons were better than anything he did here
-Fields was better in every tangible category last year with the Steelers last year

Orton / Fields (thus far) were more or less the same player when they left. Guys can have a better or worse season based on many factors.

The thought that stability and situation are meaningless flies wildly against every common thought across the league.

Never said this, nor do I believe it. I said the situation was "muddy", and that a lousy QB will get a coaching staff fired as much as a poor coaching staff will not do a QB any favors.

In every single instance, it was extremely obvious that the Head Coach was on their way out in 2017, 2021 and 2024. The mud was already in the water and throwing a rookie QB into an already muddy situation and asking them to fix it doesn't work out.

flagrantly false in the last instance. 'flus was on a roll because of his defense

[Dresden]

I will be happily wrong.

How could that possibly happen though, with all the disasterous things you say are going on in the organization and the team?

The team was 5-12 and went on a 10/11 game losing streak to end the season and didn't adequately address the most important position on the OL.

I think Poles is bad and have serious doubts about Caleb in general and don't really think he's a natural fit for Ben's offense. I hope Johnson can get through to him and he's our franchise QB for the next 15 years, but it's not a foregone conclusion that this will happen.

Situation matters, having a plan and following it is key to anything in life and in each instance they had the plan blow up in their face by October.

Then the second season it's been a completely new plan with a completely new coaching staff.

It's been a complete organizational failure.

I think the Flus thing was weird last year for sure, was talking more along the lines of Trubisky / Fields development. Those guys stink, I don't think we were different organizational planning away from them being good.

With Caleb, jury is still out. Certainly hope he proves to be good.

Every year there's a QB who goes from a bad situation and establishes themselves in a good situation. 2022 it was Geno Smith, 2023 it was Baker Mayfield, 2024 it was Sam Darnold and this year it's going to be Fields.

If you go out and buy a plant but have no idea how often to water it because it's just a stupid plant and why would you look up the vital details to keep this plant alive and it dies, who's fault is it that it died? You or the plant?

So they got a new center (who was the most highly coveted player at his position in free agency) and two new guards (one of which is a likely HOF'er, the other a former pro bowler),(not to mention a new WR, a new TE, and a new RB, but that's not good enough, because they also didn't get a new LT, even though the one they have is at least average? That's ignoring all the positive things, and focusing solely on the negative, which isn't even all that negative.