Where does Sam Presti rank on all-time GM list?

[zimpy27]

He's formed 2 finals teams with completely different teammates in 18 years...

What other GMs have ever even formed 2 separate finals teams?

Pat Riley, Red Auerbach, Jerry West... Is that it?

[Mr Peanut]

He's an all-time great. Built the first OKC team from scratch and drafted three MVPs in consecutive seasons (yes they were all high picks, but then try name any other GM/team in history who has achieved that feat). The Harden trade was a blemish but he was forced to trade him due to financial directive from the owners so I think it's harsh to completely put the blame on him. KD leaving OKC for the Warriors was a b**ch move.

The subsequent Westbrook/PG years were treading water but he recognized that team was going nowhere and tore it down again. Getting the SGA/picks haul for PG was a masterstroke. His subsequent drafting and filling out the roster with cheap depth has been excellent.

I think if someone asked you if you could take any GM from the last 30 years and start a new team with said GM in their prime, who would have a good argument over Presti?

[rtiff68]

He's probably the best drafting GM already. Overall top 10. He built 2 contenders, won a title, and has drafted like ten All-Stars, including multiple All-NBA and All-Defense guys. Most of which are not very high draft picks.

As great as Presti is, I think we need a fact check here. By my count, Presti has drafted 5 players who have made at least one All Star team.

Kevin Durant (2nd overall)
Russell Westbrook (4th overall)
James Harden (3rd overall)
Domantas Sabonis (11th overall)
Jalen Williams (12th overall)

He traded for SGA and Paul George, and Chet hasn’t made an All Star team yet. Also, I don’t really give him a ton of credit for KD: everyone and their brother had that draft as a two player draft at the top, and OKC had the #2 pick. Every GM and fan in the league makes that pick at that time.

I think it’s also worth pointing out that Harden never made the All Star team as a member of the Thunder.

Once again, Presti is awesome, but saying he drafted “10 All Stars a lot of which without high picks” isn’t true.

[AleksandarN]

Hmm, well you're certainly entitled to your own opinion, but do consider:

1. Do you really think you'd think this if not for Jordan? It's not like drafting Jordan at #3 took any kind of basketball brain to do, everyone knew he was a top 2 talent in the draft. So all of the Krauss' rings primarily on the back of a guy he really doesn't deserve any credit for drafting, and he managed to make that player hate him over the course of the run.

2. Krauss really only had one successful era. Remember, he was so keen to rebuild after Jordan-Pippen to show he could do it again, and when he did so, it was an embarrassing disappointment.

Colangelo, like the other guys I listed, all proved repeatedly they could build really good teams and could do so without making the players they dislike him.

I guess Barkley doesn’t count. Also the Colangelos was a disaster in Philly. He even tried to threaten the Philly organization to protect his son who he hired and was a disaster

https://www.phillyvoice.com/sixers-fire-gm-bryan-colangelo-aftermath-burner-account-scandal/

More than one person who spoke to PhillyVoice on the condition of anonymity suggested Jerry Colangelo tried to intervene on Bryan's behalf, threatening to interfere with club relationships around the league. The Sixers, aware of Colangelo's influence around the league and his connection to numerous agents and power brokers after decades of work in basketball, opted to move forward carefully in what team sources described as a chaotic, uncertain environment.

Barkley, huh? Are you saying people thought Barkley was a better prospect than Jordan?

Re: Colangelos disaster in Philly. I thought you might be indexing on that. Just keep in mind that in Jerry Colangelo, we're talking about a guy who first became a GM before he was 30, and you're assessment of him is based on something that happened when he was more in his 70s more than a decade after he retired.

To be clear, I think it's fine to criticize Jerry for his part in what happened in Philly, but the idea that it would effectively erase the decades of previous basketball accomplishment really doesn't resonate with me.

We should also remember what actually happened with the scandal: We're talking about his wife seeking to anonymously defend her husband online, getting found out, and that ending her husband's career. Not good, but also, not really a statement about basketball expertise.

In terms of the actual basketball executive work, I do consider Bryan to have failed in both Toronto & Philly certainly, and if Jerry was involved in making specific basketball scouting decisions about Andrea Bargnani, Rudy Gay, Markelle Fultz, etc, it certainly would give reason to think that his scouting eye wasn't as sharp as it used to be... but I kinda doubt he was trying to get involved with those sort of decisions at that stage in his life.

Here's where I'll also note that Jerry was a real basketball man - college player, scout, coach, GM, before owner - while his son was merely the son of a basketball man. Often in these cases, it seems like the son can get overconfident in his own scouting eye, particularly if they've had some previous success.

But as I say all of that, we shouldn't forget that the only reason that 76ers ownership reached out to the Colangelos is that things were already a train wreck in Philly with the team in the 3rd year of a re-build that saw them getting worse every year. While the cold logic of Hinkie made sense back then (before they tinkered with the lottery odds more), he had no particular eye for basketball scouting himself, he completely ignored even trying to build a basketball team that fit together, and he did not instill a culture that trained up the young players he was banking on to become mature professionals.

Additionally, while it's find to say Hinkie did a better job of Bryan, I don't think it makes sense to say "Well, Hinkie wouldn't have done that" about the Fultz-Tatum trade because it's not like he wouldn't have wanted to go big to try to get a mega-talent and it's not like Hinkie had the capacity to realize Tatum was the actual mega-talent when most of the basketball world didn't realize it either. I think realistically, if the Colangelos never get involved with Philly, things turn out basically the same as they did, and so we should be careful about treating it like they ruined an actually well through out team-building plan simply because someone in their family did something dumb on the internet.

Barkley and Jerry hated each other. You said no one disliked Jerry Colangelo which was wrong

[-Luke-]

He's formed 2 finals teams with completely different teammates in 18 years...

What other GMs have ever even formed 2 separate finals teams?

Pat Riley, Red Auerbach, Jerry West... Is that it?

Does Danny Ainge count? He was already gone when the Celtics made the finals in 2022, but he drafted Tatum, Brown, Smart, Robert Williams, Grant Williams and Pritchard. He also made Stevens his successor who made the trade for White if I remember correctly.

[Doctor MJ]

I guess Barkley doesn’t count. Also the Colangelos was a disaster in Philly. He even tried to threaten the Philly organization to protect his son who he hired and was a disaster

https://www.phillyvoice.com/sixers-fire-gm-bryan-colangelo-aftermath-burner-account-scandal/

Barkley, huh? Are you saying people thought Barkley was a better prospect than Jordan?

Re: Colangelos disaster in Philly. I thought you might be indexing on that. Just keep in mind that in Jerry Colangelo, we're talking about a guy who first became a GM before he was 30, and you're assessment of him is based on something that happened when he was more in his 70s more than a decade after he retired.

To be clear, I think it's fine to criticize Jerry for his part in what happened in Philly, but the idea that it would effectively erase the decades of previous basketball accomplishment really doesn't resonate with me.

We should also remember what actually happened with the scandal: We're talking about his wife seeking to anonymously defend her husband online, getting found out, and that ending her husband's career. Not good, but also, not really a statement about basketball expertise.

In terms of the actual basketball executive work, I do consider Bryan to have failed in both Toronto & Philly certainly, and if Jerry was involved in making specific basketball scouting decisions about Andrea Bargnani, Rudy Gay, Markelle Fultz, etc, it certainly would give reason to think that his scouting eye wasn't as sharp as it used to be... but I kinda doubt he was trying to get involved with those sort of decisions at that stage in his life.

Here's where I'll also note that Jerry was a real basketball man - college player, scout, coach, GM, before owner - while his son was merely the son of a basketball man. Often in these cases, it seems like the son can get overconfident in his own scouting eye, particularly if they've had some previous success.

But as I say all of that, we shouldn't forget that the only reason that 76ers ownership reached out to the Colangelos is that things were already a train wreck in Philly with the team in the 3rd year of a re-build that saw them getting worse every year. While the cold logic of Hinkie made sense back then (before they tinkered with the lottery odds more), he had no particular eye for basketball scouting himself, he completely ignored even trying to build a basketball team that fit together, and he did not instill a culture that trained up the young players he was banking on to become mature professionals.

Additionally, while it's find to say Hinkie did a better job of Bryan, I don't think it makes sense to say "Well, Hinkie wouldn't have done that" about the Fultz-Tatum trade because it's not like he wouldn't have wanted to go big to try to get a mega-talent and it's not like Hinkie had the capacity to realize Tatum was the actual mega-talent when most of the basketball world didn't realize it either. I think realistically, if the Colangelos never get involved with Philly, things turn out basically the same as they did, and so we should be careful about treating it like they ruined an actually well through out team-building plan simply because someone in their family did something dumb on the internet.

Barkley and Jerry hated each other. You said no one disliked Jerry Colangelo which was wrong

I didn’t say no one disliked Colangelo, I talked about how Krause made the key talent on his big success hate him, which is really, really weird.

Regarding the Barkley-Colangelo relationship, my understanding is that Barkley’s beef was about how Colangelo went about trading him away. So correct me if I’m wrong on that, but just generally, it’s pretty normal for the relationship between player and GM to dip at the end of the relationship.

What makes the Krause situation different is that alienated his stars years earlier. Like, when Jordan and Pippen made a point to humiliated Kukoc in the 1992 Olympics, it was because of the things Krause had said prior to that point.

What kind of ego-drive. fool alienates his stars years earlier player when that guy will continue to be the best player in the world for more than another half decade? Basically just Krause.

We can consider criticism for how to handle Colangelo trading Barkley away, but we should also keep in mind that it was Colangelo trading for Barkley that gave Barkley the chance to lead a contender in his prime and by the time he was traded away, he was very much on the back end of his career.


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[Doctor MJ]

He did amazing job building a team twice, but 1 title in 20 years is simply not enough to be considered all time great.

I wouldn’t recommend ring counting based ranking for players, coaches, GMs, owners, hot dog vendors, etc.


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[UcanUwill]

He did amazing job building a team twice, but 1 title in 20 years is simply not enough to be considered all time great.

I wouldn’t recommend ring counting based ranking for players, coaches, GMs, owners, hot dog vendors, etc.


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Well, the goal for GM is to build a championship team.

[The Servant]

Presti has not drafted particularly well outside the top 5 and he made one of the worst trades of all-time in trading Harden for essentially nothing. Then lost KD for nothing then proceeded to build a team around a flawed Westbrook for 4 years before being bailed out by the Clippers.

Presti is definitely a good GM but to be considered one of the best, you need to hit on picks outside of the top 5. His team without SGA would be a middling squad as well. Clippers played a big role in his recent success.

Serge Ibaka: 24th pick
Reggie Jackson: 24th pick
Steven Adams: 12th pick
Aaron Wiggins: 55th pick
Josh Giddey: 6th pick
Jaylin Williams: 34th pick
Jalen Williams: 12th pick

Some decent value there, outside the fact he's drafted 3 MVPs, 2 of which won during their time with OKC, and traded for a prospect that would become MVP.

To say "bailed out by the Clippers" is kind of jokes considering Presti made trades and acquired a player who finished 3rd in MVP voting and 3rd Dpoy voting the year before he was traded for a haul that became a championship core.

[Doctor MJ]

He did amazing job building a team twice, but 1 title in 20 years is simply not enough to be considered all time great.

I wouldn’t recommend ring counting based ranking for players, coaches, GMs, owners, hot dog vendors, etc.


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Well, the goal for GM is to build a championship team.

As it is for players, coaches, and owners, but we don't expect to be able to understand what was special about any of these guys by going and looking at their ring count.

I mentioned Jerry Colangelo - which it seems like nobody agrees with because they're just going by the one scandal they remember - who of course, never had a champion team... but had he won the coin flip to get Kareem instead of the Bucks, things would have been different from the jump, and yet he would still be the same GM.

To be clear, I do judge all of the people in these roles based on whether what they are doing is compatible with winning championships - if they are lowering ceilings that hurts them a lot on a list like this - but that doesn't mean that all quality work leads to a title.

General rule: Anyone who thinks the best basketball player, or coach, or GM, simply can't NOT win a championship in their career is treating the game like it's an individual sport rather than the team sport it is, and they are literally avoiding thinking about the stuff that great coaches & GMs spend all their time actually doing.

[Doctor MJ]

Presti has not drafted particularly well outside the top 5 and he made one of the worst trades of all-time in trading Harden for essentially nothing. Then lost KD for nothing then proceeded to build a team around a flawed Westbrook for 4 years before being bailed out by the Clippers.

Presti is definitely a good GM but to be considered one of the best, you need to hit on picks outside of the top 5. His team without SGA would be a middling squad as well. Clippers played a big role in his recent success.

Serge Ibaka: 24th pick
Reggie Jackson: 24th pick
Steven Adams: 12th pick
Aaron Wiggins: 55th pick
Josh Giddey: 6th pick
Jaylin Williams: 34th pick
Jalen Williams: 12th pick

Some decent value there, outside the fact he's drafted 3 MVPs, 2 of which won during their time with OKC, and traded for a prospect that would become MVP.

To say "bailed out by the Clippers" is kind of jokes considering Presti made trades and acquired a player who finished 3rd in MVP voting and 3rd Dpoy voting the year before he was traded for a haul that became a championship core.

Yup. Presti has a long track record of drafting well lower in the draft.

Further, while I used to be more critical of Presti for the coaches he hired (Brooks, Donovan), what he's done in elevating the previously unknown Mark Daigneault to eventually become his head coach is exactly the type of thing I want to see from a GM who actually understands how to evaluate coaches.

It's possible that 20 years from now Daigneault will be elsewhere and all subsequent Thunder coaches will be awful of course, and in which case my evaluation of Presti will drop some, but there are a lot of franchises whose coach selection largely amount to hiring names and keeping them until they need a scapegoat (Doc Rivers is still coaching in 2025!), and Presti has now differentiated himself on this front like the guys I consider to be all-time great GMs generally do.

[UcanUwill]

I wouldn’t recommend ring counting based ranking for players, coaches, GMs, owners, hot dog vendors, etc.


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Well, the goal for GM is to build a championship team.

As it is for players, coaches, and owners, but we don't expect to be able to understand what was special about any of these guys by going and looking at their ring count.

I mentioned Jerry Colangelo - which it seems like nobody agrees with because they're just going by the one scandal they remember - who of course, never had a champion team... but had he won the coin flip to get Kareem instead of the Bucks, things would have been different from the jump, and yet he would still be the same GM.

To be clear, I do judge all of the people in these roles based on whether what they are doing is compatible with winning championships - if they are lowering ceilings that hurts them a lot on a list like this - but that doesn't mean that all quality work leads to a title.

General rule: Anyone who thinks the best basketball player, or coach, or GM, simply can't NOT win a championship in their career is treating the game like it's an individual sport rather than the team sport it is, and they are literally avoiding thinking about the stuff that great coaches & GMs spend all their time actually doing.

GMs, players, coaches, owners all can only do as much as their roles allow, GM has the most input on the team success as he is the one that puts together entirety of a team, so team success is incredibly important part on determining which GMs were the greatest. It is possible to be good GM with cheap owner who will never allow GM to be successful, but being good considering circumstances does not put you into goat conversations, you need success to be there.
To me it is asinine to suggest that ring count is not part on determining greatest GMs, thats ridiculous statement on all accounts. Greatest is not the same as the best even, same goes for everyone like players, Player can be the best but if he wont win, he will never be the greatest. Greatness is reached by winning.

Maybe I am misunderstood the thread, because I thought this was about GOAT GM list, not best gm list, I could be wrong. If we are talking about best GMs, Presti is definitely a very very good GM, best GM currently active, not sure about all time, but maybe it is semantics.

[zimpy27]

He's formed 2 finals teams with completely different teammates in 18 years...

What other GMs have ever even formed 2 separate finals teams?

Pat Riley, Red Auerbach, Jerry West... Is that it?

Does Danny Ainge count? He was already gone when the Celtics made the finals in 2022, but he drafted Tatum, Brown, Smart, Robert Williams, Grant Williams and Pritchard. He also made Stevens his successor who made the trade for White if I remember correctly.

No I don't think he got there. I actually think he fumbled that squad by not surrounding them with better players earlier. They could have been in the finals from 2019 onwards.

[Doctor MJ]

Well, the goal for GM is to build a championship team.

As it is for players, coaches, and owners, but we don't expect to be able to understand what was special about any of these guys by going and looking at their ring count.

I mentioned Jerry Colangelo - which it seems like nobody agrees with because they're just going by the one scandal they remember - who of course, never had a champion team... but had he won the coin flip to get Kareem instead of the Bucks, things would have been different from the jump, and yet he would still be the same GM.

To be clear, I do judge all of the people in these roles based on whether what they are doing is compatible with winning championships - if they are lowering ceilings that hurts them a lot on a list like this - but that doesn't mean that all quality work leads to a title.

General rule: Anyone who thinks the best basketball player, or coach, or GM, simply can't NOT win a championship in their career is treating the game like it's an individual sport rather than the team sport it is, and they are literally avoiding thinking about the stuff that great coaches & GMs spend all their time actually doing.

GMs, players, coaches, owners all can only do as much as their roles allow, GM has the most input on the team success as he is the one that puts together entirety of a team, so team success is incredibly important part on determining which GMs were the greatest. It is possible to be good GM with cheap owner who will never allow GM to be successful, but being good considering circumstances does not put you into goat conversations, you need success to be there.
To me it is asinine to suggest that ring count is not part on determining greatest GMs, thats ridiculous statement on all accounts. Greatest is not the same as the best even, same goes for everyone like players, Player can be the best but if he wont win, he will never be the greatest. Greatness is reached by winning.

Maybe I am misunderstood the thread, because I thought this was about GOAT GM list, not best gm list, I could be wrong. If we are talking about best GMs, Presti is definitely a very very good GM, best GM currently active, not sure about all time, but maybe it is semantics.

So, you do you, but I’ll just say that I never use ring counting based ranking as an explicit factor for anything except evaluating franchises (Lakers and Celtics are the GOAT NBA franchises because of it.)

To me, analysis of individuals is about identifying what led to winning rather than the raw counts.


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[kenwood3333]

He is operating a team without a deep pocket owner in a non attractive city for free agents. I don't think any GM can do as good a job as he has done.
If he is in big market team/city, he would likely be much more successful.

[Daddy 801]

Not voting but he’s the best in the game right now. And has been even prior to winning the chip.

He is the best GM because he tanked right. Something that won’t sit right with a lot of people.

[Capn'O]

I'd be lying if I said I kept such a list but there's no active executive I'd rather have running my team.

[Los_29]

Presti has not drafted particularly well outside the top 5 and he made one of the worst trades of all-time in trading Harden for essentially nothing. Then lost KD for nothing then proceeded to build a team around a flawed Westbrook for 4 years before being bailed out by the Clippers.

Presti is definitely a good GM but to be considered one of the best, you need to hit on picks outside of the top 5. His team without SGA would be a middling squad as well. Clippers played a big role in his recent success.

Serge Ibaka: 24th pick
Reggie Jackson: 24th pick
Steven Adams: 12th pick
Aaron Wiggins: 55th pick
Josh Giddey: 6th pick
Jaylin Williams: 34th pick
Jalen Williams: 12th pick

Some decent value there, outside the fact he's drafted 3 MVPs, 2 of which won during their time with OKC, and traded for a prospect that would become MVP.

To say "bailed out by the Clippers" is kind of jokes considering Presti made trades and acquired a player who finished 3rd in MVP voting and 3rd Dpoy voting the year before he was traded for a haul that became a championship core.

From 2010-2020, Presti ranked near the bottom in drafting. I wouldn’t rate Giddey as a great pick at 6. Franz has been much better. Jaylin Williams is solid at 34. If you get a rotation player in that range you did well.

He was absolutely bailed out by the Clippers. It was an all-time great haul that he walked into.

[pepe1991]

Last several years, especially after new CBA dropped with aprons, he has been 3 steps ahead of everybody else, also that picks hording and ability to find talent where others can't is on whole different level.

Once he steps down, he will be considered one of greatest ever at his job. For whole Harden thing, he didn't drop Harden because he didn't found him talented, but because OKC ownership couldn't ( didn't want ) to pay tax.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Curious how folks think he stacks up.

Too early to say imo.

after 18 years?