Who is the greatest passer in NBA History?

[Mean_Streets]

I'm talking more as a pure passer in terms of court vision, not necessarily playmaking where a player draws the defense and makes a simple read. For example, LeBron is a superior playmaker than Bird, but Bird overall had better court vision and made more creative passes (Although LeBron wasn't too far behind). Stockton for the most part was making effective simple passes and was not turning heads with his court vision.

[kcktiny]

Stockton for the most part was making effective simple passes and was not turning heads with his court vision.

Dumb.

You have absolutely no idea who John Stockton was as a player.

Nobody - I repeat nobody - put the ball where it had to be, when it had to be there, better than he did. The definition of a pinpoint passer.

You won't turn your head at his passing because you won't watch it.

Purest - and greatest - passer in terms of court vision there ever was.

And he did this without committing lots of turnovers. Learn some league history - Stockton threw for 950+ assists in a season 8 times, yet only once committed 300+ turnovers. All other players throwing for 950+ assists in a season all committed 300+ turnovers (when they were tracked).

Try educating yourself:

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[vege]

John Stockton.

/thread.

[Rauxcee]

Stockton not being an option on this poll is a choice. An incorrect one, but still a choice.

[Optimus_Steel]

Ricky Davis

[azcatz11]

Stockton not being an option on this poll is a choice. An incorrect one, but still a choice.

It's another thread to trash Stockton

[Ritzo]

Pistol Pete had no reference for his creativity in passing and dribbling, he had to invent them on his own. One of the few old heads I truly respect. Magic Johnson also said he was inspired by Pistol Pete and he copied a lot of his moves.

[Mean_Streets]

From Ben Taylor aka Thinkingbasketball. Former realgm poster.

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Watch on YouTube

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Watch on YouTube

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Watch on YouTube

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In my tracking sample, Stockton hit 3.5 “good” or “great” passes per 100 possessions — a formidable clip for his era, behind only Magic and Bird among ’80s and ’90s players on this list. However, he also missed an elite pass once per 100, leaving points on the scoreboard that the best passers would have found.

As a result of all this, his creation rates appear significantly lower than what his Box Creation predicts. He was an anomaly, a player functionally closer to Brevin Knight who had the ball so much and shot just enough 3-pointers to trip up the creation estimate. It’s almost as if Stockton should be a significantly larger offensive mass, but isn’t.

Overall, he was a very good, but not great passer. He uncorked a number of quality assists per game, but he missed too many elite passes. [/QUOTE]

[kcktiny]

From Ben Taylor aka Thinking basketball. Former realgm poster.

Are you serious?

You just posted 3 minutes of video of an NBA HOF player - doing what? missing passes? - that played 54,000+ minutes in the NBA and is the league's all-time assists leader, a record that may very well never be broken, to prove just exactly what?

leaving points on the scoreboard that the best passers would have found... his creation rates appear significantly lower than what his Box Creation predicts... a player functionally closer to Brevin Knight... It’s almost as if Stockton should be a significantly larger offensive mass, but isn’t.

My god talk about being laughable beyond belief.

In the 16 years (1987-88 to 2002-03) Stockton was the starting PG for Utah, the Jazz as a team were first in the league in highest 2pt FG% (49.9%), and 3rd as a team in offensive efficiency (107.7 pts/100poss allowed), and he threw for 3896 more assists than did any other player in the league during that time.

Go find something better to do with your time than bash one of the all-time NBA greats with 3 minutes of nonsense.

[Mean_Streets]

From Ben Taylor aka Thinking basketball. Former realgm poster.

Are you serious?

You just posted 3 minutes of video of an NBA HOF player - doing what? missing passes? - that played 54,000+ minutes in the NBA and is the league's all-time assists leader, a record that may very well never be broken, to prove just exactly what?

In my tracking sample, Stockton hit 3.5 “good” or “great” passes per 100 possessions — a formidable clip for his era, behind only Magic and Bird among ’80s and ’90s players on this list. However, he also missed an elite pass once per 100, leaving points on the scoreboard that the best passers would have found. - Ben Taylor

It's no secret Stockton wasn't a flashy passer, he more often than not made the right pass, but when you watch passes from the other guys in my poll you go "How did he see him??", Stockton obviously lacked the top tier court vision of the GOAT level best, most of his assists were more "Rondo" level in that he mostly made simple/good passes, but didn't exactly give you elite passes on a common basis.

Look at Stockton's passing highlights and compare it to Nash/Kidd, it's pretty obvious Stockton was a tier below them in terms of court vision.

[Optms]

Never saw Larry but just in terms of pure passing the way OP described, Steve Nash is the one.

[Mavrelous]

Man, I was a Nash stan, but no way I'd put him over Kidd in creative, thread the needle passing.

[RHODEY]

This list is like asking who the GOAT is and leaving Jordan off the list. OP please put Stockton on this list so I can vote for him.

[Synciere]

Kidd.

And it’s not close.

[Black Jack]

It's Magic, let's not overthink things here.

Stockton, Jokic, Bird, Kidd, Nash are all acceptable choices though.

I didn't see Oscar so can't assess but he should be in the mix too.

[Lalouie]

jokic was the best,,,,,, FOR A CENTER

1...magic
2...bird

[og15]

While I wouldn't choose Stockton, him not being an option is obviously OP trying to hate on Stockton and since OP also made the Stockton overrated defender thread, seems like some vendetta lol

[Peregrine01]

I’ve never seen a better passer than Jokic. But he lacks the ball handling of the elite guards on this list so that will be held against him.

[Domejandro]

I want to give a shoutout to Bob Cousy. What he was able to accomplish as a passer and ball-handler (despite strict palming/carrying rules) was absolutely exceptional. The fact that he was doing this sixty-to-seventy years ago is unreal.

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[kcktiny]

I want to give a shoutout to Bob Cousy. What he was able to accomplish as a passer and ball-handler

He was a passing savant.

From 1951-52 to 1962-63 Cousy passed for 6604 assists when no other player in the league passed for more than 3500.

It's amazing that during that time he threw for 7.8 ast/g (8.8 ast/40min) considering the entire league shot less than 40% on 2s. Lead the league in assists 8 straight seasons (1952-53 to 1959-60).

Up to 1960 had thrown for the 5 highest assists totals in a single NBA season.