Official Trade Thread Part XLVII

[payitforward]

Your sense of humor is admirable JAR...

[nate33]

Since it is dead season, here is a trade for everyone to hate. In fact, two versions:

To WAS: Kuzma, 2031 FRP swap rights
To MIL: McCollum
(This works in the both the Spotrac and RealGM trade checkers)

or

To WAS: Kuzma, minimum filler (AJ Green or Andre Jackson), 2031 MIL FRP
To MIL: McCollum, AJ Johnson
(This would likely need to be two separate trades, but that's fine)

Wizards acquire a potentially highly valuable post-Giannis FRP or swap. The cost is Kuzma's $20.3 million in 26-27. We also lose CJ, who is likely a better team vet than Kuzma, who seemingly interefered with development of several players when he was here. There are ways to remedy that. Kuzma helps the tank more, and might be traded yet again for something. AJJ is fun and I'm a fan, but he's not likely to develop into a key piece.

MIL acquires a floor spacer and good teammate for Giannis. With the East wide open this year, this would help them have a real shot of getting to the finals. And in the second iteration, they get back a young player they bleated about losing in the last Kuzma trade.

Have at it. There are lots of reasons not to do this. But I'm looking at the long-term future, and getting MIL's 2031 pick (either outright or swapped) moved us further into OKC draft capital acquisition territory.

The pick is valuable and we can always waive Kuz. It will cost us the remainder of his contract but if he's stinting the development of young players, then it would be worth the money cost. On the flip side, we lose the ability to use all that cap space next season.

I don't think an expiring CJ is worth it to Milwaukee though.

Exactly. Milwaukee isn't stupid. They know full well that that 2031 pick being swapped away is very likely to be disastrous for them. The minor upgrade from McCollum to Kuzma improves them from 43 wins to maybe 47 wins. They're not giving up a potential high lotto pick for that.

[nate33]

While messing around with Josh Giddey trade ideas, It came to my attention that our hands are tied for any trade scenarios involving McCollum, Branham, Jones or Whitmore because we acquired them recently. However, those restrictions expire on September 9th.

So, although nothing seems to be happening right now, it's not out of the realm of possibility that management pulls off a significant move in early September.

[penbeast0]

I don't want to trade for anyone who doesn't work on defense. IF we are going to build an identity around who we have, Giddey is a shaky choice as he doesn't provide either defense or spacing consistently. If the front office thinks those factors will change, he's a capable playmaker with great size who can get his shot in the midrange or at the hoop but I'd be skeptical.

That's why I'm more on the Kuminga wagon because I think he's more likely to buy into a defensive mind set even though he doesn't look like a particularly heady player. OF course, it would be nice if Bub and Cam got the 3 point shot and defensive effort down respectively. Then we don't have to make a deal.

[nate33]

I don't want to trade for anyone who doesn't work on defense. IF we are going to build an identity around who we have, Giddey is a shaky choice as he doesn't provide either defense or spacing consistently. If the front office thinks those factors will change, he's a capable playmaker with great size who can get his shot in the midrange or at the hoop but I'd be skeptical.

That's why I'm more on the Kuminga wagon because I think he's more likely to buy into a defensive mind set even though he doesn't look like a particularly heady player. OF course, it would be nice if Bub and Cam got the 3 point shot and defensive effort down respectively. Then we don't have to make a deal.

I'm not particularly enthusiastic about Giddey either. If we could get him for almost nothing (the OKC pick), and if he was signed to a 3-year deal at $25M or less, I'd think about it. If it didn't work out, he would be off the books before the 2024 draft class rookie contracts are up.

I do prefer him over Kuminga because at least Giddey is nominally a point guard where there are minutes available. A 3-guard rotation of Giddey, Bub and Tre works for me.

Kuminga would only take minutes from some other developing prospect of similar talent level (Bilal, Whitmore or Kyshawn) so its questionable whether he helps the team at all.

[payitforward]

While messing around with Josh Giddey trade ideas, It came to my attention that our hands are tied for any trade scenarios involving McCollum, Branham, Jones or Whitmore because we acquired them recently. However, those restrictions expire on September 9th.

So, although nothing seems to be happening right now, it's not out of the realm of possibility that management pulls off a significant move in early September.

Great!
I can't imagine we'll move Cam, but we might very well put ourselves in the mix for Giddey, which would be great.

While on the subject, the one move we made that I cannot understand was the trade of Colby Jones for Dillon Jones (and what will be a very low R2 pick). I guess it's just a question of DJ's development, so we'll see, but I thought CJ played well for us....

[JAR69]

Your sense of humor is admirable JAR...

I'm stuck with dad jokes and sarcasm in real life, so I thought I'd go for insult comic here.

[JAR69]

Since it is dead season, here is a trade for everyone to hate. In fact, two versions:

To WAS: Kuzma, 2031 FRP swap rights
To MIL: McCollum
(This works in the both the Spotrac and RealGM trade checkers)

or

To WAS: Kuzma, minimum filler (AJ Green or Andre Jackson), 2031 MIL FRP
To MIL: McCollum, AJ Johnson
(This would likely need to be two separate trades, but that's fine)

Wizards acquire a potentially highly valuable post-Giannis FRP or swap. The cost is Kuzma's $20.3 million in 26-27. We also lose CJ, who is likely a better team vet than Kuzma, who seemingly interefered with development of several players when he was here. There are ways to remedy that. Kuzma helps the tank more, and might be traded yet again for something. AJJ is fun and I'm a fan, but he's not likely to develop into a key piece.

MIL acquires a floor spacer and good teammate for Giannis. With the East wide open this year, this would help them have a real shot of getting to the finals. And in the second iteration, they get back a young player they bleated about losing in the last Kuzma trade.

Have at it. There are lots of reasons not to do this. But I'm looking at the long-term future, and getting MIL's 2031 pick (either outright or swapped) moved us further into OKC draft capital acquisition territory.

The pick is valuable and we can always waive Kuz. It will cost us the remainder of his contract but if he's stinting the development of young players, then it would be worth the money cost. On the flip side, we lose the ability to use all that cap space next season.

I don't think an expiring CJ is worth it to Milwaukee though.

Exactly. Milwaukee isn't stupid. They know full well that that 2031 pick being swapped away is very likely to be disastrous for them. The minor upgrade from McCollum to Kuzma improves them from 43 wins to maybe 47 wins. They're not giving up a potential high lotto pick for that.

Probably right. Though Milwaukee is going for it now. Can they get someone better than McCollum for Kuzma + the 2031 swap? Probably. But I wouldn't rule out them trading the pick to upgrade if they think they have a realistic shot at the finals. And there may not be a lot of teams with a floor spacer like McCollum who are willing to part with him and take on Kuzma's deal.

Is Kuzma's cafe in Dupont Circle still open?

[AFM]

The pick is valuable and we can always waive Kuz. It will cost us the remainder of his contract but if he's stinting the development of young players, then it would be worth the money cost. On the flip side, we lose the ability to use all that cap space next season.

I don't think an expiring CJ is worth it to Milwaukee though.

Exactly. Milwaukee isn't stupid. They know full well that that 2031 pick being swapped away is very likely to be disastrous for them. The minor upgrade from McCollum to Kuzma improves them from 43 wins to maybe 47 wins. They're not giving up a potential high lotto pick for that.

Probably right. Though Milwaukee is going for it now. Can they get someone better than McCollum for Kuzma + the 2031 swap? Probably. But I wouldn't rule out them trading the pick to upgrade if they think they have a realistic shot at the finals. And there may not be a lot of teams with a floor spacer like McCollum who are willing to part with him and take on Kuzma's deal.

Is Kuzma's cafe in Dupont Circle still open?

Yes and its very popular

[dorianwrite]

Exactly. Milwaukee isn't stupid. They know full well that that 2031 pick being swapped away is very likely to be disastrous for them. The minor upgrade from McCollum to Kuzma improves them from 43 wins to maybe 47 wins. They're not giving up a potential high lotto pick for that.

Probably right. Though Milwaukee is going for it now. Can they get someone better than McCollum for Kuzma + the 2031 swap? Probably. But I wouldn't rule out them trading the pick to upgrade if they think they have a realistic shot at the finals. And there may not be a lot of teams with a floor spacer like McCollum who are willing to part with him and take on Kuzma's deal.

Is Kuzma's cafe in Dupont Circle still open?

Yes and its very popular

Completely inexplicable. Folks should instead support Three Fifty at its new location or go further down the street to Java House.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

While messing around with Josh Giddey trade ideas, It came to my attention that our hands are tied for any trade scenarios involving McCollum, Branham, Jones or Whitmore because we acquired them recently. However, those restrictions expire on September 9th.

So, although nothing seems to be happening right now, it's not out of the realm of possibility that management pulls off a significant move in early September.

Great!
I can't imagine we'll move Cam, but we might very well put ourselves in the mix for Giddey, which would be great.

While on the subject, the one move we made that I cannot understand was the trade of Colby Jones for Dillon Jones (and what will be a very low R2 pick). I guess it's just a question of DJ's development, so we'll see, but I thought CJ played well for us....

Something like Kispert, Branham, AJ + 2026 1st (OKC) would work for me.

I'd be intrigued with a Giddy, Tre, Bub backcourt, with a Bilal, Kyshawn, Cam frontcourt, and Sarr at center as a foundation to build on, with our hopefully top 3 pick in '26.

Sign Giddy to something like 4 yr/28 per (TO on yr 4)... Losing Kispert (4 yr/14 per) plus AJ (3/3) , only adding an extra 11 mil per yr to the payroll for Giddy with all the cap room we're opening up next season that's peanuts.

[payitforward]

Doesn't seem nearly enough value to get Giddy in return....

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Doesn't seem nearly enough value to get Giddy in return....

They get a couple.good shooters in Kispert and Branham, a high upside prospect in AJ Johnson, and a 1st round pick. It worked in the trade checker. Wizards give up some young talent that probably don't necessarily fit in their long term plans, Bulls might be a better fit for them, and vice versa.

We can also throw in a '26 2nd rounder (we have 4 of them!)...

Not sure what other offers they're getting for him.


Did you have something else in mind?

[payitforward]

I don't, but I wish I did -- I like Giddey a lot. Would love to see him in a Wizards uni.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

I don't, but I wish I did -- I like Giddey a lot. Would love to see him in a Wizards uni.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[nate33]

Doesn't seem nearly enough value to get Giddy in return....

I actually think it might be too much.

I really don't like the idea of Giddey on a $28M-a-year contract. I really think Giddey is a "good player on a bad team" type of guy. I don't think his talent is cumulative with other good players. He needs the ball to be effective, but he is not effective enough with the ball to ensure top level team offense, and he is not good enough off ball to support other, better on-ball players.

I also am suspicious about his rebounding. He is an opportunistic rebounder who seems to grab the easy board generated by his teammates boxing out, partially due to him not having any responsibility to leak out for fast breaks (since he is the guy who brings the ball up the court). I don't see him grabbing a lot of "man rebounds" in traffic. I note that he his presence had virtually no effect on his team's rebounding percentage when he played in OKC (+0.1% TRB% and +0.5% TRB% in his last 2 years there), and had only a marginally positive effect in Chicago (+1.7% TRB%). For comparison, Avdija boosted Portland's team rebounding percentage by a whopping 4.4% and Washington's by 3.2%.

If we could get Giddey for something in the $20M a year range without giving up too much, I might consider it, mostly because he is still quite young. But I would mostly be looking to buy low in the event that Chicago really just didn't want to pay him and was basically looking for anything they could get in a S&T rather than let Giddey walk for nothing. In that scenario, I'd probably throw them the 2026 OKC pick and superfluous filler like Kispert.

[JAR69]

Doesn't seem nearly enough value to get Giddy in return....

I actually think it might be too much.

I really don't like the idea of Giddey on a $28M-a-year contract. I really think Giddey is a "good player on a bad team" type of guy. I don't think his talent is cumulative with other good players. He needs the ball to be effective, but he is not effective enough with the ball to ensure top level team offense, and he is not good enough off ball to support other, better on-ball players.

I also am suspicious about his rebounding. He is an opportunistic rebounder who seems to grab the easy board generated by his teammates boxing out, partially due to him not having any responsibility to leak out for fast breaks (since he is the guy who brings the ball up the court). I don't see him grabbing a lot of "man rebounds" in traffic. I note that he his presence had virtually no effect on his team's rebounding percentage when he played in OKC (+0.1% TRB% and +0.5% TRB% in his last 2 years there), and had only a marginally positive effect in Chicago (+1.7% TRB%). For comparison, Avdija boosted Portland's team rebounding percentage by a whopping 4.4% and Washington's by 3.2%.

If we could get Giddey for something in the $20M a year range without giving up too much, I might consider it, mostly because he is still quite young. But I would mostly be looking to buy low in the event that Chicago really just didn't want to pay him and was basically looking for anything they could get in a S&T rather than let Giddey walk for nothing. In that scenario, I'd probably throw them the 2026 OKC pick and superfluous filler like Kispert.

I nominate Man Rebounds to be the next advanced stat. And derivatives like Man Rebound Percentage.

They have shooting stats based on closest defender. So they should be able to do rebounding stats based on the closest opponent (which is the first way I thought to measure, but there could be others).

Now that I've written that, I'm worried about getting into a pronouns-like political discussion on this thread, which I very much don't want to trigger. Maybe call them Tough Rebounds or Contested Rebounds.

[nate33]

Doesn't seem nearly enough value to get Giddy in return....

I actually think it might be too much.

I really don't like the idea of Giddey on a $28M-a-year contract. I really think Giddey is a "good player on a bad team" type of guy. I don't think his talent is cumulative with other good players. He needs the ball to be effective, but he is not effective enough with the ball to ensure top level team offense, and he is not good enough off ball to support other, better on-ball players.

I also am suspicious about his rebounding. He is an opportunistic rebounder who seems to grab the easy board generated by his teammates boxing out, partially due to him not having any responsibility to leak out for fast breaks (since he is the guy who brings the ball up the court). I don't see him grabbing a lot of "man rebounds" in traffic. I note that he his presence had virtually no effect on his team's rebounding percentage when he played in OKC (+0.1% TRB% and +0.5% TRB% in his last 2 years there), and had only a marginally positive effect in Chicago (+1.7% TRB%). For comparison, Avdija boosted Portland's team rebounding percentage by a whopping 4.4% and Washington's by 3.2%.

If we could get Giddey for something in the $20M a year range without giving up too much, I might consider it, mostly because he is still quite young. But I would mostly be looking to buy low in the event that Chicago really just didn't want to pay him and was basically looking for anything they could get in a S&T rather than let Giddey walk for nothing. In that scenario, I'd probably throw them the 2026 OKC pick and superfluous filler like Kispert.

I nominate Man Rebounds to be the next advanced stat. And derivatives like Man Rebound Percentage.

They have shooting stats based on closest defender. So they should be able to do rebounding stats based on the closest opponent (which is the first way I thought to measure, but there could be others).

Now that I've written that, I'm worried about getting into a pronouns-like political discussion on this thread, which I very much don't want to trigger. Maybe call them Tough Rebounds or Contested Rebounds.

This is a great idea!

[payitforward]

Agreed.... &, really, "Contested Rebounds" is more to the point -- otherwise, what are they going to call them in the WNBA? ---

[JAR69]

Agreed.... &, really, "Contested Rebounds" is more to the point -- otherwise, what are they going to call them in the WNBA? ---

Exactly the thought that prompted me to abandon the original title. "Contested" works.