Collin Murray-Boyles Thread

[tsherkin]

Anyways hyped about this kid. He has alot of potential and I think alot of people are going to be surprised on how much basketball IQ he has.

He does seem to be pretty in tune with what's going on and what he needs to do, where he needs to be. It's a nice change of pace.

[dballislife]

hes already our best big man defender not starting, could be first big off bench 10-20 games in, if poeltl missing time he could be starting if he plays well i think mamu makes more sense as offensive spark off bench

[Thaddy]

The expectations for someone younger than Gradey are too high. I don't think he'll be a positive defender right away, NBA players know how to use their size better than college prospects and CMB is going to need to adjust.

[HangTime]

The expectations for someone younger than Gradey are too high. I don't think he'll be a positive defender right away, NBA players know how to use their size better than college prospects and CMB is going to need to adjust.

I see him as a positive from day 1.
If you look at the box score, you may not get the flashy numbers right away.
But if you're watching the game, you'll see the impact.

[Thaddy]

The expectations for someone younger than Gradey are too high. I don't think he'll be a positive defender right away, NBA players know how to use their size better than college prospects and CMB is going to need to adjust.

I see him as a positive from day 1.
If you look at the box score, you may not get the flashy numbers right away.
But if you're watching the game, you'll see the impact.

We have a lot of these invisible contributors. From Barnes, Poeltl, Mogbo, Dick and others. I don't mean that in a bad way either. CMB isn't going to be a good fit and that'll make him look worse than if he was on a great spacing team. The back up PF will emerge between him and Mogbo and it will be dependent on who's the better shooter.

[no dice]

Would a 8pt 5rb 3 ast 1 st line be realistic for him?

[Young Moosehead]

Would a 8pt 5rb 3 ast 1 st line be realistic for him?

The assists are a little high, last year only rookie guards were getting 3 or more. But I think otherwise those are some reasonable expectations. Good rookies on squads where there are not a ton of minutes usually only get a shot to average 8-10 pts a game. Its tough for rookie forwards to get more than 5 boards unless they get starting minutes, which CMB is not expected to get.

However if his shooting is better than we hoped, and the injuries are as bad as some people seem to expect/fear they could be... Who knows?

[tsherkin]

Would a 8pt 5rb 3 ast 1 st line be realistic for him?

Depends on how many minutes he gets. 3 AST seems a little high, given how much usage he probably won't have and that he'll likely top out at 20 mpg. 8/5 seems pretty reasonable otherwise.

[YogurtProducer]

Would a 8pt 5rb 3 ast 1 st line be realistic for him?

Depends on how many minutes he gets. 3 AST seems a little high, given how much usage he probably won't have and that he'll likely top out at 20 mpg. 8/5 seems pretty reasonable otherwise.

I expect 18mpg or so?

8/5 would be pretty crazy as that would translate to 16/10 per 36 and IDK if he is gonna be a 10rpg guy but maybe he will be.

I compared Scottie and CMB per 40 minuts in college.

CMB - 22/11/3/2/2 - 63TS%
Scottie - 17/7/7/2/1 - 54TS%

I guess I didn't realize how productive CMB was in college.

[tsherkin]

8/5 would be pretty crazy as that would translate to 16/10 per 36 and IDK if he is gonna be a 10rpg guy but maybe he will be.

I compared Scottie and CMB per 40 minuts in college.

CMB - 22/11/3/2/2 - 63TS%
Scottie - 17/7/7/2/1 - 54TS%

I guess I didn't realize how productive CMB was in college.

We'll see how it goes. I don't know that I expect quite that level of rebounding, but he's a tough player with solid physical tools and good instincts. If that's his focus, I can imagine lower-minute production being higher than we might see at 30+ mpg, you know? Or he could just be an awesome rebounder.

We've seen strong-body rebounders before, and while he isn't quite built like Etan Thomas/Reggie Evans/Dannie Fortson, he's also not a ton smaller than a young Dennis Rodman. Less athletic, but still, you know? Rodman was a 7/4 guy as a rookie in 15 mpg, and while of course he's among the GOAT rebounders in league history, limited-minutes stuff can do wild things while otherwise just highlighting a strength, you know what I mean?

[GLF]

Now remember, Scottie slept walked to 15 PPG in his rookie season solely off transition, offensive rebounds and being spoon fed shots in the paint by guys like Pascal and Fred. Oh and on mismatches too. People were shocked at his scoring and PPG but he truly wasn’t doing anything profound. People just underestimated his touch in the paint. CMB has amazing touch in the paint and is probably even better at big man things than Scottie was expected to be. He won’t get the minutes or touches Scottie got most likely, but he can do a lot of what Scottie did offensively along with being a much better driver than Scottie was and maybe is. If the touch translates to the NBA he may score more points than people think. His height may be his only issue because he may get blocked more than Scottie did. But if we keep it simple for him I think he can score.

[YogurtProducer]

Now remember, Scottie slept walked to 15 PPG in his rookie season solely off transition, offensive rebounds and being spoon fed shots in the paint by guys like Pascal and Fred. Oh and on mismatches too. People were shocked at his scoring and PPG but he truly wasn’t doing anything profound. People just underestimated his touch in the paint. CMB has amazing touch in the paint and is probably even better at big man things than Scottie was expected to be. He won’t get the minutes or touches Scottie got most likely, but he can do a lot of what Scottie did offensively along with being a much better driver than Scottie was and maybe is. If the touch translates to the NBA he may score more points than people think. His height may be his only issue because he may get blocked more than Scottie did. But if we keep it simple for him I think he can score.

TO be fair, 15ppg as a 35mpg guy is not impressive.

[Los_29]

What makes me excited is how much better CMB was in college than Scottie and Scottie had a very productive rookie season. Obviously, there is no guarantee CMB matches what Scottie did as every player is different but I see a path where CMB can be very productive for this club in year 1. 10/5 with good defense is what I see him averaging. I think the minutes will be there for him.

[tsherkin]

Now remember, Scottie slept walked to 15 PPG in his rookie season solely off transition, offensive rebounds and being spoon fed shots in the paint by guys like Pascal and Fred. Oh and on mismatches too. People were shocked at his scoring and PPG but he truly wasn’t doing anything profound. People just underestimated his touch in the paint. CMB has amazing touch in the paint and is probably even better at big man things than Scottie was expected to be. He won’t get the minutes or touches Scottie got most likely, but he can do a lot of what Scottie did offensively along with being a much better driver than Scottie was and maybe is. If the touch translates to the NBA he may score more points than people think. His height may be his only issue because he may get blocked more than Scottie did. But if we keep it simple for him I think he can score.

TO be fair, 15ppg as a 35mpg guy is not impressive.

Also to be fair, as a 12.6 FGA/g guy (5th on the team), he was also only a 98 TS+ player, which is a little rough, even for a rookie. He was not stunning offensively, volume notwithstanding. It WAS, however, the only season where he was better than 100 FG+, and his only season better than 98 2P+. He's generally not strong at finishing shots, and he's had a pair of seasons at or below 93 2P+, which says a lot about his tools inside the arc, even in lower-volume seasons.

[youngRAPZ]

What makes me excited is how much better CMB was in college than Scottie and Scottie had a very productive rookie season. Obviously, there is no guarantee CMB matches what Scottie did as every player is different but I see a path where CMB can be very productive for this club in year 1. 10/5 with good defense is what I see him averaging. I think the minutes will be there for him.

Are we comparing freshman CMB to Scotty or Sophomore CMB because that would be unfair.


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[GLF]

Now remember, Scottie slept walked to 15 PPG in his rookie season solely off transition, offensive rebounds and being spoon fed shots in the paint by guys like Pascal and Fred. Oh and on mismatches too. People were shocked at his scoring and PPG but he truly wasn’t doing anything profound. People just underestimated his touch in the paint. CMB has amazing touch in the paint and is probably even better at big man things than Scottie was expected to be. He won’t get the minutes or touches Scottie got most likely, but he can do a lot of what Scottie did offensively along with being a much better driver than Scottie was and maybe is. If the touch translates to the NBA he may score more points than people think. His height may be his only issue because he may get blocked more than Scottie did. But if we keep it simple for him I think he can score.

TO be fair, 15ppg as a 35mpg guy is not impressive.

That wasn’t how most people felt at the time though. Most people were shocked he even scored that amount because they thought he was a zero level scorer. It’s why he won rookie of the year.

[Basketball_Jones]

Now remember, Scottie slept walked to 15 PPG in his rookie season solely off transition, offensive rebounds and being spoon fed shots in the paint by guys like Pascal and Fred. Oh and on mismatches too. People were shocked at his scoring and PPG but he truly wasn’t doing anything profound. People just underestimated his touch in the paint. CMB has amazing touch in the paint and is probably even better at big man things than Scottie was expected to be. He won’t get the minutes or touches Scottie got most likely, but he can do a lot of what Scottie did offensively along with being a much better driver than Scottie was and maybe is. If the touch translates to the NBA he may score more points than people think. His height may be his only issue because he may get blocked more than Scottie did. But if we keep it simple for him I think he can score.

Pretty good summary and how I feel. CMB looks more naturally talented than Scottie was but without his raw physical athleticism. He won’t have the same opportunity as well so I’m expecting a slower climb for him.

[oldncreaky]

8/5 would be pretty crazy as that would translate to 16/10 per 36 and IDK if he is gonna be a 10rpg guy but maybe he will be.

I compared Scottie and CMB per 40 minuts in college.

CMB - 22/11/3/2/2 - 63TS%
Scottie - 17/7/7/2/1 - 54TS%

I guess I didn't realize how productive CMB was in college.

We'll see how it goes. I don't know that I expect quite that level of rebounding, but he's a tough player with solid physical tools and good instincts. If that's his focus, I can imagine lower-minute production being higher than we might see at 30+ mpg, you know? Or he could just be an awesome rebounder.

We've seen strong-body rebounders before, and while he isn't quite built like Etan Thomas/Reggie Evans/Dannie Fortson, he's also not a ton smaller than a young Dennis Rodman. Less athletic, but still, you know? Rodman was a 7/4 guy as a rookie in 15 mpg, and while of course he's among the GOAT rebounders in league history, limited-minutes stuff can do wild things while otherwise just highlighting a strength, you know what I mean?

I don't think it's fair to CMB to make that kind of comparison. I have to point out that Rodman was a 25-year-old rookie with grown-man strength and crazy energy and athleticism. As a rookie, Rodman forced his way into the rotation of a very good team that went to the Conf Finals that season -- and likely would have forced his way into the starting line-up on an average team because he was an elite defender from day 1.

[tsherkin]

I don't think it's fair to CMB to make that kind of comparison. I have to point out that Rodman was a 25-year-old rookie with grown-man strength and crazy energy and athleticism. As a rookie, Rodman forced his way into the rotation of a very good team that went to the Conf Finals that season -- and likely would have forced his way into the starting line-up on an average team because he was an elite defender from day 1.

I wasn't trying to draw a direct comparison, and had thought I hedged and equivocated enough for that to be clear, but yes, I agree that they are far from perfect comparisons. I was more trying to point out that per-minute numbers of the sort we're discussing are possible. I did specifically acknowledge, for example, that Rodman is one of the GOAT rebounders, and I don't really think CMB is going to threaten that sort of description.

More, though, that he could rebound well for us in limited minutes in a way which I don't think will maintain fully as he takes on more responsibilities as his minutes rise, you know?

EDIT: Especially if we play him as a PF/C rather than as a SF, which is what Rodman was doing, which made HIS numbers all the more ridiculous.

[ArthurVandelay]

What makes me excited is how much better CMB was in college than Scottie and Scottie had a very productive rookie season. Obviously, there is no guarantee CMB matches what Scottie did as every player is different but I see a path where CMB can be very productive for this club in year 1. 10/5 with good defense is what I see him averaging. I think the minutes will be there for him.

Are we comparing freshman CMB to Scotty or Sophomore CMB because that would be unfair.


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Could say comparing Freshman CMB to Freshman Scottie is also unfair as CMB was a year younger.