NZB2323 wrote:f4p wrote:GiannisAnte34 wrote:
How is it trolling exactly? Harden has had many elite running mates with not much to show for it.
Because harden and Kyrie played 40 seconds together in the series they lost. Cp3 missed the 2 most important games of the season when they were up on a team people had called unfair just 1 year before (and cp3 looked like crap the next year). They’re not really running mates if they aren’t out there running with you.
And harden got Embiid after hardens prime and yet arguably was better than embiid against Boston, even winning a road game without embiid. And he “failed” with Durant and Westbrook by them exceeding expectations and making the finals when they were young and weren’t expected to, with harden being the 2nd best player in the WCF to get them to the finals?
Nothing about Giannis suggests he’s taking anything other than a whooping against the KD warriors, no matter his supporting cast. The 2020 heat were too much for maybe his actual best team.
I’ve defended Harden a fair amount on this site, but he’s had way too many disappointing playoff games and has never won a championship so I can’t put him on the same tier as Giannis.
Ok, but this isn't just "ringz, erneh", it's that argument on steroids. The 2018 rockets are a much better team than the 2021 bucks. Giannis has a ring and harden doesn't because giannis played way way worse competition. I mean his team closed out the last 2 games of the conference finals without him. Giannis clearly has zero rings playing the competition harden did.
And while harden indeed has disappointing playoff games, so does giannis. I have a measure of playoff resiliency (drop from the regular season). Karl Malone is basically by himself in last place. Tied for 2nd? Harden. Who is he tied with? Giannis.
Which makes sense right? Giannis was terrible in the final 4 games in 2019 while blowing a 2-0 lead. He has lost to an 8th seed where his teams only win was without him, and thats arguably not even his most embarrassing playoff series against jimmy butler's heat, where his upset in 2020 is one of the biggest upsets in NBA history by net rating. Harden hasn't done any of those things or thrown away any great chances like that. Even in 2021, giannis got the nets without harden and when that wasn't enough, they lost Kyrie and even then they needed the last second of game 7 to win the series. The 2018 rockets probably don't lose more than 2 or 3 games that whole playoffs, much less lose 2 to the hawks.
You can say Harden lost to the KD Warriors, but he put up a stinker in game 7.
He put up 32/6/6 against the #1 defense in the playoffs without his best teammate to take any pressure off. Since his team lost by 9 (we won't go into the refs), that means he just needed a mere 42/6/6 to win against one of the best teams ever.
His TS% was 8.1% worse in that series than it was in the regular season.
Not great, but that series was a rock fight. KD was 4.4% lower. Chris paul was 8.2%. Steph was even worse at 9.6% and it was over 11% before Paul got hurt.
And what about all the years he didn’t face the KD Warriors? It’s like Karl Malone. Sure, he lost to the Jordan Bulls, but what about all the other years?
What about them? He has lost to:
2010 Champion
2011 Champion
2012 Champion
2013 60 win team
2014 54 win team
2015 Champion
2016 73 win team
2017 61 win team
2018 Champion
2019 would have been champion of KD doesn't miss finals
2020 Champion
2021 Champion
Past his prime after 2021
Harden also has never beat Durant in the playoffs, and had a similar series against Durant in 2013 as Giannis did in 2021. In 2013 Durant didn’t have Harden and Westbrook got injured. In game 6 Harden had a TS% of 48.4% as his team got eliminated. In 2021 in game 7 Giannis had a TS% of 66.3% as his team won the series.
Harden wasn't good in that series but seriously? Hardens first year as a starter vs peak giannis? Is this the argument? The rockets were the 8th seed with a weak supporting cast against a 60 win team. The series was 2-0 with Westbrook but then 2-2 after the injury, which seems about right doesn't it? That the rockets played them evenly with no Westbrook? I mean even if they somehow beat the thunder, they're still the 8th seed so they just lose in the next round.
