Moderators: KingDavid, heat4life, MettaWorldPanda, Wiltside, IggieCC, BFRESH44, QUIZ
HeatFanLifer wrote:MettaWorldPanda wrote:
Yet another example of poor decision making by the Heat when they got this guy.
twix2500 wrote:The team was so incohesive last season I understand the lack of trust but to think the Heat was going to have a contender after trading their center piece player was just way too high of expectation. After Lakers traded Shaq the Lakers sucked with Kobe. Not sure why the expectation some had for the Heat.
Heat are not done remodeling the team. The Heat are willing to trade players to get the type of players they are looking for. Its only been half a season since they started to build around Herro and Bam.
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VaDe255 wrote:I know "bottom out" approach is a fun theory but doesn't really work nearly as well as people think.
Bottom out teams in the last 20 years:
Short rebuilds which suceeded or could be considered that:
Thunder: Bottomed out in 2022 and won in 2025 hitting on Shai/JDub/Chet as the main pieces, how people think it will go
Celtics: One year bottom out in 2014, thanks to the Nets trade and hit on Tatum/Brown, made good trades, most know the story
Cavs: Bottomed out in 2019, hit on Garland/Mobley and traded for Mitchell, won a series in 24, 25
Rockets: Bottomed out in 2021 and returned to contention in 25, Sengun/Amen worked out and the vets Brooks/VanVleet too, Ime Udoka also a good hire, going into year 6 without winning a playoff series in 5 years, but look primed and ready to do it this year
Spurs: Bottomed out in 2020, won the jackpot with Wemby, also heading into year 7, missing the playoffs 6 years straight, it’s fair to wonder if this is considered a success, yet
Long rebuilds or ongoing which look like fails:
Wolves: Last playoff series win: 2025. Spent nearly two decades stuck with bad lottery luck, busts, and instability. Finally turned the corner drafting KAT and Ant and paying a haul for Gobert
Sixers: Last playoff series win: 2023. Went a decade without one from 2003–2012, then another drought 2013–2018. Drafting Embiid ended the tank years, but with his knees breaking down and a massive cap chunk tied to PG, they might be headed for yet another cycle
Jazz: Last playoff series win: 2021. Sold high on Gobert and Mitchell, going into year 4 and fully bottomed out now, with no clear timeline out of it
Wizards: Last playoff series win: 2017 (and the gaps before that were decade-long). Basically bad forever with only brief peaks, now fully bottomed out again going into year 3, given the roster and direction, this rebuild doesn’t look like it’ll be short
Bulls: Last playoff series win: 2015. Tore it down after trading Jimmy in 2017 and bottomed out, but never found a star. Pivoted to DeRozan/Vucevic/Lavine, which flopped, and now they’re sliding back into another bottom out
Magic: Last playoff series win is 2010. Bottomed out after the Dwight trade in 2012, wandered through a decade of rebuilds, finally competitive again with Paolo/Franz and just pushed almost all their draft capital in for Bane
Pistons: Last playoff series win is 2008. Endless rebuild plagued by bad lottery luck, busted picks and no true star or steady vets. 2025 was their best season in years, but whether Cade is the guy or not might decide if this is finally a climb out or just more of the same
Kings: Last playoff series win is 2004. In a perpetual bottom out / mid cycle, briefly peaked in 2023 but already trending downward again
Hornets: Last playoff series win: 2002. Two decades of losing, bottoming out multiple times and never past the 1st round. They’re perpetually stuck in the lottery treadmill, with the 2020s versions bottoming out again around LaMelo and no clear sign they’ll break the cycle soon
The idea that the Heat will just magically pull off an OKC style fairy tale is a biased narrative. The far more likely outcome of a bottom out is 5+ years of irrelevance, because most rebuilds only end when teams get lucky hitting the lottery in a jackpot year or stumbling into multiple stars. There’s no guarantee of that, even for a well run organization. The Spurs are already in year 7 without a playoff win for 6 years, and that’s after hitting the jackpot with Wemby.
The Heat have avoided that trap by staying competitive. They develop undrafted talent (also a reason those 2nd rounders don't mean as much to them), make opportunistic trades and keep themselves in position to strike for high impact players when the chance comes. That’s why they’ve reached the Finals 7 times in 20 years (a 35% hit rate), while most bottom outs just drag on indefinitely.
There’s no real reason to doubt them now, they’re simply in a transition period after moving on from Jimmy
HeatFanLifer wrote:Spoiler:
The Heat bottomed out to get Wade and opened up cap space to sign Odom. I think that’s the approach the people on team tank want to see. There’s no formula on the right or wrong way to do it though, it’s all situational. In the case of the current Heat, the circumstances are they have a lot of money paying bad players and no superstar talent that can carry the team like Butler did. Naturally after losing a player of his caliber, the normal approach would be to rebuild.
i dont get the hyping since ppl know what this guy can really do on the court alreadyunowen85 wrote:
More on the recent hyping up of Wiggins by the Heat on social media.
VaDe255 wrote:HeatFanLifer wrote:Spoiler:
The Heat bottomed out to get Wade and opened up cap space to sign Odom. I think that’s the approach the people on team tank want to see. There’s no formula on the right or wrong way to do it though, it’s all situational. In the case of the current Heat, the circumstances are they have a lot of money paying bad players and no superstar talent that can carry the team like Butler did. Naturally after losing a player of his caliber, the normal approach would be to rebuild.
Well, this is exactly the point, the “just bottom out and draft your DWade” idea is a fairy tale and not some formula.
The examples I laid out are plenty and show unless you luck into the guy (or land a superstar some other way), you’re stuck in the perpetual bottom out cycle. You don’t just tank for a year and grab a Hall of Famer, it can take 5+ years, sometimes more, before you even sniff a superstar.
Well this fanbase wouldn't consider that as bottoming out because the Heat kept Eddie Jones and Brian Grant.HeatFanLifer wrote:VaDe255 wrote:I know "bottom out" approach is a fun theory but doesn't really work nearly as well as people think.
Bottom out teams in the last 20 years:
Short rebuilds which suceeded or could be considered that:
Thunder: Bottomed out in 2022 and won in 2025 hitting on Shai/JDub/Chet as the main pieces, how people think it will go
Celtics: One year bottom out in 2014, thanks to the Nets trade and hit on Tatum/Brown, made good trades, most know the story
Cavs: Bottomed out in 2019, hit on Garland/Mobley and traded for Mitchell, won a series in 24, 25
Rockets: Bottomed out in 2021 and returned to contention in 25, Sengun/Amen worked out and the vets Brooks/VanVleet too, Ime Udoka also a good hire, going into year 6 without winning a playoff series in 5 years, but look primed and ready to do it this year
Spurs: Bottomed out in 2020, won the jackpot with Wemby, also heading into year 7, missing the playoffs 6 years straight, it’s fair to wonder if this is considered a success, yet
Long rebuilds or ongoing which look like fails:
Wolves: Last playoff series win: 2025. Spent nearly two decades stuck with bad lottery luck, busts, and instability. Finally turned the corner drafting KAT and Ant and paying a haul for Gobert
Sixers: Last playoff series win: 2023. Went a decade without one from 2003–2012, then another drought 2013–2018. Drafting Embiid ended the tank years, but with his knees breaking down and a massive cap chunk tied to PG, they might be headed for yet another cycle
Jazz: Last playoff series win: 2021. Sold high on Gobert and Mitchell, going into year 4 and fully bottomed out now, with no clear timeline out of it
Wizards: Last playoff series win: 2017 (and the gaps before that were decade-long). Basically bad forever with only brief peaks, now fully bottomed out again going into year 3, given the roster and direction, this rebuild doesn’t look like it’ll be short
Bulls: Last playoff series win: 2015. Tore it down after trading Jimmy in 2017 and bottomed out, but never found a star. Pivoted to DeRozan/Vucevic/Lavine, which flopped, and now they’re sliding back into another bottom out
Magic: Last playoff series win is 2010. Bottomed out after the Dwight trade in 2012, wandered through a decade of rebuilds, finally competitive again with Paolo/Franz and just pushed almost all their draft capital in for Bane
Pistons: Last playoff series win is 2008. Endless rebuild plagued by bad lottery luck, busted picks and no true star or steady vets. 2025 was their best season in years, but whether Cade is the guy or not might decide if this is finally a climb out or just more of the same
Kings: Last playoff series win is 2004. In a perpetual bottom out / mid cycle, briefly peaked in 2023 but already trending downward again
Hornets: Last playoff series win: 2002. Two decades of losing, bottoming out multiple times and never past the 1st round. They’re perpetually stuck in the lottery treadmill, with the 2020s versions bottoming out again around LaMelo and no clear sign they’ll break the cycle soon
The idea that the Heat will just magically pull off an OKC style fairy tale is a biased narrative. The far more likely outcome of a bottom out is 5+ years of irrelevance, because most rebuilds only end when teams get lucky hitting the lottery in a jackpot year or stumbling into multiple stars. There’s no guarantee of that, even for a well run organization. The Spurs are already in year 7 without a playoff win for 6 years, and that’s after hitting the jackpot with Wemby.
The Heat have avoided that trap by staying competitive. They develop undrafted talent (also a reason those 2nd rounders don't mean as much to them), make opportunistic trades and keep themselves in position to strike for high impact players when the chance comes. That’s why they’ve reached the Finals 7 times in 20 years (a 35% hit rate), while most bottom outs just drag on indefinitely.
There’s no real reason to doubt them now, they’re simply in a transition period after moving on from Jimmy
The Heat bottomed out to get Wade and opened up cap space to sign Odom. I think that’s the approach the people on team tank want to see. There’s no formula on the right or wrong way to do it though, it’s all situational. In the case of the current Heat, the circumstances are they have a lot of money paying bad players and no superstar talent that can carry the team like Butler did. Naturally after losing a player of his caliber, the normal approach would be to rebuild.
HeatFanLifer wrote:I know you are retired, but get your head out of 2010 mentality. The league is different.
Miami Heat end pursuit of Houston Rockets' James Harden, sources say
Brian Windhorst
Dec 21, 2020, 03:50 PM ET
After having cursory talks about a James Harden trade, the Miami Heat have moved on and will not pursue the Houston Rockets' star, sources told ESPN.
Miami is one of the teams that had the type of package of young prospects that the Rockets have been seeking in their pursuit of a deal for their disgruntled star. Miami has intriguing young players Tyler Herro, Duncan Robinson and Kendrick Nunn, among others, plus some veteran players on the final years of their contracts who could have been used to facilitate the trade.
However, the Rockets have also been looking for significant draft assets in Harden deals and the Heat currently can offer only their 2027 first-round pick in a trade. For those reasons, discussions never got very far on the Rockets' side, sources said.
The South Florida Sun-Sentinel first reported the Heat's decision to end the trade talks.
Vertical Limit wrote:Just Buy out Rozier for **** sakes, youre not getting anything relevant with just his expiring alone, why would you want random players that dont fit, and potentially with extra years on their deal.
Try to get him to accept a buyout at a discount that saves you abiut 4 mill and let him go..
gom wrote:HeatFanLifer wrote:I know you are retired, but get your head out of 2010 mentality. The league is different.
HeatFanLifer, you are embarrasing yourself.
twix2500 wrote:
twix2500 wrote:Well this fanbase wouldn't consider that as bottoming out because the Heat kept Eddie Jones and Brian Grant.HeatFanLifer wrote:VaDe255 wrote:I know "bottom out" approach is a fun theory but doesn't really work nearly as well as people think.
Bottom out teams in the last 20 years:
Short rebuilds which suceeded or could be considered that:
Thunder: Bottomed out in 2022 and won in 2025 hitting on Shai/JDub/Chet as the main pieces, how people think it will go
Celtics: One year bottom out in 2014, thanks to the Nets trade and hit on Tatum/Brown, made good trades, most know the story
Cavs: Bottomed out in 2019, hit on Garland/Mobley and traded for Mitchell, won a series in 24, 25
Rockets: Bottomed out in 2021 and returned to contention in 25, Sengun/Amen worked out and the vets Brooks/VanVleet too, Ime Udoka also a good hire, going into year 6 without winning a playoff series in 5 years, but look primed and ready to do it this year
Spurs: Bottomed out in 2020, won the jackpot with Wemby, also heading into year 7, missing the playoffs 6 years straight, it’s fair to wonder if this is considered a success, yet
Long rebuilds or ongoing which look like fails:
Wolves: Last playoff series win: 2025. Spent nearly two decades stuck with bad lottery luck, busts, and instability. Finally turned the corner drafting KAT and Ant and paying a haul for Gobert
Sixers: Last playoff series win: 2023. Went a decade without one from 2003–2012, then another drought 2013–2018. Drafting Embiid ended the tank years, but with his knees breaking down and a massive cap chunk tied to PG, they might be headed for yet another cycle
Jazz: Last playoff series win: 2021. Sold high on Gobert and Mitchell, going into year 4 and fully bottomed out now, with no clear timeline out of it
Wizards: Last playoff series win: 2017 (and the gaps before that were decade-long). Basically bad forever with only brief peaks, now fully bottomed out again going into year 3, given the roster and direction, this rebuild doesn’t look like it’ll be short
Bulls: Last playoff series win: 2015. Tore it down after trading Jimmy in 2017 and bottomed out, but never found a star. Pivoted to DeRozan/Vucevic/Lavine, which flopped, and now they’re sliding back into another bottom out
Magic: Last playoff series win is 2010. Bottomed out after the Dwight trade in 2012, wandered through a decade of rebuilds, finally competitive again with Paolo/Franz and just pushed almost all their draft capital in for Bane
Pistons: Last playoff series win is 2008. Endless rebuild plagued by bad lottery luck, busted picks and no true star or steady vets. 2025 was their best season in years, but whether Cade is the guy or not might decide if this is finally a climb out or just more of the same
Kings: Last playoff series win is 2004. In a perpetual bottom out / mid cycle, briefly peaked in 2023 but already trending downward again
Hornets: Last playoff series win: 2002. Two decades of losing, bottoming out multiple times and never past the 1st round. They’re perpetually stuck in the lottery treadmill, with the 2020s versions bottoming out again around LaMelo and no clear sign they’ll break the cycle soon
The idea that the Heat will just magically pull off an OKC style fairy tale is a biased narrative. The far more likely outcome of a bottom out is 5+ years of irrelevance, because most rebuilds only end when teams get lucky hitting the lottery in a jackpot year or stumbling into multiple stars. There’s no guarantee of that, even for a well run organization. The Spurs are already in year 7 without a playoff win for 6 years, and that’s after hitting the jackpot with Wemby.
The Heat have avoided that trap by staying competitive. They develop undrafted talent (also a reason those 2nd rounders don't mean as much to them), make opportunistic trades and keep themselves in position to strike for high impact players when the chance comes. That’s why they’ve reached the Finals 7 times in 20 years (a 35% hit rate), while most bottom outs just drag on indefinitely.
There’s no real reason to doubt them now, they’re simply in a transition period after moving on from Jimmy
The Heat bottomed out to get Wade and opened up cap space to sign Odom. I think that’s the approach the people on team tank want to see. There’s no formula on the right or wrong way to do it though, it’s all situational. In the case of the current Heat, the circumstances are they have a lot of money paying bad players and no superstar talent that can carry the team like Butler did. Naturally after losing a player of his caliber, the normal approach would be to rebuild.
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