Dunc’d On Grades Bulls’ Offseason

[DuckIII]

Yeah they drafted somebody, much more future than help for the next 2 years so the Noa payoff is that far down the road.

The fact that they were willing to draft one of the most raw players in the draft knowing he will not help win games in a meaningful way for 2 years is one of the reasons I gave them a B.

It is hugely significant ideologically and was an excellent pick at 11 on multiple levels.

[dougthonus]

The fact that they were willing to draft one of the most raw players in the draft knowing he will not help win games in a meaningful way for 2 years is one of the reasons I gave them a B.

It is hugely significant ideologically and was an excellent pick at 11 on multiple levels.

Passing on that Pelicans deal to take Noa is a negative grade to me, though I like Noa himself as a pick for the reasons you named, the Pelicans deal was a way better risk/reward prop IMO in that same vein of betting on a longer term future. Obviously we had no way to know he'd be there at the time, but I'd have been pretty happy with Asa Newell whom went with the pick we would have had in that deal.

[ghostinthepost1]

I'd give them an D.

Honestly don't hate what they've done.
- I like the Okoro for Lonzo trade, even though I would've preferred a pick.
- I really liked picking Noa though it's the 12th pick in the draft and who knows what he looks like years from now.
- Resigning Tre was alright, a little concerned about his shooting not carrying over to this season.

However, the fact that:
- Vooch is still on the team.
- It seems like they're going to let both Ayo and Coby play out the last years of their deals.
- Really not doing anything with the 90+ million in expiring deals they have on the roster right now.

I get that they want to wait and see if the post all-star run was real but IMO that's the biggest problem with FO. After the Vooch/Demar moves they refuse to take any kind of risk which means they always wait too long.

You think Giddey/Coby/Matas are good enough to lead you to 50+ wins? Great start building around them!
You think that they're more complimentary pieces? Great, trade off guys like Huerter, Collins, etc and tank for the next face of the franchise.

[Indomitable]

Idk why everyone acts like Lonzo is likely to stay healthy

This.

I don't know why everyone (including the press) acts like the Cavs robbed us.

When Lonzo was with the Bulls, no one was betting on his recovery, and even if he did, everyone was skeptical about how he'd perform and how long he'd last. He's back, the guy ony plays 35 games on a minutes restriction after missing two and a half seasons, and it now feels like we've let go of our best asset since Caruso.

Most people here wouldn't even have re-signed Lonzo (myself included). So you can think of it this way: consider you let Lonzo expire and you get Okoro for 2 years "for free". I don´t know how people see the trade as "neutral" or even a bad trade, unless you consider Okoro has a bad contract (which he doesn´t).

In today´s NBA "availability is the best ability". You may not like Okoro but he is a decent role player and he has never played fewer than 55 games in a season. Wake me up the next time Lonzo plays 50 games in a season.

I look at the trade as a two prong move.

We got okoro for his defense and resign Tre Jones to be the 2nd PG. Ball is a huge health hazard.

[ChiTownHero1992]

If they bring back Giddey on a bad deal it will be an F, if bring back Giddey on a good deal it will be a C+, as it stands right now I give it a D

They really haven't done anything, essentially Lonzo for Okoro was the ONLY move. Noa is 2 years away from being 2 years away so he is a non-factor for likely the next 3+ seasons. Tre Jones resigning was ok but not an upgrade in any way so not significant. They are essentially either bringing back the EXACT SAME team w/ or w/o Giddey, and either way that is not really that great of an off-season, they didn't do ANYTHING.

[coldfish]

Ill just note that a lot of people around the NBA really don’t like Okuro. Regardless of what you think of Ball he has a team friendly deal that gives him trade value. The Bulls trading him for a net negative contract is going to get a bad grade.

[DuckIII]

The fact that they were willing to draft one of the most raw players in the draft knowing he will not help win games in a meaningful way for 2 years is one of the reasons I gave them a B.

It is hugely significant ideologically and was an excellent pick at 11 on multiple levels.

Passing on that Pelicans deal to take Noa is a negative grade to me, though I like Noa himself as a pick for the reasons you named, the Pelicans deal was a way better risk/reward prop IMO in that same vein of betting on a longer term future. Obviously we had no way to know he'd be there at the time, but I'd have been pretty happy with Asa Newell whom went with the pick we would have had in that deal.

The rubber meets the road on the Pels/Bucks pick next year. Newel is JAG who went in the range he should have gone. I do think part of the reason the media and fans have been so hard on the Pels and so full of praise for the Hawks - to the point of overstatement both directions - is the players taken.

The Pels took Queen, who teams and scouts were very divided about.

And the Hawks took Newell, who as a Montverde darling before he ever got to UGA, did okay there but showed precisely zero standout NBA attributes, and was still riding HS hype in the early stages of the draft process before teams got a thorough look at him. Then he fell. Before the draft, not during. By the time the draft arrived it was common to see Newell in the late teens and 20s. NBA teams began to see him the way I see him: Role player, and a borderline starting one at best. The type of unremarkable dry white toast big that's available every year or two off the scrap heap. He's an NBA prospect and player, but I don't see a guy here that anyone will ever kick themselves for "missing out on."

The over under at teams Newell plays for in his NBA career is at about 5. I don't factor him. Noa is 3x the prospect with a ceiling that if fully realized could be a genuinely unique impact player. The wisdom of the Bulls theoretically passing on this exact trade will be more clear next draft. That's where Atlanta could strike it rich.

[MGB8]

Ill just note that a lot of people around the NBA really don’t like Okuro. Regardless of what you think of Ball he has a team friendly deal that gives him trade value. The Bulls trading him for a net negative contract is going to get a bad grade.

Preliminarily. But it will depend entirely on how Okoro plays. I like Lonzo on the team as a teacher / leader / stabilizer that may be you trade at the deadline if he is playing well (you get a good offer). But Okoro is young, has some 3&D bonafides, and an extra year at a bit sub MLE. Can see the appeal. A "B" trade for me.

Don't love the Essengue pick due to fit issues with Giddey and Matas already at the 3 and 4 plus rawness. But get the upside play. That was a big swing - not sure that the Bulls can afford to miss, but if they hit may alter trajectory. Plus maybe Giddey was not so locked into the plans (as signaled by the lack of progress in the negotiations, though maybe it is more on Giddey's side than the Bulls). I would have taken JK, but very possibly the Pels deal if unprotected 1st on the table plus 23 (given depth of draft and toughness of West).

I am very concerned about not resolving either Coby or Ayo ahead of FA next year. Especially if the reports of Orlando trade offering 2 first plus Cole Anthony (before Bane trade) are true. Reports of Coby asking for 40 are concerning.

I get Bulls wanting Ayo as a hedge and to see where he is at, and also wanting even more info on Coby and not wanting him out given character and development - but the money picture is concerning.

[Chicago-Bull-E]

Ill just note that a lot of people around the NBA really don’t like Okuro. Regardless of what you think of Ball he has a team friendly deal that gives him trade value. The Bulls trading him for a net negative contract is going to get a bad grade.

As it should. The trade is bad from a financial perspective, and Okoro has been a worse player on the court his entire career.

I guess he's healthier (but no iron man), but he has the value of a guy off the street thus far. So...that argument is pretty silly to me. You can draft 2nd round picks that put up his advanced metrics pretty quickly.

The handwaving away clear negatives fans do are so funny. Of course anyone outside of the city of Chicago hated the deal for the Bulls.

[Chicago-Bull-E]

[But it will depend entirely on how Okoro plays.

We have 5 years of data on this. And the data hasn't moved substantially at all in those 5 years. And Cleveland has been both really bad and really good in those years.

This isn't some mystery box.

[coldfish]

Ill just note that a lot of people around the NBA really don’t like Okuro. Regardless of what you think of Ball he has a team friendly deal that gives him trade value. The Bulls trading him for a net negative contract is going to get a bad grade.

As it should. The trade is bad from a financial perspective, and Okoro has been a worse player on the court his entire career.

I guess he's healthier (but no iron man), but he has the value of a guy off the street thus far. So...that argument is pretty silly to me. You can draft 2nd round picks that put up his advanced metrics pretty quickly.

The handwaving away clear negatives fans do are so funny. Of course anyone outside of the city of Chicago hated the deal for the Bulls.

+1. Okuru is the type of player you just pick up in free agency. You don’t trade for him unless you are getting a pick back.

[dougthonus]

The rubber meets the road on the Pels/Bucks pick next year. Newel is JAG who went in the range he should have gone. I do think part of the reason the media and fans have been so hard on the Pels and so full of praise for the Hawks - to the point of overstatement both directions - is the players taken.

The Pels took Queen, who teams and scouts were very divided about.

And the Hawks took Newell, who as a Montverde darling before he ever got to UGA, did okay there but showed precisely zero standout NBA attributes, and was still riding HS hype in the early stages of the draft process before teams got a thorough look at him. Then he fell. Before the draft, not during. By the time the draft arrived it was common to see Newell in the late teens and 20s. NBA teams began to see him the way I see him: Role player, and a borderline starting one at best. The type of unremarkable dry white toast big that's available every year or two off the scrap heap. He's an NBA prospect and player, but I don't see a guy here that anyone will ever kick themselves for "missing out on."

The over under at teams Newell plays for in his NBA career is at about 5. I don't factor him. Noa is 3x the prospect with a ceiling that if fully realized could be a genuinely unique impact player. The wisdom of the Bulls theoretically passing on this exact trade will be more clear next draft. That's where Atlanta could strike it rich.

We will see what happens in a few years, always tough on prospects, I didn't view Noa as 3x the prospect as Newell. I'm also not a draft expert though. In my light reading they had pretty similar draft grades from a lot of places and seemed to fill similar roles. The real experts (NBA scouts) apparently had them pretty far apart, so on the surface your take there seems reasonable that at least the Bulls viewed Noa as a high end prospect, and the NBA at large did not view Newell that way given he fell.

The pick is absolutely the big piece of this though and not Newell. To get a shot at the better of an unprotected 1st from two teams that could both easily be really bad as a super high reward asset. Even if it doesn't work out, the value of that risk/reward proposition is just incredibly high. I don't view Noa to have nearly that ceiling and think he still has a very low floor as well. I think we'd likely get a similar caliber prospect next year with that pick even if we didn't get the super high reward side.

But again, I like Noa a lot, my fingers are crossed for him.

[Rose2Boozer]

1. I didn't mind the Noa Essengue pick, but if Matas Buzelis doesn't develop into a small forward, what in the world are we doing. AK would've drafted power forwards of the future in two consecutive drafts.
2. Personally, I would've let Tre Jones walk and went with Ayo and Terry off the bench. What's the point of drafting a kid who needs development just to put veteran roadblocks in front of them. Tre Jones' money could've been used to make a more attractive offer to Josh Giddey. Let's see if Giddey turns down 26 or 27 million per season.
3. The Ball for Okuro trade seems desperate. There had to be a better deal for Lonzo than yet another veteran roadblock. How are the Bulls going to see what they have in Phillips without giving him consistent minutes to develop.
4. I wasn't a fan of the AKME extension because I'm simply not a fan of those guys. I think those guys are pretty lazy and asleep at the wheel far too much for my liking.
5. I was cool with Billy Donovan's extension. He's a good coach coaching a not very good team.

All of that being said, I don't think I would've given the Bulls off season an F, but it's close.

[ChettheJet]

I can't disagree with "F"

resigning Jones was a good move. Sure he was injured to wrap up the season but with plenty of extra guards they didn't rush him Ayo or Ball.
I still don't like the Ball for Okoro trade, I feel Lonzo brought more leadership and respect, plus a year less on his contract that he could have been part of next season at least.
Still have Vucevic, not good to me
still have Terry and Carter who aren't part of the present or future
maintaining the options for the deadline and next summer cap space of White, Huerter, Dosunmu, Collins, Vucevic and Carter is a good strategy

I'm not disappointed that they didn't make 7 good sized moves but 1 or 2 wold have made more sense than standing still on the 39 win roster

[Evil_Headband]

It was always going to be a unexciting offseason just due to the lack of roster spaces, space under the luxury tax line, and questionably valuable players. I don't expect them to work magic. Unless they make a big move at the trade deadline, next offseason will be the interesting one to grade. This year: C. Unexciting but nothing that damages the team long-term.

[jnrjr79]

1. I didn't mind the Noa Essengue pick, but if Matas Buzelis doesn't develop into a small forward, what in the world are we doing. AK would've drafted power forwards of the future in two consecutive drafts.

I suppose it's a concern, but the Bulls aren't good enough to worry about the depth chart when making draft picks at this point. I think there's also some chance Essengue ends up as a 5 some years down the line, depending on how he progresses physically.

2. Personally, I would've let Tre Jones walk and went with Ayo and Terry off the bench. What's the point of drafting a kid who needs development just to put veteran roadblocks in front of them. Tre Jones' money could've been used to make a more attractive offer to Josh Giddey. Let's see if Giddey turns down 26 or 27 million per season.

I think the Jones contract is the most obviously good move of the offseason. The Bulls do not lack any $$ to make an offer to Giddey and not signing Jones would not give them more to sign him. They're playing hardball, but they have plenty of room under the tax to offer him whatever they want.

3. The Ball for Okuro trade seems desperate. There had to be a better deal for Lonzo than yet another veteran roadblock. How are the Bulls going to see what they have in Phillips without giving him consistent minutes to develop.

I don't mind the move, but it's also not an obvious good one. I don't think the Bulls view Phillips as a future starter worth developing.

4. I wasn't a fan of the AKME extension because I'm simply not a fan of those guys. I think those guys are pretty lazy and asleep at the wheel far too much for my liking.

100%

5. I was cool with Billy Donovan's extension. He's a good coach coaching a not very good team.

Agreed.

All of that being said, I don't think I would've given the Bulls off season an F, but it's close.

It's a little odd, because when you're grading the offseason, I think people traditionally mean grading what the front office did. If that's the framework, an F, to me, isa non-serious grade. But if you're grading the entire franchise, such that it includes ownership's decision to extend AKME, then I'd peg the grade a lot lower.

[Evil_Headband]

I suppose it's a concern, but the Bulls aren't good enough to worry about the depth chart when making draft picks at this point. I think there's also some chance Essengue ends up as a 5 some years down the line, depending on how he progresses physically.

With the positionless basketball trend, I think the Bulls would love Buzelis and Essengue to eventually be able to play well together together as forwards. This is the least of my worries.

[pipfan]

Frustrated too with not taking the NO pick
It's not right to wait until next year to judge it-at the draft, the deal was a NO-BRAINER. Milw is a Giannis ankle sprain away from the lottery, and NO should be in the lottery.

To not take that deal is VERY stupid. Of course, maybe Milw is a 4 seed and Zion leads NO to the playoffs, and the pick is #18.
It's MUCH more likely that one (if not both) teams are in the lottery, and we get a shot at a top pick

Newell was actually my pick at #12, but I like Noa. Being able to add him at #23 was a bit of a surprise, but would have been AWESOME (cheaper salary for 4 years too!).

I liked the TJones deal and I've come around on getting Okoro. Loved Ball but we couldn't count on him.

Overall I'd give us a D-mainly for not taking that deal (assuming Giddey signs for at least 3 years-if he takes the QO it's an F)