Official Brandon Ingram Thread

[causal_fan]

Anyone still complaining about BI is just mad we won’t be tanking again this year and the next 5 years after. Give it a rest guys you lost bobby is still here and the tank is dead.

MOVE ON!
Only pre-trade deadline!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[onions17]

Masai was absolutely on do nothing auto-pilot and did a terrible job to improve the team after the championship, to put it mildly.

This was actually a very good move to give this franchise a glimmer of hope.

These are the type of moves that have to be made as a GM in Toronto, whether they pan out or not. Anyone that plays it safe in this City shouldn't even be considered.

Hi Ed

[ConSarnit]

Masai was absolutely on do nothing auto-pilot and did a terrible job to improve the team after the championship, to put it mildly.

This was actually a very good move to give this franchise a glimmer of hope.

These are the type of moves that have to be made as a GM in Toronto, whether they pan out or not. Anyone that plays it safe in this City shouldn't even be considered.

If Masai was on auto-pilot then who was in charge during the past few years? The guy we just made president. Not exactly confidence inspiring.

[refshateRaps]

Masai was absolutely on do nothing auto-pilot and did a terrible job to improve the team after the championship, to put it mildly.

This was actually a very good move to give this franchise a glimmer of hope.

These are the type of moves that have to be made as a GM in Toronto, whether they pan out or not. Anyone that plays it safe in this City shouldn't even be considered.

If Masai was on auto-pilot then who was in charge during the past few years? The guy we just made president. Not exactly confidence inspiring.

I think everyone in the upper Org was ok and actually planned to be mediocre, until we failed at that. Then chit hit the fan. Masai got back involved to blow it up, blame others and save some face.

The reason we had success before is Masai came in with swag and energy to do whatever it takes to win in TO. We def need that same approach in someone willing to go "all in" at the right moments and not just accept mediocrity.

If Bobby is a yes man... we are in trouble

[Pointgod]

Are there actual updates on Ingram? How’s his health? Has he been seen in runs this summer?

[MEDIC]

Are there actual updates on Ingram? How’s his health? Has he been seen in runs this summer?

He has been cleared for full contact. He was active during summer league training. He said he played 5 on 5 in practice.

[CPT]

Where does healthy Ingram rank in a “I want to win one game/series and everyone is available” sense?

I hate to bring up Kawhi, because I think the situations, trades, and players are not really comparable, but he was probably considered top 10ish overall at the time, but was more like top 3 on the court.

We similarly got Ingram for cheap(ish), but when he’s on the court, should we be expecting top 20 impact? Top 50? I really have no idea.

[Dalek]

Where does healthy Ingram rank in a “I want to win one game/series and everyone is available” sense?

I hate to bring up Kawhi, because I think the situations, trades, and players are not really comparable, but he was probably considered top 10ish overall at the time, but was more like top 3 on the court.

We similarly got Ingram for cheap(ish), but when he’s on the court, should we be expecting top 20 impact? Top 50? I really have no idea.

I mean where did Ingram take New Orleans? He had Zion and a high level supporting cast: CJ, Herb Jones, Trey Murphy, JV, Dyson Daniels etc. Arguably better than what we have and offer way more spacing.

Expecting more from Ingram is tough to believe unless Darko unlocks his passion for taking care of his body and defensive skills. I kind of think he may end up like Rudy Gay if things don't work out.

[mihaic]

Where does healthy Ingram rank in a “I want to win one game/series and everyone is available” sense?

I hate to bring up Kawhi, because I think the situations, trades, and players are not really comparable, but he was probably considered top 10ish overall at the time, but was more like top 3 on the court.

We similarly got Ingram for cheap(ish), but when he’s on the court, should we be expecting top 20 impact? Top 50? I really have no idea.

In 3 different rankings (one is espn), I found him in top 50 3 or 4 spots behind Scottie.

[Harry Palmer]

Where does healthy Ingram rank in a “I want to win one game/series and everyone is available” sense?

I hate to bring up Kawhi, because I think the situations, trades, and players are not really comparable, but he was probably considered top 10ish overall at the time, but was more like top 3 on the court.

We similarly got Ingram for cheap(ish), but when he’s on the court, should we be expecting top 20 impact? Top 50? I really have no idea.

Ingram’s nowhere near Kawai’s level. BI’s highest WS was 5.3 in 2021. Kawai has never had a WS that low except the season he only played 9 games, and he’s had seasons of 12-13+. BI’s best VORP is 0.1 better than Kawai’s worst, his rookie season(excepting again the 9 game season), and he’s had multiple seasons where he was more than X BI’s best. BI has had one season where his ORtg was better than his DRtg, by 1 point. Kawai has never had a season where his ORtg wasn’t at least +10 on his DRtg. Not the same stratosphere. Otoh BI hasn’t already told everyone he’s heading to Cali, so…

[Los_29]

Where does healthy Ingram rank in a “I want to win one game/series and everyone is available” sense?

I hate to bring up Kawhi, because I think the situations, trades, and players are not really comparable, but he was probably considered top 10ish overall at the time, but was more like top 3 on the court.

We similarly got Ingram for cheap(ish), but when he’s on the court, should we be expecting top 20 impact? Top 50? I really have no idea.

Ingram’s nowhere near Kawai’s level. BI’s highest WS was 5.3 in 2021. Kawai has never had a WS that low except the season he only played 9 games, and he’s had seasons of 12-13+. BI’s best VORP is 0.1 better than Kawai’s worst, his rookie season(excepting again the 9 game season), and he’s had multiple seasons where he was more than X BI’s best. BI has had one season where his ORtg was better than his DRtg, by 1 point. Kawai has never had a season where his ORtg wasn’t at least +10 on his DRtg. Not the same stratosphere. Otoh BI hasn’t already told everyone he’s heading to Cali, so…

Definitely but at the time of the trade he was valued much lower than a top 10 player considering the year he had. He wasn’t good that year and his health was a major concern. They knew if he was healthy what he was capable of but that was no guarantee at the time which is why Masai was the only one willing to take that chance.

[CPT]

Where does healthy Ingram rank in a “I want to win one game/series and everyone is available” sense?

I hate to bring up Kawhi, because I think the situations, trades, and players are not really comparable, but he was probably considered top 10ish overall at the time, but was more like top 3 on the court.

We similarly got Ingram for cheap(ish), but when he’s on the court, should we be expecting top 20 impact? Top 50? I really have no idea.

Ingram’s nowhere near Kawai’s level. BI’s highest WS was 5.3 in 2021. Kawai has never had a WS that low except the season he only played 9 games, and he’s had seasons of 12-13+. BI’s best VORP is 0.1 better than Kawai’s worst, his rookie season(excepting again the 9 game season), and he’s had multiple seasons where he was more than X BI’s best. BI has had one season where his ORtg was better than his DRtg, by 1 point. Kawai has never had a season where his ORtg wasn’t at least +10 on his DRtg. Not the same stratosphere. Otoh BI hasn’t already told everyone he’s heading to Cali, so…

Oh, I think that goes without saying, which is why I said I didn’t even want to invoke Kawhi’s name in this thread.

I was just trying to connect the dots as in Kawhi was a top 3ish player on the court, rated more like top 10 (due to health), but acquired for a price way lower than that.

Ingram is rated around 50-80(?) because of injuries, we acquired him for a lower cost than that (I guess), but what level of talent is he strictly on the court? Top 20? 40?

It’s all a bit meaningless, but it’s also August in the Brandon Ingram thread .

[ash_k]

Where does healthy Ingram rank in a “I want to win one game/series and everyone is available” sense?

I hate to bring up Kawhi, because I think the situations, trades, and players are not really comparable, but he was probably considered top 10ish overall at the time, but was more like top 3 on the court.

We similarly got Ingram for cheap(ish), but when he’s on the court, should we be expecting top 20 impact? Top 50? I really have no idea.

If you had watched that series against the number one seed Suns like I had, you would not be asking yourself that question.
He looked like a future great in that series in his playoffs debut (healthy).

A lot of my excitement with getting BI comes from that series.

[CPT]

Where does healthy Ingram rank in a “I want to win one game/series and everyone is available” sense?

I hate to bring up Kawhi, because I think the situations, trades, and players are not really comparable, but he was probably considered top 10ish overall at the time, but was more like top 3 on the court.

We similarly got Ingram for cheap(ish), but when he’s on the court, should we be expecting top 20 impact? Top 50? I really have no idea.

If you had watched that series against the number one seed Suns like I had, you would not be asking yourself that question.
He looked like a future great in that series in his playoffs debut (healthy).

A lot of my excitement with getting BI comes from that series.

Cool, so where does he rank?

Should be a guaranteed all-star if healthy, right?

[MEDIC]

Where does healthy Ingram rank in a “I want to win one game/series and everyone is available” sense?

I hate to bring up Kawhi, because I think the situations, trades, and players are not really comparable, but he was probably considered top 10ish overall at the time, but was more like top 3 on the court.

We similarly got Ingram for cheap(ish), but when he’s on the court, should we be expecting top 20 impact? Top 50? I really have no idea.

I think at his best, he is a top 20 impact type player. Maybe even top 10 at times.

I view a healthy, prime Ingram as a player that is ranked above Derozan in terms of impact on winning. (Somewhere between DD & VC)

[TerryTate]

I think context needs to be considered when talking about BI injuries. Granted he is injury prone and we know that.

BUT in the 6 years (yes, I had to check that) he played with Zion. They had maybe 1.5 seasons of really playing together.
Do you think Ingram pulled a Bosh and extend his "injury time"? I mean why try when your team's #1 star and option is perpetually injured and overweight, why come back early from injury, the team is already so far behind in standings. After playing like 3 years with a coddled/overweight star (Zion), why bust his ass? Zion is just a modern day Cousins. Blessed with physical gifts, but lacks the willpower and determination to stay in shape and is always injured.

I think, one thing that really caught me in BI raptor interviews was his liveliness compared to interviews with Pelicans. It was like he didn't want to be there.

[GLF]

Does anyone know what BI’s stats were with Zion playing as opposed to when he didn’t over those 6 years? Bc he isn’t going to have a Zion level talent on this team, so it would be nice to know how he looked when he was the clear cut number 1. Was there a big drop off? Did his efficiency pretty much stay the same? Etc.

[Jerry Lucas]

Does anyone know what BI’s stats were with Zion playing as opposed to when he didn’t over those 6 years? Bc he isn’t going to have a Zion level talent on this team, so it would be nice to know how he looked when he was the clear cut number 1. Was there a big drop off? Did his efficiency pretty much stay the same? Etc.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=what+were+brandon+ingram%27s+stats+with+and+without+zion+williamson+as+a+pelican

Pretty evenly split sample sizes. Ingram played 151 games as a Pelican without Zion, and 154 games with.

24/6/5 on 57.1 TS% without
22/5/5 on 58.2 TS% with

His 3P shot volume would also decrease when Zion wasn't playing:

38.2% on 5.2 3PA per game with
36% on 4.7 3PA per game without

[ash_k]

Where does healthy Ingram rank in a “I want to win one game/series and everyone is available” sense?

I hate to bring up Kawhi, because I think the situations, trades, and players are not really comparable, but he was probably considered top 10ish overall at the time, but was more like top 3 on the court.

We similarly got Ingram for cheap(ish), but when he’s on the court, should we be expecting top 20 impact? Top 50? I really have no idea.

If you had watched that series against the number one seed Suns like I had, you would not be asking yourself that question.
He looked like a future great in that series in his playoffs debut (healthy).

A lot of my excitement with getting BI comes from that series.

Cool, so where does he rank?

Should be a guaranteed all-star if healthy, right?

In the East, when healthy is the 2nd best pure Small forward behind Jayson Tatum.
2 seasons ago, he essentially did 25|5|5|50|40|90. If he is as comfortable and healthy as he claims to be then we should all expect him to be close to those numbers again which would guarantee an All-Star spot with the team having that expected "winning-record"

[GLF]

Does anyone know what BI’s stats were with Zion playing as opposed to when he didn’t over those 6 years? Bc he isn’t going to have a Zion level talent on this team, so it would be nice to know how he looked when he was the clear cut number 1. Was there a big drop off? Did his efficiency pretty much stay the same? Etc.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=what+were+brandon+ingram%27s+stats+with+and+without+zion+williamson+as+a+pelican

Pretty evenly split sample sizes. Ingram played 151 games as a Pelican without Zion, and 154 games with.

Pretty much stayed the same, that’s nice to see. Thank you for this!