Suns/Warriors/Cavs - Kuminga to Phx

[gswhoops]

Not getting quality role players so Lacob can fail to sign Giannis in 2 years LFG

Joey Lightyears babaaaaaaaaaay

[gswhoops]

Not getting someone like Oneale isn't exactly hurting the team imo. I do think Lacob believes that the organization can attract major talent with a ton of cap space. It's basically the strategy he's setting up for both the Warriors and Valkyries

Hard disagree on this. We've seen in 2015 and again in 2022 how the right role players can elevate Steph/Dray to title contenders. O'Neale is the right type of role player - smart, unselfish, good shooter, good defender, offers lineup flexibility. He might be "worth less" than Kuminga but I'd bet that he contributes more to winning basketball games with this Warriors roster over the next 2 years than JK does.

Agree and agree to disagree I guess. Agreed GS needs those kind of role guys. Disagree Oneale is still on that level. Maybe a couple years ago, not now

O'Neale is better now than Otto Porter and Bjelica and GP2 were when we signed them, and those guys all played important roles on a title team.

What better player are you holding out for that you think we can get for JK?

[NW]

Hard disagree on this. We've seen in 2015 and again in 2022 how the right role players can elevate Steph/Dray to title contenders. O'Neale is the right type of role player - smart, unselfish, good shooter, good defender, offers lineup flexibility. He might be "worth less" than Kuminga but I'd bet that he contributes more to winning basketball games with this Warriors roster over the next 2 years than JK does.

Agree and agree to disagree I guess. Agreed GS needs those kind of role guys. Disagree Oneale is still on that level. Maybe a couple years ago, not now

O'Neale is better now than Otto Porter and Bjelica and GP2 were when we signed them, and those guys all played important roles on a title team.

What better player are you holding out for that you think we can get for JK?

I honestly think the Warriors could get someone with the NTMLE, if JK takes the QO, as good or better than ONeale at this stage. No way he was better than GP2 at that stage in 2022. GP2 was elite at a skill (POA defense) at that time. Oneale is not.
Personally, still holding out hope for the Bulls to settle things with Giddey and circle back to JK for Ayo

[gswhoops]

Agree and agree to disagree I guess. Agreed GS needs those kind of role guys. Disagree Oneale is still on that level. Maybe a couple years ago, not now

O'Neale is better now than Otto Porter and Bjelica and GP2 were when we signed them, and those guys all played important roles on a title team.

What better player are you holding out for that you think we can get for JK?

I honestly think the Warriors could get someone with the NTMLE, if JK takes the QO, as good or better than ONeale at this stage. No way he was better than GP2 at that stage in 2022. GP2 was elite at a skill (POA defense) at that time. Oneale is not.
Personally, still holding out hope for the Bulls to settle things with Giddey and circle back to JK for Ayo

This is a fair bit of 20/20 hindsight. GP2 was barely even an NBA player prior to 2021-22. He'd been bouncing between the G League and 15th roster spots for years. We almost signed a washed-up Avery Bradley over him.

[NW]

O'Neale is better now than Otto Porter and Bjelica and GP2 were when we signed them, and those guys all played important roles on a title team.

What better player are you holding out for that you think we can get for JK?

I honestly think the Warriors could get someone with the NTMLE, if JK takes the QO, as good or better than ONeale at this stage. No way he was better than GP2 at that stage in 2022. GP2 was elite at a skill (POA defense) at that time. Oneale is not.
Personally, still holding out hope for the Bulls to settle things with Giddey and circle back to JK for Ayo

This is a fair bit of 20/20 hindsight. GP2 was barely even an NBA player prior to 2021-22. He'd been bouncing between the G League and 15th roster spots for years. We almost signed a washed-up Avery Bradley over him.

What he was before the 22 season is irrelevant. We’re talking what he did in that season and he was better than Oneale is now

[gswhoops]

I honestly think the Warriors could get someone with the NTMLE, if JK takes the QO, as good or better than ONeale at this stage. No way he was better than GP2 at that stage in 2022. GP2 was elite at a skill (POA defense) at that time. Oneale is not.
Personally, still holding out hope for the Bulls to settle things with Giddey and circle back to JK for Ayo

This is a fair bit of 20/20 hindsight. GP2 was barely even an NBA player prior to 2021-22. He'd been bouncing between the G League and 15th roster spots for years. We almost signed a washed-up Avery Bradley over him.

What he was before the 22 season is irrelevant. We’re talking what he did in that season and he was better than Oneale is now

How is it irrelevant. GS has a long history of coaching veteran guys up and getting the most out of them. No reason O'Neale can't be the next one.

[LightTheBeam]

Can the suns afford to give Kuminga his contract using just Royce and Richards? I thought Allen has to be outgoing somewhere.

Royce and Richards combined are $15,125,000 in salary, which means they can take back $22,625,000 ($15,125,000 + $7,500,000) in salary and still comply with the trade matching rules. They'd be hardcapped at the first apron but idk if that's a live issue for them post Beal buyout.

If they can, this seems like the most likely outcome.
Pay Utah a 2nd or 2 to take Richards. Royce to GS, Kuminga to Phx. GS adds some forward depth and moves on from this mess.

This is my preferred outcome as well. O'Neale + a couple of 2nds is a win.

I'm not sure how much they like Kuminga, but I feel like that team should mess around with the hardcap. I'd be spending the year finding a way to shorten that Jalen Green contract, he isn't a guy id feel good about having next to Booker long term.

Maybe they think Green-Booker-Brooks-Kuminga-Maluach can work? But doesn't look great to me.

[daoneandonly]

Looks like this is heavily slanted in the SUns' favor. O'Neale is done

[ChuckDurn]

Can the suns afford to give Kuminga his contract using just Royce and Richards? I thought Allen has to be outgoing somewhere.

If they can, this seems like the most likely outcome.
Pay Utah a 2nd or 2 to take Richards. Royce to GS, Kuminga to Phx. GS adds some forward depth and moves on from this mess.

I think a question that I’m surprised to see nobody has asked is “Can the Warriors take back O’Neale and either Wade or Ball, and not end up getting hard-capped at the first apron, which hinders the rest of their team-building plans (even signing some of the rumored veteran free agents)?”

And I think the answer is “no”, which would make this a non-starter for them in the proposed form. (Because pretty clearly Sacramento is only going to pay Kuminga around $20M this year, and the Warriors can only take back half that amount to avoid capping themselves.)

I’m really torn about O’Neale as being a main return for Kuminga in a deal, but can’t really endorse it. Some of his stats (particularly 3-point shooting percentage) haven’t dropped off. But I looked at advanced stats, and tend to focus on True Shot %, and Win Shares / 48 minutes, and they’re not great. Amongst just players on the Suns, he was 12th in TS% (a couple of the guys above him didn’t play much) and 11th in WS/48 (same)…… Ironically, in the latter, he actually was higher than Beal. But any way I look at that, it says “9th man level player”, who is already 32 years old….. so I just wouldn’t do it.

[LightTheBeam]

Can the suns afford to give Kuminga his contract using just Royce and Richards? I thought Allen has to be outgoing somewhere.

If they can, this seems like the most likely outcome.
Pay Utah a 2nd or 2 to take Richards. Royce to GS, Kuminga to Phx. GS adds some forward depth and moves on from this mess.

I think a question that I’m surprised to see nobody has asked is “Can the Warriors take back O’Neale and either Wade or Ball, and not end up getting hard-capped at the first apron, which hinders the rest of their team-building plans (even signing some of the rumored veteran free agents)?”

And I think the answer is “no”, which would make this a non-starter for them in the proposed form. (Because pretty clearly Sacramento is only going to pay Kuminga around $20M this year, and the Warriors can only take back half that amount to avoid capping themselves.)

I’m really torn about O’Neale as being a main return for Kuminga in a deal, but can’t really endorse it. Some of his stats (particularly 3-point shooting percentage) haven’t dropped off. But I looked at advanced stats, and tend to focus on True Shot %, and Win Shares / 48 minutes, and they’re not great. Amongst just players on the Suns, he was 12th in TS% (a couple of the guys above him didn’t play much) and 11th in WS/48 (same)…… Ironically, in the latter, he actually was higher than Beal. But any way I look at that, it says “9th man level player”, who is already 32 years old….. so I just wouldn’t do it.

I hate to tell you, but that is the kind of offers for a 22 year old unproven player who doesn't want to be there. I kept saying getting Carter, Saric, and a protected 1st from Sac was a gift from a terrible org and GS should have snap accepted it. Even if Carter was awful his first year, he was hurt, and even as a dart throw he has more to show than a Royce. Adding a 1st for GS to do something with at the deadline was another benefit.

Don't see Kuminga returning as a positive solution but Lacob seems unwilling to make the right choice here.

[gswhoops]

Don't see Kuminga returning as a positive solution but Lacob seems unwilling to make the right choice here.

[NW]

Can the suns afford to give Kuminga his contract using just Royce and Richards? I thought Allen has to be outgoing somewhere.

If they can, this seems like the most likely outcome.
Pay Utah a 2nd or 2 to take Richards. Royce to GS, Kuminga to Phx. GS adds some forward depth and moves on from this mess.

I think a question that I’m surprised to see nobody has asked is “Can the Warriors take back O’Neale and either Wade or Ball, and not end up getting hard-capped at the first apron, which hinders the rest of their team-building plans (even signing some of the rumored veteran free agents)?”

And I think the answer is “no”, which would make this a non-starter for them in the proposed form. (Because pretty clearly Sacramento is only going to pay Kuminga around $20M this year, and the Warriors can only take back half that amount to avoid capping themselves.)

I’m really torn about O’Neale as being a main return for Kuminga in a deal, but can’t really endorse it. Some of his stats (particularly 3-point shooting percentage) haven’t dropped off. But I looked at advanced stats, and tend to focus on True Shot %, and Win Shares / 48 minutes, and they’re not great. Amongst just players on the Suns, he was 12th in TS% (a couple of the guys above him didn’t play much) and 11th in WS/48 (same)…… Ironically, in the latter, he actually was higher than Beal. But any way I look at that, it says “9th man level player”, who is already 32 years old….. so I just wouldn’t do it.

I hate to tell you, but that is the kind of offers for a 22 year old unproven player who doesn't want to be there. I kept saying getting Carter, Saric, and a protected 1st from Sac was a gift from a terrible org and GS should have snap accepted it. Even if Carter was awful his first year, he was hurt, and even as a dart throw he has more to show than a Royce. Adding a 1st for GS to do something with at the deadline was another benefit.

Don't see Kuminga returning as a positive solution but Lacob seems unwilling to make the right choice here.

The right choice isn’t a 6’2 guard that can’t shoot or run point but plays good defense (said before, GS got one of those already and he takes the vet min and makes Steph Curry laugh), Dario Saric’s corpse, a likely low first that is basically destined to be a glorified second rounder with a guaranteed contract or a guy like Malik Monk, who a team would want that first just to take his contract and will cost Hield or Moody and other draft capital

Sometimes nothing is better than something in this new CBA. Ask the Clippers.

Don’t think anyone expects more out of a return for Kuminga other than his $21 mil to make a bigger deal work financially - which seems to be Kuminga’s problem

[LightTheBeam]

I think a question that I’m surprised to see nobody has asked is “Can the Warriors take back O’Neale and either Wade or Ball, and not end up getting hard-capped at the first apron, which hinders the rest of their team-building plans (even signing some of the rumored veteran free agents)?”

And I think the answer is “no”, which would make this a non-starter for them in the proposed form. (Because pretty clearly Sacramento is only going to pay Kuminga around $20M this year, and the Warriors can only take back half that amount to avoid capping themselves.)

I’m really torn about O’Neale as being a main return for Kuminga in a deal, but can’t really endorse it. Some of his stats (particularly 3-point shooting percentage) haven’t dropped off. But I looked at advanced stats, and tend to focus on True Shot %, and Win Shares / 48 minutes, and they’re not great. Amongst just players on the Suns, he was 12th in TS% (a couple of the guys above him didn’t play much) and 11th in WS/48 (same)…… Ironically, in the latter, he actually was higher than Beal. But any way I look at that, it says “9th man level player”, who is already 32 years old….. so I just wouldn’t do it.

I hate to tell you, but that is the kind of offers for a 22 year old unproven player who doesn't want to be there. I kept saying getting Carter, Saric, and a protected 1st from Sac was a gift from a terrible org and GS should have snap accepted it. Even if Carter was awful his first year, he was hurt, and even as a dart throw he has more to show than a Royce. Adding a 1st for GS to do something with at the deadline was another benefit.

Don't see Kuminga returning as a positive solution but Lacob seems unwilling to make the right choice here.

The right choice isn’t a 6’2 guard that can’t shoot or run point but plays good defense (said before, GS got one of those already and he takes the vet min and makes Steph Curry laugh), Dario Saric’s corpse, a likely low first that is basically destined to be a glorified second rounder with a guaranteed contract or a guy like Malik Monk, who a team would want that first just to take his contract and will cost Hield or Moody and other draft capital

Sometimes nothing is better than something in this new CBA. Ask the Clippers.

Don’t think anyone expects more out of a return for Kuminga other than his $21 mil to make a bigger deal work financially - which seems to be Kuminga’s problem

I forgot that players ceilings are decided after playing 35 games next to LaVine/DeRozan coming off a shoulder surgery. You are right.

And the 1st being a lotto protected then conveying to a 2031 Minnesota unprotected 1st. Ya that's 100% "a glorified second rounder"

I can't take this seriously lol. I'm not even pushing for the trade, but the dishonestly is strange to me.

[NW]

I hate to tell you, but that is the kind of offers for a 22 year old unproven player who doesn't want to be there. I kept saying getting Carter, Saric, and a protected 1st from Sac was a gift from a terrible org and GS should have snap accepted it. Even if Carter was awful his first year, he was hurt, and even as a dart throw he has more to show than a Royce. Adding a 1st for GS to do something with at the deadline was another benefit.

Don't see Kuminga returning as a positive solution but Lacob seems unwilling to make the right choice here.

The right choice isn’t a 6’2 guard that can’t shoot or run point but plays good defense (said before, GS got one of those already and he takes the vet min and makes Steph Curry laugh), Dario Saric’s corpse, a likely low first that is basically destined to be a glorified second rounder with a guaranteed contract or a guy like Malik Monk, who a team would want that first just to take his contract and will cost Hield or Moody and other draft capital

Sometimes nothing is better than something in this new CBA. Ask the Clippers.

Don’t think anyone expects more out of a return for Kuminga other than his $21 mil to make a bigger deal work financially - which seems to be Kuminga’s problem

I forgot that players ceilings are decided after playing 35 games next to LaVine/DeRozan coming off a shoulder surgery. You are right.

And the 1st being a lotto protected then conveying to a 2031 Minnesota unprotected 1st. Ya that's 100% "a glorified second rounder"

I can't take this seriously lol. I'm not even pushing for the trade, but the dishonestly is strange to me.

I thought the pick was the Spurs in 2031? Because that is likely a glorified second barring Wemby further mutating into something illegal.

And suddenly Devin Carter is so loaded with potential the Kings, in dire need of youth for the core once the vet chuckers all leave, are giving up on him after one year.

Just like the value of Monk is so high they’d give this pick just to move him so Russ, who apparently has no other offers, can join.

Let me know where the dishonesty set in

[parsnips33]

Let's all take a deep breath and remember nobody in either front office gives a damn what we think

We're all on the same team here