Shams: Bobby Promoted to "Final Decision Maker of Basketball (still GM) " update pg. 27

[DelAbbot]

I definitely called the move to trade and then re-sign BI Masai's desperation / hail mary to stay relevant enough for him to get an extension at his expensive contract - despite being negligent for most parts of last 3-4 years

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An expiring contract, Kelly Olynyk who's been traded 2x since + a pick that belongs to the team that went on to the NBA finals is not a desperation move

Trading for and THEN paying BI an amount few other teams would, despite unclear fit with rest of our roster (particularly with Scottie Barnes) IS a desperation move.

This summer has proven the mid tier player market has collapsed - so much so that now IQ contract is way overpaid, and BI contract is looking overpaid

[elecblue]

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Ha! They thought criticizing the guy who got fired would land them the job and win over Pelley. Idiots!

who internally would leak this? is this org now going to be a gossip mill?

Lewenberg read it in his cheerios this morning

This disgusts me completely. People, of course this leak is from Pelley. Over Masai's tenure, whatever your opinion is on Masai, one thing I think everyone can agree on, Raptors do not leak stuff. Never. Unless the leak is intentional and benefits them. Also, this leak doesn't make Masai or the entire team look good, so it definitely didn't come from Bobby's team. Not to mention, most of them wouldn't know what the candidates said anyway. Then, I seriously doubt that Lewenberg has enough connection to get multiple candidates to admit that they questioned Masai's moves - there's no benefit at all to these candidates to potentially offend Masai, who's clearly still a powerful figure in the NBA.

Obviously, Pelley or his team leaked this. It's so logical too. For the candidates, they already know Pelley fired Masai, and they need to beat Bobby for the job, there's all the reasons in the world for them to be critical of Masai and Bobby's moves. What, do you think they would defend Masai? That would only hurt their chances of landing the job. Then, Pelley gives Lewerberg this "exclusive" as a favor. Visually, It makes Pelley's decision to fire Masai seem like a good move, since these smart basketball minds are also critical of Masai.

Pelley, we see right through your BS.

[mihaic]

What are you talking about? Ochai is on last year of rookie scale this year and need new contract for next year. He is not taking a Qualifying offer next year. He will sign MLE offer sheets instead if thats all we are offering

Let him sign it, we can match it. Odds are he doesn't get the MLE. No need to keep overpaying to keep average players.

Sure but doing so will still put us in a tax problem unless we are trading RJ. NAW, LeVert and Robinson got around or above MLE this year as a comp.

They have a year and a half to trade someone.

As for those guys cited, they are more established than Ochai. Perhaps waiting can give a better result, a cheaper resigned Ochai which can be traded after.

[HiJiNX]

I definitely called the move to trade and then re-sign BI Masai's desperation / hail mary to stay relevant enough for him to get an extension at his expensive contract - despite being negligent for most parts of last 3-4 years

Read on Twitter

An expiring contract, Kelly Olynyk who's been traded 2x since + a pick that belongs to the team that went on to the NBA finals is not a desperation move

Trading for and THEN paying BI an amount few other teams would, despite unclear fit with rest of our roster (particularly with Scottie Barnes) IS a desperation move.

This summer has proven the mid tier player market has collapsed - so much so that now IQ contract is way overpaid, and BI contract is looking overpaid

I think you should wait to see how this team operates before making sweeping statements about people being overpaid, especially a guy who hasn’t played for us yet and another guy who couldn’t even string 20 games together because of bad injury luck.

[HiJiNX]

who internally would leak this? is this org now going to be a gossip mill?

Lewenberg read it in his cheerios this morning

This disgusts me completely. People, of course this leak is from Pelley. Over Masai's tenure, whatever your opinion is on Masai, one thing I think everyone can agree on, Raptors do not leak stuff. Never. Unless the leak is intentional and benefits them. Also, this leak doesn't make Masai or the entire team look good, so it definitely didn't come from Bobby's team. Not to mention, most of them wouldn't know what the candidates said anyway. Then, I seriously doubt that Lewenberg has enough connection to get multiple candidates to admit that they questioned Masai's moves - there's no benefit at all to these candidates to potentially offend Masai, who's clearly still a powerful figure in the NBA.

Obviously, Pelley or his team leaked this. It's so logical too. For the candidates, they already know Pelley fired Masai, and they need to beat Bobby for the job, there's all the reasons in the world for them to be critical of Masai and Bobby's moves. What, do you think they would defend Masai? That would only hurt their chances of landing the job. Then, Pelley gives Lewerberg this "exclusive" as a favor. Visually, It makes Pelley's decision to fire Masai seem like a good move, since these smart basketball minds are also critical of Masai.

Pelley, we see right through your BS.

These guys — Rogers and Pelley and their ilk — are going to kill the culture of this basketball team.

[OAKLEY_2]

And next year there is no tax problem, so no repeater issue to worry about. The only reason they are going to duck under the tax this year is Rogers is cheap.

The tax payments to non tax teams is dropping dramatically as tax teams get under the 2nd apron. So yes, aprons are becoming a bigger driver than the tax. Or the aprons are giving owners the excuse to drop their tax commitments/payments.

There is a tax problem next year if we re-sign agbaji and barrett is still here

They would have to re-sign Agbaji to create the problem. If they don't sign him, no problem. Or alternatively, if they trade him at the deadline for a pick, no problem in both years.

Exactly. Agbaji who has proved any doubters wrong is the likely victim of any tax crunch. He will have deadline trade value. Barrett at current pay is actually good value. The mistake to me was paying IQ and am sure the is going to be an asterisk beside his name going forward especially so if he cannot stay healthy.

[ForeverTFC]

An expiring contract, Kelly Olynyk who's been traded 2x since + a pick that belongs to the team that went on to the NBA finals is not a desperation move

Trading for and THEN paying BI an amount few other teams would, despite unclear fit with rest of our roster (particularly with Scottie Barnes) IS a desperation move.

This summer has proven the mid tier player market has collapsed - so much so that now IQ contract is way overpaid, and BI contract is looking overpaid

I think you should wait to see how this team operates before making sweeping statements about people being overpaid, especially a guy who hasn’t played for us yet and another guy who couldn’t even string 20 games together because of bad injury luck.

Not to rush to Del’s defense, but he’s not wrong here. The IQ deal has definitely become above market now and Ingram had no shot at &40m on the open market.

With that said, it is disingenuous to judge the IQ deal at today’s standard as it was largely negotiated prior to the trade and was priced under those realities.

[JB7]

Trading for and THEN paying BI an amount few other teams would, despite unclear fit with rest of our roster (particularly with Scottie Barnes) IS a desperation move.

This summer has proven the mid tier player market has collapsed - so much so that now IQ contract is way overpaid, and BI contract is looking overpaid

I think you should wait to see how this team operates before making sweeping statements about people being overpaid, especially a guy who hasn’t played for us yet and another guy who couldn’t even string 20 games together because of bad injury luck.

Not to rush to Del’s defense, but he’s not wrong here. The IQ deal has definitely become above market now and Ingram had no shot at &40m on the open market.

With that’s said, it is disingenuous to judge the IQ deal at today’s standard as it was largely negotiated prior to the trade and was priced under those realities.

I would even argue that in the BI deal, Masai & Bobby knew they were probably going to overpay relative to the FA market, and the ability of teams to offer BI a FA deal, but that was necessary to get the trade done. The reason BI went for so little was his salary demands. He essentially was picking his next team, that was willing to pay that contract, and therefore it lowered his overall return. Similar to the Pascal situation. The bonus for the Raps is the contract is only 2+1 for a player just turning 28. Pacers had to max Pascal for 4 years, and he was 30 at the time.

Raps also couldn't take the risk of BI going into FA, and trying to negotiate harder, based on the experience with FVV. All it takes is one team to offer a deal, and who knows if the Nets decide to spend their cap space on BI.

Raps were using the advantage they had in not only having cap space, but the deeper pockets of a richer team to take advantage of the cap space. New Orleans was dumping BI because they could not afford him, along with their other contracts.

[Smalltown]

This has to be a Rogers leak, right?

For those in the front and again for those in the back... Josh Lewenberg has no sources. None. Never has. He just regurgitates stuff shared by other "insiders" who mostly have no sources either. This is all speculation on his part. It may be true... it may not. But it's not anything more than speculation.

[PushDaRock]

I want to get in the minds of everyone who wanted Masai fired and want to see what they thought would happen
All aboard the Magic School bus!

I wanted to see Masai get humbled (demoted / cut to his salary) - and I did say Masai should be fired, during my many emotional outbursts (when the tank was in trouble).

I didn't ask for the Shapkins era - which is what we are going to get for the Raptors.

I didn't notice any emotional outbursts

[Tripod]

Can't wait for this season and see all the idiots be "surprised" by the Raps and realize their contracts are nowhere near as bad as they are spewing they are.

Though they will never admit it.....whatever.

[mihaic]

This has to be a Rogers leak, right?

For those in the front and again for those in the back... Josh Lewenberg has no sources. None. Never has. He just regurgitates stuff shared by other "insiders" who mostly have no sources either. This is all speculation on his part. It may be true... it may not. But it's not anything more than speculation.

How can you be so sure it's speculation. It's too specific, he could get in trouble with the Raptors office if he lies about it like that.

[PushDaRock]

Trading for and THEN paying BI an amount few other teams would, despite unclear fit with rest of our roster (particularly with Scottie Barnes) IS a desperation move.

This summer has proven the mid tier player market has collapsed - so much so that now IQ contract is way overpaid, and BI contract is looking overpaid

I think you should wait to see how this team operates before making sweeping statements about people being overpaid, especially a guy who hasn’t played for us yet and another guy who couldn’t even string 20 games together because of bad injury luck.

Not to rush to Del’s defense, but he’s not wrong here. The IQ deal has definitely become above market now and Ingram had no shot at &40m on the open market.

With that’s said, it is disingenuous to judge the IQ deal at today’s standard as it was largely negotiated prior to the trade and was priced under those realities.

We are also judging the IQ deal off an injury plagued year on top of it being done in different circumstances.

BI would clearly not get 40m in AAV this summer, but would the trade get done without the extension in place? I would say it's unlikely from both sides. Paying for a rental when we weren't even trying to make the playoffs doesn't make much sense and Rich Paul probably only approved of the trade because we were willing to pay him what they were looking for. It was a reasonable number at the time it was signed, but obviously the market has changed since then.

[Zeno]

This has to be a Rogers leak, right?

For those in the front and again for those in the back... Josh Lewenberg has no sources. None. Never has. He just regurgitates stuff shared by other "insiders" who mostly have no sources either. This is all speculation on his part. It may be true... it may not. But it's not anything more than speculation.

How can you be so sure it's speculation. It's too specific, he could get in trouble with the Raptors office if he lies about it like that.

I was going to ask if he has a source that he has no source. Has he seen the dart board? Does he know for a fact the Lewenberg didn’t call some candidates like Casey and Pritchard and ask about the process?

[LarSiN]

Ingram trade was a no brainer and I'm glad we didn't hire whoever was pre-dismissing it before he even plays here.

[ForeverTFC]

I think you should wait to see how this team operates before making sweeping statements about people being overpaid, especially a guy who hasn’t played for us yet and another guy who couldn’t even string 20 games together because of bad injury luck.

Not to rush to Del’s defense, but he’s not wrong here. The IQ deal has definitely become above market now and Ingram had no shot at &40m on the open market.

With that’s said, it is disingenuous to judge the IQ deal at today’s standard as it was largely negotiated prior to the trade and was priced under those realities.

We are also judging the IQ deal off an injury plagued year on top of it being done in different circumstances.

BI would clearly not get 40m in AAV this summer, but would the trade get done without the extension in place? I would say it's unlikely from both sides. Paying for a rental when we weren't even trying to make the playoffs doesn't make much sense and Rich Paul probably only approved of the trade because we were willing to pay him what they were looking for. It was a reasonable number at the time it was signed, but obviously the market has changed since then.

BI can definitely live up to his contract - he's done it in the past. IQ, I'm not sure. We need a step change from him to justify the contract now. When we gave him that contract, I think the higher end of what he was capable of was enough to justify the contract.

[Thaddy]

Ingram trade was a no brainer and I'm glad we didn't hire whoever was pre-dismissing it before he even plays here.

Got a all star for next to nothing

[Quattro]

An expiring contract, Kelly Olynyk who's been traded 2x since + a pick that belongs to the team that went on to the NBA finals is not a desperation move

Trading for and THEN paying BI an amount few other teams would, despite unclear fit with rest of our roster (particularly with Scottie Barnes) IS a desperation move.

This summer has proven the mid tier player market has collapsed - so much so that now IQ contract is way overpaid, and BI contract is looking overpaid

I think you should wait to see how this team operates before making sweeping statements about people being overpaid, especially a guy who hasn’t played for us yet and another guy who couldn’t even string 20 games together because of bad injury luck.

Nah. Not how he operates.

Laughing at how this story is being spun out there now. Trash sites like raptors rapture (the only place that gives this site a run for its money In terms of stupidity) are now claiming that candidates "ran for the hills" after complaining of the teams roster construction. Right. So they interviewed for the job knowing how the team was built only to trash ujiri to management and withdraw their interest.

Just another example of how this team is run now gentlemen. This leak is clearly out there to smear Ujiri and everyone knows the team is the source. More than a decade of nothing leaking from our front office and now this? Welcome to 2005 all over again. Enjoy.

[Tha Cynic]

So last year management works to build back team culture and by all accounts players are meshing well. This year there are politics involved again.

Oh, to make this even better, the politics are targeting Ingram indirectly by trying to go after Masai. Awesome stuff. Very competent ownership from the looks of things.

[ConSarnit]

I think you should wait to see how this team operates before making sweeping statements about people being overpaid, especially a guy who hasn’t played for us yet and another guy who couldn’t even string 20 games together because of bad injury luck.

Not to rush to Del’s defense, but he’s not wrong here. The IQ deal has definitely become above market now and Ingram had no shot at &40m on the open market.

With that’s said, it is disingenuous to judge the IQ deal at today’s standard as it was largely negotiated prior to the trade and was priced under those realities.

I would even argue that in the BI deal, Masai & Bobby knew they were probably going to overpay relative to the FA market, and the ability of teams to offer BI a FA deal, but that was necessary to get the trade done. The reason BI went for so little was his salary demands. He essentially was picking his next team, that was willing to pay that contract, and therefore it lowered his overall return. Similar to the Pascal situation. The bonus for the Raps is the contract is only 2+1 for a player just turning 28. Pacers had to max Pascal for 4 years, and he was 30 at the time.

Raps also couldn't take the risk of BI going into FA, and trying to negotiate harder, based on the experience with FVV. All it takes is one team to offer a deal, and who knows if the Nets decide to spend their cap space on BI.

Raps were using the advantage they had in not only having cap space, but the deeper pockets of a richer team to take advantage of the cap space. New Orleans was dumping BI because they could not afford him, along with their other contracts.

How is this a bonus for us? We paid him at the top of his market and he has a player option. If things go well for Ingram he opts out and we’re staring down Ingram as a possible expiring in a year. If they don’t go well (he’s injured) then he opts in and we’re stuck paying him $40m.

2+1 player option contracts are not team friendly.