Fisher: Raptors are still shopping RJ Barrett and Immanuel Quickley

[oldncreaky]

Doesn't Markkanen play PF like Scottie? How would that work?

BTW I did not watch Utah garbage team lately. Is Markkanen doing so good that people would trade Scottie for him?

Markkhanen last season in Utah: 47 games on a tanking team, 19/6/1 on mediocre efficiency.

As everyone knows who watched the Raptors last year, it is hard to draw conclusions either good or bad from a tanking squad -- but 19/6/1 is kinda damning.

Utah fans keep trying to talk Detroit fans into trading for Markkhanen, but I'm not biting. I don't think he's anywhere close to the tier of Garland or Scottie; I think he's more like a (younger) Tobias Harris tier of player.

I just don’t see that big of a gap (if any) between Markkanen and Ingram. Maybe when Lauri was making $20m but now he’s on a max deal. He also has injury issues.

Lauri might be a slight upgrade to Ingram but he also costs more. He’s not a needle mover on this team if we are just swapping out Ingram for him.

I'll start by stating that I'm not that high on BI, and wondered what people were smoking a couple of seasons back when IIRC there were suggested trades of Siakam++ for Ingram. I just don't see Ingram as a top tier (top 10-15ish) offensive lead, and because of that I think he caps the teams ceiling at a first round playoff exit.

But I think BI is a far better overall player than Markkhanen. Not close IMO, and Eurobasket won't change my mind. Utah fans keep trying to suggest to Detroit fans some version of Ivey or Holland for Markkhanen, and I'm not interested in those proposals -- so I'd be completely negative on trading BI for Markkhanen

[VanWest82]

Markkhanen last season in Utah: 47 games on a tanking team, 19/6/1 on mediocre efficiency.

As everyone knows who watched the Raptors last year, it is hard to draw conclusions either good or bad from a tanking squad -- but 19/6/1 is kinda damning.

Utah fans keep trying to talk Detroit fans into trading for Markkhanen, but I'm not biting. I don't think he's anywhere close to the tier of Garland or Scottie; I think he's more like a (younger) Tobias Harris tier of player.

I just don’t see that big of a gap (if any) between Markkanen and Ingram. Maybe when Lauri was making $20m but now he’s on a max deal. He also has injury issues.

Lauri might be a slight upgrade to Ingram but he also costs more. He’s not a needle mover on this team if we are just swapping out Ingram for him.

I'll start by stating that I'm not that high on BI, and wondered what people were smoking a couple of seasons back when IIRC there were suggested trades of Siakam++ for Ingram. I just don't see Ingram as a top tier (top 10-15ish) offensive lead, and because of that I think he caps the teams ceiling at a first round playoff exit.

But I think BI is a far better overall player than Markkhanen. Not close IMO, and Eurobasket won't change my mind. Utah fans keep trying to suggest to Detroit fans some version of Ivey or Holland for Markkhanen, and I'm not interested in those proposals -- so I'd be completely negative on trading BI for Markkhanen

I'd do it. To be clear, I'd rather see what we have first before pulling the trigger on any trades that aren't no-doubt-about-it slam dunks, but the fit of Markkhanen (in theory, if he can stay healthy) around some combination of Scottie/CMB/RJ/Ochai/Gradey/JKW/Quick is really enticing.

Some of those guys would surely be included in the deal, and if it's CMB who they'd surely insist upon then it's no dice, but if we could get it done for BI+Gradey+1st (maybe add 2nds) where BI gets re-routed to a third team then we'd have to look at it imo. That team would crush on offense.

[tsherkin]

:D RJ as a Raptor / yet he's the burden here?
Here's a breakdown of his stats as a Raptor:
Points per Game: 21.3
Rebounds per Game: 6.3
Assists per Game: 4.9
Steals per Game: 0.8 (for the 2024-25 season)
Minutes per Game: 32.2 (for the 2024-25 season)
Games Played: 90
Field Goal Percentage: 46.8%
Three-Point Percentage: 35.0

Yes, volume without efficiency. Coupled to weak defense. He has improved his passing, and he's acceptable-ish from 3 if we let him use the corner. I notice you haven't posted his TS% or his FT%, and that you cherry picked some stats for 2025 and some over his entire time as a Raptor, as well.

It's 2025, man. Just posting raw box score stats isn't going to gain much traction.

[ForeverTFC]

There seems to be more of a connection between RJ and Masai than maybe Bobby. I wonder if Bobby will just flip RJ for salary savings now that he is the boss.

What connection? Masai never brought up RJ when discussing the future of the team. He was always a salary filler.

If RJ was actually considered salary filler then taking him on was really bad business. Who willingly takes on 2.5 years of salary filler? 2.5 years of filler just to get IQ?

Well you need salary matching to make trades in the NBA so one way or another we would have had to take salary back. But I should be more clear, RJ was salary filler with some upside. And it's a big salary which previously was necessary for making trades in the NBA, though the value of these contracts from a trade perspective has also gone down in the last year...

[Basketball_Jones]

I think IQ is a decent stop gap for now. We don’t have suitable replacements so i doubt we’re shopping too hard on him. RJ yeah we are doing the pump and dump thing and putting our faith in Gradey/Walters/Martin/hell even Lawson I’d be comfortable in seeing what we have there where RJ is taking minutes.

[djsunyc]

There seems to be more of a connection between RJ and Masai than maybe Bobby. I wonder if Bobby will just flip RJ for salary savings now that he is the boss.

rj's dad used to bring him to raptors practices when he was younger.

[Raps in 4]

Ignore me

[tsherkin]

I mean, he's had multiple seasons with 60+ TS% and 20+ USG%, including two of the last three seasons.

No, he hasn't. Barrett's had a single partial season of 60%+ TS and every other phase of his career has been marked by below league-average efficiency beyond those 32 games.

[Raps in 4]

I mean, he's had multiple seasons with 60+ TS% and 20+ USG%, including two of the last three seasons.

No, he hasn't. Barrett's had a single partial season of 60%+ TS and every other phase of his career has been marked by below league-average efficiency beyond those 32 games.

Oh, my bad. I thought you were talking about Lauri. I shouldn't read Realgm on my phone lol.

[DreamTeam09]

:D RJ as a Raptor / yet he's the burden here?
Here's a breakdown of his stats as a Raptor:
Points per Game: 21.3
Rebounds per Game: 6.3
Assists per Game: 4.9
Steals per Game: 0.8 (for the 2024-25 season)
Minutes per Game: 32.2 (for the 2024-25 season)
Games Played: 90
Field Goal Percentage: 46.8%
Three-Point Percentage: 35.0

Yes, volume without efficiency. Coupled to weak defense. He has improved his passing, and he's acceptable-ish from 3 if we let him use the corner. I notice you haven't posted his TS% or his FT%, and that you cherry picked some stats for 2025 and some over his entire time as a Raptor, as well.

It's 2025, man. Just posting raw box score stats isn't going to gain much traction.

47% FG is inefficient to you? It's 2025, posting adv stats without context isn't going to get it done either. RJ has done everything we have asked from him with room to grow being only 25

[JB7]

I just don’t see that big of a gap (if any) between Markkanen and Ingram. Maybe when Lauri was making $20m but now he’s on a max deal. He also has injury issues.

Lauri might be a slight upgrade to Ingram but he also costs more. He’s not a needle mover on this team if we are just swapping out Ingram for him.

I'll start by stating that I'm not that high on BI, and wondered what people were smoking a couple of seasons back when IIRC there were suggested trades of Siakam++ for Ingram. I just don't see Ingram as a top tier (top 10-15ish) offensive lead, and because of that I think he caps the teams ceiling at a first round playoff exit.

But I think BI is a far better overall player than Markkhanen. Not close IMO, and Eurobasket won't change my mind. Utah fans keep trying to suggest to Detroit fans some version of Ivey or Holland for Markkhanen, and I'm not interested in those proposals -- so I'd be completely negative on trading BI for Markkhanen

I'd do it. To be clear, I'd rather see what we have first before pulling the trigger on any trades that aren't no-doubt-about-it slam dunks, but the fit of Markkhanen (in theory, if he can stay healthy) around some combination of Scottie/CMB/RJ/Ochai/Gradey/JKW/Quick is really enticing.

Some of those guys would surely be included in the deal, and if it's CMB who they'd surely insist upon then it's no dice, but if we could get it done for BI+Gradey+1st (maybe add 2nds) where BI gets re-routed to a third team then we'd have to look at it imo. That team would crush on offense.

Yes, this is kind of what I was thinking of the Markkanen proposal. Surrounding Scottie with elite shooters (Lauri & IQ, plus maybe Dick). RJ's efficiency could also improve, if he reverts to the style of game he played when he first joined the Raps (focused on drives and open 3's).

Plus, at 7 feet and 240lbs, Markkanen could play the C role at times, with Scottie and CMB out on the floor with him.

Trade could be:
- BI to Cavs (logic is Cavs want to go away from the small backcourt, but still need a 2nd option who can handle the ball)
- Markkanen to Raps (elite shooter, as mentioned above. His first two breakout seasons with Utah, his TS% was .640 & .630)
- Garland, Mogbo & Agbaji to Utah (Garland gives Jazz a younger player and floor general, with all the young assets. Plus, they can rest him this season, since they are trying to tank. Mogbo & Agbaji are salary filler, with Mogbo getting a bit more of an opportunity with the Jazz)

[tsherkin]

Oh, my bad. I thought you were talking about Lauri. I shouldn't read Realgm on my phone lol.

We've all done it!

47% FG is inefficient to you? It's 2025, posting adv stats without context isn't going to get it done either. RJ has done everything we have asked from him with room to grow being only 25

Yes. He was VERY inefficient. Barrett was 2.9% below league-average efficiency; he had an awful year. You cannot evaluate efficiency merely with FG%. it is no longer the 1960s, man.

[JB7]

Oh, my bad. I thought you were talking about Lauri. I shouldn't read Realgm on my phone lol.

We've all done it!

47% FG is inefficient to you? It's 2025, posting adv stats without context isn't going to get it done either. RJ has done everything we have asked from him with room to grow being only 25

Yes. He was VERY inefficient. Barrett was 2.9% below league-average efficiency; he had an awful year. You cannot evaluate efficiency merely with FG%. it is no longer the 1960s, man.

RJ's most efficient year, was his first with the Raps. He not only shot less, than he did last season, but he actually averaged more points per game (his highest pts per game in a season). It gives Darko all the proof he needs to convince RJ that style of play will be what gets him paid. Simple game, take the open drives or open 3's. Otherwise, move the ball.

[tsherkin]

RJ's most efficient year, was his first with the Raps. He not only shot less, than he did last season, but he actually averaged more points per game (his highest pts per game in a season). It gives Darko all the proof he needs to convince RJ that style of play will be what gets him paid. Simple game, take the open drives or open 3's. Otherwise, move the ball.

Well, his most efficient 32 games, anyway. Yes, he shot less, and he shot almost nothing but inside 10 feet and 3s, which is critical. He is basically useless between those spaces (and from 3, basically only okay from the right corner). He was passing better this year, and was less of a disaster on D, which was also nice. Now if we can combine those two seasons together, where he shoots less but on higher efficiency, defends at an average-ish level and is clicking from the corner while hitting his FTs, then we've got something to work with, for sure.

[tanuki1031]

Trading a top 60-80 NBA player paid as a top 40 guy (BI) plus a young asset and FRP for a top 50-60 NBA player paid as a top 20 guy is the dumb kind of **** Joe Dumars would do.

Step two would be dumping RJ's terrible contract and terrible on-court production for an upgrade in Zach Lavine, probably. Don't rule out RJ + FRPs for Cam Thomas either.

[Jerry Lucas]

A couple of Markkanen to the Raps salary matching scenarios that would make sense to me are:

1) Raptors get Markkanen and Monk
Jazz get IQ, Ochai, and Saric
Kings get RJ

New starting 5 would be Monk/Scottie/Ingram/Markkanen/Poeltl

2) Raptors get Markkanen and Kessler
Jazz get RJ, Poeltl and Ochai

New starting 5 would be IQ/Scottie/Ingram/Markkanen/Kessler

[Got Nuffin]

RJ's most efficient year, was his first with the Raps. He not only shot less, than he did last season, but he actually averaged more points per game (his highest pts per game in a season). It gives Darko all the proof he needs to convince RJ that style of play will be what gets him paid. Simple game, take the open drives or open 3's. Otherwise, move the ball.

Well, his most efficient 32 games, anyway. Yes, he shot less, and he shot almost nothing but inside 10 feet and 3s, which is critical. He is basically useless between those spaces (and from 3, basically only okay from the right corner). He was passing better this year, and was less of a disaster on D, which was also nice. Now if we can combine those two seasons together, where he shoots less but on higher efficiency, defends at an average-ish level and is clicking from the corner while hitting his FTs, then we've got something to work with, for sure.

I'm not bull-ish on RJ by any means and am very open to trading him, but I do think that most people including the front office are expecting exactly that to happen this season. All of our more veteran guys (other than Poeltl) had poor years statistically last season but some of that is a result of us rolling out g league rosters for half the season with rookies and fringe guys who had no idea wtf they were doing out there, and then sitting half the roster via injury for another chunk of the season.

I don't know if RJ can put the two together, but it's what everyone is expecting imo and it's on him to prove it. Honestly, if Ingram works out here it's tough to see RJ in a permanent role even if he does play to his full potential, but it would sure make things interesting.

[Brinbe]

There's a window where you can probably play RJ as a primary bench option for 20-25 mins a game against mostly reserve opposition where he can win his minutes over inferior comp (kinda like a super destitute man's Ginobili) but the question is if he'll be worth what he'll want to be paid on a new contract for that role and that's where the dilemma lies. As is, as we've seen around the association, the value of scoring guards/wings who aren't top-tier defenders is pretty low as they're a plentiful commodity.

Considering they already have a plethora of cheap young guards/forwards in house, some of whom, like Walter, project as better shooters/defenders, so it's easy to see why RJ would be the one on the move. Again, the bigger question is what they'd be looking at in terms of a return. An upgrade, future assets or is simply clearing that money the prime objective?

Regardless, the writing is on the wall here. And it makes sense objectively but people may be looking at things with some passport considerations in mind which will cloud things. Ochai potentially in the same boat but I guess they'll see how he looks and if that 3-ball is real or not.

[ConSarnit]

Oh, my bad. I thought you were talking about Lauri. I shouldn't read Realgm on my phone lol.

We've all done it!

47% FG is inefficient to you? It's 2025, posting adv stats without context isn't going to get it done either. RJ has done everything we have asked from him with room to grow being only 25

Yes. He was VERY inefficient. Barrett was 2.9% below league-average efficiency; he had an awful year. You cannot evaluate efficiency merely with FG%. it is no longer the 1960s, man.

RJ's most efficient year, was his first with the Raps. He not only shot less, than he did last season, but he actually averaged more points per game (his highest pts per game in a season). It gives Darko all the proof he needs to convince RJ that style of play will be what gets him paid. Simple game, take the open drives or open 3's. Otherwise, move the ball.

I have major doubts that RJ is going to get paid on his next contract. I don’t know if he can get above league average efficiency even if he’s back to 23/24 RJ (in terms of shot diet).

RJ shot 9% better at the rim in those 32 games than he has in any other season of his career. That feels like an outlier. If he can get to league average efficiency that helps but with the way the league is going middling efficiency volume scoring guards who have defensive issues aren’t exactly in high demand.

[UnbelievablyRAW]

Been trying to manifest IQ + Mogbo to LAL for Reaves in a S&T next year. Think he has more upside as a scorer and has been a number 2 in the playoffs next to LBJ and has done pretty well. Easy contender for guy who's counting stats are being limited by his role; having to play next to Lebron and Luka