Shams: Bobby Promoted to "Final Decision Maker of Basketball (still GM) " update pg. 27

[ConSarnit]

Lewenberg read it in his cheerios this morning

This disgusts me completely. People, of course this leak is from Pelley. Over Masai's tenure, whatever your opinion is on Masai, one thing I think everyone can agree on, Raptors do not leak stuff. Never. Unless the leak is intentional and benefits them. Also, this leak doesn't make Masai or the entire team look good, so it definitely didn't come from Bobby's team. Not to mention, most of them wouldn't know what the candidates said anyway. Then, I seriously doubt that Lewenberg has enough connection to get multiple candidates to admit that they questioned Masai's moves - there's no benefit at all to these candidates to potentially offend Masai, who's clearly still a powerful figure in the NBA.

Obviously, Pelley or his team leaked this. It's so logical too. For the candidates, they already know Pelley fired Masai, and they need to beat Bobby for the job, there's all the reasons in the world for them to be critical of Masai and Bobby's moves. What, do you think they would defend Masai? That would only hurt their chances of landing the job. Then, Pelley gives Lewerberg this "exclusive" as a favor. Visually, It makes Pelley's decision to fire Masai seem like a good move, since these smart basketball minds are also critical of Masai.

Pelley, we see right through your BS.

These guys — Rogers and Pelley and their ilk — are going to kill the culture of this basketball team.

If these guys are willing to leak this then we are screwed. This leak hurts Ingrams value. If they’re willing to harm the value of our current roster to win the PR game we’re in for a long ride. No smart ownership would have leaked this.

[WuTang_CMB]

If Pelley/ownership are leaking this nonsense and trying to sabotage, that's really bad. I don't know. Casey was always close with the media, wouldn't shock me if he told this to Lewenberg who loves to put out drama - so it wouldn't shock me either if he got it from Casey or he could have just made it up himself. Who's holding Josh accountable? Nobody. Because our local media stinks aside from Raps Republic. But we do know Grange's quotes were from Pelley directly (he talks exactly what was put out).

Now that they chose Bobby, I hope the waters can now settle. The team needs to have a good season, can't get around it.

Wishing Bobby and Darko the best moving forward.

[Reeko]

I don't think this was a Rogers leak, unless you believe that one of the people who lambasted the trade was Bobby himself. If it wasn't Bobby and he doesn't feel that way about the trade then why would Rogers go on to extend/promote someone who feels positively about the Ingram trade, when they (Rogers) do not? It makes no sense for ownership to smear Masai for a trade that his GM was in accordance with and then go on to promote said GM.

When I saw the quote I immediately thought Casey, and maybe Eversley.

[JB7]

Not to rush to Del’s defense, but he’s not wrong here. The IQ deal has definitely become above market now and Ingram had no shot at &40m on the open market.

With that’s said, it is disingenuous to judge the IQ deal at today’s standard as it was largely negotiated prior to the trade and was priced under those realities.

I would even argue that in the BI deal, Masai & Bobby knew they were probably going to overpay relative to the FA market, and the ability of teams to offer BI a FA deal, but that was necessary to get the trade done. The reason BI went for so little was his salary demands. He essentially was picking his next team, that was willing to pay that contract, and therefore it lowered his overall return. Similar to the Pascal situation. The bonus for the Raps is the contract is only 2+1 for a player just turning 28. Pacers had to max Pascal for 4 years, and he was 30 at the time.

Raps also couldn't take the risk of BI going into FA, and trying to negotiate harder, based on the experience with FVV. All it takes is one team to offer a deal, and who knows if the Nets decide to spend their cap space on BI.

Raps were using the advantage they had in not only having cap space, but the deeper pockets of a richer team to take advantage of the cap space. New Orleans was dumping BI because they could not afford him, along with their other contracts.

How is this a bonus for us? We paid him at the top of his market and he has a player option. If things go well for Ingram he opts out and we’re staring down Ingram as a possible expiring in a year. If they don’t go well (he’s injured) then he opts in and we’re stuck paying him $40m.

2+1 player option contracts are not team friendly.

Could have been a 4 year max like Pascal. With a 2+1 BI is heavily motivated to perform. If the Raps get one or two of his prime seasons, all it cost them was a late FRP.

[OAKLEY_2]

I definitely called the move to trade and then re-sign BI Masai's desperation / hail mary to stay relevant enough for him to get an extension at his expensive contract - despite being negligent for most parts of last 3-4 years

Read on Twitter

An expiring contract, Kelly Olynyk who's been traded 2x since + a pick that belongs to the team that went on to the NBA finals is not a desperation move

Trading for and THEN paying BI an amount few other teams would, despite unclear fit with rest of our roster (particularly with Scottie Barnes) IS a desperation move.

This summer has proven the mid tier player market has collapsed - so much so that now IQ contract is way overpaid, and BI contract is looking overpaid

Too soon to tell. Have some other ex GMs weighed in on IQ's deal in the context of a rebuild? Yes and unfavourably but as fans who would we rather have Schroeder or IQ? Ideally we want the next Kyle Lowry but... we might be waiting for that. I find it tiring to always have people dissing on Poetl, sometimes Scottie and now Ingram. Kind of like when we were all enduring the Fred haters.

[causal_fan]

An expiring contract, Kelly Olynyk who's been traded 2x since + a pick that belongs to the team that went on to the NBA finals is not a desperation move

Trading for and THEN paying BI an amount few other teams would, despite unclear fit with rest of our roster (particularly with Scottie Barnes) IS a desperation move.

This summer has proven the mid tier player market has collapsed - so much so that now IQ contract is way overpaid, and BI contract is looking overpaid

Too soon to tell. Have some other ex GMs weighed in on IQ's deal in the context of a rebuild? Yes and unfavourably but as fans who would we rather have Schroeder or IQ? Ideally we want the next Kyle Lowry but... we might be waiting for that. I find it tiring to always have people dissing on Poetl, sometimes Scottie and now Ingram. Kind of like when we were all enduring the Fred haters.

I am ok with IQ & BI as solid players but I have a problem with their contracts - IQ @ 25 and BI @ 32 seemed very fair IMO.

[ConSarnit]

I don't think this was a Rogers leak, unless you believe that one of the people who lambasted the trade was Bobby himself. If it wasn't Bobby and he doesn't feel that way about the trade then why would Rogers go on to extend/promote someone who feels positively about the Ingram trade, when they (Rogers) do not? It makes no sense for ownership to smear Masai for a trade that his GM was in accordance with and then go on to promote said GM.

When I saw the quote I immediately thought Casey, and maybe Eversley.

I don’t know. I’m not going to underestimate the stupidity or pettiness of a nepo baby like Rogers. The guy obviously had some type of vendetta against Masai so I wouldn’t put it past him to throw current members of the team under the bus to win the PR battle.

[ConSarnit]

An expiring contract, Kelly Olynyk who's been traded 2x since + a pick that belongs to the team that went on to the NBA finals is not a desperation move

Trading for and THEN paying BI an amount few other teams would, despite unclear fit with rest of our roster (particularly with Scottie Barnes) IS a desperation move.

This summer has proven the mid tier player market has collapsed - so much so that now IQ contract is way overpaid, and BI contract is looking overpaid

Too soon to tell. Have some other ex GMs weighed in on IQ's deal in the context of a rebuild? Yes and unfavourably but as fans who would we rather have Schroeder or IQ? Ideally we want the next Kyle Lowry but... we might be waiting for that. I find it tiring to always have people dissing on Poetl, sometimes Scottie and now Ingram. Kind of like when we were all enduring the Fred haters.

If we followed the “Schroder vs IQ” logic for every player we’d soon find ourselves overpaying our starting lineup by $30m+. Hell, we might already be close to that.

There are legit criticisms to be made for a lot of the starters on this team. The Poeltl flack is mostly trade related. Of all our starters he might be the most fairly paid.

[Reeko]

I don't think this was a Rogers leak, unless you believe that one of the people who lambasted the trade was Bobby himself. If it wasn't Bobby and he doesn't feel that way about the trade then why would Rogers go on to extend/promote someone who feels positively about the Ingram trade, when they (Rogers) do not? It makes no sense for ownership to smear Masai for a trade that his GM was in accordance with and then go on to promote said GM.

When I saw the quote I immediately thought Casey, and maybe Eversley.

I don’t know. I’m not going to underestimate the stupidity or pettiness of a nepo baby like Rogers. The guy obviously had some type of vendetta against Masai so I wouldn’t put it past him to throw current members of the team under the bus to win the PR battle.

Logically speaking it just doesn't make sense, unless it was Bobby who was one of the candidates lambasting the trade. Humans don't always operate logically so I'll give you that. What PR battle? In the minds of casuals? I guess. Assuming it is Rogers leaking this stuff, to what end? To my knowledge Masai isn't out here doing press tours bemoaning that he was let go. So Rogers is just lashing out at Masai because he reads RealGM and Reddit where the hardcore fans are upset at him for canning Masai for financial reasons?

So ultimately unless it was Bobby who hated on the trade during his interview, who cares about the opinion of a couple of candidates that didn't get hired? Especially when one of them is Dwane Casey who still harbors major resentment towards Masai and is definitely petty enough to leak this to Lewenberg.

[NinjaBro]

I don't think this was a Rogers leak, unless you believe that one of the people who lambasted the trade was Bobby himself. If it wasn't Bobby and he doesn't feel that way about the trade then why would Rogers go on to extend/promote someone who feels positively about the Ingram trade, when they (Rogers) do not? It makes no sense for ownership to smear Masai for a trade that his GM was in accordance with and then go on to promote said GM.

When I saw the quote I immediately thought Casey, and maybe Eversley.

It was 100% Casey. He's a spiteful petty petty man. It was a shot at masai.

[bluerap23]

I have very little faith in Rogers as a leader. Just seems like a real POS. But whatever, it's time to move on. At least they did the next best thing by handing the keys to Bobby. I expect they will leave him alone for the most part.

Typically the worst owners are the ones that want to make basketball decisions. Rogers does not seem to have any interest in meddling that way.

[Tacoma]

I'm no fan of MLSE but with the conspiracies being rambled upon here, it seems this board has turned into QAnon, Raptors Edition.

I have never interviewed or been interviewed where I've asked questions or been asked questions about what the predecessor did in the past. It's a sunk cost, it's a given. Any candidate critical of what the organization did in the past should be stricken off the candidate list. Interviews for President should be about the candidate's own past and his vision & strategy for future of the organization moving forward & implementation plan.

Even if we assume what Lewenberg told was the truth, it says nothing bad about MLSE. On the contrary, not selecting those candidates critical of the organization's past and eventually choosing a candidate (Bobby) from its past tells nothing bad about Rogers, Pelley or anyone else @MLSE/Rogers.

[Raps in 4]

I have very little faith in Rogers as a leader. Just seems like a real POS. But whatever, it's time to move on. At least they did the next best thing by handing the keys to Bobby. I expect they will leave him alone for the most part.

Typically the worst owners are the ones that want to make basketball decisions. Rogers does not seem to have any interest in meddling that way.

Ed's MO is hiring the least competent people for a job. He loves surrounding himself with bootlickers. I wonder if having Pelley diminishes the need to have a bootlicker running the team since Pelley will be the intermediary that kisses up to Ed while Bobby gets to do his job.

He's basically Trump. As long as his direct subordinates tell him how awesome he is, he's happy.

[ForeverTFC]

I don't think this was a Rogers leak, unless you believe that one of the people who lambasted the trade was Bobby himself. If it wasn't Bobby and he doesn't feel that way about the trade then why would Rogers go on to extend/promote someone who feels positively about the Ingram trade, when they (Rogers) do not? It makes no sense for ownership to smear Masai for a trade that his GM was in accordance with and then go on to promote said GM.

When I saw the quote I immediately thought Casey, and maybe Eversley.

Lewenberg said a number of candidates pushed back on Masai's moves. The only common denominator there is Rogers - other candidates wouldn't know what others had said. As you point out, it's weird to leak this while extending the right hand man, but Rogers is not a bright man and his ego comes above all else.

[CPT]

I'm no fan of MLSE but with the conspiracies being rambled upon here, it seems this board has turned into QAnon, Raptors Edition.

I have never interviewed or been interviewed where I've asked questions or been asked questions about what the predecessor did in the past. It's a sunk cost, it's a given. Any candidate critical of what the organization did in the past should be stricken off the candidate list. Interviews for President should be about the candidate's own past and his vision & strategy for future of the organization moving forward & implementation plan.

Even if we assume what Lewenberg told was the truth, it says nothing bad about MLSE. On the contrary, not selecting those candidates critical of the organization's past and eventually choosing a candidate (Bobby) from its past tells nothing bad about Rogers, Pelley or anyone else @MLSE/Rogers.

This is probably true of most industries, but I think pro sports might be a bit different. There’s enough public information that “what would you have done differently?” seems like a pretty reasonable question for an interview of this nature.

Who leaked it and why is a different discussion though.

[Tofubeque]

I don't think this was a Rogers leak, unless you believe that one of the people who lambasted the trade was Bobby himself. If it wasn't Bobby and he doesn't feel that way about the trade then why would Rogers go on to extend/promote someone who feels positively about the Ingram trade, when they (Rogers) do not? It makes no sense for ownership to smear Masai for a trade that his GM was in accordance with and then go on to promote said GM.

Rogers and Pelley have no opinion on the Ingram trade, they don’t know basketball and Masai was fired for non basketball reasons. It makes perfect sense to retain Bobby because he’s cheaper, he’s not some extension of Masai and he won’t ask for as much. And they’re not promoting him.

They’re taking plenty of heat from hardcore, casuals and the media for booting a widely liked figure for obviously cheap reasons and not seriously looking for a replacement. So, very easy to tell Lewenberg “well everyone we interviewed said Masai was dumb so we were right to do it, print it.” Whether or not any of the candidates even said that. And like ForeverTFC pointed out, Rogers/Pelley are pretty much the only ones who even CAN leak it, because maybe Casey would call up Lewenberg to throw dirt, but Kevin Pritchard too? Eversley? That starts to be doubtful.

[Reeko]

I don't think this was a Rogers leak, unless you believe that one of the people who lambasted the trade was Bobby himself. If it wasn't Bobby and he doesn't feel that way about the trade then why would Rogers go on to extend/promote someone who feels positively about the Ingram trade, when they (Rogers) do not? It makes no sense for ownership to smear Masai for a trade that his GM was in accordance with and then go on to promote said GM.

Rogers and Pelley have no opinion on the Ingram trade, they don’t know basketball and Masai was fired for non basketball reasons. It makes perfect sense to retain Bobby because he’s cheaper, he’s not some extension of Masai and he won’t ask for as much. And they’re not promoting him.

They’re taking plenty of heat from hardcore, casuals and the media for booting a widely liked figure for obviously cheap reasons and not seriously looking for a replacement. So, very easy to tell Lewenberg “well everyone we interviewed said Masai was dumb so we were right to do it, print it.” Whether or not any of the candidates even said that. And like ForeverTFC pointed out, Rogers/Pelley are pretty much the only ones who even CAN leak it, because maybe Casey would call up Lewenberg to throw dirt, but Kevin Pritchard too? Eversley? That starts to be doubtful.

Like I said, logically speaking it doesn't make sense unless Bobby was one of the ones not in accordance with the trade. For all intents and purposes they are throwing the guy they just extended and technically promoted, under the bus with Masai. Who cares about what people you didn't hire have to say about the previous guy running things, when the guy you ultimately did hire agreed with the trade in the first place?

Now they could just be stupid and do it despite the clear contradiction.

[Clay Davis]

I don't think this was a Rogers leak, unless you believe that one of the people who lambasted the trade was Bobby himself. If it wasn't Bobby and he doesn't feel that way about the trade then why would Rogers go on to extend/promote someone who feels positively about the Ingram trade, when they (Rogers) do not? It makes no sense for ownership to smear Masai for a trade that his GM was in accordance with and then go on to promote said GM.

Rogers and Pelley have no opinion on the Ingram trade, they don’t know basketball and Masai was fired for non basketball reasons. It makes perfect sense to retain Bobby because he’s cheaper, he’s not some extension of Masai and he won’t ask for as much. And they’re not promoting him.

They’re taking plenty of heat from hardcore, casuals and the media for booting a widely liked figure for obviously cheap reasons and not seriously looking for a replacement. So, very easy to tell Lewenberg “well everyone we interviewed said Masai was dumb so we were right to do it, print it.” Whether or not any of the candidates even said that. And like ForeverTFC pointed out, Rogers/Pelley are pretty much the only ones who even CAN leak it, because maybe Casey would call up Lewenberg to throw dirt, but Kevin Pritchard too? Eversley? That starts to be doubtful.

Like I said, logically speaking it doesn't make sense unless Bobby was one of the ones not in accordance with the trade. For all intents and purposes they are throwing the guy they just extended and technically promoted, under the bus with Masai. Who cares about what people you didn't hire have to say about the previous guy running things, when the guy you ultimately did hire agreed with the trade in the first place?

Now they could just be stupid and do it despite the clear contradiction.

One wonders if a candidate may have actually been seriously considered for the job if they were discerning enough to praise the moves Bobby actually made while elaborating upon mistakes of Masai. I believe that the answer is "no"... but it's interesting to think about.

I, like many, think that the job was Bobby's to begin with and they were maintaining appearances by doing their due diligence in fielding applicants; if Bobby didn't get the job we'd have to deal with a year of Lawrence Frankening of the Rizzmaster Webster by teams who'd be promising him the farm AND the cattle, so not promoting him would mean losing him and good luck replacing someone who is (probably) perceived as a pretty effective GM. It's already a tall order to replace Masai, and replacing Bobby too? That'd be crippling.

[Quattro]

I don't think this was a Rogers leak, unless you believe that one of the people who lambasted the trade was Bobby himself. If it wasn't Bobby and he doesn't feel that way about the trade then why would Rogers go on to extend/promote someone who feels positively about the Ingram trade, when they (Rogers) do not? It makes no sense for ownership to smear Masai for a trade that his GM was in accordance with and then go on to promote said GM.

Rogers and Pelley have no opinion on the Ingram trade, they don’t know basketball and Masai was fired for non basketball reasons. It makes perfect sense to retain Bobby because he’s cheaper, he’s not some extension of Masai and he won’t ask for as much. And they’re not promoting him.

They’re taking plenty of heat from hardcore, casuals and the media for booting a widely liked figure for obviously cheap reasons and not seriously looking for a replacement. So, very easy to tell Lewenberg “well everyone we interviewed said Masai was dumb so we were right to do it, print it.” Whether or not any of the candidates even said that. And like ForeverTFC pointed out, Rogers/Pelley are pretty much the only ones who even CAN leak it, because maybe Casey would call up Lewenberg to throw dirt, but Kevin Pritchard too? Eversley? That starts to be doubtful.

Like I said, logically speaking it doesn't make sense unless Bobby was one of the ones not in accordance with the trade. For all intents and purposes they are throwing the guy they just extended and technically promoted, under the bus with Masai. Who cares about what people you didn't hire have to say about the previous guy running things, when the guy you ultimately did hire agreed with the trade in the first place?

Now they could just be stupid and do it despite the clear contradiction.

Im voting for stupid.

[Badonkadonk]

I don't think this was a Rogers leak, unless you believe that one of the people who lambasted the trade was Bobby himself. If it wasn't Bobby and he doesn't feel that way about the trade then why would Rogers go on to extend/promote someone who feels positively about the Ingram trade, when they (Rogers) do not? It makes no sense for ownership to smear Masai for a trade that his GM was in accordance with and then go on to promote said GM.

Rogers and Pelley have no opinion on the Ingram trade, they don’t know basketball and Masai was fired for non basketball reasons. It makes perfect sense to retain Bobby because he’s cheaper, he’s not some extension of Masai and he won’t ask for as much. And they’re not promoting him.

They’re taking plenty of heat from hardcore, casuals and the media for booting a widely liked figure for obviously cheap reasons and not seriously looking for a replacement. So, very easy to tell Lewenberg “well everyone we interviewed said Masai was dumb so we were right to do it, print it.” Whether or not any of the candidates even said that. And like ForeverTFC pointed out, Rogers/Pelley are pretty much the only ones who even CAN leak it, because maybe Casey would call up Lewenberg to throw dirt, but Kevin Pritchard too? Eversley? That starts to be doubtful.

Agreed, the conspiracies on this one require some serious logic pretzels.

We know Lewenberg embellishes and leans into sensationalism more than the beat guys who actually know hoops. This is a complete non-story amongst other "insiders" (Grange, surprisingly Will Lou has amazing access these days) and the guys who keep it focused on the court most of the time (Folk, Murphy etc.).

Pretty certain this is just competitive candidates trying to differentiate themselves from the previous regime. I've seen it countless times, there's diplomatic ways to say "I'd have done this differently" to impress during an interview. My bet is that Josh and TSN took that basic reality and tried to make a story on it.

Based on the number of replies and clicks it generated, I guess they were successful, and will keep doing dumb stuff like this.