Somebody help me understand this?

[basketballwacko2]

2023 NBA Draft pick #47 the Indiana Pacers pick Mojave King.

At pick 53 Portland takes Toumani Camara
6-8, 220 Small Forward/Power Forward.

[Pacers Forever]

At pick #7 Jarace Walker still a ? if this was good

Pick #26 Ben Sheppard — stepped right into playing

Pick #47 Mojave King — injured then went overseas

Pick #52 Suns picked Toumani Camara traded to Blazers

Pick#55 Isiah Wong — didn’t develop quickly

Pick#57 TJ Davis (IU) traded to Warriors because Pacers had little if any roster space after drafting Walker and Sheppard

Looking at this draft in hindsight we know they needed a 4 position or it would have been a better pick at #8 to snag Cason Wallace or Derick Lively than a raw Jarace Walker. We’ll see this season if Jarace is still a future developmental player, if he finally shows out, or is shipped out. In his favor he’s still very young. The Pacers got their second pick right drafting Sheppard with defensive hustle exhibited in his first season. Hopefully his offense comes soon. The Pacers traded pick #29 from the first round to Denver. The roster was filling up and (again in hindsight) looking at the talent left

The second round they owned pick #32 and #55 and I wish they would have completely traded out of this round unless they could have seen and grabbed GG Jackson or Camara as G league developmental stashes. TJD was off the table as he wanted a roster spot the Pacers couldn’t guarantee. Hard to say if these 2 players were on the radar as future NBA talent. So yes I feel they mismanaged some of their draft capital and possibly player scouting unless they were just screwed by other teams not wanting to cooperate to help us get out.

Looking back at the 2022 and 2023 Pacers rosters this was the period where there was a lot of players being traded and we were busting with talent as they were building the deep roster we’re accustomed to now.

I can’t tell you what the Pacers saw in Mojave King or Isiah Wong other than G league developmental players because the Pacers were loaded with talent. Also looking at the second round there’s not a lot of talent left thus why they would’ve been good getting future draft picks or cash.

[basketballwacko2]

That doesn't help me understand drafting a guy that will never play in the NBA when they could have had Camara or TJD.

[JMaster5K]

That doesn't help me understand drafting a guy that will never play in the NBA when they could have had Camara or TJD.

If I take an educated guess,... at that time the Pacers were looking for another guard with the athleticism to be a good defender. Both King and Wong tested as extremely athletic, and their tape showed that athleticism actually working on the court. So, I think they took a flyer on them hoping that 1 of them would stick with the G league?

At this point, Q had not signed his first contract with the Pacers,... that doesn't happen until March 24. So again,... the Pacers are looking for Athletic guards that they hope can develop into defenders. Even with Tyrese, Drew, and Benn,... 2023 offseason, it still looked like our biggest problem was going to be bench depth at guard/wing.

In contrast, TJD had already said that he was only going to sign with a team that had a guaranteed spot on the 15 man roster. We didn't have that spot, and we already had Myles, Stix, I-Jax, & OB1 all on the roster & all having earned PT. We likely didn't have the 15-man spot, & we didn't look like we would have any PT for him anyway, particularly as a 2nd round pick.

Camara did not test well at the combine. He was a guy that played PF at Georgia and essentially lost his spot, then transferred to Dayton & played as a finesse PF. He didn't show out particularly well defensively. His tape showed someone that might be athletic enough to stick in the NBA, but that was far from certain. His 1 skill that should have translated was rebounding. (He did not shoot even average efficiency in college). In short, there were legitimate concerns with his translation to the NBA.

He is another case of what hard work & good coaching can do. He is a bit more athletic than he tested or played, but he needed to learn how to use that on the court. He also was taught to start playing tough. If he stays as the finesse player he was in college, he doesn't stick in the league. So, he learned to use his length & strength to legally body guys while defending them. He still isn't a 'power' player, but he is physical enough - in the right, within the rules ways - to keep people in front of him, and he has improved his short area, first step quickness,... again, through learning how to train for it & putting in the work. Understanding that defense had to be his calling card.

Hindsight is 20/20. At the time Camara didn't look like he was or could become anything close to what he is now? I didn't see many posters in any of the draft forums (on many different sites) that questioned the Pacers not looking at Camara? in fact,... there were a few Portland fans that were bemoaning the 'wasted pick',... deep in the second round,...

But having said that,... those last 10 picks in 2023 all turned out better than anyone probably thought was possible at the time? (Keyontae Johnson, Jalen Wilson, Camara, Jaylen Clark, Jalen Slawson, Wong, Berberovic, TJD, Chris Livingston)

[Scoot McGroot]

Chad Buchanan and Kevin Pritchard have always "preferred" to have most of the two way spots filled with guards. They tend to have a "guard pipeline" at any given time. Add in that Camara never took a two way, and Indy had drafted Walker earlier that night and were committed to trading for Obi Toppin (though it wouldn't be announced or finalized until later), and they apparently felt like they needed guards more than forwards like Camara? Maybe they weren't a believer his shot would ever develop?

Even worse is they worked him out 3 times that year.

[basketballwacko2]

That doesn't help me understand drafting a guy that will never play in the NBA when they could have had Camara or TJD.

If I take an educated guess,... at that time the Pacers were looking for another guard with the athleticism to be a good defender. Both King and Wong tested as extremely athletic, and their tape showed that athleticism actually working on the court. So, I think they took a flyer on them hoping that 1 of them would stick with the G league?

At this point, Q had not signed his first contract with the Pacers,... that doesn't happen until March 24. So again,... the Pacers are looking for Athletic guards that they hope can develop into defenders. Even with Tyrese, Drew, and Benn,... 2023 offseason, it still looked like our biggest problem was going to be bench depth at guard/wing.

In contrast, TJD had already said that he was only going to sign with a team that had a guaranteed spot on the 15 man roster. We didn't have that spot, and we already had Myles, Stix, I-Jax, & OB1 all on the roster & all having earned PT. We likely didn't have the 15-man spot, & we didn't look like we would have any PT for him anyway, particularly as a 2nd round pick.

Camara did not test well at the combine. He was a guy that played PF at Georgia and essentially lost his spot, then transferred to Dayton & played as a finesse PF. He didn't show out particularly well defensively. His tape showed someone that might be athletic enough to stick in the NBA, but that was far from certain. His 1 skill that should have translated was rebounding. (He did not shoot even average efficiency in college). In short, there were legitimate concerns with his translation to the NBA.

He is another case of what hard work & good coaching can do. He is a bit more athletic than he tested or played, but he needed to learn how to use that on the court. He also was taught to start playing tough. If he stays as the finesse player he was in college, he doesn't stick in the league. So, he learned to use his length & strength to legally body guys while defending them. He still isn't a 'power' player, but he is physical enough - in the right, within the rules ways - to keep people in front of him, and he has improved his short area, first step quickness,... again, through learning how to train for it & putting in the work. Understanding that defense had to be his calling card.

Hindsight is 20/20. At the time Camara didn't look like he was or could become anything close to what he is now? I didn't see many posters in any of the draft forums (on many different sites) that questioned the Pacers not looking at Camara? in fact,... there were a few Portland fans that were bemoaning the 'wasted pick',... deep in the second round,...

But having said that,... those last 10 picks in 2023 all turned out better than anyone probably thought was possible at the time? (Keyontae Johnson, Jalen Wilson, Camara, Jaylen Clark, Jalen Slawson, Wong, Berberovic, TJD, Chris Livingston)

There were several of us here talking about Camara before the draft, but no question the 47th pick and 55th pick were wasted.

[basketballwacko2]

That doesn't help me understand drafting a guy that will never play in the NBA when they could have had Camara or TJD.

In contrast, TJD had already said that he was only going to sign with a team that had a guaranteed spot on the 15 man roster. We didn't have that spot, and we already had Myles, Stix, I-Jax, & OB1 all on the roster & all having earned PT. We likely didn't have the 15-man spot, & we didn't look like we would have any PT for him anyway, particularly as a 2nd round pick.

Let me point out one thing here Obi Toppin was not acquired until July 7, 2023 and the 2023 draft was in June. Also IF all TJD wanted was a 4 year deal that could have been cheep enough to give him if drafted in the 2nd round look at his deal from the Warriors.

[basketballwacko2]

Of course I've asked this same question about why in the world the Pacers took TJ Leaf in 2017? And to a lesser extent Aaron Holiday in 2018.

Maybe this team is better off trading their #1's.

I guess the jury is out on Mathurin who I like a lot, this is his year. And still out on Walker who still has 2 years on his rookie deal.