Warriors exploring S&T for Kuminga

[whatisacenter]

I’m not sure why you’d shoehorn Draymond into this. His production for what he’s paid is excellent. Jimmy is a top 10 paid player in the league, over twice what Dray makes. He’s the one that came up short.

The funny thing is everyone BUT Kuminga came up short in the Wolves series, although Buddy shot well from outside (but 0-4 in the last game). I really think they had a chance to take that series, but no one could hit a damn shot from anywhere on the floor, and it's not because of ferocious defense, they were missing wide open shots. Jimmy has an asterisk because of the injury, it's hard to say what effect that had, but he was definitely less than 100% (later we learned Podz and Moses also had some injuries).


3P% in Wolves series:

Buddy 43%
Kuminga 42%
Post 33%
Podz 30%
Jimmy 30%
Moses 27%
Draymond 26%
Santos 25%


FG% in Wolves series:

Kuminga 54%
Santos 50%
Jimmy 43%
Draymond 39%
Post 38%
Buddy 36%
Podz 34%
Moses 22%

+/- in Wolves series:

Post +18
Steph + 10
GP2 -7
Moody/Podz -13
Buddy/Looney -16
Dray -24
Jimmy/Kuminga -37

lol Post

lol +\-

[Larry Ellison]

Right? I am probably one of JK's biggest fans on this board and I hope that he gets traded rather than stay for even another half a season.

People want kuminga to get big minutes.

He doesnt fit what they want to do. They've been trying for 4 years.

So everyone else needs to fit around him.

Jk has a 6th man and do what he wants off the bench? Great.

25M+ starter to call his own number while sharing the floor with steph and jimmy? No thanks.

Kuminga himself said on many occasions that he wants to be prioritized in the offense. How else is he going to get that if he won't fit? Team will need to build the offense around him. The guy carries an insane usg whenever he touches the floor.

Please stop moving the goalposts. Nobody wants the offense that you claimed. Nobody. The fact that you could write those words shows that you have no idea what you’re talking about. Lol. Yeah let’s make Steph JK’s wingman.
I swear some of you anti JK guys are the worst.

I am not anti-JK. When we drafted him, I was over the moon. I thought he had the body type to grow into a Kawhi Leonard type player. I was wrong, clearly. He is still a very athletic, young guy. But he hasn't yet earned the featured role and contract he wants. His defense and 3PT shooting are not good enough. I do understand why JK is frustrated with Kerr jerking him around. Kerr's rotations have been maddening at times. But Kerr is correct that JK needs to subordinate his individual goals to the team goal of winning. That means pass the damn ball to Steph. You don't see guys like Podz, Moody, GPII having any difficulty grasping this concept.

I am honestly wondering what the archetype is for JK now. Does anyone want to throw out a player comp based on the data we now have over the past 4 years. I mean, his athleticism and explosiveness remind me of Ja Morant or a young Westbrook. His limitations make me think he could thrive in a dunker role playing next to a passing big man. Like Aaron Gordon with Jokic. His usage and tunnel vision on offense remind a bit of Corey Maggette, but at least Corey could hit his free throws. Jaylen Brown is a decent comp, but JK is nowhere close to Jaylen's level yet. I think it is clear that JK wants to be an offensive hub but I am honestly not sure how to fit his skill set into a team concept. Maybe others have better insight.

[HiRez]

People want kuminga to get big minutes.

He doesnt fit what they want to do. They've been trying for 4 years.

So everyone else needs to fit around him.

Jk has a 6th man and do what he wants off the bench? Great.

25M+ starter to call his own number while sharing the floor with steph and jimmy? No thanks.

Kuminga himself said on many occasions that he wants to be prioritized in the offense. How else is he going to get that if he won't fit? Team will need to build the offense around him. The guy carries an insane usg whenever he touches the floor.

Please stop moving the goalposts. Nobody wants the offense that you claimed. Nobody. The fact that you could write those words shows that you have no idea what you’re talking about. Lol. Yeah let’s make Steph JK’s wingman.
I swear some of you anti JK guys are the worst.

I am not anti-JK. When we drafted him, I was over the moon. I thought he had the body type to grow into a Kawhi Leonard type player. I was wrong, clearly. He is still a very athletic, young guy. But he hasn't yet earned the featured role and contract he wants. His defense and 3PT shooting are not good enough. I do understand why JK is frustrated with Kerr jerking him around. Kerr's rotations have been maddening at times. But Kerr is correct that JK needs to subordinate his individual goals to the team goal of winning. That means pass the damn ball to Steph. You don't see guys like Podz, Moody, GPII having any difficulty grasping this concept.

I am honestly wondering what the archetype is for JK now. Does anyone want to throw out a player comp based on the data we now have over the past 4 years. I mean, his athleticism and explosiveness remind me of Ja Morant or a young Westbrook. His limitations make me think he could thrive in a dunker role playing next to a passing big man. Like Aaron Gordon with Jokic. His usage and tunnel vision on offense remind a bit of Corey Maggette, but at least Corey could hit his free throws. Jaylen Brown is a decent comp, but JK is nowhere close to Jaylen's level yet. I think it is clear that JK wants to be an offensive hub but I am honestly not sure how to fit his skill set into a team concept. Maybe others have better insight.

To me, Kuminga is at his best when he's going downhill towards the rim and gets the ball delivered in stride, something I was hoping we'd get to see develop with Jimmy playing with him but the injuries derailed. But NOT when he's initiating the drive from the perimeter (which he usually does after telegraphing his drive with some dribbles, allowing the defense to get set to close it off). I don't love Kuminga hanging out under the rim because he's clogging things up and isn't getting the benefit of momentum, but I don't like him just hanging out on the perimeter either, where he will also get tempted to take some ill-advised 3s. Pick and rolls might help him but he needs to be a lot more proactive looking for cutting/passing lanes, probing and attacking them relentlessly like GP2 does. He's also really good in transition but creating those opportunities is more of a team thing (other than being more active on the boards, which he could certainly be better at).

[bay2hk]

People want kuminga to get big minutes.

He doesnt fit what they want to do. They've been trying for 4 years.

So everyone else needs to fit around him.

Jk has a 6th man and do what he wants off the bench? Great.

25M+ starter to call his own number while sharing the floor with steph and jimmy? No thanks.

Kuminga himself said on many occasions that he wants to be prioritized in the offense. How else is he going to get that if he won't fit? Team will need to build the offense around him. The guy carries an insane usg whenever he touches the floor.

Please stop moving the goalposts. Nobody wants the offense that you claimed. Nobody. The fact that you could write those words shows that you have no idea what you’re talking about. Lol. Yeah let’s make Steph JK’s wingman.
I swear some of you anti JK guys are the worst.

I am not anti-JK. When we drafted him, I was over the moon. I thought he had the body type to grow into a Kawhi Leonard type player. I was wrong, clearly. He is still a very athletic, young guy. But he hasn't yet earned the featured role and contract he wants. His defense and 3PT shooting are not good enough. I do understand why JK is frustrated with Kerr jerking him around. Kerr's rotations have been maddening at times. But Kerr is correct that JK needs to subordinate his individual goals to the team goal of winning. That means pass the damn ball to Steph. You don't see guys like Podz, Moody, GPII having any difficulty grasping this concept.

I am honestly wondering what the archetype is for JK now. Does anyone want to throw out a player comp based on the data we now have over the past 4 years. I mean, his athleticism and explosiveness remind me of Ja Morant or a young Westbrook. His limitations make me think he could thrive in a dunker role playing next to a passing big man. Like Aaron Gordon with Jokic. His usage and tunnel vision on offense remind a bit of Corey Maggette, but at least Corey could hit his free throws. Jaylen Brown is a decent comp, but JK is nowhere close to Jaylen's level yet. I think it is clear that JK wants to be an offensive hub but I am honestly not sure how to fit his skill set into a team concept. Maybe others have better insight.

His comp is Anthony Randolph with career guidance from Patrick McCaw’s dad.

[Nvnervous45]

The problem with jk is his floor vision or lack thereof. Explosive scorers who had success in this league knew how to be good passers. Jordan, Durant, kobe, Lebron , the truly great high usage scorers had a way better assist ratio than kuminga's 2.2 assists per game.. until he can improve his court vision and get high efficiency opportunities for guys like butler,, podz, and curry he will continue to be a detriment to the team concept.

[EvanZ]

JK is basically like Jonathan Simmons.

[EvanZ]

Another one that comes to mind and it's ironic because he played for the Kings is Tyreke Evans. I mean Evans was much more talented and smaller but similar mindset tbh.

[Twinkie defense]

I wasn't a fan of trading for Jimmy Butler... I am still not that impressed with the addition.

[whatisacenter]

I wasn't a fan of trading for Jimmy Butler... I am still not that impressed with the addition.

Wait until next season and then we’ll see.

[Nvnervous45]

I wasn't a fan of trading for Jimmy Butler... I am still not that impressed with the addition.

Wait until next season and then we’ll see.

I don't think a future hall of famer cares if you're that impressed with his game.

[Old_Blue]

Wait until next season and then we’ll see.

I don't think a future hall of famer cares if you're that impressed with his game.

Not to play gate keeper here, but are we sure that Jimmy's a "future hall of famer?" Sure, the guy's a six time All Star. But, he's also got 0 rings and has never finished higher than 10th in MVP voting. That said, I'm sure there are more than a few shlimazels who somehow still found their way into the Hall.

[whatisacenter]

Wait until next season and then we’ll see.

I don't think a future hall of famer cares if you're that impressed with his game.

Duh!

And I don’t care if he does or not.

Let’s revisit Jimmy after he plays a full season with the warriors.

[CS707]

Wait until next season and then we’ll see.

I don't think a future hall of famer cares if you're that impressed with his game.

Not to play gate keeper here, but are we sure that Jimmy's a "future hall of famer?" Sure, the guy's a six time All Star. But, he's also got 0 rings and has never finished higher than 10th in MVP voting. That said, I'm sure there are more than a few shlimazels who somehow still found their way into the Hall.

I think you can go ahead and write next year's ring in permanent ink.

[Old_Blue]

I don't think a future hall of famer cares if you're that impressed with his game.

Not to play gate keeper here, but are we sure that Jimmy's a "future hall of famer?" Sure, the guy's a six time All Star. But, he's also got 0 rings and has never finished higher than 10th in MVP voting. That said, I'm sure there are more than a few shlimazels who somehow still found their way into the Hall.

I think you can go ahead and write next year's ring in permanent ink.

My friend, your words are almost as bold as your Magic Marker. I like it!

[Chris Porter's Hair]

I am honestly wondering what the archetype is for JK now. Does anyone want to throw out a player comp based on the data we now have over the past 4 years. I mean, his athleticism and explosiveness remind me of Ja Morant or a young Westbrook. His limitations make me think he could thrive in a dunker role playing next to a passing big man. Like Aaron Gordon with Jokic. His usage and tunnel vision on offense remind a bit of Corey Maggette, but at least Corey could hit his free throws. Jaylen Brown is a decent comp, but JK is nowhere close to Jaylen's level yet. I think it is clear that JK wants to be an offensive hub but I am honestly not sure how to fit his skill set into a team concept. Maybe others have better insight.

It honestly pains me to say this, but Maggette is not bad right now. When Maggette was hitting shots, he was a problem on offense. But when his shot wasn't falling, defenders would just sag off, dare him to shoot, and he'd either miss, or he'd barrel predictably into the defense and lose the ball as often as not.

If Kuminga's shot was more reliable, there would definitely still be room for criticism, but he'd immediately have a more clear role as a microwave scorer.

[Larry Ellison]

I am honestly wondering what the archetype is for JK now. Does anyone want to throw out a player comp based on the data we now have over the past 4 years. I mean, his athleticism and explosiveness remind me of Ja Morant or a young Westbrook. His limitations make me think he could thrive in a dunker role playing next to a passing big man. Like Aaron Gordon with Jokic. His usage and tunnel vision on offense remind a bit of Corey Maggette, but at least Corey could hit his free throws. Jaylen Brown is a decent comp, but JK is nowhere close to Jaylen's level yet. I think it is clear that JK wants to be an offensive hub but I am honestly not sure how to fit his skill set into a team concept. Maybe others have better insight.

It honestly pains me to say this, but Maggette is not bad right now. When Maggette was hitting shots, he was a problem on offense. But when his shot wasn't falling, defenders would just sag off, dare him to shoot, and he'd either miss, or he'd barrel predictably into the defense and lose the ball as often as not.

If Kuminga's shot was more reliable, there would definitely still be room for criticism, but he'd immediately have a more clear role as a microwave scorer.

I agree. If JK were better off ball and a willing passer, he could perhaps get more opportunities as a cutter in our motion offense with others delivering the ball to him in stride as HiRez suggested above. Maggette did not play the "beautiful" basketball of the Kerr era. He would put his head down and try to bully his way to the rim. The guy shot more than 8FT per game and at 82%. It was ugly but effective. JK evokes the "black hole" qualities of Maggette but he is not delivering high volume efficient scoring from the FT line.

If JK were a good 3PT shooter, he could use the shot to open up his dribble penetration, as you suggest. And hit open catch and shoot 3PT when opportunities are created by others. Steph, Jimmy, and Dray are all willing passers. Part of the problem with JK has been how he views himself. He does not want to be a 3 and D player and it shows. I think the Warriors would have extended JK already if he simply played his game at the level of, say, Jaden McDaniels. What JK wants to do, always ISO and create for himself while moving towards the basket, that is not an easy thing to build around for team offense. I mean, our current MVP plays like that. But SGA is such a special player with his handle, footwork, change of speed, shooting touch, and ability to finish with both hands. This is a league that has moved towards 3PT shooting. If JK is not drawing fouls and converting high volume FT like Maggette, and he insists on being an ISO midrange guy, what team would give him this role? Where is the efficiency? In my dream world, JK would model his offensive game after Jimmy. That would require better situational awareness, footwork, and passing. JK has the perfect role model right here on our team but he does not want to play like Jimmy. He wants to play like Kobe.

JK's athleticism will fade. If he doesn't improve or change his game, I think he could be out of the league by age 30.

[floppymoose]

JK is already a willing passer. Its not his will that limits him there, its his court vision.

[Larry Ellison]

JK is already a willing passer. Its not that his will that limits him there, its his court vision.

Fair enough. I will accept that clarification.

[AirP.]

JK is already a willing passer. Its not his will that limits him there, its his court vision.

Is he a willing passer? I know I only watched him in the 2nd half of this season and I saw a lot of possessions where he just decided he was taking the shot but on set plays, like where he would come across the lane to get a pass and then zip it over to the corner without really looking, he was able to do that fine. He has the ability to pass and decent enough vision; he just doesn't want to; he gets wrapped up in trying to create his own offense which he can do although he's not consistent in finishing. His per36 FGA this year was 17.9 to 3.3 assists per36 (looking at his rate of stats), looking at the entire NBA for qualified players in per36 Kuminga would have tied KD for 25th most FGA in the NBA and out of those who shot more than him per36, only Jaren Jackson Jr had less assists per36 with 2.4, the next lowest was Jalen Green who had 3.8 assists per36.

The most frustrating thing for me watching Kuminga is that there's a damn good player in him, he just needs to quit looking for his shot so much, especially when you're on the floor with an all-time great like Curry. All he has to do is just move the ball and then take his shot when he sees an opening vs trying to create an opening (especially early in the shot clock). Playing the role Kerr wants him to play could really help the Warriors greatly and he'd have a lot of opportunities to score still. I have no doubts that Butler, Green and Kuminga could play together with 2 other shooters on the court with them, I watched it work in Miami with Butler and Bam shooting little to no 3s combined.

[DonaldSanders]

Is he a willing passer? I know I only watched him in the 2nd half of this season and I saw a lot of possessions where he just decided he was taking the shot but on set plays, like where he would come across the lane to get a pass and then zip it over to the corner without really looking, he was able to do that fine. He has the ability to pass and decent enough vision; he just doesn't want to; he gets wrapped up in trying to create his own offense which he can do although he's not consistent in finishing. His per36 FGA this year was 17.9 to 3.3 assists per36 (looking at his rate of stats), looking at the entire NBA for qualified players in per36 Kuminga would have tied KD for 25th most FGA in the NBA and out of those who shot more than him per36, only Jaren Jackson Jr had less assists per36 with 2.4, the next lowest was Jalen Green who had 3.8 assists per36.

The most frustrating thing for me watching Kuminga is that there's a damn good player in him, he just needs to quit looking for his shot so much, especially when you're on the floor with an all-time great like Curry. All he has to do is just move the ball and then take his shot when he sees an opening vs trying to create an opening (especially early in the shot clock). Playing the role Kerr wants him to play could really help the Warriors greatly and he'd have a lot of opportunities to score still. I have no doubts that Butler, Green and Kuminga could play together with 2 other shooters on the court with them, I watched it work in Miami with Butler and Bam shooting little to no 3s combined.

I think he is a willing passer, but it's part of the same issue we see in other areas of his game -- he's either slow in processing or does not act decisively/quickly. Whether it's off-ball defense or his drives, opponents appear to react/read the next move before he does.

You'll see him go for his offensive move but he doesn't act quickly enough, so he realizes he is in trouble and wants to pass, but by then the defense knows he needs to pass and JK is stuck taking a low % shot. If he can read the game faster/act more decisively, suddenly his ceiling raises much much higher. But reading/reacting to the game quickly isn't really something that can be taught, you can give people more playing time but there is never any guarantee of that speeding up. Generally the best players you see their high IQ at young ages, but it's possible Kuminga can still do better.

So to me his lack of assists is more about just general IQ/speed of reading the game. I think he would be willing to pass and rack up assists, it's just unclear if he will read the game much more quickly at some point in his career.