Official 2025 Offseason Thread 2.0

[AdamTheGreek]

Georgia again lost to Czechia in Prague. Goga did not play in this one.
Georgia finishes friendly prep winless (0-6) and will next head to EuroBasket group play in Limassol, Cyprus.
I expect them to finish fourth in group play and make it to the Round of 16 knockout round in Riga, Latvia.

[KillMonger]

Franz is playing well enough he's just not hitting the 3, the good part is no hitch but he still got to rep that thing out.....in his defense though he's taking quite a bit of these 3's off the dribble and end of clock 3's......

[thelead]

Instead of spending his summer working on nothing but his shot, he's preparing for games. If that shot is still broken, we may have to have Franz play more point-forward and hope that Paolo becomes a knock-down 3-point shooter. Paolo passing it out to an open Franz scares the hell out of me. Franz passing it out to an open Paolo does not.

[pepe1991]

ehh, to me its talent, not just being a Euro and starting your playing career early.

some recent picks

Tidjane Salaun - #6 pick assigned to Charlotte G-league team in January. why? they werent battling for a playoff spot.
Matas Buzelis - didnt look like a #11 pick.
Bilal Coulibaly - still mostly potential and shot 28% from 3 last year.
Olivier Prosper - 1st round pick by Dallas, couldnt get on the court
Usman Guraba - horrible 1st round pick by Houston

Matas is American and had a season shooting 45/36/81 as a rookie.

Also:
Salaun sucked in French A division league and shot 37% FG for 9 ppg as pro. He was definition of "blind potential" pick.
Coulibaly spent 2 years on historically bad team in nba. Wizards bet for future is that him and countryman Sarr can overcome all odds and develop in impossible situation to stay afloat for young player ( developing losing mentality, mistakes don't cost them, teammates like Poole, Kuzma who made money playing basketball in wrong way, defense is afterthought etc ).
Prosper went through college NCAA.

Me and Xat had huge fight about Garuba when i called him Euro Biyombo. Silly me, he wasn't even that. Typical physical freak who starts shaving at like 11 years old, hits puberty early, has huge body that way overdeveloped for player of his age, dominates his age groups based on it, but has no basketball skills. At the end of a day, Garuba was just 6'8 stiff wood center with muscles. Difference between him and some Kenneth Faried was only that Garuba had muscles at age of 16. He signed for Real Madrid, still makes good living, but he isn't even good in Europe against grown ups.

[pepe1991]

Love part about Franz when he said he plays basketball since he is 7. That's why he had no "rookie wall" nor had to "learn " basketball at age of 19.
By the time he jumped into nba he was already playing basketball 2/3 of his life.

Great example of overvaluing "potential" often leads you nowhere. Players at age of 20 should be players, not "Potential players".

There’s a reason it takes most players half a decade to reach true contending status, and that’s because they aren’t finished products at age 20. Giannis and Jokic didn’t look like their current selves at age 20. How long has Wemby been playing for - and he still needs years to get in to NBA dominating form.

You are missing my point.

Player at age of 19 should have fundamental skills. Ball handling, passing, not double dribbling, shooting FTs at at least respectful rate, having some sort of reliable or semi reliable jumpshot, guards should have floaters and know how to finish layups with both hands, usage of off ball hand, understand how to use or set screens, read game on both ends. Those are fundamentals.
Trying to reprogram 20 years old how to protect ball, after he spent 10 years as lead guard is silly and waste of time. It's like wasting year in F1 teaching driver how to shift gears or pro swimmer how jump. We had this problem with Bamba where you bring guy with 8 feet arms, standing at 7'0, and you have to "teach" him how to set screen. It's crazy to me. it's not like nobody saw issue before, issue isn't that player has weaknesses, issue is when they aren't worked to fix it for years, to a point where grown a** man still has no clue what he supposed to do, let alone do it at nba level.


Most players/teams need half of decade to reach contending status because they are mostly lottery picks drafted by terrible teams and because 20 years old aren't mentally nor physically mature and because experience is very valuable thing in sports.

But all 3 of your examples don't really make case for you.
Giannis didn't play basketball until he was 13. Nine years from first training he was MIP, all star, top 10 MVP candidate, all nba second team and all nba defense member. Matter of fact, only 4-ish years into training basketball he was called to all star game in A division Greece league, league that is top 5 in the world.

Jokić rookie year: 10 points, 7 rebounds, 58% TS, 3,9 BPM. Most players never reach that in their prime. Jokić, impact vise, at age of 21,in second season, was top 20 player. By age of 23, he was top 8 player, you can make case for top 5.

Victor had one of best rookie seasons of all time. Aside from Jordan /Bird / Magic / Duncan and few others, who were all several years older than he was, world has never seen guy who averages +20 ppg, +10 rpg and smacks +3,5 blocks a game on 5,2 BPM.

[GelbeWand09]

Love part about Franz when he said he plays basketball since he is 7. That's why he had no "rookie wall" nor had to "learn " basketball at age of 19.
By the time he jumped into nba he was already playing basketball 2/3 of his life.

Great example of overvaluing "potential" often leads you nowhere. Players at age of 20 should be players, not "Potential players".

And-1

There is a reason European players are most of the dominant A-list stars. Add to them all the A-lister Canadians: there is clearly a problem with the AAU approach to youth developmental of elite athletes. Fundamentals matter. And they are learned at a child's age. You do not teach a 22-year old how to shoot 40% from three. You just don't.

On this thought line, I do think this is why Richardson will be a good player in the NBA (and why Howard never will be).

ehh, to me its talent, not just being a Euro and starting your playing career early.

some recent picks

Tidjane Salaun - #6 pick assigned to Charlotte G-league team in January. why? they werent battling for a playoff spot.
Matas Buzelis - didnt look like a #11 pick.
Bilal Coulibaly - still mostly potential and shot 28% from 3 last year.
Olivier Prosper - 1st round pick by Dallas, couldnt get on the court
Usman Guraba - horrible 1st round pick by Houston

Buzelis was pretty good if you watched him play. Super skilled, mobile and athletic for his size. He showed at least fringe all star potential.

[ORLMagicGirl15]

Love part about Franz when he said he plays basketball since he is 7. That's why he had no "rookie wall" nor had to "learn " basketball at age of 19.
By the time he jumped into nba he was already playing basketball 2/3 of his life.

Great example of overvaluing "potential" often leads you nowhere. Players at age of 20 should be players, not "Potential players".

And-1

There is a reason European players are most of the dominant A-list stars. Add to them all the A-lister Canadians: there is clearly a problem with the AAU approach to youth developmental of elite athletes. Fundamentals matter. And they are learned at a child's age. You do not teach a 22-year old how to shoot 40% from three. You just don't.

On this thought line, I do think this is why Richardson will be a good player in the NBA (and why Howard never will be).

We better hope that we can teach Franz how to become at least a 30% shooter again.

[cedric76]

Another great video by Josh Cohen for those who dont get how valuable WCJ is

Read on Twitter

[eyriq]

It's very interesting that WCJ, JI, Franz, Suggs, Bane, and Paolo are all long-term contracts. Why? That's a lot of stability for an unproven team. AB's contract negotiations are going to be something

[jezzerinho]

Another great video by Josh Cohen for those who dont get how valuable WCJ is

Read on Twitter

The many on here who trash Wendell would do well to watch and absorb.

How Wendell defends isn't conventional, which many mistake for him being poor. The "poor attitude" tag also mystifies me.

[drsd]

Another great video by Josh Cohen for those who dont get how valuable WCJ is

Read on Twitter

The many on here who trash Wendell would do well to watch and absorb.

How Wendell defends isn't conventional, which many mistake for him being poor. The "poor attitude" tag also mystifies me.

If Carter can keep his health and fitness all season, the Magic has an outstanding Center core for the seasonal campaign!

[thelead]

If WCJ shoots 23% from deep again, we're a second round team AT BEST. Dude got PAID after shooting 37% from deep the year prior and then forgot how to shoot. The defense is nice but he's got to be better offensively. He went from 62% TS% to 54%....

[RookieStar]

Isn't WCJ going out with that delusional WNBA player? The one who always bricks her own shots? He must be getting tips on how to play..

[RookieStar]

Isn't WCJ going out with that delusional WNBA player? The one who always bricks her own shots? He must be getting tips on how to play..

[Bensational]

You are missing my point.

Player at age of 19 should have fundamental skills. Ball handling, passing, not double dribbling, shooting FTs at at least respectful rate, having some sort of reliable or semi reliable jumpshot, guards should have floaters and know how to finish layups with both hands, usage of off ball hand, understand how to use or set screens, read game on both ends. Those are fundamentals.
Trying to reprogram 20 years old how to protect ball, after he spent 10 years as lead guard is silly and waste of time. It's like wasting year in F1 teaching driver how to shift gears or pro swimmer how jump. We had this problem with Bamba where you bring guy with 8 feet arms, standing at 7'0, and you have to "teach" him how to set screen. It's crazy to me. it's not like nobody saw issue before, issue isn't that player has weaknesses, issue is when they aren't worked to fix it for years, to a point where grown a** man still has no clue what he supposed to do, let alone do it at nba level.

I don’t know what your point is here. We both accept that players have to continue learning and developing even after they’ve joined the league, because it’s going to be played differently and with a different standard of competition. So we don’t expect guys to come in as finished products.

And we both accept that players enter the league at different experience levels; some training since 7 like Franz and some since 13 like Giannis, or 15 like Embiid, or 16 like Siakam. In each case the starting age had little impact on their final/current level of professional play.

So what’s the disagreement, or point you’re making? If you had to choose between the next Giannis and next Franz you’d pick Franz because he started playing younger in organised leagues?

It all depends on what you project him to do, what he’s capable of doing, and how hard he’s prepared to work to improve. Those are harder to gauge without firsthand experience. It’s clear there’s no exact science on how to pick the best basketball players or even their archetypes because the results are so consistently mixed.

I like the European development model though, fwiw. I think they develop the mindset of “be great for the team and that will be great for you”, as opposed to the reverse of “be great for yourself and that will be great for the team”.

[RookieStar]

Ummm we signed Castleton AGAIN?

Did we just get the Raptors trash Centers last season? Orlandi Robinson and Castleton???

[J-Mezzy]

Any interest in Malik Beasley? He should be cheap and we could use a scoring punch off the bench

[ORLMagicGirl15]

Any interest in Malik Beasley? He should be cheap and we could use a scoring punch off the bench

We cannot afford anyone.

[drsd]

Any interest in Malik Beasley? He should be cheap and we could use a scoring punch off the bench

We cannot afford anyone.

I'd be shocked if management makes an another move before the trade deadline. I think the roster and the two-way players are set for opening night.
These E10 guys are future Osceola Magic signings.

[thelead]

Any interest in Malik Beasley? He should be cheap and we could use a scoring punch off the bench

Interest? Absolutely. Getting him would be a challenge though. I’d make some moves to get him if we could. The FO should absolutely be looking into it. He alone could fix our bench offense issues while we wait for Mo to get healthy. A Tyus/Malik bench backcourt would be insanely good. We could bump AB to play SF with them. Honestly, it would vault us right up there with the Cavs IMO. That’s how good of a pickup he would be. The offense version of OKC’s Caruso pickup.