Political Roundtable Part XXXIV

[AFM]

Your president has never done an honest day of work in his life. You're aware of that right? Elon Musk is the number one recipient of welfare in this country. You're aware of that too, right?

[Wizardspride]

Of course.....

Read on Twitter

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[dobrojim]

https://www.thenation.com/article/society/john-wall-washington-dc-trump-protests/

Dave Zirin writes about John Wall

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

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[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

daoneandonly:

1. The words of Deuteronomy 30:19 were written by my great great great great etc grandfather. They were addressed to my family & my people. They have nothing to do with you. If you wish to learn from them, you will have to join the conversation that descends from them. You can start, if you like, with the volume of Midrash Rabbah devoted to Deuteronomy

2. Above all, the words of Deuteronomy were not written to be, are not, will never be a tool for you or anyone to pass judgment on others, for judgment is not yours. Not in any way.

3. As to the fluidity of sexual appetite, sexual choices, sexual lifestyles, & sexual activities, again, yours is not to judge. We have thousands of years of widely varying human history to present that range to us, & it seems to involve much more than the xx / xy chromosome differential.

No one is asking you to behave one way or another. On the other hand, no one has given unto you the right (let alone the responsibility) to judge others different from you. If you continue to do so then you are a long way from being the person you imagine you are.

For -- since we are on Deuteronomy -- "this mitzva that I command you today, it is not hidden from you, and it is not distant."

Deuteronomy 28 describes what leads to blessings and curses.

The Ten Commandments are presented in Exodus 20:1-17 and Deuteronomy 5:6-21

Outside of all the political rhetoric, a new party should focus on core values.

Honor
Mother and father, two-parent households.
Ideal behavior - reduced theft, adultery, murder

How can we improve society?

Family accountability time. Parenting. Community. Face time fathers.

Outsiders form a community village

Politicians lead the way with MPD assistance.

There needs to be a lot of volunteer grandparents supervised by CFS

Sorry for these scattered thoughts. The basics are to teach what we were taught growing up in the 60s and 70s. We ate at the table as a family. There was no social media. Gay wasn't the family. Love was. Not lifestyle.

Values. Not bling.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

daoneandonly:

1. The words of Deuteronomy 30:19 were written by my great great great great etc grandfather. They were addressed to my family & my people. They have nothing to do with you. If you wish to learn from them, you will have to join the conversation that descends from them. You can start, if you like, with the volume of Midrash Rabbah devoted to Deuteronomy

2. Above all, the words of Deuteronomy were not written to be, are not, will never be a tool for you or anyone to pass judgment on others, for judgment is not yours. Not in any way.

3. As to the fluidity of sexual appetite, sexual choices, sexual lifestyles, & sexual activities, again, yours is not to judge. We have thousands of years of widely varying human history to present that range to us, & it seems to involve much more than the xx / xy chromosome differential.

No one is asking you to behave one way or another. On the other hand, no one has given unto you the right (let alone the responsibility) to judge others different from you. If you continue to do so then you are a long way from being the person you imagine you are.

For -- since we are on Deuteronomy -- "this mitzva that I command you today, it is not hidden from you, and it is not distant."

There's a difference between judging and saying just because you believe something about yourself that isnt true, it does not give you special rights. The entitlement factor is what I'm calling out, not a judgment of their lifestyle.

There is neither a question nor a judgment of "truth" in this arena. & "entitlement" is a code word (as is "lifestyle" for that matter).

People simply are who they are -- unless they are doing someone harm. Beyond that, judgment simply does not come into question.

OTOH, Donald Trump is obviously a low-life. & he's obviously a crook as well. Are you really prepared to deny either of those statements, you who quotes Torah to characterize yourself?

I don't know you, but I read what you write here. You need to change your life, son, if you will forgive my presumption. If you are a Jew, well... there were Jews who supported Hitler too, believe it or not. If you're a Christian you might want to re-read the Beatitudes.

Jews who supported Hitler are like Blacks who like MAGA and Trump.

Tim Scott and Clarence Thomas are [please find a less provocative term].

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Your president has never done an honest day of work in his life. You're aware of that right? Elon Musk is the number one recipient of welfare in this country. You're aware of that too, right?

He orders the military around like they're his puppet. He is un-American and has no idea the sweat and literal blood many shed for the freedoms he is taking alackeys. Pete Hegseth is firing all the competent senior military officers and replacing them with Trump laxkeys.

Musk is already number one, but Peter Theil, David Sacks, Mark Zuckerberg, and others are lined up to receive Trump gratuities.

The Heritege Foundation agenda, as proposed in Project 2025, is coming to fruition.

[payitforward]

...pretty safe to assume you are pro-choice? So that harm to baby, the ultimate harm since its death, is okay in your eyes? ...

This is a sufficiently complex issue that it warrants a thoughtful comment.

For something like 12-15,000 years the cycle of pregnancy & birth was almost entirely in the control of women. It existed entirely outside the intellectual sphere of "law" or even "custom." To the degree that they had the tools to do so, women decided when they would become pregnant & whether they would give birth. Obviously, limits to technology translated into limits of that control. But, in any case, men had little or nothing to do with the entire of life -- aside from their obvious function in being needed to impregnate a woman (but they could be counted on to be available to fulfill that function! ).

For these 1000s of years, men had no role in the birth cycle beyond that of impregnating the female. I.e. no "social role" whatever.

It was only relatively recently (i.e some hundreds of years ago), when the rule of statutory law was universalized (by men in a male-run social order), that this began to change. & only more recently than that that birth began to be subsumed under the social concepts of "medicine" or "health care." For most of human history, men had nothing to do with the birth process itself -- indeed, they were usually banished. Not allowed to be present for birth at all.

Women also had many ways to prevent pregnancy & ways to end pregnancy early in the cycle. As to the relation of this to life & death... traditionally life is thought to begin at birth. That is, obviously, the meaning of the word.

There's no reason a person should be expected to know these things. Perhaps you didn't. Now you do.

Nor is anyone, at least not anyone I know, "pro-abortion." There's a reason for the phrase "women's right to choose."

...But expecting someone to use the public restroom for their scientifically born gender is wrong?...

Who gives a sh$t what restroom anybody uses? This issue was created as a way to exert control over people you don't like. Bogus.

...Okay, the verse you mock, saying your ancestors wrote, shows where morality stands on choosing life....

I didn't -- & wouldn't -- "mock" a verse of Torah, dude. & you show no understanding of what is at stake in that passage. Instead you simply want to use it for your purposes. The righteous do not behave in that manner.

...the freebies all the left expect....

Look... figure it out. If you use an insulting word to describe what someone "wants" all you do is display your prejudices in crystal clarity. In the end, all human beings want pretty much the same thing.

...I could def use refreshers on the beatitudes, I own that....

Yeah, but you didn't do the refresher did you....? Too busy raining hell on your so-called "enemy."

A non-Jew once asked Hillel, "teach me the Torah while I stand on one foot." To which the sage replied, "Do nothing to another that you would not want done to you. That is Torah; the rest is commentary. Now, go & study."

...But are you familiar with 2 Thessalonians 3? Here's a little tidbit via the MSG translation : "Don’t you remember the rule we had when we lived with you? “If you don’t work, you don’t eat.” And now we’re getting reports that a bunch of lazy good-for-nothings are taking advantage of you. This must not be tolerated. We command them to get to work immediately—no excuses, no arguments—and earn their own keep. Friends, don’t slack off in doing your duty."...

Talk is cheap. Christians & Christianity have started more wars, invaded more countries, killed more people, caused more misery, & in general done more harm than any other group in human history.

Nor does that fact have anything whatever to do with Jesus. Who was a Jew.

[payitforward]

daoneandonly -- here's another, very different piece of perspective:

Most demographers estimate the global human population at @300 million at the beginning of the common era. In the 19 centuries that followed, the number of humans went from 300m to @ 1 billion. I.e. in just under 2000 years, the number of living humans tripled & a bit more.

In the 100 years from 1900 to 2000, the global human population went from 1 billion to 8 billion.

[payitforward]

Here's another tidbit for you, daoneandonly:

https://www.reddit.com/r/HistoricalCapsule/comments/1h9v751/priests_salute_hitler_during_a_catholic_youth/#lightbox

[dobrojim]

Ironic how the same folk who preach moral values
often seem to have a preference for the person
with the most documented finding of failure in
values ie most criminal convictions, most findings
of civil liability and most payments in settlements
from civil lawsuits in our nation's history. All that
with the biggest and worst scandal to be fully teased
out. Of course all those things must be fake news
made up by TDS sufferers.

[payitforward]

Daoneandonly --

how do you respond to dobrojim?

Do you agree that Donald Trump is an evil human being? Based on evidence easily available to any who care to look at it?

&, when it becomes clear that he was one of Epstein's recipients? Will that do? Will you then call him out as the evil man he is?

Respectfully, please answer these questions.

[dobrojim]

Accidental duplication

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

The Christians who preach love and demonstrate hatred are hypocrites. Christians who enslaved others for life were no different from MAGA members today. Their hearts are/were hardened. Ultimately, MAGA members are cult followers and not Christians. Trump or money is their god.

Zionist Jews who follow Netanyahu are the new Hitler. With the US totally on board, they are conducting a genocide of Palestinians in Gaza.

Faiths are principled and have dogma or rules. They illustrate what ideal behavior should be. Mankind, however, in real behavior, doesn't color between the lines.

Trump is an insidious monster.

The people who support him essentially want to take a rake to beach sand and sweep everything away. They want condos where humans once chilled in affordable open areas. They want Whites and tourists. The help can park cars or become cabana boys.

I call him a monster because of his plans to deport and incarcerate and to use the military against US citizens. Private firms will profit from larger prisons. Trump is establishing his own Gestapo. He is policing free speech. He is coming after thinkers, universities, and students, especially internationals. He's attacking law firms who represent his critics.

Trump is the worst American, perhaps ever. He undermines our constitution. He is in bed with Putin and oligarchs from South Africa. His flunky Hegseth just fired the DIA Lieutenant General and a Navy Seal for something internal. Basically, to not agree with Trump means you are out. Trump is the epitome of an evil dictator.

[Zonkerbl]

yeah blah blah blah income disparity, poverty causes crime, stop with the garbage. Poor people don'tt commit crimes, low-life degenerates do. Poor people don't put others' lives and safety in danger, low-life degenerates do. did you turn to crime when you and your family were all crammed in a small apartment like you claim? If no, then yea because lack of income doesnt turn to crime, if yes, then you are a low life who shouldn't walk the streets

SO that book you recommend I read, shove it

I lived in Anacostia for nine years, got my house broken into once, a teenager was shot to death on my block as a gang initiation rite, and I had stuff regularly stolen off my porch. What did I learn from that? Anacostia SUCKS. I lived in Eckington and Wheaton for extended periods and nothing like that ever happened there. The whole city is a funnel that rich people kick poor people into and Anacostia is where they end up. That says ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about DC as a whole. Every FRICKING city in the US is EXACTLY LIKE THIS. All the poor people get herded into one super poor area where all the crime happens and if you can't afford to live anywhere else, you experience a lot of crime. That describes ALL OF AMERICA right now.

The overall violent crime rate is at an all time low right now. You lived in a crap neighborhood and experienced a lot of crime. Your sample is non representative of the overall trend. It is biased by the way late stage capitalism criminalizes poverty. You are going to die ten years early from unnecessary hate. Fix your mind.

You also need to learn statistics. Poor people are MORE LIKELY to commit violent crimes. Being a low life degenerate has nothing to do with anything. Rich low life degenerates don't commit violent crimes, they run for president

That's just it. I didn't live (nor did my family) in DC ever, and by God's grace, I never will or will never go back. This was broad daylight going to work (or college) when all these things happened. So it's not like we were up to no good at night. We were just doing something most Democrats hate, working without expecting someone else to cover my expenses.

Once again poverty in America is nothing compared to that in other countries. There are villages in my native India with slums that make Anacostia look like Potomac MD, yet those slums aren't leaps and bounds more violent than other parts of India, because being poor doesn't give you an excuse to be a libertine, interesting how the root of that word is so similar to another many here identify with?

Hold on a second, isn't this you???

"You must have missed the part where I said I spent 9 years in DC."

DID YOU OR DID YOU NOT LIVE IN DC and if you have dementia get help immediately

If you don't have dementia would you PLEASE STOP WASTING OUR TIME WITH YOUR CRAZY ISH

[Zonkerbl]

What is this guy even talking about? You can tell his brain is totally f'd up on Fox News propaganda, democrats hate working? Let me guess, we don't know how many genders there are too, right?

I actually watch News Nation, pretty down the middle and not biased like CNN, MSNBC< and the aforementioned Fox.

But yes, there are only 2 genders, not this fluid thing the left believes. Funny how science is huge and important when it fits the left's argument, but XX and XY chromosomes, not so much.

What do you think the word "gender" means?

We already have a word for physical sex characteristics. It would be stupid and ignorant to assume gender means the same thing. That's just assuming what you want to be true, the sign of a weak mind.

"Gender" is the role people with penises and vaginas are expected to play in society. Like the position you play in basketball, short players are expected to be point guards and tall people are expected to be centers. Although one of the most famous point guards of all time was tall enough to be a center, and played center his first year. But his natural role was point guard.

Statistically, most people are most comfortable playing the role corresponding to their genitalia. About 2% aren't. Like Magic Johnson is more comfortable playing point guard, these people are more comfortable playing a different role.

Why do we care? Why not force these outliers to conform to the behavior of the other 97%? Well, first of all, that's fascism. If they're not hurting anybody, it's none of your goddamn business. Stop bullying them and leave them alone. Second, people like this are much more likely to commit suicide. Someone who is trans and clinically depressed is, if memory serves, 2 or 3 times more likely to attempt suicide than someone who is just clinically depressed. These suicide attempts most often occur during adolescence. So parents and psychologists have discovered they can drastically reduce the suicide rate of trans kids, not by giving them anti-depressant drugs that sometimes have horrible side effects, but by allowing them to "occupy" their preferred role.

Now, before you jump in rudely and say, oh I don't have a problem with trans people, this is all about fairness in sports, first you sound like a gamergater, which is pathetic, and it's wrong. There is no fairness issue that the various sports organizations have not already handled, or are in the process of handling. It's none of our business, it's not the government's business, and it's absolutely not the Republicans' business to stick their noses in when they're not wanted, stirring things up to generate fear and hatred, knowing full well that their unnecessary and unsolicited meddling will result in KIDS DYING.

Mind your own damn business.

[payitforward]

Thanks, Zonk -- excellent post!

[doclinkin]

Ultimately whether it’s about carrying a pregnancy to term or prescribing hormones to troubled individuals it seems to me that’s an issue that should be in consultation with a medical professional.

‘First do no harm’ is not an oath that politicians swear. Thousands of doctors consult over the latest science to decide a standard of care that is reasonable ethical and humane. Voters and politicians can be swayed by whatever emotion can be stirred up in a 30 second ad or a 5 minute news segment. But we have thousands of years of science assessing the risks and facts of childbirth. Hundreds of years of science considering mental health and hormone treatments.

The debate over who uses which bathroom stall is pointless to me. If a violent deviant wanted to commit an act of abuse they wouldn’t be stopped by a sign on a door that says ‘ladies’. Unless you’re doing a stop and frisk to peek at someone’s genitals you wouldn’t know who is using what door. Mostly it’s pointless. You don’t need new laws for what is already on the books. You have laws that deal with actions, not with fears of what might happen. Assault would be assault no matter who committed it. There’s no study suggesting that the tiny % of folk who undergo hormone treatment are more likely to assault people in bathrooms. And nobody is getting their body parts surgically altered just to listen to someone tinkle.

But if a medical doctor with 12 years of advanced schooling and a lifetime of practice says someone would be less likely to commit suicide if they had hormone treatments, then it’s not my business to override a doctor because it makes me feel squeamish. The doctors job is to save a life. Make life better. Not my business.

Likewise if medical science determines the difference between a baby and a collection of cells, or decides that the fetus cannot live outside the womb and is a danger to the mother, then I’m comfortable with science making that decision— and not relying on a book written in the desert a few thousand years ago when they said you should be punished severely for trimming your beard. Or eating shrimp.

[Silvie Lysandra]

What is this guy even talking about? You can tell his brain is totally f'd up on Fox News propaganda, democrats hate working? Let me guess, we don't know how many genders there are too, right?

I actually watch News Nation, pretty down the middle and not biased like CNN, MSNBC< and the aforementioned Fox.

But yes, there are only 2 genders, not this fluid thing the left believes. Funny how science is huge and important when it fits the left's argument, but XX and XY chromosomes, not so much.

What do you think the word "gender" means?

We already have a word for physical sex characteristics. It would be stupid and ignorant to assume gender means the same thing. That's just assuming what you want to be true, the sign of a weak mind.

"Gender" is the role people with penises and vaginas are expected to play in society. Like the position you play in basketball, short players are expected to be point guards and tall people are expected to be centers. Although one of the most famous point guards of all time was tall enough to be a center, and played center his first year. But his natural role was point guard.


Mind your own damn business.

So let me chime in as someone who is trans, haha (not to say that I don't disagree with the overall message!)

I don't like the gender/sex distinction, because it concedes a key point that "oh trans people really *biologically* are our assigned gender at birth", when in reality, outside the ability to have kids without adoption or medical intervention (surrogacy, etc), there's a lot that goes into "biological sex", especially when hormonal treatment comes into play, and most biologists will tell you this.

I took HRT, and subsequently developed female secondary sex characteristics. My body changed in far more of a female direction. Even my endo points out that I carry weight differently and my metabolic profile is different.

The thing about "sex vs gender" is that it's the same damn thing. We had a concept of "woman" before we knew what a chromosome was. We saw that most women to have these characteristics, and assigned these characteristics into the "biologically female" bucket. Sure it's true for most women, but that was still a societal decision we made. The way we decided "nobody with XY or XXY or etc could ever be female" was a societal call, not a purely scientific call.

[pancakes3]

If a violent deviant wanted to commit an act of abuse they wouldn’t be stopped by a sign on a door that says ‘ladies’.

like how Trump went into a women's-only changing room and raped E Jean Carroll