Rumors, Random Thoughts, and Non-threadworthy Posts The 19th Hole

[Scoot McGroot]

Can any amount of picks fix this? I know it would require significant firsts from BOS/CHI, but before bothering figuring out which ones, is it even salvageable from CLE standpoint?

CHI: Garland for Vuc, Phillips, Smith and picks
BOS: Allen for Simons and picks
CLE: Simons, Smith, Phillips for Garland, Allen
BKN: Vuc

CLE saves $20.5M this year (and huge multiples in taxes) and gets off long term $. Possibly ducks 2nd if fanspo is right, but that's shaky so I'm not claiming it. Replace Garland's scoring with Simons, and Smith as a backup big. But, do they want to save money that much and get lots of picks in the process - or suck it up and pay something like $150M in taxes to run it back?

BOS gets a huge upgrade at C for Simons and picks and saves $7.6M. Gets them within easy ducking of the tax with another move.

CHI gets a focal point for loose ends and picks. Probably gets additional assets for White separately.

BKN reaches the floor and gets paid to do it, then probably turns around and gets paid for sending Vuc elsewhere later.

Fanspo image in spoiler.

Spoiler:

You list picks outgoing from Boston and Chicago, but no mention of where they’re going, or how many? I imagine some are going to Brooklyn to eat Vucevic with no returning salary? Cleveland would be owed a TON of picks here. Just so many that I doubt Boston and Cleveland are willing to pay the required picks?

I can’t imagine that Cleveland sees the east as wide open as it is and just decides to throw in the towel on this year, and likely the Mitchell era there, to save money? while not getting back a long term keeper of any sort? Gilbert has laid a ton of tax. And been open about willing to pay tax. I think he wants a championship?

[brackdan70]

Can any amount of picks fix this? I know it would require significant firsts from BOS/CHI, but before bothering figuring out which ones, is it even salvageable from CLE standpoint?

CHI: Garland for Vuc, Phillips, Smith and picks
BOS: Allen for Simons and picks
CLE: Simons, Smith, Phillips for Garland, Allen
BKN: Vuc

CLE saves $20.5M this year (and huge multiples in taxes) and gets off long term $. Possibly ducks 2nd if fanspo is right, but that's shaky so I'm not claiming it. Replace Garland's scoring with Simons, and Smith as a backup big. But, do they want to save money that much and get lots of picks in the process - or suck it up and pay something like $150M in taxes to run it back?

BOS gets a huge upgrade at C for Simons and picks and saves $7.6M. Gets them within easy ducking of the tax with another move.

CHI gets a focal point for loose ends and picks. Probably gets additional assets for White separately.

BKN reaches the floor and gets paid to do it, then probably turns around and gets paid for sending Vuc elsewhere later.

Fanspo image in spoiler.

Spoiler:

You list picks outgoing from Boston and Chicago, but no mention of where they’re going, or how many? I imagine some are going to Brooklyn to eat Vucevic with no returning salary? Cleveland would be owed a TON of picks here. Just so many that I doubt Boston and Cleveland are willing to pay the required picks?

I can’t imagine that Cleveland sees the east as wide open as it is and just decides to throw in the towel on this year, and likely the Mitchell era there, to save money? while not getting back a long term keeper of any sort? Gilbert has laid a ton of tax. And been open about willing to pay tax. I think he wants a championship?

Though there has been rumors of breaking it up I have to believe Cleveland makes one more shot with the current team. It’s a really good team when healthy.
I think Boston probably owes Cleveland two firsts and Brooklyn a good second. I think Chicago owes Cleveland a first and Brooklyn a good second.

[djFan71]

Can any amount of picks fix this? I know it would require significant firsts from BOS/CHI, but before bothering figuring out which ones, is it even salvageable from CLE standpoint?

CHI: Garland for Vuc, Phillips, Smith and picks
BOS: Allen for Simons and picks
CLE: Simons, Smith, Phillips for Garland, Allen
BKN: Vuc

CLE saves $20.5M this year (and huge multiples in taxes) and gets off long term $. Possibly ducks 2nd if fanspo is right, but that's shaky so I'm not claiming it. Replace Garland's scoring with Simons, and Smith as a backup big. But, do they want to save money that much and get lots of picks in the process - or suck it up and pay something like $150M in taxes to run it back?

BOS gets a huge upgrade at C for Simons and picks and saves $7.6M. Gets them within easy ducking of the tax with another move.

CHI gets a focal point for loose ends and picks. Probably gets additional assets for White separately.

BKN reaches the floor and gets paid to do it, then probably turns around and gets paid for sending Vuc elsewhere later.

Fanspo image in spoiler.

Spoiler:

You list picks outgoing from Boston and Chicago, but no mention of where they’re going, or how many? I imagine some are going to Brooklyn to eat Vucevic with no returning salary? Cleveland would be owed a TON of picks here. Just so many that I doubt Boston and Cleveland are willing to pay the required picks?

I can’t imagine that Cleveland sees the east as wide open as it is and just decides to throw in the towel on this year, and likely the Mitchell era there, to save money? while not getting back a long term keeper of any sort? Gilbert has laid a ton of tax. And been open about willing to pay tax. I think he wants a championship?

Yeah, I was looking to see if the basis was worth exploring what picks went where. Sorry if I didn't explain that well enough. The 2nd part of what you said is what I couldn't get past. Their tax bill is pretty nuts right now, but this is probably too far. I figured as much, but I couldn't find a way to trim it down much. Maybe remove BOS and rework with Garland/White basis. But most likely CLE give it one more shot, maybe trim $5-10M somewhere else and save a ton of the tax money that way at most.

[daoneandonly]

Monk up for grabs apparently...

I mean that's insane, any team should want this guy.

What's the offer if GSW don't want him for Kuminga?

Small, 6th man combo guard on a 3 for 60. Not a terrible deal, but I don't see the value.

Yea agree with youngcrev. The most I'd offer for Dallas is Klay and filler like Omax if GSW doesn't want Monk but would welcome a Klay retirement tour reunion.

[Scoot McGroot]

Can any amount of picks fix this? I know it would require significant firsts from BOS/CHI, but before bothering figuring out which ones, is it even salvageable from CLE standpoint?

CHI: Garland for Vuc, Phillips, Smith and picks
BOS: Allen for Simons and picks
CLE: Simons, Smith, Phillips for Garland, Allen
BKN: Vuc

CLE saves $20.5M this year (and huge multiples in taxes) and gets off long term $. Possibly ducks 2nd if fanspo is right, but that's shaky so I'm not claiming it. Replace Garland's scoring with Simons, and Smith as a backup big. But, do they want to save money that much and get lots of picks in the process - or suck it up and pay something like $150M in taxes to run it back?

BOS gets a huge upgrade at C for Simons and picks and saves $7.6M. Gets them within easy ducking of the tax with another move.

CHI gets a focal point for loose ends and picks. Probably gets additional assets for White separately.

BKN reaches the floor and gets paid to do it, then probably turns around and gets paid for sending Vuc elsewhere later.

Fanspo image in spoiler.

Spoiler:

You list picks outgoing from Boston and Chicago, but no mention of where they’re going, or how many? I imagine some are going to Brooklyn to eat Vucevic with no returning salary? Cleveland would be owed a TON of picks here. Just so many that I doubt Boston and Cleveland are willing to pay the required picks?

I can’t imagine that Cleveland sees the east as wide open as it is and just decides to throw in the towel on this year, and likely the Mitchell era there, to save money? while not getting back a long term keeper of any sort? Gilbert has laid a ton of tax. And been open about willing to pay tax. I think he wants a championship?

Yeah, I was looking to see if the basis was worth exploring what picks went where. Sorry if I didn't explain that well enough. The 2nd part of what you said is what I couldn't get past. Their tax bill is pretty nuts right now, but this is probably too far. I figured as much, but I couldn't find a way to trim it down much. Maybe remove BOS and rework with Garland/White basis. But most likely CLE give it one more shot, maybe trim $5-10M somewhere else and save a ton of the tax money that way at most.

Agreed. It’s a lot, for sure, but the East is RIGHT THERE FOR THE TAKING. Feels like if they don’t take one big chance this year, then they have to rethink their construction and look for savings. But gotta give it that one more chance.

If they struggle this year and look for tax savings, I could see moves centered around Lonzo, Wade, or Merrill into someone’s MLE? Maybe Hunter for a lesser salary? Maybe just Allen or Garland in a move? Definitely not both, imo.

[jbk1234]

You list picks outgoing from Boston and Chicago, but no mention of where they’re going, or how many? I imagine some are going to Brooklyn to eat Vucevic with no returning salary? Cleveland would be owed a TON of picks here. Just so many that I doubt Boston and Cleveland are willing to pay the required picks?

I can’t imagine that Cleveland sees the east as wide open as it is and just decides to throw in the towel on this year, and likely the Mitchell era there, to save money? while not getting back a long term keeper of any sort? Gilbert has laid a ton of tax. And been open about willing to pay tax. I think he wants a championship?

Yeah, I was looking to see if the basis was worth exploring what picks went where. Sorry if I didn't explain that well enough. The 2nd part of what you said is what I couldn't get past. Their tax bill is pretty nuts right now, but this is probably too far. I figured as much, but I couldn't find a way to trim it down much. Maybe remove BOS and rework with Garland/White basis. But most likely CLE give it one more shot, maybe trim $5-10M somewhere else and save a ton of the tax money that way at most.

Agreed. It’s a lot, for sure, but the East is RIGHT THERE FOR THE TAKING. Feels like if they don’t take one big chance this year, then they have to rethink their construction and look for savings. But gotta give it that one more chance.

If they struggle this year and look for tax savings, I could see moves centered around Lonzo, Wade, or Merrill into someone’s MLE? Maybe Hunter for a lesser salary? Maybe just Allen or Garland in a move? Definitely not both, imo.

They explored Wade for cap space and picks earlier this summer, but that's the type of move they'd be open to right now. This is their first year in the tax since LBJ went to L.A. so the repeater tax isn't an issue this season or the next. If they do nothing this season, Wade and Ball fall off the books next summer. Strus and Hunter will be on expiring deals. They'll have to make extension decisions on both Garland and Mitchell. Next summer they'll jave decisions to make, but they're running it back this season.

There really isn't a pick package that gets them to not take the shot this season.

[djFan71]

Yeah, I was looking to see if the basis was worth exploring what picks went where. Sorry if I didn't explain that well enough. The 2nd part of what you said is what I couldn't get past. Their tax bill is pretty nuts right now, but this is probably too far. I figured as much, but I couldn't find a way to trim it down much. Maybe remove BOS and rework with Garland/White basis. But most likely CLE give it one more shot, maybe trim $5-10M somewhere else and save a ton of the tax money that way at most.

Agreed. It’s a lot, for sure, but the East is RIGHT THERE FOR THE TAKING. Feels like if they don’t take one big chance this year, then they have to rethink their construction and look for savings. But gotta give it that one more chance.

If they struggle this year and look for tax savings, I could see moves centered around Lonzo, Wade, or Merrill into someone’s MLE? Maybe Hunter for a lesser salary? Maybe just Allen or Garland in a move? Definitely not both, imo.

They explored Wade for cap space and picks earlier this summer, but that's the type of move they'd be open to right now. This is their first year in the tax since LBJ went to L.A. so the repeater tax isn't an issue this season or the next. If they do nothing this season, Wade and Ball fall off the books next summer. Strus and Hunter will be on expiring deals. They'll have to make extension decisions on both Garland and Mitchell. Next summer they'll jave decisions to make, but they're running it back this season.

There really isn't a pick package that gets them to not take the shot this season.

Thanks for the info. That all makes sense.

[jayjaysee]

Random bad idea.. - Chicago should be tanking but since they don’t do that..

Collins, Williams, Huerter, Carter, 2026 Portland first, 2026 protected (top 10?) Chicago first for MPJ and Claxton

Chicago - Claxton/Vuc split minutes for a season and the center position becomes very strong, instead of just deep.. Matas/MPJ start at forwards with Noa/Okoro and other young guys behind them. Still could use the MLE via trade on another forward if you wanted..

Claxton/Vuc/Jalen
Matas/Noa
MPJ/Okoro
White/Ayo
Giddey/Tre

(Or however you think?)

Brooklyn gets two firsts, strips the last bit of talent on the roster to tank properly this year and opens up 45 million more in cap space for next summer?

[psman2]

Random bad idea.. - Chicago should be tanking but since they don’t do that..

Collins, Williams, Huerter, Carter, 2026 Portland first, 2026 protected (top 10?) Chicago first for MPJ and Claxton

Chicago - Claxton/Vuc split minutes for a season and the center position becomes very strong, instead of just deep.. Matas/MPJ start at forwards with Noa/Okoro and other young guys behind them. Still could use the MLE via trade on another forward if you wanted..

Claxton/Vuc/Jalen
Matas/Noa
MPJ/Okoro
White/Ayo
Giddey/Tre

(Or however you think?)

Brooklyn gets two firsts, strips the last bit of talent on the roster to tank properly this year and opens up 45 million more in cap space for next summer?

Brooklyn should do it. No one else is going be knocking on their door with 1sts for that pair. Chicago shouldn't, but they do a lot of things they shouldn't do. I just don't think that team can stand up defensively. Claxton is a above average on D, specially good at switching, but that team has no defensive talent outside of him and Clax gets push around against bigger centers once they get into the playoffs.

I think Chicago should just like Giddey play giddey ball for 55 games and then rest and tank away the season to a good lottery pick. Trade White for best deal asap. Giddey/Matas/top #5 pick could be the start of a real team.

[jayjaysee]

Random bad idea.. - Chicago should be tanking but since they don’t do that..

Collins, Williams, Huerter, Carter, 2026 Portland first, 2026 protected (top 10?) Chicago first for MPJ and Claxton

Chicago - Claxton/Vuc split minutes for a season and the center position becomes very strong, instead of just deep.. Matas/MPJ start at forwards with Noa/Okoro and other young guys behind them. Still could use the MLE via trade on another forward if you wanted..

Claxton/Vuc/Jalen
Matas/Noa
MPJ/Okoro
White/Ayo
Giddey/Tre

(Or however you think?)

Brooklyn gets two firsts, strips the last bit of talent on the roster to tank properly this year and opens up 45 million more in cap space for next summer?

Brooklyn should do it. No one else is going be knocking on their door with 1sts for that pair. Chicago shouldn't, but they do a lot of things they shouldn't do. I just don't think that team can stand up defensively. Claxton is a above average on D, specially good at switching, but that team has no defensive talent outside of him and Clax gets push around against bigger centers once they get into the playoffs.

I think Chicago should just like Giddey play giddey ball for 55 games and then rest and tank away the season to a good lottery pick. Trade White for best deal asap. Giddey/Matas/top #5 pick could be the start of a real team.

The defense on the suggested team would be pretty rough, but offense would be good and tickets would be sold?

I agree with all of your post though, and Chicago would look great moving forward if they did it. Just don’t think that’s the direction the team wants to go in.

I like Noa’s potential as well next to Matas… you could picture Giddey/Peterson/Matas/Noa developing well together and just needing to fill the center spot and go back to play-in chasing.

[jayjaysee]

Random bad ideas cont..

Gafford to CLT
Prosper, Klay, 2026 Orlando/Mem first, distant Dallas second to Phoenix
Grayson, Connaughton and Richards to Dallas

CLT gets a center.

Phoenix gets a first and a lesser backup shooting guard.

Dallas gets the better guard and a lesser backup center. If Dallas had seconds, you could dump Connaughton and get under the first apron but instead we have Caleb Martin and other questionable moves.. Still saves enough for Exum once you open the roster spot..?

[brackdan70]

Random bad ideas cont..

Gafford to CLT
Prosper, Klay, 2026 Orlando/Mem first, distant Dallas second to Phoenix
Grayson, Connaughton and Richards to Dallas

CLT gets a center.

Phoenix gets a first and a lesser backup shooting guard.

Dallas gets the better guard and a lesser backup center. If Dallas had seconds, you could dump Connaughton and get under the first apron but instead we have Caleb Martin and other questionable moves.. Still saves enough for Exum once you open the roster spot..?

I am not understanding why PHX gets a first here?

[jayjaysee]

Random bad ideas cont..

Gafford to CLT
Prosper, Klay, 2026 Orlando/Mem first, distant Dallas second to Phoenix
Grayson, Connaughton and Richards to Dallas

CLT gets a center.

Phoenix gets a first and a lesser backup shooting guard.

Dallas gets the better guard and a lesser backup center. If Dallas had seconds, you could dump Connaughton and get under the first apron but instead we have Caleb Martin and other questionable moves.. Still saves enough for Exum once you open the roster spot..?

I am not understanding why PHX gets a first here?

I feel like Grayson/Klay swap is worth a late first? Prosper/2nd for Richards seems about right.

Would love to be wrong though and CLT just splits a stack of seconds between Dallas/Phoenix.

[brackdan70]

Random bad ideas cont..

Gafford to CLT
Prosper, Klay, 2026 Orlando/Mem first, distant Dallas second to Phoenix
Grayson, Connaughton and Richards to Dallas

CLT gets a center.

Phoenix gets a first and a lesser backup shooting guard.

Dallas gets the better guard and a lesser backup center. If Dallas had seconds, you could dump Connaughton and get under the first apron but instead we have Caleb Martin and other questionable moves.. Still saves enough for Exum once you open the roster spot..?

I am not understanding why PHX gets a first here?

I feel like Grayson/Klay swap is worth a late first? Prosper/2nd for Richards seems about right.

Would love to be wrong though and CLT just splits a stack of seconds between Dallas/Phoenix.

Ok…maybe I am not impressed enough with Grayson? He makes similar per year to Klay, but an extra year, production is similar and he is of course 6 years younger. I wouldn’t give a first for Grayson here….unless you think Klay is dead money and totally cooked.
Edit: Grayson has an advantage in impact stats, but it’s not like he is high end player.

[Godaddycurse]

I am not understanding why PHX gets a first here?

I feel like Grayson/Klay swap is worth a late first? Prosper/2nd for Richards seems about right.

Would love to be wrong though and CLT just splits a stack of seconds between Dallas/Phoenix.

Ok…maybe I am not impressed enough with Grayson? He makes similar per year to Klay, but an extra year, production is similar and he is of course 6 years younger. I would give a first for Grayson here….unless you think Klay is dead money and totally cooked.
Edit: Grayson has an advantage in impact stats, but it’s not like he is high end player.

Grayson is a better shooter and much better defender

[brackdan70]

I feel like Grayson/Klay swap is worth a late first? Prosper/2nd for Richards seems about right.

Would love to be wrong though and CLT just splits a stack of seconds between Dallas/Phoenix.

Ok…maybe I am not impressed enough with Grayson? He makes similar per year to Klay, but an extra year, production is similar and he is of course 6 years younger. I would give a first for Grayson here….unless you think Klay is dead money and totally cooked.
Edit: Grayson has an advantage in impact stats, but it’s not like he is high end player.

Grayson is a better shooter and much better defender

Yeah I agree. I don’t think the difference is worth a first round pick though. Grayson is just a role player.

[Godaddycurse]

Ok…maybe I am not impressed enough with Grayson? He makes similar per year to Klay, but an extra year, production is similar and he is of course 6 years younger. I would give a first for Grayson here….unless you think Klay is dead money and totally cooked.
Edit: Grayson has an advantage in impact stats, but it’s not like he is high end player.

Grayson is a better shooter and much better defender

Yeah I agree. I don’t think the difference is worth a first round pick though. Grayson is just a role player.

Good Role player can fetch a first

[Devilanche]

Have enough future first been locked up in non-contenders that the top bid for decent role players changed from late first to a grab bag of seconds?

[giberish]

Have enough future first been locked up in non-contenders that the top bid for decent role players changed from late first to a grab bag of seconds?

Somewhat. The right guys can still get a 1st in return. And it's always been the case that fans of non-competing teams feel that all their playable vets should return 1st round picks in a trade when most of them won't.

[Devilanche]

Have enough future first been locked up in non-contenders that the top bid for decent role players changed from late first to a grab bag of seconds?

Somewhat. The right guys can still get a 1st in return. And it's always been the case that fans of non-competing teams feel that all their playable vets should return 1st round picks in a trade when most of them won't.

Few years back . Grayson archtype would have garnered a first for sure. Not sure if there’s any value attached to current klay.