Top 25 peaks for 25 years periods - voting panel thread

[tsherkin]

I continue to be amazed ShaqAttac is allowed to participate in projects, given the obviously unserious way in which they post. If they're not a burner they are surely a parody account.

ShaqAttac has been banned for 3 weeks, hoss.

[DraymondGold]

So, before I respond to some of these posts, I will note that I will cheerily defer to whatever 70s wants to do.

That said...

The majority of the people in the recent projects discussion/scandal thread seemed to favor some sort of filtering of who voted in these projects, so I tend to favor the popular opinion here. There were debates on the best way to filter voters in that thread, but it did seem like most people favored some sort of voter threshold.

Yes. And?

What? The 'and' is literally in the rest of the post you cropped out... ?

-70s asked what people thought on an issue.
-I pointed out a lot of people already voiced their thought on the issue in another thread.
-I then gave my opinion on the issue, saying I agreed with popular opinion and explained my reasoning.

Was something in my post unclear?

To be clear:
-70s said -- what should we do with the new members?
-I pointed out that most people in the other thread were in favor of some threshold, be it minimum post number, minimum +1 number, or minimum account age, which would allow these new members to discuss but not vote in the current project .
-I said that I agreed with popular opinion, that there should be some threshold or some other sort of filter and explained why (e.g. if a new poster were involved in the scandal of the last cancelled peaks project, they shouldn't vote in the redo of the cancelled peaks project; and should instead participate in the discussion, and continue to show good contributions on this forum until the post number, +1 number, or account age is reached for the next project).

[tsherkin]

What? The 'and' is literally in the rest of the post you cropped out... ?

You're responding to my opinion on the subject. You replied to me and rehashed a bunch of stuff without connecting to it why I should care.

-70s asked what people thought on an issue.
-I pointed out a lot of people already voiced their thought on the issue in another thread.
-I then gave my opinion on the issue, saying I agreed with popular opinion and explained my reasoning.

Was something in my post unclear?

Yes. It was unclear why you bothered to quote me, that's the whole reason I said "And?" Because you started by quoting me and then never actually explained why that happened.

[LA Bird]

I think people are getting sidetracked by this "substance" discussion for these posters. AEngima and OhayoKD weren't banned because they lacked substance in their posts. So why would any account posting scripted answers from them have that problem? The solution here is really simple - mods announce all the accounts that were confirmed to be posting scripted votes, they get blacklisted, and we move on. But instead this mess is getting dragged out because the mods want to give the scripted accounts the benefit of the doubt but all they have accomplished is spread the doubt to every new account whether guilty or innocent.

So, they weren't banned. They weren't blacklisted. And unless that happens, then at some point, they do need to be permitted to reintegrate into the community. Sure, a 1-year threshold (or whatever is decided) is fine and all that, but given that no action was taken against them, the presumption then is that they are to be permitted to participate in the forum as with anyone else, after all.

No action was taken against the two banned posters for a long time too. Not because it's the right thing to do but because half of the mod team is inactive and the other half is too nice to take the necessary measures until it is far too late. The grain master nonsense was so blatantly obvious yet nothing was done about it. As was the troll account voting random players in the RPOY just to stress test mod response. That's how this whole thing even blew up - mods did nothing for so long that they got overconfident, they didn't bother to cover their tracks, and ultimately got exposed.

OhayoKD and AEnigma were banned for scripting accounts. If that wasn't a serious offense, there wouldn't be a scandal in the first place. Yet, despite knowning the existence of such scripted accounts and banning their operators, the mods are not going to permaban the actual accounts that posted scripted votes because... why? Innocent accounts should absolutely be reintegrated into the community. The problem is we don't know which accounts are those because the mods have treated the guilty scripted accounts the same as the innocent accounts by letting them off the hook.

[Ol Roy]

My impression from the scandal thread was that, when the posters involved in the scam chimed in, the gist of their comments (almost formulaically) was like this:

"they (Ohayo/AE) did nothing wrong, we did nothing wrong, stop persecuting us because you disagree with our opinions, please move on and stop talking about it."

With that kind of unrepentant attitude, I wouldn't include them in future projects.

[DraymondGold]

What? The 'and' is literally in the rest of the post you cropped out... ?

You're responding to my opinion on the subject. You replied to me and rehashed a bunch of stuff without connecting to it why I should care.

-70s asked what people thought on an issue.
-I pointed out a lot of people already voiced their thought on the issue in another thread.
-I then gave my opinion on the issue, saying I agreed with popular opinion and explained my reasoning.

Was something in my post unclear?

Yes. It was unclear why you bothered to quote me, that's the whole reason I said "And?" Because you started by quoting me and then never actually explained why that happened.

Oh.

Well, I responded to you because you were the only person who had voiced an opinion at the time of that post. I wasn’t sure whether anyone else would voice their opinion, so I wanted to let you know that I had posted a slight disagreement, in case you wanted to reply. You’re usually a thoughtful and thorough guy, but only said two sentences in that post, so I figured you might want to keep defending your original stance in more detail.

I suppose you’re right that it wasn’t explicitly directed at anything you said — but it also didn’t seem like the kind of thread where a reasonable person would have some flaw in their logic. We were both just expressing our opinion on what would make a better project (generating more discussion on your end vs being more secure against another scandal on my end).

I never connected it to why you should care? I didn’t realize you didn’t care. I figured we both basketball fans who cared enough about learning about basketball, or cared enough about the community of basketball fans here, that we could discuss what was best for the basketball discussion and community here, and ultimately help 70s come to some decision. It never occurred to me that you wouldn’t care about the opinions of other posters in this community — since we all post here regularly to learn from each other and engage with other active basketball fans.

From your tone, I somehow seem to have offended or angered you. I have genuinely no clue how it happened. I can’t recall a single time I spoke ill of you — and it certainly wasn’t intentional if so. Heck, this is the first time I recall that I’ve ever disagreed with you, although I could be forgetting something. Apologies if something I said was hurtful or offensive to you -- it was far from my intention.

[homecourtloss]

very interesting and, of course, not surprising, that the most vehemence against a few posters participating in this is coming from the same two or three posters that like a certain player and are just as biased against another player as the people who were accused, and were the most upset that a certain player was not voted the way they feel he should've been voted in the other thread are the ones carrying on and on about a few posters, wanting to vote in this new thread.

[Peregrine01]

very interesting and, of course, not surprising, that the most vehemence against a few posters participating in this is coming from the same two or three posters that like a certain player and are just as biased against another player as the people who were accused, and were the most upset that a certain player was not voted the way they feel he should've been voted in the other thread are the ones carrying on and on about a few posters, wanting to vote in this new thread.

Everyone has bias. It's quite another thing to use burner accounts to try to rig an opinion poll in a basketball forum.

[Cavsfansince84]

very interesting and, of course, not surprising, that the most vehemence against a few posters participating in this is coming from the same two or three posters that like a certain player and are just as biased against another player as the people who were accused, and were the most upset that a certain player was not voted the way they feel he should've been voted in the other thread are the ones carrying on and on about a few posters, wanting to vote in this new thread.

Well I'd say its understandable that this group gets pushback from MJ diehards but also keep in mind that Ohayo is someone who has caused quite a bit of ill will on here in recent years with her debate style as well as burner/conspiracy shenanigans and so the people who are part of it are going to be semi resented for being her pawns. It's also something of a gray area if any were or still are alts she uses to post here. So I think a lot of us are just burnt out on this person's need to try and force everyone to bend to her opinions and the way she talks down to people who have the audacity to not agree with them.

[homecourtloss]

So, before I respond to some of these posts, I will note that I will cheerily defer to whatever 70s wants to do.

That said...

The majority of the people in the recent projects discussion/scandal thread seemed to favor some sort of filtering of who voted in these projects, so I tend to favor the popular opinion here. There were debates on the best way to filter voters in that thread, but it did seem like most people favored some sort of voter threshold.

Yes. And?

Yeah, I genuinely don’t know either way about Verticality, but FWIW Elpolo and Top10alltime are definitely two of the accounts directly implicated in the OhayoKD/AEnigma peaks project scandal. If they actually want to generate good discussion, then they’re perfectly free to do that whether they vote or not, but I’m a bit hesitant about giving votes in this redo peaks project to accounts that were amongst the alt/sock-puppet accounts that just caused the last peaks project to be shut down. I don’t feel overly strongly about voting panels though, since I definitely value the discussion more than the actual voting results.

I will say this. You can say what you want about them and their relationship to Ohayo, but they are not alts. I have spoken to both of them simultaneously with Ohayo, so unless she is THAT dedicated AND types over 200 wpm, it isn't her posting for them.

Again, whatever 70s wants to do is fine, but let's at least be accurate in how we refer to these people.

I think people are getting sidetracked by this "substance" discussion for these posters. AEngima and OhayoKD weren't banned because they lacked substance in their posts. So why would any account posting scripted answers from them have that problem? The solution here is really simple - mods announce all the accounts that were confirmed to be posting scripted votes, they get blacklisted, and we move on. But instead this mess is getting dragged out because the mods want to give the scripted accounts the benefit of the doubt but all they have accomplished is spread the doubt to every new account whether guilty or innocent.

So, they weren't banned. They weren't blacklisted. And unless that happens, then at some point, they do need to be permitted to reintegrate into the community. Sure, a 1-year threshold (or whatever is decided) is fine and all that, but given that no action was taken against them, the presumption then is that they are to be permitted to participate in the forum as with anyone else, after all.

Seems to me that the words of a forum moderator should carry more weight than the endless 500-1000 word posts from the same few posters who were the most upset about the results of the other project and are crusading against the addition of a few posters to a 20+ voter pool.

[lessthanjake]

So, before I respond to some of these posts, I will note that I will cheerily defer to whatever 70s wants to do.

That said...

The majority of the people in the recent projects discussion/scandal thread seemed to favor some sort of filtering of who voted in these projects, so I tend to favor the popular opinion here. There were debates on the best way to filter voters in that thread, but it did seem like most people favored some sort of voter threshold.

Yes. And?

Yeah, I genuinely don’t know either way about Verticality, but FWIW Elpolo and Top10alltime are definitely two of the accounts directly implicated in the OhayoKD/AEnigma peaks project scandal. If they actually want to generate good discussion, then they’re perfectly free to do that whether they vote or not, but I’m a bit hesitant about giving votes in this redo peaks project to accounts that were amongst the alt/sock-puppet accounts that just caused the last peaks project to be shut down. I don’t feel overly strongly about voting panels though, since I definitely value the discussion more than the actual voting results.

I will say this. You can say what you want about them and their relationship to Ohayo, but they are not alts. I have spoken to both of them simultaneously with Ohayo, so unless she is THAT dedicated AND types over 200 wpm, it isn't her posting for them.

Again, whatever 70s wants to do is fine, but let's at least be accurate in how we refer to these people.

I think people are getting sidetracked by this "substance" discussion for these posters. AEngima and OhayoKD weren't banned because they lacked substance in their posts. So why would any account posting scripted answers from them have that problem? The solution here is really simple - mods announce all the accounts that were confirmed to be posting scripted votes, they get blacklisted, and we move on. But instead this mess is getting dragged out because the mods want to give the scripted accounts the benefit of the doubt but all they have accomplished is spread the doubt to every new account whether guilty or innocent.

So, they weren't banned. They weren't blacklisted. And unless that happens, then at some point, they do need to be permitted to reintegrate into the community. Sure, a 1-year threshold (or whatever is decided) is fine and all that, but given that no action was taken against them, the presumption then is that they are to be permitted to participate in the forum as with anyone else, after all.

Seems to me that the words of a forum moderator should carry more weight than the endless 500-1000 word posts from the same few posters who were the most upset about the results of the other project and are crusading against the addition of a few posters to a 20+ voter pool.

What point here do you think is actually dispositive? I referred to these two accounts as “alts/sock puppets.” As did DraymondGold. Tsherkin’s post goes to the narrow question of which one of those they are. Tsherkin is well positioned to know the answer to that, since he is an active member of the Discord from which OhayoKD launched the conspiracy in the first place. So yeah, those two accounts are very likely sock puppets rather than alts. But that seems like a pretty minor point, given that nothing I posted (or that DraymondGold posted) hinges on them being alts rather than sock puppets (indeed, we both called them “alt/sock puppet”). And I’ll note that Tsherkin is not saying OhayoKD doesn’t have alts. We know for sure that they do (indeed, even the OhayoKD account itself is an alt). There’s just a question of which accounts are literally OhayoKD (for instance, almost certainly the ShaqAttac account), and which ones are separate people who acted as scripted sock puppets for OhayoKD (apparently these two accounts). But I think all the points I made in my posts apply either way (i.e. I don’t think alt accounts OR accounts that acted as sock puppets should be voting in this redo of the project they helped wreck).

I also just want to take a step back and note that, contrary to what you keep trying to imply, OhayoKD’s antics don’t just rub a small number of people the wrong way. This is someone who is notorious/legendary on multiple basketball discussion spaces for being utterly toxic and creating smurfs. For instance, OhayoKD has been banned repeatedly from the ThinkingBasketball discord for toxicity, and has used Discord alts to come back, only to be banned again. OhayoKD was also banned from RealGM in the first place several years ago (and before I was a particularly active member and before DraymondGold joined the forums). In OhayoKD’s own words, “i got banned for making smurfs and troll threads.” It is *really* not just a small number of people who have found OhayoKD’s behavior highly objectionable. It’s actually been a lot of people over a lot of years. Which is what tends to happen with a very toxic person. And, given that you keep trying to come to the defense of OhayoKD and their co-conspirators by making unconvincing and mean-spirited attacks on others, I think you might want to take a step back and wonder whether you’re actually the one who is blinded by your bias in favor of and against certain basketball players, such that you’re not able to adequately recognize behavior that is simply not okay regardless of what players the posters happen to argue in favor of or against.

[lessthanjake]

Count me in, I'll try to stick until the end.

EDIT: oh!!! Good to know you've dealt with the... erm... special guys.

I continue to be amazed ShaqAttac is allowed to participate in projects, given the obviously unserious way in which they post. If they're not a burner they are surely a parody account.

They are a burner.

Yeah, and it’s unfortunate because it means OhayoKD’s vote-manipulation antics actually implicate more than just the recently-stopped peaks project and the newer RPOY. For instance, I believe that if ShaqAttac hadn’t voted (i.e. OhayoKD voting a second time from an alt), then Magic Johnson would’ve been inducted at #9 in the 2023 RealGM Top 100, instead of Kevin Garnett. (I am assuming here that ShaqAttac is indeed an OhayoKD alt, but I think that’s a very widely held belief, and, unless I’m misreading it, I believe tsherkin’s post at the top of this page basically confirmed it by noting that ShaqAttac was banned a few weeks ago).

[Owly]

Count me in, I'll try to stick until the end.

EDIT: oh!!! Good to know you've dealt with the... erm... special guys.

I continue to be amazed ShaqAttac is allowed to participate in projects, given the obviously unserious way in which they post. If they're not a burner they are surely a parody account.

They are a burner.

Yeah, and it’s unfortunate because it means OhayoKD’s vote-manipulation antics actually implicate more than just the recently-stopped peaks project and the newer RPOY. For instance, I believe that if ShaqAttac hadn’t voted (i.e. OhayoKD voting a second time from an alt), then Magic Johnson would’ve been inducted at #9 in the 2023 RealGM Top 100, instead of Kevin Garnett. (I am assuming here that ShaqAttac is indeed an OhayoKD alt, but I think that’s a very widely held belief, and, unless I’m misreading it, I believe tsherkin’s post at the top of this page basically confirmed it by noting that ShaqAttac was banned a few weeks ago).

The (unfortunate) thing is, it's impossible to unpick what might have been without a given person/account.

Obviously in loose terms butterfly effect stuff changing the conversation, who's taking part etc. But more concretely, once one player is in a different place that changes the options. You can "undo" within one vote but you can't know how things would have been more generally.

[tsherkin]

No action was taken against the two banned posters for a long time too. Not because it's the right thing to do but because half of the mod team is inactive and the other half is too nice to take the necessary measures until it is far too late.

It wasn't about being too nice. It was about waiting for a moment when action was appropriate inside the bounds of board policy, and with some level of proof. And then there was some other stuff behind the scenes to which you were not privy. Things don't always move at a pace you might like, but you don't quite have the correct pulse on the methodology.

Oh.

Well, I responded to you because you were the only person who had voiced an opinion at the time of that post. I wasn’t sure whether anyone else would voice their opinion, so I wanted to let you know that I had posted a slight disagreement, in case you wanted to reply. You’re usually a thoughtful and thorough guy, but only said two sentences in that post, so I figured you might want to keep defending your original stance in more detail.

Maybe I'm being too particular, but if I have to deal with a notification, I generally look for it to directly attempt to elicit a response from me, as the post generally should be addressing something about what I wrote. But yeah, maybe I"m just being fussy, and if so, sorry.

I never connected it to why you should care? I didn’t realize you didn’t care. I figured we both basketball fans who cared enough about learning about basketball, or cared enough about the community of basketball fans here, that we could discuss what was best for the basketball discussion and community here, and ultimately help 70s come to some decision. It never occurred to me that you wouldn’t care about the opinions of other posters in this community — since we all post here regularly to learn from each other and engage with other active basketball fans.

No, that's not what I meant. I meant that I didn't understand why you quoted me as if you were responding to me, so I never processed why, and why that should directly involve me. It felt like you were debating my point, so my first response was as it unfolded, you know?

Anyway, maybe I'm being a dick here, and if so, my bad.

Seems to me that the words of a forum moderator should carry more weight than the endless 500-1000 word posts from the same few posters who were the most upset about the results of the other project and are crusading against the addition of a few posters to a 20+ voter pool.

For clarity, I didn't want to undercut what ltj was saying. I just wanted to point out that those specifically named ITT, I know. I am aware that they are not alts. What we want to do with them is a separate situation taht this group will decide, I was just being picky about labels, because they do have power.

What point here do you think is actually dispositive? I referred to these two accounts as “alts/sock puppets.” As did DraymondGold. Tsherkin’s post goes to the narrow question of which one of those they are. Tsherkin is well positioned to know the answer to that, since he is an active member of the Discord from which OhayoKD launched the conspiracy in the first place. So yeah, those two accounts are very likely sock puppets rather than alts. But that seems like a pretty minor point, given that nothing I posted (or that DraymondGold posted) hinges on them being alts rather than sock puppets (indeed, we both called them “alt/sock puppet”).

Yes, it was a very minor point, all told. I'd hoped that I had conveyed such, but it seems I was not successful in that regard.

[IlikeSHAIguys]

Um the post you're saying was an admission from top10alltime and you linked is saying a scripted poster was just having their own talking points or whatever they said put together and I don't think it was even talking about themselves? I kind of already was thinking this when I saw a bunch of the guys being accused defend themselves and get ignored but now that you're literally sorta just lying I think at best this whole scripting scandal was exaggerated and at worst this alot of this was drummed way up so we could do this whole what's your voter count or sign up time since that's how I guess you measure your d--k on an internet website from guys I literally only see post in peaks or the retro to say other guys can't vote were trying to be misleading so they can basically do republican voter suppression bs lol.


Like if the whole thing is people giving talking points or suggesting stuff to say or even just giving you your own stuff I'm pretty sure that doesn't make someone a sock account and the dude in that post never even says they did that. C'mon dude.

DoctorMJ said he had multiple sources of evidence confirming the scandal, and saying the 10 accounts were either alts or sock puppet accounts. I trust a guy who's been here for decades, and has a well-known history of being a great moderator and a constructive member of the community. If you think DoctorMJ or his multiple sources are mistaken/lying, take it up with him -- I'm just the messenger believing the experts here.

If you don't see an issue with banned posters making alts to get around being banned, or if you don't see the issue with making a secret coup to skew results of a forum and community that's trying their best to be objective and learn about basketball... then I find that pretty strange personally, but everyone's entitled to their own opinion. But it's pretty unambiguously against the rules of the forum and the project, so it really shouldn't be hard to get that there should be consequences for breaking the rules.

In the post I linked, Top10 says "What problems did new posters (such as myself) create", in reference to the 10 new posters who DoctorMJ confirmed were alts or sock puppet accounts. So yes, in the post I linked, they admit they're one of the posters in question.

Anyways, I've said my piece about what I think would be best for the next peaks project, and I doubt relitigating the scandal here will be be productive.

I hate to say it, but I think you’re likely responding to one of the OhayoKD alt accounts. More long-standing than some of the other ones and I don’t have concrete evidence, but if I had to do a draft of likely-OhayoKD-alt-accounts, it’d be my second pick, behind ShaqAttac (which has to be the first choice because it is just so obvious). When we know there’s lots of OhayoKD alts, and a poster doesn’t post very much but somehow was up on all the OhayoKD talking points and frequently makes meta-commentary about how much better OhayoKD’s arguments are than others, I’d say easily the most likely explanation is that it’s one of OhayoKD’s many alt accounts. (Of course, the fact that I don’t have concrete evidence of this beyond common sense from having read this poster’s posts does go to LA Bird’s point that there’s unfortunately a real negative effect on the community from knowing there’s tons of OhayoKD alts but not knowing exactly who they all are).

WTF? so like if someone is up in your points and says they like your points better I should just think they're your sock puppet? What in the 1984. I don't post every day but I'm still active here and I don't get into any of this stuff as much as you do but okay common sense yeah just like the whole lets make up confession thing.

Like I'm sorry but I read the link thing and it isn't them saying they're a sock account. How is that an OhayoKD talking point? And I'm sorry if this makes me Ohayo but I want to know what even scripted account means because sock account makes it seem like Top10alltime and Elpollo_14 were just only voting whoever OhayoKD demanded they vote for and saying whatever OhayoKD wanted them to say like mindless bots and then a bunch of people who were scripted or whatever said Ohayo gave ideas or just stuck together stuff they said. Idk if that's against rules too but that's totally different than being a sock puppet and I don't get why it's some controversy to ask which is it and with how this is being handled I'm just not believing all these people were like actual sock puppets.

[IlikeSHAIguys]

No action was taken against the two banned posters for a long time too. Not because it's the right thing to do but because half of the mod team is inactive and the other half is too nice to take the necessary measures until it is far too late.

It wasn't about being too nice. It was about waiting for a moment when action was appropriate inside the bounds of board policy, and with some level of proof. And then there was some other stuff behind the scenes to which you were not privy. Things don't always move at a pace you might like, but you don't quite have the correct pulse on the methodology.

Oh.

Well, I responded to you because you were the only person who had voiced an opinion at the time of that post. I wasn’t sure whether anyone else would voice their opinion, so I wanted to let you know that I had posted a slight disagreement, in case you wanted to reply. You’re usually a thoughtful and thorough guy, but only said two sentences in that post, so I figured you might want to keep defending your original stance in more detail.

Maybe I'm being too particular, but if I have to deal with a notification, I generally look for it to directly attempt to elicit a response from me, as the post generally should be addressing something about what I wrote. But yeah, maybe I"m just being fussy, and if so, sorry.

I never connected it to why you should care? I didn’t realize you didn’t care. I figured we both basketball fans who cared enough about learning about basketball, or cared enough about the community of basketball fans here, that we could discuss what was best for the basketball discussion and community here, and ultimately help 70s come to some decision. It never occurred to me that you wouldn’t care about the opinions of other posters in this community — since we all post here regularly to learn from each other and engage with other active basketball fans.

No, that's not what I meant. I meant that I didn't understand why you quoted me as if you were responding to me, so I never processed why, and why that should directly involve me. It felt like you were debating my point, so my first response was as it unfolded, you know?

Anyway, maybe I'm being a dick here, and if so, my bad.

Seems to me that the words of a forum moderator should carry more weight than the endless 500-1000 word posts from the same few posters who were the most upset about the results of the other project and are crusading against the addition of a few posters to a 20+ voter pool.

For clarity, I didn't want to undercut what ltj was saying. I just wanted to point out that those specifically named ITT, I know. I am aware that they are not alts. What we want to do with them is a separate situation taht this group will decide, I was just being picky about labels, because they do have power.

What point here do you think is actually dispositive? I referred to these two accounts as “alts/sock puppets.” As did DraymondGold. Tsherkin’s post goes to the narrow question of which one of those they are. Tsherkin is well positioned to know the answer to that, since he is an active member of the Discord from which OhayoKD launched the conspiracy in the first place. So yeah, those two accounts are very likely sock puppets rather than alts. But that seems like a pretty minor point, given that nothing I posted (or that DraymondGold posted) hinges on them being alts rather than sock puppets (indeed, we both called them “alt/sock puppet”).

Yes, it was a very minor point, all told. I'd hoped that I had conveyed such, but it seems I was not successful in that regard.

Okay I'm sorry to be all mean about this but if you're literally in this discord can't you literally just answer this. Like are Elpollo_14 and Top10alltime sock puppets or not? Is OhayoKD giving them the correct order and all these reasons and then saying go in the gulag. Is it like a group project? Is it spelling mistakes and typos?

Like I just don't get all this 5D chess. If there's a mod in the discord can't they just tell us what's going on actually?

[homecourtloss]

DoctorMJ said he had multiple sources of evidence confirming the scandal, and saying the 10 accounts were either alts or sock puppet accounts. I trust a guy who's been here for decades, and has a well-known history of being a great moderator and a constructive member of the community. If you think DoctorMJ or his multiple sources are mistaken/lying, take it up with him -- I'm just the messenger believing the experts here.

If you don't see an issue with banned posters making alts to get around being banned, or if you don't see the issue with making a secret coup to skew results of a forum and community that's trying their best to be objective and learn about basketball... then I find that pretty strange personally, but everyone's entitled to their own opinion. But it's pretty unambiguously against the rules of the forum and the project, so it really shouldn't be hard to get that there should be consequences for breaking the rules.

In the post I linked, Top10 says "What problems did new posters (such as myself) create", in reference to the 10 new posters who DoctorMJ confirmed were alts or sock puppet accounts. So yes, in the post I linked, they admit they're one of the posters in question.

Anyways, I've said my piece about what I think would be best for the next peaks project, and I doubt relitigating the scandal here will be be productive.

I hate to say it, but I think you’re likely responding to one of the OhayoKD alt accounts. More long-standing than some of the other ones and I don’t have concrete evidence, but if I had to do a draft of likely-OhayoKD-alt-accounts, it’d be my second pick, behind ShaqAttac (which has to be the first choice because it is just so obvious). When we know there’s lots of OhayoKD alts, and a poster doesn’t post very much but somehow was up on all the OhayoKD talking points and frequently makes meta-commentary about how much better OhayoKD’s arguments are than others, I’d say easily the most likely explanation is that it’s one of OhayoKD’s many alt accounts. (Of course, the fact that I don’t have concrete evidence of this beyond common sense from having read this poster’s posts does go to LA Bird’s point that there’s unfortunately a real negative effect on the community from knowing there’s tons of OhayoKD alts but not knowing exactly who they all are).

WTF? so like if someone is up in your points and says they like your points better I should just think they're your sock puppet? What in the 1984. I don't post every day but I'm still active here and I don't get into any of this stuff as much as you do but okay common sense yeah just like the whole lets make up confession thing.

Like I'm sorry but I read the link thing and it isn't them saying they're a sock account. How is that an OhayoKD talking point? And I'm sorry if this makes me Ohayo but I want to know what even scripted account means because sock account makes it seem like Top10alltime and Elpollo_14 were just only voting whoever OhayoKD demanded they vote for and saying whatever OhayoKD wanted them to say like mindless bots and then a bunch of people who were scripted or whatever said Ohayo gave ideas or just stuck together stuff they said. Idk if that's against rules too but that's totally different than being a sock puppet and I don't get why it's some controversy to ask which is it and with how this is being handled I'm just not believing all these people were like actual sock puppets.

Basically all because there was a certain result that certain people didn’t like. Certain people said that they were “too busy to participate” in the peaks projects, and then spent their time, which they were supposedly short on, writing up 500 word posts and sending “evidence” to the mods. As far as anyone has mentioned doing so or have shared screenshots of something or another, the only people sending in this evidence were the same few who are so passionate about making sure a few posters don’t post in this new peaks project and are the same people who are avowed fans of a certain player. It’s honestly all so strange.

Hope to move on and have good discussion.

[falcolombardi]

I hate to say it, but I think you’re likely responding to one of the OhayoKD alt accounts. More long-standing than some of the other ones and I don’t have concrete evidence, but if I had to do a draft of likely-OhayoKD-alt-accounts, it’d be my second pick, behind ShaqAttac (which has to be the first choice because it is just so obvious). When we know there’s lots of OhayoKD alts, and a poster doesn’t post very much but somehow was up on all the OhayoKD talking points and frequently makes meta-commentary about how much better OhayoKD’s arguments are than others, I’d say easily the most likely explanation is that it’s one of OhayoKD’s many alt accounts. (Of course, the fact that I don’t have concrete evidence of this beyond common sense from having read this poster’s posts does go to LA Bird’s point that there’s unfortunately a real negative effect on the community from knowing there’s tons of OhayoKD alts but not knowing exactly who they all are).

WTF? so like if someone is up in your points and says they like your points better I should just think they're your sock puppet? What in the 1984. I don't post every day but I'm still active here and I don't get into any of this stuff as much as you do but okay common sense yeah just like the whole lets make up confession thing.

Like I'm sorry but I read the link thing and it isn't them saying they're a sock account. How is that an OhayoKD talking point? And I'm sorry if this makes me Ohayo but I want to know what even scripted account means because sock account makes it seem like Top10alltime and Elpollo_14 were just only voting whoever OhayoKD demanded they vote for and saying whatever OhayoKD wanted them to say like mindless bots and then a bunch of people who were scripted or whatever said Ohayo gave ideas or just stuck together stuff they said. Idk if that's against rules too but that's totally different than being a sock puppet and I don't get why it's some controversy to ask which is it and with how this is being handled I'm just not believing all these people were like actual sock puppets.

Basically all because there was a certain result that certain people didn’t like. Certain people said that they were “too busy to participate” in the peaks projects, and then spent their time, which they were supposedly short on, writing up 500 word posts and sending “evidence” to the mods. As far as anyone has mentioned doing so or have shared screenshots of something or another, the only people sending in this evidence were the same few who are so passionate about making sure a few posters don’t post in this new peaks project and are the same people who are avowed fans of a certain player. It’s honestly all so strange.

Hope to move on and have good discussion.

All the saga seems to have been handled with the maturity and pettyness of a school prom election and cliques tbh

[Jaivl]

WTF? so like if someone is up in your points and says they like your points better I should just think they're your sock puppet? What in the 1984. I don't post every day but I'm still active here and I don't get into any of this stuff as much as you do but okay common sense yeah just like the whole lets make up confession thing.

Like I'm sorry but I read the link thing and it isn't them saying they're a sock account. How is that an OhayoKD talking point? And I'm sorry if this makes me Ohayo but I want to know what even scripted account means because sock account makes it seem like Top10alltime and Elpollo_14 were just only voting whoever OhayoKD demanded they vote for and saying whatever OhayoKD wanted them to say like mindless bots and then a bunch of people who were scripted or whatever said Ohayo gave ideas or just stuck together stuff they said. Idk if that's against rules too but that's totally different than being a sock puppet and I don't get why it's some controversy to ask which is it and with how this is being handled I'm just not believing all these people were like actual sock puppets.

Basically all because there was a certain result that certain people didn’t like. Certain people said that they were “too busy to participate” in the peaks projects, and then spent their time, which they were supposedly short on, writing up 500 word posts and sending “evidence” to the mods. As far as anyone has mentioned doing so or have shared screenshots of something or another, the only people sending in this evidence were the same few who are so passionate about making sure a few posters don’t post in this new peaks project and are the same people who are avowed fans of a certain player. It’s honestly all so strange.

Hope to move on and have good discussion.

All the saga seems to have been handled with the maturity and pettyness of a school prom election and cliques tbh

Don't be cynical...

[70sFan]

If you want to continue this discussion, please find the appropriate thread for that - this is about our new peak project and I don't want to see anything of that here.