Free Agent/Trade/Waiver Thread, 2025-26, part 2

[fallguy]

It's really difficult to get value for your players when everyone knows you have to sell.

The idea that what we acquired Jrue for Rob Williams (healthy at time), Brogdon (disgruntled but coming off 6MOY), a GSW pick in 2024 that became a late lottery pick, & a 2029 unprotected Celtics first, and we have traded him straight up for Simons who we don't want and deleting him will cost another first or a couple of seconds - > This is not great business, not at all.

Brad really got screwed that Wyc authorized 7-8 extensions way into the tax and then turned around immediately to hang a FOR SALE sign.

This is nothing against Jrue who was great in his two years, but when we moved off late 30's Paul and KG we got tons of value, and this time we havent even netted a single asset, and we just keep adding sweeteners at basically every step down

Brad Stevens made the Simons trade mainly just to get off of Jrue Holiday's $104 million. Still a great deal, Stevens was able to off-load Jrue's money.

Yea I hear that, but somebody screwed up along the way. If you pay two firsts and two players to acquire a borderline HOF level player, and you sign him to a 4 yr extension, and win a title(!) showing his worth. But that 15 months after inking the extension, you need to trade him, why is merely getting off the deal for an expiring a win? It's Jrue Holiday, you paid a lot to get him, and two years later, it's winning to just get off the money?

Either you paid him way too much or you overcooked your books and lost your leverage. Ideally, on a fair deal, in a fair transaction, Jrue is worth some value

It was a bad contract for sure. And a fairly obviously bad one when it was signed.

[GreenBlooded]

Brad Stevens made the Simons trade mainly just to get off of Jrue Holiday's $104 million. Still a great deal, Stevens was able to off-load Jrue's money.

Yea I hear that, but somebody screwed up along the way. If you pay two firsts and two players to acquire a borderline HOF level player, and you sign him to a 4 yr extension, and win a title(!) showing his worth. But that 15 months after inking the extension, you need to trade him, why is merely getting off the deal for an expiring a win? It's Jrue Holiday, you paid a lot to get him, and two years later, it's winning to just get off the money?

Either you paid him way too much or you overcooked your books and lost your leverage. Ideally, on a fair deal, in a fair transaction, Jrue is worth some value

It was a bad contract for sure. And a fairly obviously bad one when it was signed.

It was not a bad trade or a bad contract. The two guys we traded for him have played a combined 89 games over 2 seasons while taking up more cap space than Jrue. Of course the last two years of the contract were always risky but that was the price of opening a 2-3 yr championship window.

[celtxman]

Brad Stevens made the Simons trade mainly just to get off of Jrue Holiday's $104 million. Still a great deal, Stevens was able to off-load Jrue's money.

Yea I hear that, but somebody screwed up along the way. If you pay two firsts and two players to acquire a borderline HOF level player, and you sign him to a 4 yr extension, and win a title(!) showing his worth. But that 15 months after inking the extension, you need to trade him, why is merely getting off the deal for an expiring a win? It's Jrue Holiday, you paid a lot to get him, and two years later, it's winning to just get off the money?

Either you paid him way too much or you overcooked your books and lost your leverage. Ideally, on a fair deal, in a fair transaction, Jrue is worth some value

Tatum's injury changed the math and timing moving Jrue.

Yes.....but Porzingis first. Losing to the Knicks those first two games with late 20 point was unfathomable even without KP. With him healthy the Celtics win that series in 5. Doctors are split if Tatum's injury was inevitable or situational, so I'll put it this way. The Celtics could easily have won it all if KP and Tatum were reasonably healthy. The equation on Jrue changed from possibly keeping him to doing everything they could to trade him.

[redslastlaugh]

Yea I hear that, but somebody screwed up along the way. If you pay two firsts and two players to acquire a borderline HOF level player, and you sign him to a 4 yr extension, and win a title(!) showing his worth. But that 15 months after inking the extension, you need to trade him, why is merely getting off the deal for an expiring a win? It's Jrue Holiday, you paid a lot to get him, and two years later, it's winning to just get off the money?

Either you paid him way too much or you overcooked your books and lost your leverage. Ideally, on a fair deal, in a fair transaction, Jrue is worth some value

It was a bad contract for sure. And a fairly obviously bad one when it was signed.

It was not a bad trade or a bad contract. The two guys we traded for him have played a combined 89 games over 2 seasons while taking up more cap space than Jrue. Of course the last two years of the contract were always risky but that was the price of opening a 2-3 yr championship window.

I think it was a good trade, Jrue was great and we won the ring. Of course, if we didn't make that trade, we'd have had the 14th pick in 2024 draft and could have taken Jared McCain (or whoever) and had a contributor for four yrs for cheap. And then we dont know where the unprotected 2029 Celtics first round pick will land. But, again, I love Jrue and think that was a great trade, Im fine with the price, Jrue was awesome and we raised a banner.

But the trade to acquire Jrue is different from the 2024 extension in the context of the whole cap sheet given the other extensions Brad gave out.

The Jrue extension, I would agrue, was at a serious premium to what Holiday would have got on the open market had he just picked up his option and become a FA this summer.

A big part of the 2nd apron problem is we traded so many draft picks so that the team didn't have contributors on rookie deals. And then Brad just decided to extend everyone rather than trading one of KP, Derrick, Jrue or Sam and getting some assets back so the finances would be sustainable. Or just let Jrue walk like Posey if it came to that. Signing everyone and then the owner says, "we're not staying the 2nd apron," just put us in a tough spot.

We had like 9 of the top 120 players (by a metric like RAPTOR) in the entire NBA. We should get really good value if we decide to trade off a few of them. But because of the financials, we lost Al, Luke, Jrue, KP and got nothing back and basically had to pay to get rid of them. This isn't ideal, imo

[Hal14]

Tatum's injury changed the math and timing moving Jrue.

This article was like 2 months before Tatum's injury:

https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Articles/2025/03/24/celtics-grousbeck-no-nba-team-will-stay-in-second-apron-more-than-two-years/

What's your point? If the Celtics didn't make the trade and kept Jrue they'd still be under the second apron rn.

Point is:

a) Wyc said 2 months before Tatum injury that the team would absolutely get under 2nd apron

b) Rumors when the offseason began were that Jrue and KP would be traded to get the team under the 2nd apron..and that Hauser might get traded too. But the 2 guys who were definitely gonna get moved were Jrue and KP. Brad said in a presser that he even told Jrue and KP that there's a good chance they would get traded to give them a heads up, so they weren't blindsided

c) The first move we made this offseason was trading Jrue

Therefore, Tatum's injury did not really have anything to do with us trading Jrue. He was traded because of the 2nd apron. Brad even said that in a presser - Jrue and KP were traded because of the 2nd apron and the team building penalties that come with it.

[Curmudgeon]

Enough talk about water over the dam. The player I want Stevens to target in the next month is Kenneth Lofton, Jr. He's fat and plays below the rim, but he can really play. For starters I hope he's coming to camp.

[fallguy]

Yea I hear that, but somebody screwed up along the way. If you pay two firsts and two players to acquire a borderline HOF level player, and you sign him to a 4 yr extension, and win a title(!) showing his worth. But that 15 months after inking the extension, you need to trade him, why is merely getting off the deal for an expiring a win? It's Jrue Holiday, you paid a lot to get him, and two years later, it's winning to just get off the money?

Either you paid him way too much or you overcooked your books and lost your leverage. Ideally, on a fair deal, in a fair transaction, Jrue is worth some value

It was a bad contract for sure. And a fairly obviously bad one when it was signed.

It was not a bad trade or a bad contract. The two guys we traded for him have played a combined 89 games over 2 seasons while taking up more cap space than Jrue. Of course the last two years of the contract were always risky but that was the price of opening a 2-3 yr championship window.

redslastlaugh said it already but he's right. Bad over-market contract. Most of us went along with it even knowing that and I'm fine with it. But empirically it was too many years and dollars.

[redslastlaugh]

The player want Stevens to target in the next month is Kenneth Lofton, Jr. He's fat and plays below the rim

lol, a ringing endorsement ... you make him sound like Chris Farley as a Chippendale's dancer, lol

In the playoffs the year KG was out (2009), Big Baby Davis averaged like 15/9 in the playoffs. Kenny Lofton could be the modern Big Baby, and Id honestly rather have Lofton than brokedown Xavier Tillman on one leg or another name connected to the Celts all summer, Ben Simmons ...

[Curmudgeon]

Lofton is a better player than Big Baby. Lofton can put it on the floor, pass it and score in ways that never occurred to Davis.

[brackdan70]

Lofton is a better player than Big Baby. Lofton can put it on the floor, pass it and score in ways that never occurred to Davis.

I wouldn’t mind giving Lofton a shot. I agree there is potential there greater than Big Baby, but I don’t know that it will be ever realized.
Why has t he signed anywhere yet?

[Curmudgeon]

Lofton is a better player than Big Baby. Lofton can put it on the floor, pass it and score in ways that never occurred to Davis.

I wouldn’t mind giving Lofton a shot. I agree there is potential there greater than Big Baby, but I don’t know that it will be ever realized.
Why has t he signed anywhere yet?

I don't know. Maybe he's a jerk in the locker room. But he was the best player in China last year at age 22.

[Bad-Thoma]

It's really difficult to get value for your players when everyone knows you have to sell.

The idea that what we acquired Jrue for Rob Williams (healthy at time), Brogdon (disgruntled but coming off 6MOY), a GSW pick in 2024 that became a late lottery pick, & a 2029 unprotected Celtics first, and we have traded him straight up for Simons who we don't want and deleting him will cost another first or a couple of seconds - > This is not great business, not at all.

Brad really got screwed that Wyc authorized 7-8 extensions way into the tax and then turned around immediately to hang a FOR SALE sign.

This is nothing against Jrue who was great in his two years, but when we moved off late 30's Paul and KG we got tons of value, and this time we havent even netted a single asset, and we just keep adding sweeteners at basically every step down

Brad Stevens made the Simons trade mainly just to get off of Jrue Holiday's $104 million. Still a great deal, Stevens was able to off-load Jrue's money.

Yea I hear that, but somebody screwed up along the way. If you pay two firsts and two players to acquire a borderline HOF level player, and you sign him to a 4 yr extension, and win a title(!) showing his worth. But that 15 months after inking the extension, you need to trade him, why is merely getting off the deal for an expiring a win? It's Jrue Holiday, you paid a lot to get him, and two years later, it's winning to just get off the money?

Either you paid him way too much or you overcooked your books and lost your leverage. Ideally, on a fair deal, in a fair transaction, Jrue is worth some value

They went all in to win a title and it worked. I'm not sure how that's bad business. If Tatum didn't get hurt the window would still be open for that group though less likely than last year IMO. I think Brad has killed it honestly.

[Curmudgeon]

Tatum's achilles killed it. Plus Porzingis' lack of availability and Horford's age.

[GreenBlooded]

This article was like 2 months before Tatum's injury:

https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Articles/2025/03/24/celtics-grousbeck-no-nba-team-will-stay-in-second-apron-more-than-two-years/

What's your point? If the Celtics didn't make the trade and kept Jrue they'd still be under the second apron rn.

Point is:

a) Wyc said 2 months before Tatum injury that the team would absolutely get under 2nd apron

b) Rumors when the offseason began were that Jrue and KP would be traded to get the team under the 2nd apron..and that Hauser might get traded too. But the 2 guys who were definitely gonna get moved were Jrue and KP. Brad said in a presser that he even told Jrue and KP that there's a good chance they would get traded to give them a heads up, so they weren't blindsided

c) The first move we made this offseason was trading Jrue

Therefore, Tatum's injury did not really have anything to do with us trading Jrue. He was traded because of the 2nd apron. Brad even said that in a presser - Jrue and KP were traded because of the 2nd apron and the team building penalties that come with it.

But the Celtics didn't need to trade Jrue to get under the second apron and would not have if Tatum doesn't get hurt. And Al would have been back too.

[Fierce1]

What's your point? If the Celtics didn't make the trade and kept Jrue they'd still be under the second apron rn.

Point is:

a) Wyc said 2 months before Tatum injury that the team would absolutely get under 2nd apron

b) Rumors when the offseason began were that Jrue and KP would be traded to get the team under the 2nd apron..and that Hauser might get traded too. But the 2 guys who were definitely gonna get moved were Jrue and KP. Brad said in a presser that he even told Jrue and KP that there's a good chance they would get traded to give them a heads up, so they weren't blindsided

c) The first move we made this offseason was trading Jrue

Therefore, Tatum's injury did not really have anything to do with us trading Jrue. He was traded because of the 2nd apron. Brad even said that in a presser - Jrue and KP were traded because of the 2nd apron and the team building penalties that come with it.

But the Celtics didn't need to trade Jrue to get under the second apron and would not have if Tatum doesn't get hurt. And Al would have been back too.

Not true.

Even before the playoffs started, reports were already coming out that there was no way the Cs would be paying a 500m payroll.

You can check because there are a number of articles, before playoffs, about the Cs going to cut payroll after the season.

[The_Ghost_of_JB]

Point is:

a) Wyc said 2 months before Tatum injury that the team would absolutely get under 2nd apron

b) Rumors when the offseason began were that Jrue and KP would be traded to get the team under the 2nd apron..and that Hauser might get traded too. But the 2 guys who were definitely gonna get moved were Jrue and KP. Brad said in a presser that he even told Jrue and KP that there's a good chance they would get traded to give them a heads up, so they weren't blindsided

c) The first move we made this offseason was trading Jrue

Therefore, Tatum's injury did not really have anything to do with us trading Jrue. He was traded because of the 2nd apron. Brad even said that in a presser - Jrue and KP were traded because of the 2nd apron and the team building penalties that come with it.

But the Celtics didn't need to trade Jrue to get under the second apron and would not have if Tatum doesn't get hurt. And Al would have been back too.

Not true.

Even before the playoffs started, reports were already coming out that there was no way the Cs would be paying a 500m payroll.

You can check because there are a number of articles, before playoffs, about the Cs going to cut payroll after the season.

I agree with this. I think MAYBE the only way they kept this team intact for one more season is if they won the championship but who knows. Holiday was started to become cooked, and KP is never healthy.

[Celts17Pride]

Steve Bulpett rumor on Anfernee Simons:

Anfernee Simons’ Future With Celtics Remains Uncertain: NBA Executives

There’s a very good reason Anfernee Simons Celtic jerseys aren’t exactly a hot item at the NBA Store.

Because he may never get to wear one.

In terms of trade possibilities, one general manager told Heavy on Celtics flatly, “They’re still very much willing to talk about Simons.”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/anfernee-simons-future-with-celtics-remains-uncertain-nba-executives/ar-AA1LqNgl?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=4b412d1236ec41a5a482d2383900e528&ei=103

[Hal14]

Steve Bulpett rumor on Anfernee Simons:

Anfernee Simons’ Future With Celtics Remains Uncertain: NBA Executives

There’s a very good reason Anfernee Simons Celtic jerseys aren’t exactly a hot item at the NBA Store.

Because he may never get to wear one.

In terms of trade possibilities, one general manager told Heavy on Celtics flatly, “They’re still very much willing to talk about Simons.”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/anfernee-simons-future-with-celtics-remains-uncertain-nba-executives/ar-AA1LqNgl?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=4b412d1236ec41a5a482d2383900e528&ei=103

That article also says:

A Trade Could Take Awhile
Be that as it may, another rival front office granted that Simons could be traded before the ink on this online story dries. But he talked up the possibility that a move could take a while.

“Anfernee Simons makes $27-plus million,” he said. “Who’s got room to put that in their cap? And he’s up after this year, so the Celtics aren’t going to want to take back anything that would load in more salary of less flexibility.

“I think, unless they are presented with some sweetheart situation, the most likely time for Simons to get moved — again, if he even does — would be at the trade deadline.

“I could see Boston being out of it and another team thinking they need a scorer like Simons to put them over the top. I could see another team that’s close wanting to add that kind of firepower down the stretch and into the playoffs. Even if it’s a rental, a team might go for him, because what we’re seeing now with the second apron and all that, if you win, it’s hard to keep a team with high-priced guys together. An expiring deal is so valuable.”

If Anfernee Simons Stays With the Celtics, a Front Office Source Says, ‘I Bet You He’s Their Leading Scorer’
After a brief discussion of how some of those changes might look as they transition from theory to real NBA life, the front office guy doubled down on Celtic Simons.

“I bet you he’s their leading scorer,” he said. “Even with Jaylen. He’s going to have the ball a lot, and that dude can really score. That offense is going to have to change to accommodate him, and, on the last year of his contract, he’s going to let it fly.

“As the kids say, he’s a bucket. He is. That dude is a bucket. He can really fill it up. And remember, he was averaging around 20 in the West. What do you think he’s going to do in the Eastern Conference, which is a LOT less competitive? How’s he not going to score and score big?”

[Celts17Pride]

Steve Bulpett rumor on Anfernee Simons:

Anfernee Simons’ Future With Celtics Remains Uncertain: NBA Executives

There’s a very good reason Anfernee Simons Celtic jerseys aren’t exactly a hot item at the NBA Store.

Because he may never get to wear one.

In terms of trade possibilities, one general manager told Heavy on Celtics flatly, “They’re still very much willing to talk about Simons.”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/anfernee-simons-future-with-celtics-remains-uncertain-nba-executives/ar-AA1LqNgl?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=4b412d1236ec41a5a482d2383900e528&ei=103

That article also says:

A Trade Could Take Awhile
Be that as it may, another rival front office granted that Simons could be traded before the ink on this online story dries. But he talked up the possibility that a move could take a while.

“Anfernee Simons makes $27-plus million,” he said. “Who’s got room to put that in their cap? And he’s up after this year, so the Celtics aren’t going to want to take back anything that would load in more salary of less flexibility.

“I think, unless they are presented with some sweetheart situation, the most likely time for Simons to get moved — again, if he even does — would be at the trade deadline.

“I could see Boston being out of it and another team thinking they need a scorer like Simons to put them over the top. I could see another team that’s close wanting to add that kind of firepower down the stretch and into the playoffs. Even if it’s a rental, a team might go for him, because what we’re seeing now with the second apron and all that, if you win, it’s hard to keep a team with high-priced guys together. An expiring deal is so valuable.”

If Anfernee Simons Stays With the Celtics, a Front Office Source Says, ‘I Bet You He’s Their Leading Scorer’
After a brief discussion of how some of those changes might look as they transition from theory to real NBA life, the front office guy doubled down on Celtic Simons.

“I bet you he’s their leading scorer,” he said. “Even with Jaylen. He’s going to have the ball a lot, and that dude can really score. That offense is going to have to change to accommodate him, and, on the last year of his contract, he’s going to let it fly.

“As the kids say, he’s a bucket. He is. That dude is a bucket. He can really fill it up. And remember, he was averaging around 20 in the West. What do you think he’s going to do in the Eastern Conference, which is a LOT less competitive? How’s he not going to score and score big?”

That's why I posted the link to the article. Can't post the whole thing.

[djFan71]

Yeah, there's just nothing new under the sun until other teams' trade restrictions start to lapse. We'd love to get off the money without spending assets to do it. If he stays, he's gonna score and look good. Same as day 0.