Celtics/Sac/Mavs

[brackdan70]

I like Brown, but fact is, he is overpaid. I thought so when he got the max deal, and even more so now.

If he’s so great, then why is this an “off year” for the Celtics?

I don’t necessarily think the OP is a great trade, but Celtics should consider trading Brown

Was lucky timing for Brown that he made an all NBA team just in time to sign that extension. If he didn’t, he would be making 7 million or so less per year.
Brown will be around the 10th highest paid player in the league for the life of his contract…maybe will move down the list the last year as the next two crops of max extensions get signed.
Just looking at the list of guys making over 50 million per year….with maybe one or two exceptions they are all overpaid.
That said Brown is still a top 30 guy and I don’t think you trade him unless you can make the team better by doing so.

[Gant]

If he’s so great, then why is this an “off year” for the Celtics?

Because Tatum, Horford, Porzingis, Holiday and Kornet are all gone at once. That's most of the starting lineup and the majority of the rotation.
side note: Horford started 42 out of 65 games.

Despite that, if their inexperienced centers play decently, this may end up being less of an off year than generally forecast.

[longfellow44]

I don't like Jaylen brown very much and I wouldn't be willing to do this as a kings fan. I think he is DeRozan with better defense. I understand most people value him more than that but I don't.

As far as the other trade in the thread of malik for simons, I wouldn't do that either. If the goal is getting off salary sooner, that has never really benefited the kings much so I would rather keep monk who I think is the better player of the two, although it is close.

[SNPA]

Boston should trade Brown even for cost-controlled role players of quality but this trade isn't it. Keegan Murray is a RFA and likely to ask for an overpaid extension based on draft pedigree. Keon Ellis I don't know about but he's 26 year old and 175 lb (!) combo guard who will be UFA. Gafford is a big with limited skills whose team was worse on defense with him on the floor 3 of 4 seasons in his career when he got more than spot minutes. He's got a big extension coming up. What's the upside? Boston needs to get either get good players or bad players and picks, not a bunch of mediocre players about to be paid or already overpaid.

Agree. If they decide to trade Brown, they will want some legit value coming back. Something that will help build around Tatum.
I also think they won’t do it until at least after the 26/27 season if ever.

Brackdan’s description is clear, he doesn’t know the Kings players. He doesn’t know what type of value is coming back.

Here’s the issue for Boston, in the apron era having a salary structure like they do makes that team a single point of failure. Waiting till 26/27 might make it too late to pivot. A Brown that’s looking at 30 and making over 60m for a couple more seasons is not going to be moveable. And if they could move him it will be for other terrible contracts. Basically, they run the risk of getting stuck without good optionality for the second half of Tatum’s prime. That’s the premise for the trade, to give Boston pieces that fit, will be in their prime, will be on apron era deals that can be moved one off or combined…to not be a single point of failure team. Boston lost a lot of depth too, they need to get some back but that’s going to be hard with three guys making 150m’ish.

[brackdan70]

Boston should trade Brown even for cost-controlled role players of quality but this trade isn't it. Keegan Murray is a RFA and likely to ask for an overpaid extension based on draft pedigree. Keon Ellis I don't know about but he's 26 year old and 175 lb (!) combo guard who will be UFA. Gafford is a big with limited skills whose team was worse on defense with him on the floor 3 of 4 seasons in his career when he got more than spot minutes. He's got a big extension coming up. What's the upside? Boston needs to get either get good players or bad players and picks, not a bunch of mediocre players about to be paid or already overpaid.

Agree. If they decide to trade Brown, they will want some legit value coming back. Something that will help build around Tatum.
I also think they won’t do it until at least after the 26/27 season if ever.

Brackdan’s description is clear, he doesn’t know the Kings players. He doesn’t know what type of value is coming back.

Here’s the issue for Boston, in the apron era having a salary structure like they do makes that team a single point of failure. Waiting till 26/27 might make it too late to pivot. A Brown that’s looking at 30 and making over 60m for a couple more seasons is not going to be moveable. And if they could move him it will be for other terrible contracts. Basically, they run the risk of getting stuck without good optionality for the second half of Tatum’s prime. That’s the premise for the trade, to give Boston pieces that fit, will be in their prime, will be on apron era deals that can be moved one off or combined…to not be a single point of failure team. Boston lost a lot of depth too, they need to get some back but that’s going to be hard with three guys making 150m’ish.

You don’t know what I don’t know .
These dudes you are trying to trade for Brown are solid NBA players but they are not core pieces to build around Tatum.
This proposed trade is DOA. Give it up or come up with something that works for the Celtics.

[SNPA]

Agree. If they decide to trade Brown, they will want some legit value coming back. Something that will help build around Tatum.
I also think they won’t do it until at least after the 26/27 season if ever.

Brackdan’s description is clear, he doesn’t know the Kings players. He doesn’t know what type of value is coming back.

Here’s the issue for Boston, in the apron era having a salary structure like they do makes that team a single point of failure. Waiting till 26/27 might make it too late to pivot. A Brown that’s looking at 30 and making over 60m for a couple more seasons is not going to be moveable. And if they could move him it will be for other terrible contracts. Basically, they run the risk of getting stuck without good optionality for the second half of Tatum’s prime. That’s the premise for the trade, to give Boston pieces that fit, will be in their prime, will be on apron era deals that can be moved one off or combined…to not be a single point of failure team. Boston lost a lot of depth too, they need to get some back but that’s going to be hard with three guys making 150m’ish.

You don’t know what I don’t know .
These dudes you are trying to trade for Brown are solid NBA players but they are not core pieces to build around Tatum.
This proposed trade is DOA. Give it up or come up with something that works for the Celtics.

I do know. You told us:

“Keon Ellis I don't know about…”

[Texas Chuck]

If he’s so great, then why is this an “off year” for the Celtics?

Because Tatum, Horford, Porzingis, Holiday and Kornet are all gone at once. That's most of the starting lineup and the majority of the rotation.
side note: Horford started 42 out of 65 games.

Despite that, if their inexperienced centers play decently, this may end up being less of an off year than generally forecast.

Not only that, but look at Draymond Green. Unquestionably a better player a few years ago than Brown is now, but without Steph, Draymond simply isn't the kind of player that carries a team. But pair him with Steph and a dynasty occurred. I don't think anyone thinks Brown is a franchise guy that you build a contender around, but he's absolutely proven that as part of a good team he's a valued piece of a championship level squad.

[djFan71]

Slight edit....

BOS: Gafford and Isaac Jones
SAC: Simons, Powell, 2026 2nd from BOS
DAL: Monk, 2026 2nd from BOS

SAC gets off Monk's extra years, can try to resign Simons for just above MLE, if desired.
DAL gets scoring
BOS gets a long term big for their rotation and gets within "pay someone to take Jones" of ducking the tax.

Kings are better off finding a different 3rd team to get a forward for Gafford instead of an even more exp guard

Kings can’t do that. It puts them in the tax.

Does adding the Bucks help? Simons to MIL, Kuz to SAC?
Extra year of salary for Kuz, but better positional fit. Closer to neutral money-wise for SAC, so it either avoids tax completely or gets them an easy move from avoiding it.

[djFan71]

Brackdan’s description is clear, he doesn’t know the Kings players. He doesn’t know what type of value is coming back.

Here’s the issue for Boston, in the apron era having a salary structure like they do makes that team a single point of failure. Waiting till 26/27 might make it too late to pivot. A Brown that’s looking at 30 and making over 60m for a couple more seasons is not going to be moveable. And if they could move him it will be for other terrible contracts. Basically, they run the risk of getting stuck without good optionality for the second half of Tatum’s prime. That’s the premise for the trade, to give Boston pieces that fit, will be in their prime, will be on apron era deals that can be moved one off or combined…to not be a single point of failure team. Boston lost a lot of depth too, they need to get some back but that’s going to be hard with three guys making 150m’ish.

You don’t know what I don’t know .
These dudes you are trying to trade for Brown are solid NBA players but they are not core pieces to build around Tatum.
This proposed trade is DOA. Give it up or come up with something that works for the Celtics.

I do know. You told us:

“Keon Ellis I don't know about…”

That wasn't him.

[SNPA]

Slight edit....

BOS: Gafford and Isaac Jones
SAC: Simons, Powell, 2026 2nd from BOS
DAL: Monk, 2026 2nd from BOS

SAC gets off Monk's extra years, can try to resign Simons for just above MLE, if desired.
DAL gets scoring
BOS gets a long term big for their rotation and gets within "pay someone to take Jones" of ducking the tax.

Kings are better off finding a different 3rd team to get a forward for Gafford instead of an even more exp guard

Kings can’t do that. It puts them in the tax.

Does adding the Bucks help? Simons to MIL, Kuz to SAC?
Extra year of salary for Kuz, but better positional fit. Closer to neutral money-wise for SAC, so it either avoids tax completely or gets them an easy move from avoiding it.

I don’t know. Someone would have to do the math. Sac has 3.3m before the tax and wants to add Russ on a vet min which only some counts/none counts against the cap? It gets tricky when there’s such little breathing room. I don’t see the new GM Perry being interested in Kuz and a longer deal anyways.

[SNPA]

You don’t know what I don’t know .
These dudes you are trying to trade for Brown are solid NBA players but they are not core pieces to build around Tatum.
This proposed trade is DOA. Give it up or come up with something that works for the Celtics.

I do know. You told us:

“Keon Ellis I don't know about…”

That wasn't him.

You’re right. My mistake.

It was BK_2020.

[brackdan70]

I do know. You told us:

“Keon Ellis I don't know about…”

That wasn't him.

You’re right. My mistake.

It was BK_2020.

Yeah I was about to ask where I said that.
Bottom line Celtics don’t consider this.

[BK_2020]

I do know. You told us:

“Keon Ellis I don't know about…”

That wasn't him.

You’re right. My mistake.

It was BK_2020.

Yeah and based on his stats both NBA and college, anthropometrics, and the fact that the Kings chose to pick up a one-year option rather than resign him to a long-term deal, I'm not convinced he carries a lot of value. He's a rail-thin 26 year old whose offensive repertoire appears to be taking a low-volume of assisted threes.

[brackdan70]

That wasn't him.

You’re right. My mistake.

It was BK_2020.

Yeah and based on his stats both NBA and college, anthropometrics, and the fact that the Kings chose to pick up a one-year option rather than resign him to a long-term deal, I'm not convinced he carries a lot of value. He's a rail-thin 26 year old whose offensive repertoire appears to be taking a low-volume of assisted threes.

Yeah. I like him a lot as a role player. I think he sticks in the league and has a career as a solid rotation guy. He is a UFA at the end of the coming season and will get paid much more than he is making ( assuming he plays well again this season)
Good role player, not a ton of trade value.

[longfellow44]

You’re right. My mistake.

It was BK_2020.

Yeah and based on his stats both NBA and college, anthropometrics, and the fact that the Kings chose to pick up a one-year option rather than resign him to a long-term deal, I'm not convinced he carries a lot of value. He's a rail-thin 26 year old whose offensive repertoire appears to be taking a low-volume of assisted threes.

Yeah. I like him a lot as a role player. I think he sticks in the league and has a career as a solid rotation guy. He is a UFA at the end of the coming season and will get paid much more than he is making ( assuming he plays well again this season)
Good role player, not a ton of trade value.

I'm pretty sure he will be extended in February, right now the kings have been trying to keep money open to make as many moves as they can. Obviously that isn't going well.

[SNPA]

You’re right. My mistake.

It was BK_2020.

Yeah and based on his stats both NBA and college, anthropometrics, and the fact that the Kings chose to pick up a one-year option rather than resign him to a long-term deal, I'm not convinced he carries a lot of value. He's a rail-thin 26 year old whose offensive repertoire appears to be taking a low-volume of assisted threes.

Yeah. I like him a lot as a role player. I think he sticks in the league and has a career as a solid rotation guy. He is a UFA at the end of the coming season and will get paid much more than he is making ( assuming he plays well again this season)
Good role player, not a ton of trade value.

Disagree on trade value. Keegan and Ellis are the two guys teams keep wanting in trade. GMs see these guys as valuable. They are both fantastic defenders.

[brackdan70]

Yeah and based on his stats both NBA and college, anthropometrics, and the fact that the Kings chose to pick up a one-year option rather than resign him to a long-term deal, I'm not convinced he carries a lot of value. He's a rail-thin 26 year old whose offensive repertoire appears to be taking a low-volume of assisted threes.

Yeah. I like him a lot as a role player. I think he sticks in the league and has a career as a solid rotation guy. He is a UFA at the end of the coming season and will get paid much more than he is making ( assuming he plays well again this season)
Good role player, not a ton of trade value.

Disagree on trade value. Keegan and Ellis are the two guys teams keep wanting in trade. GMs see these guys as valuable. They are both fantastic defenders.

No one is offering up an all star, finals MVP in his prime though. They are likely offering 2nd round picks and salary.
What are the teams that keep wanting them and reported offers?
I know of Kuminga sign and trade and Sac unwilling to include those guys.
They have trade value yes….but not 1st round pick type value, and you are not getting a legit star by packaging together these types of players.

[Godaddycurse]

Call me crazy but i think a brown to sacramento trade should be based on Lavine + picks instead.

[Celts17Pride]

I like Brown, but fact is, he is overpaid. I thought so when he got the max deal, and even more so now.

If he’s so great, then why is this an “off year” for the Celtics?

Let's see, the Celtics lost Holiday, Porzingis, Horford, Kornet, Tatum. Jaylen Brown is good but he is not Superman.

[Celts17Pride]

Call me crazy but i think a brown to sacramento trade should be based on Lavine + picks instead.

Why would the Celtics want a guy that's older, not as good and has played 4 playoff games his entire career. They wouldn't.