OT : Eurobasket 2025

[Bob8]

On your list when it comes to ethnicity, basically only Serbs have their "own" players.

I was afraid that my question would trigger answers like this one. Please stick to the national team subject and don't make it an "pure ethnicity" stuff, it's pretty disappointing to bring this on the table...

I am liberal guy and I like things like glomalism. I all for multiculturalism, I am not proud that my country has no black people for example, all it means we just remnant of poor soviet system and no one ever wanted to migrate to our poverty country. Like my x colleague he is MAGA dude and he likes Serbia, cause ''they do not have black dudes''', and when he watches France, he calls them ''Africa''. he is one of those people. I really despise these views, but that said, we are not talking about that, we are talking about guys who get the passports weeks before tournament, just so they could help ''national team'', in quotes at that point.

I would imagine that Fiba and fans from Europe want to see players like Luka in Eurobasket. Slovenia has 0 bigs in last 10 years. It's a curse of 2 mio nation. There's really no need for Luka to come and play, if they can't even compete. In the name of the spirit of the game and without stars.

Well, somehow Luka is playing... Did Dirk needed naturalized guy to play for Germany? Teodosic said, if Serbia naturalizes random American, I am not playing. Players who all about national pride and national team do not need random foreigner for them to play the game, as with Teo, we see it can be opposite, and thats just asinine excuse. Yeah, Luka wont play if they dont get Nebo back right, he is just there to win medals not to actually help his country. If he wanted medals, he would have just joined Spain or Serbia as he could. If guy does not want to play for his country, a random foreigner who does not evne speak their langauge wont change his mind.

He for sure won't play in later rounds of the competition. It's that good for European basketball?

Btw. Omic is naturalized player too.

[Mavrelous]

Germans scored over 100 again. Very little traction in this thread so far, outside of now arguing about naturalized hired guns.

Pretty boring game day, all games have huge favourites.
This isn't football, Eurobasket should be smaller than this, 3 groups of 6 teams, or 4 groups of 4 teams is more than enough.
teams like Estonia, GBR, Sweden, Cyprus, Iceland, hell, even this year Slovenia and Finald, have no place in the tournament.

[The Number 9]

Yes, it's absurd. If it's not ok, don't allow it at all. If it's ok, allow it without a limit.

It's difficult to refuse all naturalized players.
Take Jamar Wilson who played a bit with Finland. He has lived and played there, met his wife and then became naturalized. Is it really wrong to see him play with them ?

I agree with you on the case of Lorenzo Brown, Jordan Loyd, ..., but it will probably be impossible to stop those situations without impacting case like Wilson in his time.
That's the reason behind the only one per nation and it's probably the best they can do.

[Archx]

Yet most teams that won gold has had naturalized player... Even USA did, but I mean their guy at least lived in the country for 10 years, but they still had one. Same with Spain, Slovenia etc. Out of top teams, only Serbs, Germans and French I believe do not have naturalized players. So if the idea is to help the little guy, it does not work as intended. Why should Spain have natuiralized player, so he would win them gold, yes. I do not get the whole idea behind it, lets hire a mercenary so if we win, our victory is tainted...

On your list when it comes to ethnicity, basically only Serbs have their "own" players.

I was afraid that my question would trigger answers like this one. Please stick to the national team subject and don't make it an "pure ethnicity" stuff, it's pretty disappointing to bring this on the table...

Why would it be disappointing? It's just a normal discussion. It sounds bad if you make it out to be bad and that wasn't my intention at all. Even in my country there's people of all sorts of backgrounds, why would that be such a bad thing to say?

[BadaBoom]

On your list when it comes to ethnicity, basically only Serbs have their "own" players.

I was afraid that my question would trigger answers like this one. Please stick to the national team subject and don't make it an "pure ethnicity" stuff, it's pretty disappointing to bring this on the table...

Why would it be disappointing? It's just a normal discussion. It sounds bad if you make it out to be bad and that wasn't my intention at all. Even in my country there's people of all sorts of backgrounds, why would that be such a bad thing to say?

Because being a citizen of a country has nothing to do with your skin color/ethnicity and the question here is about "non legit naturalization" for sport purpose and absolutely not about the demographics of European countries in 2025.

Then you come and say "yes but speaking of ethnicity, only Serbia is legit". Bringing ethnicity in the equation has big chances to lead to nauseous opinions and never ever was the topic of this side question.

[Jadoogar]

there's way too many bad teams in the tournament. every game is a blowout, it's not going to get interesting until the eliminations

[Archx]

I was afraid that my question would trigger answers like this one. Please stick to the national team subject and don't make it an "pure ethnicity" stuff, it's pretty disappointing to bring this on the table...

Why would it be disappointing? It's just a normal discussion. It sounds bad if you make it out to be bad and that wasn't my intention at all. Even in my country there's people of all sorts of backgrounds, why would that be such a bad thing to say?

Because being a citizen of a country has nothing to do with your skin color/ethnicity and the question here is about "non legit naturalization" for sport purpose and absolutely not about the demographics of European countries in 2025.

Then you come and say "yes but speaking of ethnicity, only Serbia is legit". Bringing ethnicity in the equation has big chances to lead to nauseous opinions and never ever was the topic of this side question.

I didn't say only Serbia is legit lol... The fact that you make it sound something that is not, is your problem not mine. It's an every day discussion in life and people also talked about this almost daily on these forums. Like i said, whatever you're trying to make it out to be, it's on you, not me.

[Bob8]

I was afraid that my question would trigger answers like this one. Please stick to the national team subject and don't make it an "pure ethnicity" stuff, it's pretty disappointing to bring this on the table...

Why would it be disappointing? It's just a normal discussion. It sounds bad if you make it out to be bad and that wasn't my intention at all. Even in my country there's people of all sorts of backgrounds, why would that be such a bad thing to say?

Because being a citizen of a country has nothing to do with your skin color/ethnicity and the question here is about "non legit naturalization" for sport purpose and absolutely not about the demographics of European countries in 2025.

Then you come and say "yes but speaking of ethnicity, only Serbia is legit". Bringing ethnicity in the equation has big chances to lead to nauseous opinions and never ever was the topic of this side question.

And people are becoming citizens of a country for very different reasons and with very different circumstances. If I'm not mistaken only citizens can play Eurobasket. So what's the problem? If we're not looking at heritage then we shouldn't look at how players got their citizenship. They're all citizens.

[BadaBoom]

Why would it be disappointing? It's just a normal discussion. It sounds bad if you make it out to be bad and that wasn't my intention at all. Even in my country there's people of all sorts of backgrounds, why would that be such a bad thing to say?

Because being a citizen of a country has nothing to do with your skin color/ethnicity and the question here is about "non legit naturalization" for sport purpose and absolutely not about the demographics of European countries in 2025.

Then you come and say "yes but speaking of ethnicity, only Serbia is legit". Bringing ethnicity in the equation has big chances to lead to nauseous opinions and never ever was the topic of this side question.

And people are becoming citizens of a country for very different reasons and with very different circumstances. If I'm not mistaken only citizens can play Eurobasket. So what's the problem? If we're not looking at heritage then we shouldn't look at how players got their citizenship. They're all citizens.

My remark is specifically about "naturalization 100% for National team reason" which does not include players who got citizenship in their childhood or the stuff implied by you and Archx.

I think people bringing ethnicity in this question knows what they are doing, even if they candidly say "you are making it sound wrong, not me * wink * * wink * " but that's another story.
If you are truly candid about it, then my bad, it's just that the two matters are really separate things to me.

I'll stop there to not derail the main purpose of this thread further.

[schnakenpopanz]

The main reason for that is that there would be 3 americans at every below avg euorpean nation.

[-Luke-]

Yes, it's absurd. If it's not ok, don't allow it at all. If it's ok, allow it without a limit.

It's difficult to refuse all naturalized players.
Take Jamar Wilson who played a bit with Finland. He has lived and played there, met his wife and then became naturalized. Is it really wrong to see him play with them ?

I agree with you on the case of Lorenzo Brown, Jordan Loyd, ..., but it will probably be impossible to stop those situations without impacting case like Wilson in his time.
That's the reason behind the only one per nation and it's probably the best they can do.

It's a good point because it seems like FIBA isn't really the problem, certain countries are. If you or I moved to Spain to live and work there, we would likely have to wait five to ten years to get Spanish citizenship, after language tests etc. Lorenzo Brown or Joel Embiid on the other hand are simply given a Spanish or French passport like it's a bottle of coke, even though they have nothing to do with the country.

So FIBA had to find a solution for a problem they aren't responsible for. Of course they can't refuse a player to play for a country when he goes through a normal naturalization process.

Maybe a middle ground would be if FIBA bans a naturalized player to play for his new country for one year (unless it's youth national team). That would at least prevent something like Brown/Spain. I don't know anything about college basketball, but as far as I know a player had to sit out a year if he changed colleges (I don't think that's still the case, no?)

[Bob8]

Because being a citizen of a country has nothing to do with your skin color/ethnicity and the question here is about "non legit naturalization" for sport purpose and absolutely not about the demographics of European countries in 2025.

Then you come and say "yes but speaking of ethnicity, only Serbia is legit". Bringing ethnicity in the equation has big chances to lead to nauseous opinions and never ever was the topic of this side question.

And people are becoming citizens of a country for very different reasons and with very different circumstances. If I'm not mistaken only citizens can play Eurobasket. So what's the problem? If we're not looking at heritage then we shouldn't look at how players got their citizenship. They're all citizens.

My remark is specifically about "naturalization 100% for National team reason" which does not include players who got citizenship in their childhood or the stuff implied by you and Archx.

I think people bringing ethnicity in this question knows what they are doing, even if they candidly say "you are making it sound wrong, not me * wink * * wink * " but that's another story.
I'll stop there to not derail the main purpose of this thread further.

Country can give you a citizenship for whatever reason. Some are giving them more freely than others and Fiba made the rule only 1 such player can play. They could allow everyone to play.

What you and some others don't understand is that height is obstacle to play competitive basketball. Pool of players high enough is just too small for smaller nations. If you want to have competitive tournament and watch your biggest stars as long as possible you should give them something to compete with. It's still just 1 player and vast majority of them not exactly superstars.

I really doubt that France with far the most players with African and Caribbean heritage or Serbia with far the best basketball school should be afraid of a single naturalised player. When Jokic retires from NT, healthy France will be unbeatable anyway and I doubt very much that will do anything good to European basketball.

[Mirotic12]

I believe it's pretty clear why they allow naturalised players, they want to give small or not basketball countries a little better chances. Not many countries are like Lithuania, where only 1 sport exists and all talent goes there. In the long term no small country will compete with multi cultural big nations as France, difference in talent pool is just too big, they do naturalisation just a lot sooner and on much bigger scale.

Yet most teams that won gold has had naturalized player... Even USA did, but I mean their guy at least lived in the country for 10 years, but they still had one. Same with Spain, Slovenia etc. Out of top teams, only Serbs, Germans and French I believe do not have naturalized players. So if the idea is to help the little guy, it does not work as intended. Why should Spain have natuiralized player, so he would win them gold, yes. I do not get the whole idea behind it, lets hire a mercenary so if we win, our victory is tainted...

Basketball is not the only sport in Lithuania, we are better at strongmen than Basketball anyway, I am just sayint, it is very popular And we are not even good anymore, so is Latvia, but somehow we mange without Lorenzo Brown or even D'angelo Russell who wants to play for Lithuanian publicly cause his wife is Lithuanian. Country still didn't even consider it cause he has nothing to do with Lithuania beside the fact he sleeps with one.

Germany has Nick Weiler-Babb, but not in this tournament and also not in 2023. He may be one of the guys where it's accepted because he has a German grandmother (I think) and played in Germany for years.

FIBA counts Dorsey as naturalized for Greece, but his mother is Greek and he played on the youth teams. So it's really bs that he's counted as naturalized.

[Jellybeans]

Holy hell nightmare is over and we beat esti brothers by 2 points

[UcanUwill]

Country can give you a citizenship for whatever reason. Some are giving them more freely than others and Fiba made the rule only 1 such player can play. They could allow everyone to play.

What you and some others don't understand is that height is obstacle to play competitive basketball. Pool of players high enough is just too small for smaller nations. If you want to have competitive tournament and watch your biggest stars as long as possible you should give them something to compete with. It's still just 1 player and vast majority of them not exactly superstars.

I really doubt that France with far the most players with African and Caribbean heritage or Serbia with far the best basketball school should be afraid of a single naturalised player. When Jokic retires from NT, healthy France will be unbeatable anyway and I doubt very much that will do anything good to European basketball.

Country can give out those citezenships and some shamelessly do, that is the point of whole discussion. We know they can, we not arguing that they can't. we argue that its pathetic. I think I would still support my team if they did this, what else can I do, but I for certain would be far less of a fan and would never defend the practice.

I do not know man, I have complete opposite idea of what is bad for European basketball, I think Americans dominating freaking Eurobasket is whats bad for European basketball, it is just sad.

[Ferulci]

On your list when it comes to ethnicity, basically only Serbs have their "own" players.

I was afraid that my question would trigger answers like this one. Please stick to the national team subject and don't make it an "pure ethnicity" stuff, it's pretty disappointing to bring this on the table...

Why would it be disappointing? It's just a normal discussion. It sounds bad if you make it out to be bad and that wasn't my intention at all. Even in my country there's people of all sorts of backgrounds, why would that be such a bad thing to say?

Please enlighten me on that matter, how French doesn't have their "own" players?

[Bob8]

Country can give you a citizenship for whatever reason. Some are giving them more freely than others and Fiba made the rule only 1 such player can play. They could allow everyone to play.

What you and some others don't understand is that height is obstacle to play competitive basketball. Pool of players high enough is just too small for smaller nations. If you want to have competitive tournament and watch your biggest stars as long as possible you should give them something to compete with. It's still just 1 player and vast majority of them not exactly superstars.

I really doubt that France with far the most players with African and Caribbean heritage or Serbia with far the best basketball school should be afraid of a single naturalised player. When Jokic retires from NT, healthy France will be unbeatable anyway and I doubt very much that will do anything good to European basketball.

Country can give out those citezenships and some shamelessly do, that is the point of whole discussion. We know they can, we not arguing that they can't. we argue that its pathetic. I think I would still support my team if they did this, what else can I do, but I for certain would be far less of a fan and would never defend the practice.

I do not know man, I have complete opposite idea of what is bad for European basketball, I think Americans dominating freaking Eurobasket is whats bad for European basketball, it is just sad.

Which Americans are dominating Eurobasket?

Problem for European basketball is nobody watching it. Making games even less competitive won't help that.

[Mirotic12]

Germany has Nick Weiler-Babb, but not in this tournament and also not in 2023. He may be one of the guys where it's accepted because he has a German grandmother (I think) and played in Germany for years.

I always assumed he was just German. But yeah, I understand those blood connections can be a stretch, but hey, your grandparents were german, fine, you pass. Some African teams like Nigeria is basically just that, entire team, and some fans really hate the double standards, but I understand that politics around the globe is different, and many people had to flee countries like Nigeria once, and if the children of those people want to play for Nigeria, thats perfectly fine.

I just really hate what teams like Poland, Croatia, Spain, Slovenia does, where their naturalized guy is just random Amaerican, have nothing to do with country at all. ANd it is not like, well he has a passport, many people have dual or triple citezenships, especially athletes who work around EU restrictions, IMO it does not make you valuable member of that national team when your passport is just business formality, yeah, legally it works, but it is not the spirit of the game.

I would imagine that Fiba and fans from Europe want to see players like Luka in Eurobasket. Slovenia has 0 bigs in last 10 years. It's a curse of 2 mio nation. There's really no need for Luka to come and play, if they can't even compete. In the name of the spirit of the game and without stars.

Teoman Alibegovic
Vinko Jelovac
Gregor F_u_c_k_a (although he chose to play for Italy)
Rasho Nesterovich
Matjaz Smodis
Primoz Brezec
Jurica Golemac
Erazem Lorbek
Gasper Vidmar

The point is, the population never seemed to stop them from having at least serviceable bigs before, and often they had very good ones, with several of them even being among the best in Europe (Alibegovic, Jelovac, Rasho, Lorbek, and even arguably the best in Europe (Smodis).

And although F_u_c_k_a didn't play for Slovenia, he was clearly the best big man in Europe in his time.

They had Rasho, Lorbek, and Smodis all in the same era.

So population doesn't explain the problem. And it's just so easy for them to naturalize all these bigs like they have been doing for so long now:

Mirza Begic
Alen Omic
Anthony Randolph
Mike Tobey
Jordan Morgan
Josh Nebo

They are getting totally ridiculous with it. It's just an open free agent center position for Slovenia's national team.

The fact that the last two EuroBasket championships were won by teams (Slovenia and Spain) that had free agents (Randolph and L. Brown) like pro clubs, to get those titles, is really a black mark on FIBA.

It shouldn't be allowed for national teams to buy gold medals, and it's happened in two straight EuroBasket tournaments.

[Mirotic12]

On your list when it comes to ethnicity, basically only Serbs have their "own" players.

I was afraid that my question would trigger answers like this one. Please stick to the national team subject and don't make it an "pure ethnicity" stuff, it's pretty disappointing to bring this on the table...

I am liberal guy and I like things like glomalism. I all for multiculturalism, I am not proud that my country has no black people for example, all it means we just remnant of poor soviet system and no one ever wanted to migrate to our poverty country. Like my x colleague he is MAGA dude and he likes Serbia, cause ''they do not have black dudes''', and when he watches France, he calls them ''Africa''. he is one of those people. I really despise these views, but that said, we are not talking about that, we are talking about guys who get the passports weeks before tournament, just so they could help ''national team'', in quotes at that point.

I would imagine that Fiba and fans from Europe want to see players like Luka in Eurobasket. Slovenia has 0 bigs in last 10 years. It's a curse of 2 mio nation. There's really no need for Luka to come and play, if they can't even compete. In the name of the spirit of the game and without stars.

Well, somehow Luka is playing... Did Dirk needed naturalized guy to play for Germany? Teodosic said, if Serbia naturalizes random American, I am not playing. Players who all about national pride and national team do not need random foreigner for them to play the game, as with Teo, we see it can be opposite, and thats just asinine excuse. Yeah, Luka wont play if they dont get Nebo back right, he is just there to win medals not to actually help his country. If he wanted medals, he would have just joined Spain or Serbia as he could. If guy does not want to play for his country, a random foreigner who does not evne speak their langauge wont change his mind.

Germany used several naturalized players in Dirk's playing era.

[UcanUwill]

Problem for European basketball is nobody watching it. Making games even less competitive won't help that.

I do not know how having random foreigners on teams just cause teams are not good enough according to you helps anything or is justifiable, it just breaks the spirit of entire thing. yeah, some countries are small and have no talent, tough sh*t, that does not mean it is ok to give random dude a passport, it is legal, but it does not mean it is not *****y. Some teams are stronger than others, thats just how it is and you should deal with it. Why do we even have tournaments with national teams then if teams are lead by bought mercenaries? We suck at Football, should they just give us prime Karim Benzema just cause we suck and it would be ''better'' if we were less bad, or better, just win the whole tournament lead by Karim Benzema playing for us, thats just even better., thats what national team competition is all about, Lorenzo Brown winning gold for Spain..

Which Americans are dominating Eurobasket

Jordan Loyd just won Eurobasket game less than 24 hours ago almost by himself, less than two weeks he was not Polish citizen and never would have been otherwise. Lorenzo Brown lead Spain to gold last time around,