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Would you offer Ayo an extension?

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Re: Would you offer Ayo an extension? 

Post#41 » by nomorezorro » Mon Sep 1, 2025 5:19 pm

there is basically no reason to think ayo would even be an MLE-level player if he was on the open market

i would probably extend him at $8m AAV since that feels like the point you're at "probably a good enough value to ignore the roster logjam," but i honestly don't even think he's guaranteed to make that much in free agency
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Re: Would you offer Ayo an extension? 

Post#42 » by League Circles » Mon Sep 1, 2025 5:24 pm

rosenthall wrote:
I think our rotation is:

White / Tre / Ayo
Okoro / Huerter
Giddey / Pat
Matas / Pat
Vuc / Collins

If he's healthy, pretty sure he'll still see the court for ~20 MPG, because Billy. So I don't think his value tanks next year. But it's hard to see him breaking out with our roster and a likely 1/4 season warmup necessary to get his offensive touch back.


How is a guy that you list as the 3rd string at the 1 position going to get even 5 mpg, let alone 20.

Only Ayo sees the rotation when everyone is healthy IMO is if Williams and Okoro are both highly disappointing.
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Re: Would you offer Ayo an extension? 

Post#43 » by dougthonus » Mon Sep 1, 2025 5:31 pm

Stratmaster wrote:So your number for Giddey is a begrudging 25 mil. But you are willing to give Ayo 22 mil?


No, I didn't state it very clearly. I mean Ayo's max is 22M, and I would like to extend him. I'm not sure what the fair market on him is.
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Re: Would you offer Ayo an extension? 

Post#44 » by dougthonus » Mon Sep 1, 2025 5:36 pm

Stratmaster wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
samwana wrote:If I offer Giddey 4/80 it would be very strange offering Ayo 4/88. I'm not even sure I would offer him the MLE. 4/40 sounds like a very rich offer for what he brings to the table.


FWIW, I'm not suggesting you have to go 4/88, just that's the max he could get offered, and it's in the range he'd take (ie, there is some deal here that we could work out). It's worth noting that at the end of the 23/24 season, people were looking at Ayo like he might command 30M a year.


I don't recall anyone putting him in the 30M range. But I could be mistaken.


Was speculation, but he shot 40% on pretty good volume from 3 for the year, and was a two way player, people thought he was just trending way upwards.

Thinking it through more though, given his age, regression in shooting, lack of meaningful improvements in other areas, he's a sub MLE guy now. If he had a great season, I think he could move his value up, but that's going to be pretty hard with the roster we have.
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Re: Would you offer Ayo an extension? 

Post#45 » by dougthonus » Mon Sep 1, 2025 5:37 pm

League Circles wrote:I would have been sorta OK with an Ayo extension if we hadn't signed Jones, hadn't traded for Okoro, and/or did something with Huerter or Williams, but those guys are providing us all the mediocrity we could ever hope for on the perimeter, so Ayo needs to be the odd man out, if even only due to timing and sequencing.


I do agree that having Okoro and Jones next year is a real crimp in doing anything with Ayo. I like Ayo more than the other two, but you really don't need 3 guys at this level on 8M type contracts.
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Re: Would you offer Ayo an extension? 

Post#46 » by pipfan » Mon Sep 1, 2025 5:44 pm

Best I'd do is 4 years, $50 million (and Ayo's my favorite current player)

I just don't trust his offense, but I like him on the team. If he wouldn't take that, I'd wait
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Re: Would you offer Ayo an extension? 

Post#47 » by Rose2Boozer » Mon Sep 1, 2025 5:53 pm

I would offer Ayo the same 4/80 they're trying to get Giddey to sign. I wouldn't be against 4/88, but it wouldn't be my first offer. It's a solid deal for a multi-positioned, sixth man home grown veteran.
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Re: Would you offer Ayo an extension? 

Post#48 » by Chi town » Mon Sep 1, 2025 6:13 pm

Rose2Boozer wrote:I would offer Ayo the same 4/80 they're trying to get Giddey to sign. I wouldn't be against 4/88, but it wouldn't be my first offer. It's a solid deal for a multi-positioned, sixth man home grown veteran.


22M per is a big overpay for your 6th man unless you are a piece away and his name is Caruso.

Caruso will cost OKC Hart too.
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Re: Would you offer Ayo an extension? 

Post#49 » by CROBulls » Mon Sep 1, 2025 6:48 pm

Chi town wrote:
CROBulls wrote:Yes, you offer extension. For what his value is. Nothing else nothing more. Either you lock him on 5 year cheap deal, or just find replacement in FA. We also have enough guards where we dont need to go FA.


You think a resigned Ayo on a good number will bring Coby back too?

Coby is clearly the better player and will be paid accordingly but this summer has shown scoring guards that don’t defend are being greatly devalued.

I do think Ayo could be crazy good in this pace offense with Giddey.

Resigned Ayo on good number is value in new CBA over overpaying Coby. There is no incentive for owners to bet on players improving under new CBA give you can easily get stuck with contract not movable for forseable future. In past you could get rid of those contracts, now not much.
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Re: Would you offer Ayo an extension? 

Post#50 » by League Circles » Mon Sep 1, 2025 7:00 pm

Actually I would offer Ayo a long term deal. 5 years, $20 million. That's total, not aav lol. Not joking.
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Re: Would you offer Ayo an extension? 

Post#51 » by Hangtime84 » Mon Sep 1, 2025 7:18 pm

League Circles wrote:I truly do like Ayo, but he's like the Chris Duhon of our team


When the Bulls played at one of the slowest paces in the league, Ayo was among the leaders in fast break points. That change of pace is exactly his value. I could see him as a Bulls lifer in a TJ McConnell type role, though Trae Jones fits a similar niche.

Because he chose a two year rookie deal instead of four, I would suspect he wanted to reach a bigger payday sooner. After this year’s injury, he might prioritize a longer, security focused contract over chasing higher contract values.
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Re: Would you offer Ayo an extension? 

Post#52 » by rosenthall » Mon Sep 1, 2025 7:44 pm

League Circles wrote:
rosenthall wrote:
I think our rotation is:

White / Tre / Ayo
Okoro / Huerter
Giddey / Pat
Matas / Pat
Vuc / Collins

If he's healthy, pretty sure he'll still see the court for ~20 MPG, because Billy. So I don't think his value tanks next year. But it's hard to see him breaking out with our roster and a likely 1/4 season warmup necessary to get his offensive touch back.


How is a guy that you list as the 3rd string at the 1 position going to get even 5 mpg, let alone 20.

Only Ayo sees the rotation when everyone is healthy IMO is if Williams and Okoro are both highly disappointing.


I shoe-horned him there for simplicity, but his role is likely expanded beyond that. On defense Billy has him play 1-3 pretty fluidly, and sometimes even playing the 4 as well. He usually takes the toughest backcourt assignment when playing. On offense he's nominally a 1, but in reality he's more of a combo guard who plays off of whoever the main on ball guy is. So I wouldn't read too much into him being put there. I think in reality he shares backup spots 1-3 most nights.

I also think he's objectively better than Pat, and maybe Okoro, but I haven't seen him as much so I can't say. End of the day there's not a whole lot of separation in terms of quality when it comes to Okoro, Pat, Jones and Huerter, IMO. They all give you something a little different, all fit into lineups pretty easily, and all can be more valuable than another one on any given night.
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Re: Would you offer Ayo an extension? 

Post#53 » by Rose2Boozer » Mon Sep 1, 2025 7:48 pm

Chi town wrote:
Rose2Boozer wrote:I would offer Ayo the same 4/80 they're trying to get Giddey to sign. I wouldn't be against 4/88, but it wouldn't be my first offer. It's a solid deal for a multi-positioned, sixth man home grown veteran.


22M per is a big overpay for your 6th man unless you are a piece away and his name is Caruso.

Caruso will cost OKC Hart too.


Ayo will more than likely play starters minutes. I don't believe Okoro or Jones will get more minutes if all three are healthy. Personally, I think AK should've let Jones walk, and let Terry play those cleanup minutes.
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Re: Would you offer Ayo an extension? 

Post#54 » by MGB8 » Mon Sep 1, 2025 8:15 pm

rosenthall wrote:
League Circles wrote:
rosenthall wrote:
I think our rotation is:

White / Tre / Ayo
Okoro / Huerter
Giddey / Pat
Matas / Pat
Vuc / Collins

If he's healthy, pretty sure he'll still see the court for ~20 MPG, because Billy. So I don't think his value tanks next year. But it's hard to see him breaking out with our roster and a likely 1/4 season warmup necessary to get his offensive touch back.


How is a guy that you list as the 3rd string at the 1 position going to get even 5 mpg, let alone 20.

Only Ayo sees the rotation when everyone is healthy IMO is if Williams and Okoro are both highly disappointing.


I shoe-horned him there for simplicity, but his role is likely expanded beyond that. On defense Billy has him play 1-3 pretty fluidly, and sometimes even playing the 4 as well. He usually takes the toughest backcourt assignment when playing. On offense he's nominally a 1, but in reality he's more of a combo guard who plays off of whoever the main on ball guy is. So I wouldn't read too much into him being put there. I think in reality he shares backup spots 1-3 most nights.

I also think he's objectively better than Pat, and maybe Okoro, but I haven't seen him as much so I can't say. End of the day there's not a whole lot of separation in terms of quality when it comes to Okoro, Pat, Jones and Huerter, IMO. They all give you something a little different, all fit into lineups pretty easily, and all can be more valuable than another one on any given night.


I think it will / should be more like:

1: Coby (30), T.Jones (18)
2: Okoro (28); Ayo (20)
3: Giddey (32); Huerter (16)
4: Mats (30); Noa/Pat (18)
5: Collins (24); Vuc/Smith (24)

Sadly, Vuc will likely start. I do think Noa at some point starts getting limited “development” minutes consistently. Giddey may well get time at the 4 with Huerter at the 3 and Pat crowded out, too.
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Re: Would you offer Ayo an extension? 

Post#55 » by SalmonsSuperfan » Mon Sep 1, 2025 8:22 pm

Hangtime84 wrote:
League Circles wrote:I truly do like Ayo, but he's like the Chris Duhon of our team


When the Bulls played at one of the slowest paces in the league, Ayo was among the leaders in fast break points. That change of pace is exactly his value. I could see him as a Bulls lifer in a TJ McConnell type role, though Trae Jones fits a similar niche.

Because he chose a two year rookie deal instead of four, I would suspect he wanted to reach a bigger payday sooner. After this year’s injury, he might prioritize a longer, security focused contract over chasing higher contract values.

Forgot about that. Seem to recall we were roasting the team signing Ayo for just two years and Marco for 3. Maybe in hindsight.
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Re: Would you offer Ayo an extension? 

Post#56 » by Chi town » Mon Sep 1, 2025 8:33 pm

MGB8 wrote:
rosenthall wrote:
League Circles wrote:
How is a guy that you list as the 3rd string at the 1 position going to get even 5 mpg, let alone 20.

Only Ayo sees the rotation when everyone is healthy IMO is if Williams and Okoro are both highly disappointing.


I shoe-horned him there for simplicity, but his role is likely expanded beyond that. On defense Billy has him play 1-3 pretty fluidly, and sometimes even playing the 4 as well. He usually takes the toughest backcourt assignment when playing. On offense he's nominally a 1, but in reality he's more of a combo guard who plays off of whoever the main on ball guy is. So I wouldn't read too much into him being put there. I think in reality he shares backup spots 1-3 most nights.

I also think he's objectively better than Pat, and maybe Okoro, but I haven't seen him as much so I can't say. End of the day there's not a whole lot of separation in terms of quality when it comes to Okoro, Pat, Jones and Huerter, IMO. They all give you something a little different, all fit into lineups pretty easily, and all can be more valuable than another one on any given night.


I think it will / should be more like:

1: Coby (30), T.Jones (18)
2: Okoro (28); Ayo (20)
3: Giddey (32); Huerter (16)
4: Mats (30); Noa/Pat (18)
5: Collins (24); Vuc/Smith (24)

Sadly, Vuc will likely start. I do think Noa at some point starts getting limited “development” minutes consistently. Giddey may well get time at the 4 with Huerter at the 3 and Pat crowded out, too.


Agree on the min distribution but I think Okoro will get more like 20mpg and those 8 mins will be scattered around to guy who is playing best of Huerter Pat Ayo. Eventually Noa will get those 8 mins like Buz did but I think he will start out of the rotation to get him in the G League and give Pat some runway to play well and get traded. Think Noa gets develop mins after 25 games and rotation mins after the Trade Deadline.
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Re: Would you offer Ayo an extension? 

Post#57 » by dougthonus » Mon Sep 1, 2025 8:34 pm

Hangtime84 wrote:
League Circles wrote:I truly do like Ayo, but he's like the Chris Duhon of our team


When the Bulls played at one of the slowest paces in the league, Ayo was among the leaders in fast break points. That change of pace is exactly his value. I could see him as a Bulls lifer in a TJ McConnell type role, though Trae Jones fits a similar niche.

Because he chose a two year rookie deal instead of four, I would suspect he wanted to reach a bigger payday sooner. After this year’s injury, he might prioritize a longer, security focused contract over chasing higher contract values.


Career earnings of ~23.5M plus whatever endorsements he may have gotten which likely aren't all that much in total given his caliber as a player. Hard to say how that will influence his decision making.
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Re: Would you offer Ayo an extension? 

Post#58 » by sco » Mon Sep 1, 2025 8:48 pm

Rose2Boozer wrote:
Chi town wrote:
Rose2Boozer wrote:I would offer Ayo the same 4/80 they're trying to get Giddey to sign. I wouldn't be against 4/88, but it wouldn't be my first offer. It's a solid deal for a multi-positioned, sixth man home grown veteran.


22M per is a big overpay for your 6th man unless you are a piece away and his name is Caruso.

Caruso will cost OKC Hart too.


Ayo will more than likely play starters minutes. I don't believe Okoro or Jones will get more minutes if all three are healthy. Personally, I think AK should've let Jones walk, and let Terry play those cleanup minutes.

Glad you said this. There are 144 minutes at the 1-3 positions. For purposes of this argument, let's say Giddey and White account for 64. The remaining 80 minutes will likely be split between: Okoro, Jones, Huerter, Ayo and Pwill (who will also be battling Noa for back-up 4 minutes).

In terms of key attributes, here is how I rank these guys (excluding Terry because I just think he is behind all of these guys, same with Carter)

Scoring: Huerter, Jones (who was an offensive surprise last season), Ayo, Okoro, Pwill
3pt Shooting: Huerter, PWill, tie between Okoro, Ayo (due to Ayo's bad season), Jones
Playmaking: Jones, Ayo, Huerter, Okoro, Pwill
Defense: tie between Okoro and Jones, Pwill, tie between Huerter and Ayo

Overall I suggest that Okoro will get the nod as the 3rd starter due (I'm guessing 26 mpg, but could be anywhere from 22 to 30) to his defense and that we just traded for him. Jones and Huerter will be the primary back-ups for the the PG/SG roles and could also take some of the minutes from what I'm calling the SF position (although in Jones' case, it may just mean that Giddey is still on the floor at the 3) and I see both guys getting 16-20mpg. I think Pwill and Ayo battle for the 3rd back-up spot with 14-18 mpg at stake.
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Re: Would you offer Ayo an extension? 

Post#59 » by Clint Eastwood » Mon Sep 1, 2025 9:33 pm

I think you all have not been thinking in terms of current salary cap numbers. Ayo at a MLE or slighly above would be a bargain. I also think that anyone that thinks Ayo will not average over 20 min a game and play in meaningful times are way off. He is a very good player with as good a work ethic as anyone in the league. He is only 26 and is going to be the type to add to his game every offseason. He is tremendously underrated around here. At 20 mil per year he will be a trade asset every year on our team.
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Re: Would you offer Ayo an extension? 

Post#60 » by League Circles » Mon Sep 1, 2025 9:37 pm

Rose2Boozer wrote:
Chi town wrote:
Rose2Boozer wrote:I would offer Ayo the same 4/80 they're trying to get Giddey to sign. I wouldn't be against 4/88, but it wouldn't be my first offer. It's a solid deal for a multi-positioned, sixth man home grown veteran.


22M per is a big overpay for your 6th man unless you are a piece away and his name is Caruso.

Caruso will cost OKC Hart too.


Ayo will more than likely play starters minutes. I don't believe Okoro or Jones will get more minutes if all three are healthy. Personally, I think AK should've let Jones walk, and let Terry play those cleanup minutes.

I mean..... the Bulls just signed Tre Jones to a 3 year deal, and re-signed clearly valued Lonzo Ball to trade him for Okoro, so for better or worse, I think it's pretty clear the Bulls value Jones and Okoro more than Ayo right now.
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