Comparing the 2025 Valkeries with prior Expansion

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Comparing the 2025 Valkeries with prior Expansion 

Post#1 » by Doctor MJ » Mon Sep 1, 2025 8:24 pm

So, it's no secret that the Valkeries have wildly exceeded expectations this season.

Image

With the season nearing it's end, I wanted to just have a thread specifically about this and point to some date.

So first, here are the prior 10 1st year expansion teams in WNBA history ranked by SRS:

1. 1998 Detroit Shock -0.27
2. 1999 Orlando Miracle -1.16
3. 1999 Minnesota Lynx -1.25
4. 2000 Portland Fire -3.49
5. 2000 Indiana Fever -3.66
6. 2000 Miami Sol -6.43
7. 2000 Seattle Storm -9.12
8. 2008 Atlanta Dream -9.62
9. 2006 Chicago Sky -9.83
10. 1998 Washington Mystics -13.63

I think it's worth considering this in basically 3 time periods:

1998 & 1999 - In this time periods, we're largely talking about established pros making their WNBA debut a year or two after it starts. Sandy Brondello (Shock) was a 29 year old Australian legend, while Taj McWilliams (Miracle) & Katie Smith (Lynx) were coming out of the ABL. This then to say that when expansion teams are built by gathering known top talents from other competitive leagues, this is a totally different type of team than one that's just getting the leftovers from their soon-to-be in-league competition.

Now, the first year Mystics were hideously bad, but it wasn't because they didn't land respected talent - Nikki McCray won the chip BL MVP in the rival ABL's first ('96-97) season - but the thing is, they won again the next year after she left the ABL to go to the WNBA which I kinda thing tells us that McCray got a bit overrated, and that her ABL teammates (including Smith) and coach (now WNBA legend Brian Agler) deserved more credit than they were initially given.

Then 2000 hits with not one or two expansion teams, but 4 expansion teams. This is honestly insane, and it's no wonder that they were less competitive than that early teams showed themselves capable of being, and seriously, these new franchises were probably the most set-up-to-fail with WNBA planning mistakes in the whole span. The fact that Seattle & Indiana managed to stick around and thrive warrants major applause both for management and for the fanbases that have long qualified as small markets (though Seattle arguably isn't anymore).

Finally we get to 2006 & 2008, and we see two extremely bad performances for the expansions. Not the worse we ever saw because of the Mystics, but in both cases we're talking worst-in-league bad, and being crafted much like how we saw the Valkeries craft in 2025.

I'd argue that these teams are the level we expected the Valkeries to perform.

What have the Valkeries done instead? An SRS of +1.55 with a few games to go. Seems all but clinched the first positive SRS we've seen from a first year expansion team in WNBA history. It's incredible!

It's also potentially cause for the whole basketball world to learn something, and most certainly for the WNBA.

The WNBA has, for a while now, had the narrative that the vets were so good compared to the rookies that even first round draft picks might not be worth a roster spot, and the fact that the only expansion teams of the past 20 years were so awful supported that assertion.

By contrast, an expansion team of immediately being above average without the aid of any players who were actually seen as top tier pros from other major leagues, or any super-hyped draft pick, suggests a very different story.

If a new team can take your castoffs and beat you with them, then that either means

a) you cast off the wrong players

b) you weren't using these players - and thus players generally - optimally

or

c) both.

The immediate thing I can't help but look at is 3P rate. If we look at the NBA, here are the top teams by 3PAr and what that rate is:

1. Boston .536
2. Golden State .469
3. Brooklyn .458
4. Cleveland .457
5. Chicago .457

And now for the W:

1. Golden State .463
2. Atlanta .418
3. New York .414
4. Phoenix .399
5. Los Angeles .385

So what we continue to see is that the WNBA isn't shooting 3's at the volume of the NBA... but Golden State's shooting about the same amount in both leagues, and that's leading to them being way ahead of their rivals on this front.

I'd suggest then that we're talking about a new WNBA franchise coming in looking to apply everything that was learned by their NBA counterparts, and in doing this effectively, they're gaining major advantages over what you'd get if you just picked from the leftovers of other teams without trying to leverage any new ideas.

Now to be clear, that doesn't mean that scouting isn't part of their advantage here, and something I'll note is that Veronica Burton has a higher raw +/- than anyone from an expansion team in the past (with a greater per game rate), and that this is happening with the Valkeries standing behind her early on as she struggled to git from the field.

The Valkeries seem to have latched on to Burton as the critical piece for their defense-led team, but then really pushed her to see if she could be an offensive star too, and she's increasingly looking like she can.

Super-impressive!

Now, as good as all this is, I do think there's a good chance that Valkerie FO/ownership will make some major missteps starting in the off-season. Lacob wants GS to be a place where free agents want to come, and now I think it will be, but if they really embrace this, it will mean messing with the chemistry of the team that's humming along so nicely, and it's so easy to end up with something that is now less than the sum of its parts rather than more.
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Re: Comparing the 2025 Valkeries with prior Expansion 

Post#2 » by cupcakesnake » Tue Sep 2, 2025 2:04 pm

Proper bit of work here, Doctor!
The Valkyries have been one of the fun part of the seasons. I remember trying to figure out what their rotation might be at the beginning of the season and just assuming this was going to be a joke level year.

Another thing about 3-point volume in the W: Scoring inside the 3-point line is WAY harder than it is in the NBA. The league average fg% this year is 43.9%, that's 49.6% on 2s. In the NBA it's 46.7% and 54.5% on 2s. It's a brutal, horizontal bloodbath as you approach the paint. So many of those buckets are hard fought. I don't particularly want to see the W become a 3-point chuck fest (I will survive and deal with it!), but I don't see how this trend won't continue and mathematically might even eclipse the NBA. A possible counter to this is: if it's harder to threaten the rim, it's harder to create open 3-point looks.

The WNBA has, for a while now, had the narrative that the vets were so good compared to the rookies that even first round draft picks might not be worth a roster spot, and the fact that the only expansion teams of the past 20 years were so awful supported that assertion.

By contrast, an expansion team of immediately being above average without the aid of any players who were actually seen as top tier pros from other major leagues, or any super-hyped draft pick, suggests a very different story.


This thought has been on my mind the past 2-3 seasons. There's been dueling narratives in the W.
- There aren't enough roster spots for all the incoming talent.
- There's a big gap between the established league stars and the players fighting to crack rotations.
We've seen contending teams really struggle to figure out bench lineups and back ends of rotations (hello, Aces), with so much of the league being treated as an unsatisfying "replacement level", and also rookies drafted in the top 10 being out of the league before their next contract. The Valkyries are exclusively made up of this kind of player, and yet they have a winning record. Their top 5 pick, Juste Joyce, didn't even come over this year. They picked up Indiana's backup center, Minnesota's unused foreign veteran import, Connecticut's 3rd string point guard... and they're better than half the league.
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Re: Comparing the 2025 Valkeries with prior Expansion 

Post#3 » by hermes » Tue Sep 2, 2025 5:32 pm

what about other sports? i think the recent nfl expansions teams were all bad for a while at the start
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Re: Comparing the 2025 Valkeries with prior Expansion 

Post#4 » by Doctor MJ » Tue Sep 2, 2025 11:42 pm

hermes wrote:what about other sports? i think the recent nfl expansions teams were all bad for a while at the start

Yup, that’s the norm in any mature league where “expansion” means taking leftovers. I’d say any time you have an expansion team that’s actually above average, that’s an interesting story because it really shouldn’t be possible.


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Re: Comparing the 2025 Valkeries with prior Expansion 

Post#5 » by BlacJacMac » Wed Sep 3, 2025 1:08 am

hermes wrote:what about other sports? i think the recent nfl expansions teams were all bad for a while at the start


It all depends on how the initial set-up is handled. When the NHL expanded last, teams were only allowed to protect 11 players. So Vegas got a lot of good talent and also made a bunch of side deals to get draft picks in exchange for NOT taking certain players. Combine that with some salary cap casualties and Vegas had a really beneficial start.

Granted they still had to pick the right players, make the right deals and hire the right people, but the Vegas Knights made the Stanley Cup Finals in their 1st season, won it in their 6th and have missed the Playoffs 1 time in 9 years.
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Re: Comparing the 2025 Valkeries with prior Expansion 

Post#6 » by Doctor MJ » Wed Sep 3, 2025 4:41 am

BlacJacMac wrote:
hermes wrote:what about other sports? i think the recent nfl expansions teams were all bad for a while at the start


It all depends on how the initial set-up is handled. When the NHL expanded last, teams were only allowed to protect 11 players. So Vegas got a lot of good talent and also made a bunch of side deals to get draft picks in exchange for NOT taking certain players. Combine that with some salary cap casualties and Vegas had a really beneficial start.

Granted they still had to pick the right players, make the right deals and hire the right people, but the Vegas Knights made the Stanley Cup Finals in their 1st season, won it in their 6th and have missed the Playoffs 1 time in 9 years.


Wow. That's amazing.

Definitely worthwhile to see an analysis comparing sports on this.

Reading up on Vegas Golden Knights, it sounds like part of what people agree was doing on was a bunch of guys all with a chip on their shoulder for being let go bonding together and seeking revenge. No given on that, but an expansion team is a great opportunity for building culture, and I know that the Valkeries are doing all they can think to do on that.
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Re: Comparing the 2025 Valkeries with prior Expansion 

Post#7 » by Green Chile » Wed Sep 3, 2025 11:25 am

I also worry about the free agency part possibly messing with their chemistry.

If I'm them, I go hard after A'ja or Phee.

If not them, then I would generally leave the rest be.
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Re: Comparing the 2025 Valkeries with prior Expansion 

Post#8 » by cdubbz » Sun Sep 7, 2025 3:11 am

Green Chile wrote:I also worry about the free agency part possibly messing with their chemistry.

If I'm them, I go hard after A'ja or Phee.

If not them, then I would generally leave the rest be.


Have a feeling they will go big or go home with this off season. They've already proven they can win, have first class facilities, and have die hard fans. Wilson? Sabrina? Phee?
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