Shams: Cam Thomas signs the QO

[gswhoops]

Smart move for Cam. I know his gaudy scoring numbers can be deceiving but you can bet someone next season will give him the bag when there are like 10 teams with projected cap space who want to to compete like the Bulls/Wizards/Jazz etc

I think the league has generally gotten wise to the idea that undersized, ball-dominant 2 guards who don't do anything other than score a ton on mediocre efficiency aren't very valuable.

I know Cam thinks he's a franchise player worth $30M+ per year but I think he's going to be disappointed with the results of this decision, especially since (like others have noted) Brooklyn drafted a bunch of guards and clearly doesn't see Cam as a long-term piece.

[Celts17Pride]

Going to be tough for Thomas, Giddey, Grimes, Kuminga etc. type players. Money is not going to be there like years past. Not when teams have to pay a range of $65-80 million per year to their very top players. The Thomas, Simons, Giddey, Grimes, Kuminga etc. type players new range will probably be in the $14-22 million per year range.

[gswhoops]

Interesting, I wonder if Grimes and Kuminga do the same, and this becomes more of a thing.

Idk about Grimes but Kuminga certainly seems stubborn enough/convinced of his own value to do it.

Cam is going to full Kobe this year. And he probably won't waive his NTC to preserve Bird rights. Unless one of the teams with cap next summer trades for him?

The Nets want to be bad, so Cam chucking is fine. For awhile. Until they want to start getting the kids some PT. On the ball. And the Nets have no obligation to just roll him out there and let him collect stats to get paid.

When the benchings start coming in January, I suspect it's gonna be must see TV. Can he throw a Harden level fit?

This to me feels like the fundamental problem with taking the QO for guys like Cam (and Kuminga) who still have a lot to prove to get the megadeal they think they deserve. Once you sign the QO, you've signaled you have no intention of re-signing, and you're basically untradeable because you have an NTC and lose Bird rights in a deal. So the Nets/Warriors have zero incentive to play them outside of whatever they think they can get out of them this year.

Cam might start off the year playing heavy minutes as a tank commander, but eventually they're gonna want to get Demin, Traore, etc. minutes and touches, and that's not really compatible with Cam's game.

[SkyHook]

Smart move for Cam. I know his gaudy scoring numbers can be deceiving but you can bet someone next season will give him the bag when there are like 10 teams with projected cap space who want to to compete like the Bulls/Wizards/Jazz etc

Not the Jazz, imo. If they wanted an overpaid Cam Thomas type player, they would have just kept Sexton on his $19MM expiring contract rather than pay to move him.

[HornetJail]

Grimes and Kuminga should be taking any decent long term money that comes their way

Giddey has long been capable of putting up large numbers on bad teams. He can afford to play out a QO, put up the 20/9/9 or whatever he was doing after last season's deadline and he'll get a nice contract.

Grimes and Kuminga may not get such big opportunities

[gswhoops]

Grimes and Kuminga should be taking any decent long term money that comes their way

Giddey has long been capable of putting up large numbers on bad teams. He can afford to play out a QO, put up the 20/9/9 or whatever he was doing after last season's deadline and he'll get a nice contract.

Grimes and Kuminga may not get such big opportunities

I mean Kerr already basically has to be forced to play Kuminga, I'm not sure what his minutes will look like when ownership no longer has any incentive to showcase him but I can't imagine it'll be good.

[jayjaysee]

Should’ve taken the offer imo. Brooklyn was smart not to overpay, but I think they could’ve offered a 3rd year player option or added a year and a player option etc.. No idea if he would’ve taken it anyways though.

[Billl]

You know who is the big winner in all this? OKC. If you don't want to commit to a guy on his second deal, you move him for value while you can. It makes no sense to go into RFA if you are way misaligned in terms of role and contract. The number of times that works out of the team is vanishingly small.

[mg]

Should’ve taken the offer imo. Brooklyn was smart not to overpay, but I think they could’ve offered a 3rd year player option or added a year and a player option etc.. No idea if he would’ve taken it anyways though.

Brooklyn wasn't even willing to guarantee the 2nd year which was apparently a team option.

[the_process]

Interesting, I wonder if Grimes and Kuminga do the same, and this becomes more of a thing.

Idk about Grimes but Kuminga certainly seems stubborn enough/convinced of his own value to do it.

Cam is going to full Kobe this year. And he probably won't waive his NTC to preserve Bird rights. Unless one of the teams with cap next summer trades for him?

The Nets want to be bad, so Cam chucking is fine. For awhile. Until they want to start getting the kids some PT. On the ball. And the Nets have no obligation to just roll him out there and let him collect stats to get paid.

When the benchings start coming in January, I suspect it's gonna be must see TV. Can he throw a Harden level fit?

This to me feels like the fundamental problem with taking the QO for guys like Cam (and Kuminga) who still have a lot to prove to get the megadeal they think they deserve. Once you sign the QO, you've signaled you have no intention of re-signing, and you're basically untradeable because you have an NTC and lose Bird rights in a deal. So the Nets/Warriors have zero incentive to play them outside of whatever they think they can get out of them this year.

Cam might start off the year playing heavy minutes as a tank commander, but eventually they're gonna want to get Demin, Traore, etc. minutes and touches, and that's not really compatible with Cam's game.

I think the answer is to preserve Bird Rights for guys even when traded on their QO. Don't consider it a separate one year deal, but rather a 5th year extension of a rookie deal. This change would also remove the NTC. Because right now as is, taking a QO almost automatically puts the player and team at opposed purposes.

[Billl]

Interesting, I wonder if Grimes and Kuminga do the same, and this becomes more of a thing.

Idk about Grimes but Kuminga certainly seems stubborn enough/convinced of his own value to do it.

Cam is going to full Kobe this year. And he probably won't waive his NTC to preserve Bird rights. Unless one of the teams with cap next summer trades for him?

The Nets want to be bad, so Cam chucking is fine. For awhile. Until they want to start getting the kids some PT. On the ball. And the Nets have no obligation to just roll him out there and let him collect stats to get paid.

When the benchings start coming in January, I suspect it's gonna be must see TV. Can he throw a Harden level fit?

This to me feels like the fundamental problem with taking the QO for guys like Cam (and Kuminga) who still have a lot to prove to get the megadeal they think they deserve. Once you sign the QO, you've signaled you have no intention of re-signing, and you're basically untradeable because you have an NTC and lose Bird rights in a deal. So the Nets/Warriors have zero incentive to play them outside of whatever they think they can get out of them this year.

Cam might start off the year playing heavy minutes as a tank commander, but eventually they're gonna want to get Demin, Traore, etc. minutes and touches, and that's not really compatible with Cam's game.

I think the answer is to preserve Bird Rights for guys even when traded on their QO. Don't consider it a separate one year deal, but rather a 5th year extension of a rookie deal. This change would also remove the NTC. Because right now as is, taking a QO almost automatically puts the player and team at opposed purposes.

Yes, that's the point of having a QO. It's supposed to encourage teams and players to negotiate in good faith to avoid this situation. It's designed to be the "bad" outcome for everyone.

[jayjaysee]

Should’ve taken the offer imo. Brooklyn was smart not to overpay, but I think they could’ve offered a 3rd year player option or added a year and a player option etc.. No idea if he would’ve taken it anyways though.

Brooklyn wasn't even willing to guarantee the 2nd year which was apparently a team option.

That I didn’t know. I still think he should’ve taken it even if it was a team option.

Next years free agent class not being good, doesn’t mean anyone is paying him big.. Expect him to be looking at full MLE offers. And that be pretty comparable to just getting the money now..

[the_process]

Idk about Grimes but Kuminga certainly seems stubborn enough/convinced of his own value to do it.


This to me feels like the fundamental problem with taking the QO for guys like Cam (and Kuminga) who still have a lot to prove to get the megadeal they think they deserve. Once you sign the QO, you've signaled you have no intention of re-signing, and you're basically untradeable because you have an NTC and lose Bird rights in a deal. So the Nets/Warriors have zero incentive to play them outside of whatever they think they can get out of them this year.

Cam might start off the year playing heavy minutes as a tank commander, but eventually they're gonna want to get Demin, Traore, etc. minutes and touches, and that's not really compatible with Cam's game.

I think the answer is to preserve Bird Rights for guys even when traded on their QO. Don't consider it a separate one year deal, but rather a 5th year extension of a rookie deal. This change would also remove the NTC. Because right now as is, taking a QO almost automatically puts the player and team at opposed purposes.

Yes, that's the point of having a QO. It's supposed to encourage teams and players to negotiate in good faith to avoid this situation. It's designed to be the "bad"
outcome for everyone.

I don't think having a bad outcome built in to the process is very helpful? If it was a 5th year option then UFA at least both parties would still be on the same side here.

[Billl]

I think the answer is to preserve Bird Rights for guys even when traded on their QO. Don't consider it a separate one year deal, but rather a 5th year extension of a rookie deal. This change would also remove the NTC. Because right now as is, taking a QO almost automatically puts the player and team at opposed purposes.

Yes, that's the point of having a QO. It's supposed to encourage teams and players to negotiate in good faith to avoid this situation. It's designed to be the "bad"
outcome for everyone.

I don't think having a bad outcome built in to the process is very helpful? If it was a 5th year option then UFA at least both parties would still be on the same side here.

Yes, it's very helpful. It's a strong incentive for both sides to compromise.

And teams don't want their picks having an easy path to UFA - especially smaller market teams.

[redslastlaugh]

Trade rules are too smart for me, I admit. Can someone tell me if Anfernee Simons straight up for Cam Thomas, given BRK's existing cap space, would be a legal trade?

[SacTown Kings]

Should’ve taken the offer imo. Brooklyn was smart not to overpay, but I think they could’ve offered a 3rd year player option or added a year and a player option etc.. No idea if he would’ve taken it anyways though.

Brooklyn wasn't even willing to guarantee the 2nd year which was apparently a team option.

That I didn’t know. I still think he should’ve taken it even if it was a team option.

Next years free agent class not being good, doesn’t mean anyone is paying him big.. Expect him to be looking at full MLE offers. And that be pretty comparable to just getting the money now..

I think having control over your future means a lot to people, much more than some think. The difference between having say 10 mil over 5 mil probably does not impact your life. But controlling where you live, where your family lives, what type of situation or organization to play for can have a big impact on things.

[Sactowndog]

Cam certainly has his pride.

I have to respect him betting on himself to get the money he thinks he deserves.

I hope that there are no hard feelings and that he would entertain an extension from the Nets instead of just wanting out.

Moving him at the trade deadline would probably be the smart move for the Nets.

As he's signing a one year contract, he can't legally extend. He will hit free agency next summer.

As for moving him at the deadline, he has veto power, and he would lose his Bird Rights if he's traded. And at the number he's signed at, it'd be very hard for a team to re-sign him in free agency without having cap space, which they could use to sign him in free agency? He's essentially little value, if any, especially since he's made clear he won't take MLE money.

There is probably a Monte McNair that will waste a 2nd round pick on the hope of making the play/offs.

[the_process]

Yes, that's the point of having a QO. It's supposed to encourage teams and players to negotiate in good faith to avoid this situation. It's designed to be the "bad"
outcome for everyone.

I don't think having a bad outcome built in to the process is very helpful? If it was a 5th year option then UFA at least both parties would still be on the same side here.

Yes, it's very helpful. It's a strong incentive for both sides to compromise.

And teams don't want their picks having an easy path to UFA - especially smaller market teams.

You keep missing the fact we are past the compromise part now. And there is no reason for a team to compromise in these types of markets.

[Sactowndog]

Interesting, I wonder if Grimes and Kuminga do the same, and this becomes more of a thing.

Idk about Grimes but Kuminga certainly seems stubborn enough/convinced of his own value to do it.

Cam is going to full Kobe this year. And he probably won't waive his NTC to preserve Bird rights. Unless one of the teams with cap next summer trades for him?

The Nets want to be bad, so Cam chucking is fine. For awhile. Until they want to start getting the kids some PT. On the ball. And the Nets have no obligation to just roll him out there and let him collect stats to get paid.

When the benchings start coming in January, I suspect it's gonna be must see TV. Can he throw a Harden level fit?

This to me feels like the fundamental problem with taking the QO for guys like Cam (and Kuminga) who still have a lot to prove to get the megadeal they think they deserve. Once you sign the QO, you've signaled you have no intention of re-signing, and you're basically untradeable because you have an NTC and lose Bird rights in a deal. So the Nets/Warriors have zero incentive to play them outside of whatever they think they can get out of them this year.

Cam might start off the year playing heavy minutes as a tank commander, but eventually they're gonna want to get Demin, Traore, etc. minutes and touches, and that's not really compatible with Cam's game.

Kuminga at his size and length will get paid.

[Scoot McGroot]

Trade rules are too smart for me, I admit. Can someone tell me if Anfernee Simons straight up for Cam Thomas, given BRK's existing cap space, would be a legal trade?

Brooklyn has less than $9m in cap space right now. Add that to Cam’s salary of $6m, and they can take back $15m or so, when Thomas is tradeable midseason.

So, no.

Midseason, Brooklyn could legally trade Mann/Highsmith to get Simons. Move Highsmith to a 3rd team as part of the deal, and Boston gets JUST UNDER the tax line, I believe.