Warriors exploring S&T for Kuminga

[vvoland]

You’re missing the boat here.

If the warriors improve their offer and JK accepts it, they will be able to receive a better return than they are if they were to move him in a S&T.

Why would they be able to receive a better return? They can just accept more salary that doesn't change JK's value.

Sure it does. A team hardly ever gets full value for a player in RFA. He would be more valuable at the deadline, IMO.

I think JK will have multiple teams interested in him if he hits UFA...Did any of the teams for the other RFA's receive trade offers? I didn't hear of any.

If you are right then the Warriors should have never extended a QO to JK if he has negative value.

I don't think it's particularly debatable that JK will have more value in Feb, if only due to the BYC restrictions falling off. We're offering 2/45 that's really a 1/23. Sac offered 3/60+ and phx was at 4/90, right? I don't see the real downside of just giving him the 2/45 and calling it a day. Just the fact that all 30 teams can be involved vs ~10 that can afford to take in a S&T player would tilt the playing field, significantly.

[whatisacenter]

Why would they be able to receive a better return? They can just accept more salary that doesn't change JK's value.

Sure it does. A team hardly ever gets full value for a player in RFA. He would be more valuable at the deadline, IMO.

I think JK will have multiple teams interested in him if he hits UFA...Did any of the teams for the other RFA's receive trade offers? I didn't hear of any.

If you are right then the Warriors should have never extended a QO to JK if he has negative value.

I don't think it's particularly debatable that JK will have more value in Feb, if only due to the BYC restrictions falling off. We're offering 2/45 that's really a 1/23. Sac offered 3/60+ and phx was at 4/90, right? I don't see the real downside of just giving him the 2/45 and calling it a day. Just the fact that all 30 teams can be involved vs ~10 that can afford to take in a S&T player would tilt the playing field, significantly.

Thank you. Seems straightforward to me as well.

I don’t even know what others are thinking when it comes to this and it’s probably just their bias against JK talking.

[Onus]

Sure it does. A team hardly ever gets full value for a player in RFA. He would be more valuable at the deadline, IMO.

I think JK will have multiple teams interested in him if he hits UFA...Did any of the teams for the other RFA's receive trade offers? I didn't hear of any.

If you are right then the Warriors should have never extended a QO to JK if he has negative value.

I don't think it's particularly debatable that JK will have more value in Feb, if only due to the BYC restrictions falling off. We're offering 2/45 that's really a 1/23. Sac offered 3/60+ and phx was at 4/90, right? I don't see the real downside of just giving him the 2/45 and calling it a day. Just the fact that all 30 teams can be involved vs ~10 that can afford to take in a S&T player would tilt the playing field, significantly.

Thank you. Seems straightforward to me as well.

I don’t even know what others are thinking when it comes to this and it’s probably just their bias against JK talking.

TBH I’d rather sign jk at 3/60 than the 1+1. I absolutely hate the 1+1 because it signals that we’re trading him at the deadline when this is probably the last year we have a legitimate shot at the title and I want everyone to be bought in rather than having their own goals. But since the warriors are only offering the 1+1 and they want to trade him the 2nd year isn’t worth giving to him if we’re trading him to get the most value for him.

[marthafokker]

Cam signed the QO. Nets lost all his value now. So Dubs wants the same with JK? Guess that is the stands.

[Crazy-Canuck]

Sure it does. A team hardly ever gets full value for a player in RFA. He would be more valuable at the deadline, IMO.

I think JK will have multiple teams interested in him if he hits UFA...Did any of the teams for the other RFA's receive trade offers? I didn't hear of any.

If you are right then the Warriors should have never extended a QO to JK if he has negative value.

I don't think it's particularly debatable that JK will have more value in Feb, if only due to the BYC restrictions falling off. We're offering 2/45 that's really a 1/23. Sac offered 3/60+ and phx was at 4/90, right? I don't see the real downside of just giving him the 2/45 and calling it a day. Just the fact that all 30 teams can be involved vs ~10 that can afford to take in a S&T player would tilt the playing field, significantly.

Thank you. Seems straightforward to me as well.

I don’t even know what others are thinking when it comes to this and it’s probably just their bias against JK talking.

That's why the warriors want that team option on the 2nd year. Other teams might not value jk at 20M like the Kings. So options become important for the team to potentially not be on the hook for an extra year at 20M, especially since they likely want the expiring.

If jk wants off the team he takes that 1+1 knowing the team will trade him at the deadline. He gets to start fresh and the team gets a better fitting vet help.

If he wants to make the team pay, he takes the qo. And makes this personal for both sides in what is likely the last legit chance at a title.

[CS707]

Why would they be able to receive a better return? They can just accept more salary that doesn't change JK's value.

Sure it does. A team hardly ever gets full value for a player in RFA. He would be more valuable at the deadline, IMO.

I think JK will have multiple teams interested in him if he hits UFA...Did any of the teams for the other RFA's receive trade offers? I didn't hear of any.

If you are right then the Warriors should have never extended a QO to JK if he has negative value.

I don't think it's particularly debatable that JK will have more value in Feb, if only due to the BYC restrictions falling off. We're offering 2/45 that's really a 1/23. Sac offered 3/60+ and phx was at 4/90, right? I don't see the real downside of just giving him the 2/45 and calling it a day. Just the fact that all 30 teams can be involved vs ~10 that can afford to take in a S&T player would tilt the playing field, significantly.

I'm not sure what another team is willing to pay him necessarily translates to trade value for the Warriors. If it's the poo-poo platter we've seen to date, what's the point? We might actually lose leverage given the receiving team would know that we want to move off the contract. At the end of the day I just assume the Warriors FO has a better pulse on his market around the league and are strategizing accordingly.

[Twinkie defense]

If you are right then the Warriors should have never extended a QO to JK if he has negative value.

He doesn't have negative value at $7.9 mil but he might at $25 mil.

[EvanZ]

The Warriors are offering the contract that they think makes JK the most tradable he can be. They are not doing it to spite him or because they are dumb.

What's weird to me is JK is acting like someone who think the Warriors shouldn't trade him. That is what makes no sense. Get with the program JK. Help the Warriors help you.

[whatisacenter]

If you are right then the Warriors should have never extended a QO to JK if he has negative value.

He doesn't have negative value at $7.9 mil but he might at $25 mil.

He has no value to the Warriors at $7.9M.

The Warriors are offering the contract that they think makes JK the most tradable he can be. They are not doing it to spite him or because they are dumb.

What's weird to me is JK is acting like someone who think the Warriors shouldn't trade him. That is what makes no sense. Get with the program JK. Help the Warriors help you.

It's not that hard to understand...He wants some agency in where he ends up if he is signing a 1yr contract.

[EvanZ]

If you are right then the Warriors should have never extended a QO to JK if he has negative value.

He doesn't have negative value at $7.9 mil but he might at $25 mil.

He has no value to the Warriors at $7.9M.

The Warriors are offering the contract that they think makes JK the most tradable he can be. They are not doing it to spite him or because they are dumb.

What's weird to me is JK is acting like someone who think the Warriors shouldn't trade him. That is what makes no sense. Get with the program JK. Help the Warriors help you.

It's not that hard to understand...He wants some agency in where he ends up if he is signing a 1yr contract.

But what he wants is to be traded. He’s making that harder if not impossible to do. Don’t you get that? Teams are not going to trade for someone who can easily opt out. They certainly won’t give up any value for it. If the shoe were on the other foot and you wanted us to trade for a player would you want them to have player option? This is the calculus the FO is doing and you and many others including the media can’t seem to wrap their heads around.

[marthafokker]

If you are right then the Warriors should have never extended a QO to JK if he has negative value.

He doesn't have negative value at $7.9 mil but he might at $25 mil.

He has no value to the Warriors at $7.9M.

The Warriors are offering the contract that they think makes JK the most tradable he can be. They are not doing it to spite him or because they are dumb.

What's weird to me is JK is acting like someone who think the Warriors shouldn't trade him. That is what makes no sense. Get with the program JK. Help the Warriors help you.

It's not that hard to understand...He wants some agency in where he ends up if he is signing a 1yr contract.

What is worse with QO... Kerr will bench him for team JK plays, another season of CNP-CD. So QO is worse than getting Sacto's garbage.

Not offering QO would have been better.

[whatisacenter]

He doesn't have negative value at $7.9 mil but he might at $25 mil.

He has no value to the Warriors at $7.9M.

The Warriors are offering the contract that they think makes JK the most tradable he can be. They are not doing it to spite him or because they are dumb.

What's weird to me is JK is acting like someone who think the Warriors shouldn't trade him. That is what makes no sense. Get with the program JK. Help the Warriors help you.

It's not that hard to understand...He wants some agency in where he ends up if he is signing a 1yr contract.

But what he wants is to be traded. He’s making that harder if not impossible to do. Don’t you get that? Teams are not going to trade for someone who can easily opt out. They certainly won’t give up any value for it. If the shoe were on the other foot and you wanted us to trade for a player would you want them to have player option? This is the calculus the FO is doing and you and many others including the media can’t seem to wrap their heads around.

Duh, I think everybody knows this....

Like I said, he wants to go but he also wants some agency.

There are 3 possible outcomes. He signs the QO, he signs the current offer or they meet in the middle.

I guess the 4th option would be the Warriors accepting a S&T.

[Crazy-Canuck]

He doesn't have negative value at $7.9 mil but he might at $25 mil.

He has no value to the Warriors at $7.9M.

The Warriors are offering the contract that they think makes JK the most tradable he can be. They are not doing it to spite him or because they are dumb.

What's weird to me is JK is acting like someone who think the Warriors shouldn't trade him. That is what makes no sense. Get with the program JK. Help the Warriors help you.

It's not that hard to understand...He wants some agency in where he ends up if he is signing a 1yr contract.

But what he wants is to be traded. He’s making that harder if not impossible to do. Don’t you get that? Teams are not going to trade for someone who can easily opt out. They certainly won’t give up any value for it. If the shoe were on the other foot and you wanted us to trade for a player would you want them to have player option? This is the calculus the FO is doing and you and many others including the media can’t seem to wrap their heads around.

Jk wants to get traded. BUT...

He wants to control where he gets traded, in order to :
- get paid
- get multiple years
- priority in offense
- a starting spot

And he is using the threat of the qo as his leverage.

He and his team have a delusional sense of worth, but they are in their rights to look out for themself and to screw everyone else.

[thunderdunk]

I can't believe that this thread is still going... Anyway, it seems like, if the Dubs give JK a 2 year deal with a player option, then he'll have the right to walk after the season, thus limiting his value to the acquiring team - right? But at least they could potentially match salaries in a S&T during the season with a team that wants to extend JK, and that team could reach at least a tentative, verbal agreement to extend him before making the trade? (Then both sides would have to rely on the other to be truthful about signing the future extension -- unlike, say, Carlos Boozer back in the day.) I suppose the same could be said if JK takes the QO -- but with a much lower matching salary -- so that another player or players would need to be added in order to trade him for an impact player (unless they trade him for someone still on a rookie contract?)? In either case, JK would need to approve the trade in order for him to hold much value at all. Am I seeing this correctly? A much less complicated deal would be to sign him to a straightforward 2-year deal, so whoever acquires him has at least the guarantee of a second year... but would the Dubs be willing to just do a straight up 2/45? Is there a market for him if they do? This whole thing is a mess -- for both sides.

[watch1958]

Kick the can down the road. Have a mutual option for the second season. Require that the options be exercised by some date just before the trade deadline.

That way, the options are just another part of the S&T discussion midseason.

[statsman]

Trading a player on a qualifying offer has several issues. The player has the right of trade refusal. The player would be an unrestricted FA next offseason. The team acquiring the player would not receive that player's current Bird rights. They would revert back to non-Bird rights. So, the most a new team could offer him using his Bird rights next season would be about $9.6M ($8M x 120%). They would have to create cap space or use the NTMLE for a larger contract.

[watch1958]

Trading a player on a qualifying offer has several issues. The player has the right of trade refusal. The player would be an unrestricted FA next offseason. The team acquiring the player would not receive that player's current Bird rights. They would revert back to non-Bird rights. So, the most a new team could offer him using his Bird rights next season would be about $9.6M ($8M x 120%). They would have to create cap space or use the NTMLE for a larger contract.

If he accepts the QO and. accidentally turns into a great player, would the Dubs have his Bird rights?

[statsman]

Trading a player on a qualifying offer has several issues. The player has the right of trade refusal. The player would be an unrestricted FA next offseason. The team acquiring the player would not receive that player's current Bird rights. They would revert back to non-Bird rights. So, the most a new team could offer him using his Bird rights next season would be about $9.6M ($8M x 120%). They would have to create cap space or use the NTMLE for a larger contract.

If he accepts the QO and. accidentally turns into a great player, would the Dubs have his Bird rights?

If Kuminga played for the qualifying offer, the Warriors would have his full Bird rights next offseason. If he played well, some team would pry him away with a FA offer. If he was not impactful, I question whether a team would clear a lot of cap space for him.

One scenario that could happen is if a team wanted to give him a contract he would play for, but they didn't have enough cap space next offseason is to seek a S&T deal with the Warriors. This is what was done when Klay was traded to the Mavs. Kuminga's Bird rights would transfer in a S&T, and the Warriors wouldn't have to deal with BYC issues.

[The-Power]

Agree but this just shows you JK is bluffing his ass off. He doesn’t intent to take the QO. If he was so confident in his ability to earn a big contract next year he would have already taken the QO before Cam did.

What's his incentive to take the QO early?

[statsman]

Agree but this just shows you JK is bluffing his ass off. He doesn’t intent to take the QO. If he was so confident in his ability to earn a big contract next year he would have already taken the QO before Cam did.

What's his incentive to take the QO early?

I don't think there is one. If Kuminga thinks there is even a remote chance at a better deal from the Warriors, a workable S&T deal, or even a last minute RFA offer, it is in his best interests to wait it out.

While we wait, how about we cue up some Kuminga workout videos from Miami where he's backing down piss-ant trainers on his way to the basket.