ATL - Wemby dominates, Billups arrested in gambling probe

[MikeIsGood]

Just listened to the Hoop Collective crew + Ramona.

Some are saying Ramona tossed softballs but I think it was a good interview because it she let Ballmer talk. And I'm not sure he came off all that well. Interestingly Ballmer flew to ESPN studios in CT to do the interview.

Windy basically said because as of now there is no smoking gun document where Ballmer directed the company to pay Kawhi, will be hard to prove and he doesn't see much happening. Said the two key circumstantial pieces are the dollar size of the deal and the fact Kawhi did nothing for it.

MacMahon though said the whole thing stinks to high heaven and won't be going away anytime soon.

People are obsessed with the idea that there needs to be a "smoking gun". Prisons would be empty if that were the case; it's not true in court and it's not true here. What is the counter-theory? That Aspiration slipped Kawhi 50m under the table without the Clippers' knowledge as a pure-hearted act of Clippers fanaticism?

They wanted access to the famously outgoing good-time that is Kawhi Leonard.

Listen, did the board man not get paid?

[MickeyDavis]

Stuff like this bums me out when I think about the possibility that Giannis' loyalty might be from more than just loyalty. Still would shock me as that's not the type of person we've come to love but Cuban instantly coming out in Ballmer's defense when so few of the facts had come out makes me believe this might be pretty much commonplace.

Whatever we may have given Giannis under the table (and I'm not saying we did),he could have got from any other team.

Giannis' loyalty can't be questioned. He's about to begin his 13th year.

[skbucks1985]

ESPN is a mouthpiece, as we've known for years now. The more they are purchased partners with these leagues, the worse it will get. I think him going on is perfectly calculated. It may not be smart, but it's calculated. The only place most people that aren't us will hear about this is...ESPN.

Just listened to the Hoop Collective crew + Ramona.

Some are saying Ramona tossed softballs but I think it was a good interview because it she let Ballmer talk. And I'm not sure he came off all that well. Interestingly Ballmer flew to ESPN studios in CT to do the interview.

Windy basically said because as of now there is no smoking gun document where Ballmer directed the company to pay Kawhi, will be hard to prove and he doesn't see much happening. Said the two key circumstantial pieces are the dollar size of the deal and the fact Kawhi did nothing for it.

MacMahon though said the whole thing stinks to high heaven and won't be going away anytime soon.

People are obsessed with the idea that there needs to be a "smoking gun". Prisons would be empty if that were the case; it's not true in court and it's not true here. What is the counter-theory? That Aspiration slipped Kawhi 50m under the table without the Clippers' knowledge as a pure-hearted act of Clippers fanaticism?

If you believe, as I do, that there are very few people in and around the league that want to actually find out the truth and give the Clippers a just punishment, then the lack of a smoking gun is the presupposition for doing what you already wanted to do.

[sidney lanier]

With the Aspiration guy behind bars as a result of much more consequential frauds than the nonexistence of anything beginning "Hi, Kawhi Leonard here for carbon offsets," I think Silver is going to demand nothing more than restitution of whatever part of the $28M actually hit his bank account. Since Aspiration went backrupt, there appears to have been a big unpaid piece.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

Stuff like this bums me out when I think about the possibility that Giannis' loyalty might be from more than just loyalty. Still would shock me as that's not the type of person we've come to love but Cuban instantly coming out in Ballmer's defense when so few of the facts had come out makes me believe this might be pretty much commonplace.

Whatever we may have given Giannis under the table (and I'm not saying we did),he could have got from any other team.

Giannis' loyalty can't be questioned. He's about to begin his 13th year.

The whole loyalty thing with Giannis is kind of weird. Yes, it is the same fan base but what is he loyal to? He isn't from here, he didn't ask to come here, the owners have completely changed, the management has completely turned over, the coaching staff has changed over several times, he is the only guy remaining from his rookie season, the practice center has changed, the stadium has changed, even 95% if the people in the stadium have changed over. I'm kind of over him needing to be loyal, just as long as he doesn't go the AD route or **** on the city on the way out.

[jakecronus8]

Stuff like this bums me out when I think about the possibility that Giannis' loyalty might be from more than just loyalty. Still would shock me as that's not the type of person we've come to love but Cuban instantly coming out in Ballmer's defense when so few of the facts had come out makes me believe this might be pretty much commonplace.

Whatever we may have given Giannis under the table (and I'm not saying we did),he could have got from any other team.

Giannis' loyalty can't be questioned. He's about to begin his 13th year.

The whole loyalty thing with Giannis is kind of weird. Yes, it is the same fan base but what is he loyal to? He isn't from here, he didn't ask to come here, the owners have completely changed, the management has completely turned over, the coaching staff has changed over several times, he is the only guy remaining from his rookie season, the practice center has changed, the stadium has changed, even 95% if the people in the stadium have changed over. I'm kind of over him needing to be loyal, just as long as he doesn't go the AD route or **** on the city on the way out.

It's more about romanticizing the idea of who we believe Giannis the person is, as that definitely contributes to his legacy and also just the general feeling of bleakness that we can never ever in this day and age take things at face value.

[BUCKnation]

I think the lack of work is one of the biggest things. Most guys aren't shy to do an ad for their sponsors and with the money in sports right now, you can just wave off a ludicrous sponsorship deal with a few public spots.

[MickeyDavis]

Stuff like this bums me out when I think about the possibility that Giannis' loyalty might be from more than just loyalty. Still would shock me as that's not the type of person we've come to love but Cuban instantly coming out in Ballmer's defense when so few of the facts had come out makes me believe this might be pretty much commonplace.

Whatever we may have given Giannis under the table (and I'm not saying we did),he could have got from any other team.

Giannis' loyalty can't be questioned. He's about to begin his 13th year.

The whole loyalty thing with Giannis is kind of weird. Yes, it is the same fan base but what is he loyal to? He isn't from here, he didn't ask to come here, the owners have completely changed, the management has completely turned over, the coaching staff has changed over several times, he is the only guy remaining from his rookie season, the practice center has changed, the stadium has changed, even 95% if the people in the stadium have changed over. I'm kind of over him needing to be loyal, just as long as he doesn't go the AD route or **** on the city on the way out.

When a guy has stayed in a small market for 13 years of course he's being loyal. That counts for something. To the franchise and the fans. The franchise he won a championship with and who has made big moves (obviously Dame didn't work out) to try to get back there. Yes he's paid a boatload of money, money he could make anywhere. Yes owners, coaches and players have changed. And yet Giannis has stayed. Our other Milwaukee team has to keep trading players who are good because they can't afford to keep them in the f'd up world of MLB. So having a generational talent who chooses to stay here is a big deal. To me anyway. You can be "over it". I think it's great. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

Whatever we may have given Giannis under the table (and I'm not saying we did),he could have got from any other team.

Giannis' loyalty can't be questioned. He's about to begin his 13th year.

The whole loyalty thing with Giannis is kind of weird. Yes, it is the same fan base but what is he loyal to? He isn't from here, he didn't ask to come here, the owners have completely changed, the management has completely turned over, the coaching staff has changed over several times, he is the only guy remaining from his rookie season, the practice center has changed, the stadium has changed, even 95% if the people in the stadium have changed over. I'm kind of over him needing to be loyal, just as long as he doesn't go the AD route or **** on the city on the way out.

When a guy has stayed in a small market for 13 years of course he's being loyal. That counts for something. To the franchise and the fans. The franchise he won a championship with and who has made big moves (obviously Dame didn't work out) to try to get back there. Yes he's paid a boatload of money, money he could make anywhere. Yes owners, coaches and players have changed. And yet Giannis has stayed. Our other Milwaukee team has to keep trading players who are good because they can't afford to keep them in the f'd up world of MLB. So having a generational talent who chooses to stay here is a big deal. To me anyway. You can be "over it". I think it's great. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I think it is great, but by "over it" I mean some kind of expectation that Giannis stays here. If we suck this year and Giannis tells the Bucks behind the scenes next year that he is going to leave in FA and open to a trade, would you hold it against him at all/view him any differently? I wouldn't and honestly would rather see him compete than if we cant put together a decent squad around him. Horst probably did the best he realistically could this off-season and I'm not sure we are a 4-seed with a top 3 player in the NBA.

[jakecronus8]

I think the lack of work is one of the biggest things. Most guys aren't shy to do an ad for their sponsors and with the money in sports right now, you can just wave off a ludicrous sponsorship deal with a few public spots.

True. And Kawhi's DGAF persona won't help

[paulpressey25]

Stuff like this bums me out when I think about the possibility that Giannis' loyalty might be from more than just loyalty. Still would shock me as that's not the type of person we've come to love but Cuban instantly coming out in Ballmer's defense when so few of the facts had come out makes me believe this might be pretty much commonplace.

Not worried. Sure, this stuff goes on everywhere. But it’s at an immaterial level and documented well.

Ballmer, Kawhi and Uncle Dennis were pigs. And big pigs that stay at the trough get slaughtered.

[MickeyDavis]

The whole loyalty thing with Giannis is kind of weird. Yes, it is the same fan base but what is he loyal to? He isn't from here, he didn't ask to come here, the owners have completely changed, the management has completely turned over, the coaching staff has changed over several times, he is the only guy remaining from his rookie season, the practice center has changed, the stadium has changed, even 95% if the people in the stadium have changed over. I'm kind of over him needing to be loyal, just as long as he doesn't go the AD route or **** on the city on the way out.

When a guy has stayed in a small market for 13 years of course he's being loyal. That counts for something. To the franchise and the fans. The franchise he won a championship with and who has made big moves (obviously Dame didn't work out) to try to get back there. Yes he's paid a boatload of money, money he could make anywhere. Yes owners, coaches and players have changed. And yet Giannis has stayed. Our other Milwaukee team has to keep trading players who are good because they can't afford to keep them in the f'd up world of MLB. So having a generational talent who chooses to stay here is a big deal. To me anyway. You can be "over it". I think it's great. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I think it is great, but by "over it" I mean some kind of expectation that Giannis stays here. If we suck this year and Giannis tells the Bucks behind the scenes next year that he is going to leave in FA and open to a trade, would you hold it against him at all/view him any differently? I wouldn't and honestly would rather see him compete than if we cant put together a decent squad around him. Horst probably did the best he realistically could this off-season and I'm not sure we are a 4-seed with a top 3 player in the NBA.

Agree with that. If we are in a position where there's no chance to compete I wouldn't be mad if Giannis left. It would most likely be a mutual decision. Multiple picks and/or young talent to rebuild, Giannis gets a last shot at a title. Win/win. I think most Bucks fans would be understanding of that. Some here wanted to get that route this year.

[drew881]

Stuff like this bums me out when I think about the possibility that Giannis' loyalty might be from more than just loyalty. Still would shock me as that's not the type of person we've come to love but Cuban instantly coming out in Ballmer's defense when so few of the facts had come out makes me believe this might be pretty much commonplace.

If it's commonplace, we'll get a flood of examples coming out in the next few months. I wouldn't be so quick to assume it is.

Most athletes don’t need this because they actually have a personality to sell ****.

Watch on YouTube

[ReasonablySober]

ESPN is a mouthpiece, as we've known for years now. The more they are purchased partners with these leagues, the worse it will get. I think him going on is perfectly calculated. It may not be smart, but it's calculated. The only place most people that aren't us will hear about this is...ESPN.

Just listened to the Hoop Collective crew + Ramona.

Some are saying Ramona tossed softballs but I think it was a good interview because it she let Ballmer talk. And I'm not sure he came off all that well. Interestingly Ballmer flew to ESPN studios in CT to do the interview.

Windy basically said because as of now there is no smoking gun document where Ballmer directed the company to pay Kawhi, will be hard to prove and he doesn't see much happening. Said the two key circumstantial pieces are the dollar size of the deal and the fact Kawhi did nothing for it.

MacMahon though said the whole thing stinks to high heaven and won't be going away anytime soon.

People are obsessed with the idea that there needs to be a "smoking gun". Prisons would be empty if that were the case; it's not true in court and it's not true here. What is the counter-theory? That Aspiration slipped Kawhi 50m under the table without the Clippers' knowledge as a pure-hearted act of Clippers fanaticism?

It's even written into the CBA. If the Clippers can't logically explain away the $48 million and the $50 million amounts, they're guilty in the eyes on the NBA.

[Ron Swanson]

I would hope that the general public isn't gonna buy the amount of gaslighting that we're about to see from all the league/owner affiliated media mouthpieces ("nothing to see here", "if you come down hard it's a slippery slope", etc.), but who am I kidding? The league is gonna slow walk this for months over the course of the entire season because they know most people are gonna eventually forget about it. Silver's the same guy who couldn't say yes fast enough to that Saudi/UAE blood money.

Like, the optics are so horrendous, but Ballmer has the get-out-of-jail free card by nature of being the richest owner in the most glamorous market in the sport. I'll be absolutely stunned if this isn't swept under the rug and conveniently "explained away" that Ballmer was somehow not dumb enough to be this blatant, but just dumb enough to get conned by a fake company that just so happened to defraud everyone except the actual player that they paid under the table (lol).

[MickeyDavis]

I would hope that the general public isn't gonna buy the amount of gaslighting that we're about to see from all the league/owner affiliated media mouthpieces ("nothing to see here", "if you come down hard it's a slippery slope", etc.), but who am I kidding? The league is gonna slow walk this for months over the course of the entire season because they know most people are gonna eventually forget about it. Silver's the same guy who couldn't say yes fast enough to that Saudi/UAE blood money.

Like, the optics are so horrendous, but Ballmer has the get-out-of-jail free card by nature of being the richest owner in the most glamorous market in the sport. I'll be absolutely stunned if this isn't swept under the rug and conveniently "explained away" that Ballmer was somehow not dumb enough to be this blatant, but just dumb enough to get conned by a fake company that just so happened to defraud everyone expect the actual player that they paid under the table (lol).

Agreed. It seems like weird timing to release this the day before the NFL season begins. Football is getting all the attention and will continue to do so. Releasing this a month ago (if the research was done) would have gained more traction. Maybe. Probably not though. Beyond the hard core fans like us it won't make a difference. It should. But it won't.

[Dick Tate]

Need to talk about penalties for Kawhi. He’s owed $50 million this year and $50 million next year. Arguably you’d void that contract and make him a FA. He’d likely lose money then as most teams don’t have cap room to offer him anything close to that.

Then suspend Ballmer from team operations and attending games for an entire year. Fine the team $20 million. Dock them two future firsts.

That all feels about right to me.

I don't think the league wants Kawhi joining the Thunder on an MLE. He'll probably be suspended too

I can't see Kawhi playing anywhere for less than the max.Think he would more likely sit the season out.

Pretty sure the league will void his contract and give him a 1-year ban from the league.

[ReasonablySober]

Read on Twitter

Good listen, and I went back and forth on my opinions regarding whether or not Balmer and the Clippers knew about this.

About 40 minutes in I thought Cuban made a good point. If Balmer really did know about this, the biggest mistake was not writing a check to Uncle Dennis the very minute the whole Aspire thing went south. He would have had to have known that there was $7 million left on the deal and that it would become public as soon as KL's LLC was listed as a creditor in bankruptcy court. Balmer would really have to be the dumbest SOB on the planet if he knew that and didn't nip it in the bud right there.

[Bernman]

Ballmer copped to introducing Kawhi to Aspiration to receive sponsorship $. While he simultaneously would be giving Aspiration $50m. So he was aware he was giving Kawhi a 2nd salary, thereby circumventing the cap. He stepped in it.

Shenanigans are common, like us giving Giannis' bro a few mill a yr as a g-leaguer. And others directing players to sponsors to get paid independently, while they get a cheaper sponsorship w/ the team. But paying a guy directly a 2nd time? Nah, that's uncommon. There'll be a real punishment.

[paulpressey25]

Ballmer’s got one defense here. Did Uncle Dennis go to the company and tell them Ballmer wants this deal (without Ballmer knowing about the ask). And did the company then do the deal thinking they’d get more money from Ballmer. Uncle Dennis might say “you can’t call Steve, otherwise he’s complicit, but he wants this done in order for him to put more equity in”

This is where if I’m the league and if I actually wanted to find out what happened, I’d threaten Kawhi and Uncle Dennis with voiding his contract and suspending him. Get those two to go on record. My guess is they’d sing against Ballmer.