Thinking Basketball Top25 Single Year Peaks of the Millennium

[The Servant]

Dray on the list invalidates it to me. What are they doing?

[ReggiesKnicks]

Dray on the list invalidates it to me. What are they doing?

Why?

[The Servant]

Dray on the list invalidates it to me. What are they doing?

Why?

He's 4 spots behind Luka Doncic, who's peak is 33/10/10 and carrying rosters of scrubs to the Finals as the driver.

The other guy is a great defender who was capable of hitting Curry and Klay with some passes. I just don't see it. He's a benefactor of playing with the only unanimous MVP and when the roster has had "only Dray and Klay" he would have meltdowns, suspensions, put up triple singles routinely.

His peak was crying in the parking lot and convincing KD to bring him some free titles.

[ReggiesKnicks]

Dray on the list invalidates it to me. What are they doing?

Why?

He's 4 spots behind Luka Doncic, who's peak is 33/10/10 and carrying rosters of scrubs to the Finals as the driver.

The other guy is a great defender who was capable of hitting Curry and Klay with some passes. I just don't see it. He's a benefactor of playing with the only unanimous MVP and when the roster has had "only Dray and Klay" he would have meltdowns, suspensions, put up triple singles routinely.

His peak was crying in the parking lot and convincing KD to bring him some free titles.

We have a decade's worth of impact signals that say Draymond is one of the most impactful players of the 2001-2025 era. It's probably fitting he isn't Top 10 like some of the metrics say and moved down a few pegs to the 20-25 range.

I have a hard time seeing 30 players more deserving to be on this list than him. His squeaking into the 20-25 range instead of the 25-30 range really isn't invalidating anything.

Clearly, you have some deep-seated emotions regarding Draymond and his antics, which may be clouding his on-court assessment,t which you have completed of him

[Maxthirty]

Dray on the list invalidates it to me. What are they doing?

You saying this invalidates your opinions on basketball to me.

[The Servant]

Dray on the list invalidates it to me. What are they doing?

You saying this invalidates your opinions on basketball to me.

Take peak Dray and put him on ANY team that's doesn't have Curry and what is his career? He's an all time defender but strangely not many other dpoys on there.

What is his peak, dpoy on 10/7/8 on 52% TS while playing on roster with Kevin Durant and Curry BOTH SHOOTING 50/40/90? Breh I'm not joking when I say half the posters on this board could average 7 apg on a roster with Curry and KD.

Yeah, comparable season to Luka's peak, really...

Sharing a court with two top 20 players all time should factor into looking at advanced stats arguments but yall don't have that kind of comprehension. But look at his plus minus when the team has two ATGs on the court alongside him! A lot of it must come from _____ cuz he's out there too!

[eminence]

In 2021 Bens had a best post-merger top 10 peaks video that had 21st century guys in these slots:
2. LeBron 2012-2013
3. Shaq 2000-2001
7. Curry 2016-2017
8. KG 2003-2004
9. Duncan 2002-2003

KD/Kobe as HMs. We'll see where he goes with Jokic, but I seriously doubt Curry passes up Bron or Shaq. Dropping behind KG/Duncan seems more likely.

1. MJ
4. Hakeem
5. Bird
6. KAJ
10. Magic
HM. Walton

For non 21st century guys.

[ballzboyee]

The only player that has any kind of argument over Kobe's peak is maybe peak early-2000's Shaq or Heatle's Lebron. Curry never has been a two-way player. Kobe is literally better at everything over Garnett and Duncan except position specific skills like rebounding, blocks, and interior defense. Jokic is kind of an interesting case. Statistically, his peak according to advanced numbers is higher than not just Kobe's but anybody in the history of basketball, but I strongly suspect as time passes people will recognize that his insane advanced numbers are scheme-era specific and the rest of the league just has not caught up yet.

[manlisten]

Re: Dray I've always felt he was an overrated playmaker. Most of his assists are just him standing at the top of the key waiting for Steph/Klay to run around screens. He's more of a system passer, he doesn’t really create opportunities for his teammates on his own accord. He's clearly not drawing the attention from the defense as an offensive threat himself.

[NZB2323]

I guess I’ll be the first to say that Embiid on this list is a joke, and he certainly doesn’t belong above any of the guys he’s above, Jimmy Butler, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, or Dame.

I mean, Tatum dropped 57 on Embiid in game 7, but Embiid is ahead of Tatum?

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Why?

He's 4 spots behind Luka Doncic, who's peak is 33/10/10 and carrying rosters of scrubs to the Finals as the driver.

The other guy is a great defender who was capable of hitting Curry and Klay with some passes. I just don't see it. He's a benefactor of playing with the only unanimous MVP and when the roster has had "only Dray and Klay" he would have meltdowns, suspensions, put up triple singles routinely.

His peak was crying in the parking lot and convincing KD to bring him some free titles.

We have a decade's worth of impact signals that say Draymond is one of the most impactful players of the 2001-2025 era. It's probably fitting he isn't Top 10 like some of the metrics say and moved down a few pegs to the 20-25 range.

I have a hard time seeing 30 players more deserving to be on this list than him. His squeaking into the 20-25 range instead of the 25-30 range really isn't invalidating anything.

Clearly, you have some deep-seated emotions regarding Draymond and his antics, which may be clouding his on-court assessment,t which you have completed of him

The issue I have with Draymond, in a list like this one, is how to include him in a realistic team construction, as a top player.
What if he was on a supermax, with properly paid guys around him, in a team with normal spending limits. Are we sure we could really use his skillset to be a contender?
I am not comfortable at having too high guys who can't be the most paid player in a contender.

[Mavrelous]

Dray on the list invalidates it to me. What are they doing?

Why?

He's 4 spots behind Luka Doncic, who's peak is 33/10/10 and carrying rosters of scrubs to the Finals as the driver.

The other guy is a great defender who was capable of hitting Curry and Klay with some passes. I just don't see it. He's a benefactor of playing with the only unanimous MVP and when the roster has had "only Dray and Klay" he would have meltdowns, suspensions, put up triple singles routinely.

His peak was crying in the parking lot and convincing KD to bring him some free titles.

That Mavs team was not a bunch of scrubs, it was a very good supporting cast.

[Mavrelous]

I didn't listen, but I'm not sure what the criteria is.
SGA 25 and Luka 24 are better peaks than many of these listed above them,

[SA37]

Garnett is way too high on the list for me. He's got to be behind pretty much all the guys who won titles as the #1 option on their teams, which would put Garnett around #10.

And that an at-best 3rd option like Draymond Green even gets considered for this kind of list is absolutely crazy.

[The Servant]

Re: Dray I've always felt he was an overrated playmaker. Most of his assists are just him standing at the top of the key waiting for Steph/Klay to run around screens. He's more of a system passer, he doesn’t really create opportunities for his teammates on his own accord. He's clearly not drawing the attention from the defense as an offensive threat himself.

He is closer to Boris Diaw than he is to Steve Nash. Boris Diaw with dpiy defense is a great player. Top 25 peak in the past 25 year? This should be a list of MVP seasons and Dray gets listed and then people call you a casual for suggesting he might not be...

Why?

He's 4 spots behind Luka Doncic, who's peak is 33/10/10 and carrying rosters of scrubs to the Finals as the driver.

The other guy is a great defender who was capable of hitting Curry and Klay with some passes. I just don't see it. He's a benefactor of playing with the only unanimous MVP and when the roster has had "only Dray and Klay" he would have meltdowns, suspensions, put up triple singles routinely.

His peak was crying in the parking lot and convincing KD to bring him some free titles.

That Mavs team was not a bunch of scrubs, it was a very good supporting cast.

When comparing Klay, KD, Steph and Iggy to the cast Luka was playing with though, huge difference in quality.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Update:
Nash and Nowitzki are next, at 13 and 14, but I don't think they gave the final rank.
I still have the feeling that Dirk is the player Ben underrates the most. I don't think he creates real flaws in your defense. I don’t think there's any tram building questionmark about how additive his offense is.
It's more a question of a bias against certain archetype, imo, because he's not a creator.
But he elevates so much all the creators he can play with.

[Bad Bart]

Re: Dray I've always felt he was an overrated playmaker. Most of his assists are just him standing at the top of the key waiting for Steph/Klay to run around screens. He's more of a system passer, he doesn’t really create opportunities for his teammates on his own accord. He's clearly not drawing the attention from the defense as an offensive threat himself.

Draymond was the de facto point guard for most of their run and was responsible for getting the team into their sets. He's an amazing lead ball handler.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Re: Dray I've always felt he was an overrated playmaker. Most of his assists are just him standing at the top of the key waiting for Steph/Klay to run around screens. He's more of a system passer, he doesn’t really create opportunities for his teammates on his own accord. He's clearly not drawing the attention from the defense as an offensive threat himself.

Draymond was the de facto point guard for most of their run and was responsible for getting the team into their sets. He's an amazing lead ball handler.

an amazing lead ball handler is able to break the defense and create advantages.
that's not dray

[levon]

Ginobili? What? I'll sit this one out.

[canada_dry]

Update:
Nash and Nowitzki are next, at 13 and 14, but I don't think they gave the final rank.
I still have the feeling that Dirk is the player Ben underrates the most. I don't think he creates real flaws in your defense. I don’t think there's any tram building questionmark about how additive his offense is.
It's more a question of a bias against certain archetype, imo, because he's not a creator.
But he elevates so much all the creators he can play with.

Totally agreed about dirk.

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