OT : Eurobasket 2025 semifinals | Türkiye vs Greece | & | Finland vs Germany |

[G R E Y]

Georgia the giant slayers!

p.s. someone tell Goga's face his team won.

[Mirotic12]

Cooked or used wisely? His +/- is 3rd is best on the team, only 5th last night, but he played with some silly lineups, with Marek (because they couldn't substitute him out) or with 2 PFs

I don't know man, you see how slow he is on defense, it is not about stats, NBA is still a different animal, we have plenty of stars who are good on offense but bad on D and therefore are not in the NBA, and Jonas is a center on top of that, I hope he can still find minutes in the NBA, but its tough,

Did you see how bad Jokic was on defensive end with Finland? He was responsible for 12/14 pts in 4Q…He was attacked on almost on every possession.

Everyone that is objective knows that Jokic is horrible on defense and always has been. RealGM threads that rate him as a good defender are wildly unrepresented of reality.

For whatever reason, he's always generally gotten a pass from fans and media for being a bad defender.

It's a bit strange really.

[Mirotic12]

"Lithuanian peasants and "two USSR coaches" took care of our "stars" with Giorgio Armani" Some obscure Latvian coach

Reading some of the Latvian comments, I really do not get in what delusional world where they living. Yes, I can see how Latvia at home with Lithuania without Jokubaitis were slight favorites, but they really act like this is some kind of shocking upset. Dude, you have one NBA center and few Euroleague bench warmers and you think you are great? Like seriously I do not know what they were thinking, even this Lithuanian team is still more talented on paper, we have established Euroleague players who were not even invited to camp, like Lomazs and Bertans brothers should scare anybody? Dude, you reached top 16, thats good result for you, I get you are at home and expected more, but you aint powerhouse my friends.

Yeah, but there are all the people that believe just Porzingis, because he is a well known NBA player, that makes him "better than the 12 greatest EuroLeague players ever combined".

[G R E Y]

Live by 3 die by 3 is the unprepared team's strategy. France had too many holes and the strategy failed. Georgia imposed its game plan, played more like a team.

[tirador]

Yes I want to penalize. No matter the size of the country and its population, have enough self respect not to fall for the random american mercenary stuff. I have big respect for all the countries who go to war with their own, without adding any random mercs, win or lose. Slovenia with Randolph and Spain with Lorenzo Brown, there is no respect from me, these titles carry a big asterisk.

Americans themselves added a mercenary Cameroonian because of their lack depth at C, does the Paris gold have asterisk also?

Embid was at least in the USA for a long time. So that's quite a bit different example. But yes, there's an asterisk. For the country with the most talent and depth to be adding naturalized players, that qualiied for two other teams, one of them also being one of the best teams in the world (France), is ridiculous.

Everyone knows they did it just to make France a potentially weaker opponent at the Olympics. That's a very clear abuse of the rules.

The examples of Slovenia with Randolph and L. Brown with Spain were just absolutely egregious abuses of the rule.

Randolph had never even been to Slovenia and was playing for their national team.

So that's a huge asterisk gold. And most people I have talked with about this agree.

That's great mate, I have just asked for a few examples of Eurobasket champions in the last 20 years with no asterisk, still waiting.

[Greek]

Well it seems that a medal for us is coming more and more possible especially with France out since we suffer a lot from athleticism. Congrats both to Finland and Georgia for their huge upsets against more talented teams.

[UcanUwill]

Some people are biased towards Jokic and excuse anything he does, but he has good defensive qualities, he always among leaders in steals and defections and he is smart positional defender. Guys like Jonas or Vucevic are horrible defenders, Jokic is clearly not at that level, he is not rim protector and he is not switchy, I mean that can be death sentence at NBA level, but thing is, even at that he is definitely not among worst.

[KGtabake]

Israel vs Poland

Slovenia vs Georgia


What a final four for a EuroBasket

[lambchop]

Some of these "lesser" teams have looked really good. I think the 24 team format is fine.

This is not the ending Serbia and France hoped for.

[bravor]

Gg Georgia, Kudos to the crowd (very respectful even though they were rightfuly pulling for their guys), and gl for next game

As for France, totally expected, the most concerning being the level of coaching which was even worst than our backcourt -that says a lot-.

[UcanUwill]

Yeah, but there are all the people that believe just Porzingis, because he is a well known NBA player, that makes him "better than the 12 greatest EuroLeague players ever combined".

I do not want to contribute to your Euroleague fetish, but it is 2025, having NBA player is not really that impressive anymore. Yes, Porzingis is a star, but like who else on that Latvian team is a star, like some of their dudes truly believe they belong with elite. I said the same thing this past few years, in these past few years, Latvia in my opinion was easily most overachieving team in FIBA. They got good result in C graded world cup and it got over their head I think. Some Euro teams do not even invite NBA players to camp these days, your second leading scorer just signed with Neptūnas Klaipėda, like hello... The reality check was needed I think.

[UcanUwill]

Israel vs Poland

Slovenia vs Georgia


What a final four for a EuroBasket

You can look at it this way, or you could look at it as, this is the tournament where NBA superstars couldn't even make into top 8. There are always two sides of the coin.

[UcanUwill]

Spoiler:

[Mirotic12]

Some people are biased towards Jokic and excuse anything he does, but he has good defensive qualities, he always among leaders in steals and defections and he is smart positional defender. Guys like Jonas or Vucevic are horrible defenders, Jokic is clearly not at that level, he is not rim protector and he is not switchy, I mean that can be death sentence at NBA level, but thing is, even at that he is definitely not among worst.

True, he's most certainly nothing as bad as someone like Vucevic. The only Euro bigs worse on defense than Vucevic are guys like Bargnani.

However, you criticize a lot of centers that play in EuroLeague as being "totally unplayable in the NBA due to defense", and pretty much all of those players you say that about are better defenders than Jokic is.

Of course, he's way better on offense than all of them.

Jokic is the best center in the world overall, but he's not a good defender and he's always pretty much escaped any real criticism for that.

I've seen some comments here from some people implying he's a similar level of a defender at center as Olajuwon was...

[UcanUwill]

Some people are biased towards Jokic and excuse anything he does, but he has good defensive qualities, he always among leaders in steals and defections and he is smart positional defender. Guys like Jonas or Vucevic are horrible defenders, Jokic is clearly not at that level, he is not rim protector and he is not switchy, I mean that can be death sentence at NBA level, but thing is, even at that he is definitely not among worst.

True, he's most certainly nothing as bad as someone like Vucevic. The only Euro bigs worse on defense than Vucevic are guys like Bargnani.

However, you criticize a lot of centers that play in EuroLeague as being "totally unplayable in the NBA due to defense", and pretty much all of those players you say that about are better defenders than Jokic is.

Of course, he's way better on offense than all of them.

Jokic is the best center in the world overall, but he's not a good defender and he's always pretty much escaped any real criticism for that.

I've seen some comments here from some people implying he's a similar level of a defender at center as Olajuwon was...

Euroleague has athletic centers now, but there are still complete stiffs like Birutis or even Fall or Booker. Hell, one of the most dominant Euroleague defenders ever, Tavares would easily be one of the worst defensive players in the NBA, there is a reason why he didn't make it, dude does not even pretend to guard anything outside the paint.

[Mirotic12]

Some of these "lesser" teams have looked really good. I think the 24 team format is fine.

This is not the ending Serbia and France hoped for.

The only teams that "didn't belong" were Cyprus, and they just got in because they were putting up the money to host, and the Czechs.

This Czech team was awful, but then again, they have a very long history of being one of the best European countries in basketball, and have had decent results in recent years. So it's not like they don't belong in the mix.

Even Great Britain at least won a game and all of the other teams were generally competitive for the most part. Iceland didn't win a game, but they made the games competitive. Having them in tournaments like this will just keep making them better.

It would actually be very ridiculous if it was anything less than 24 teams. If anything, they might need to add teams.

In recent years, teams like Russia, Italy, and Croatia haven't even qualified.

[Mirotic12]

Yeah, but there are all the people that believe just Porzingis, because he is a well known NBA player, that makes him "better than the 12 greatest EuroLeague players ever combined".

I do not want to contribute to your Euroleague fetish, but it is 2025, having NBA player is not really that impressive anymore. Yes, Porzingis is a star, but like who else on that Latvian team is a star, like some of their dudes truly believe they belong with elite. I said the same thing this past few years, in these past few years, Latvia in my opinion was easily most overachieving team in FIBA. They got good result in C graded world cup and it got over their head I think. Some Euro teams do not even invite NBA players to camp these days, your second leading scorer just signed with Neptūnas Klaipėda, like hello... The reality check was needed I think.

People that only follow NBA, a lot of them have these attitudes. Just think in these forums, where we have plenty of people saying that NCAA and G League are better than EuroLeague. Whenever this is pointed out, people argue that's not true and any knowledgeable fans know that, and no one is saying that here.

But they do. It comes up all the time in draft threads, in FIBA threads, in Team USA threads, in EuroLeague threads, in those FIBA Intercontinental Cup threads - a lot of people that only watch NBA, or NBA and NCAA, really believe this.

Just look at social media, many NBA fans in social media believe it. You even see things like high school in USA is better than EuroLeague.

And it's not just Americans. It's people from all over the world, that only watch the NBA and nothing else - a lot of them believe this.

I am sure this same kind of ridiculous nonsense mindset exists for plenty of Latvian fans, especially ones that might only watch the NBA because of Porzingis, and don't follow any European basketball, like the EuroLeague.

[knicksfan974]

You need to have the best players on the roster at this level if you wish to fight for medals. France without Wemby, Gobert, Sarr, Lessort, Poirier, Reynard, Fournier realistically should have problems with big teams like Georgia, and they did. This Eurobasket seemed to be an afterthought for the French basketball federation, I guess their sights are already set at the 2028 Olympics.

[LuDux1]

Yeah, but there are all the people that believe just Porzingis, because he is a well known NBA player, that makes him "better than the 12 greatest EuroLeague players ever combined".

I do not want to contribute to your Euroleague fetish, but it is 2025, having NBA player is not really that impressive anymore. Yes, Porzingis is a star, but like who else on that Latvian team is a star, like some of their dudes truly believe they belong with elite. I said the same thing this past few years, in these past few years, Latvia in my opinion was easily most overachieving team in FIBA. They got good result in C graded world cup and it got over their head I think. Some Euro teams do not even invite NBA players to camp these days, your second leading scorer just signed with Neptūnas Klaipėda, like hello... The reality check was needed I think.

I'm not 100% in love with your tone here

[Mirotic12]

Some people are biased towards Jokic and excuse anything he does, but he has good defensive qualities, he always among leaders in steals and defections and he is smart positional defender. Guys like Jonas or Vucevic are horrible defenders, Jokic is clearly not at that level, he is not rim protector and he is not switchy, I mean that can be death sentence at NBA level, but thing is, even at that he is definitely not among worst.

True, he's most certainly nothing as bad as someone like Vucevic. The only Euro bigs worse on defense than Vucevic are guys like Bargnani.

However, you criticize a lot of centers that play in EuroLeague as being "totally unplayable in the NBA due to defense", and pretty much all of those players you say that about are better defenders than Jokic is.

Of course, he's way better on offense than all of them.

Jokic is the best center in the world overall, but he's not a good defender and he's always pretty much escaped any real criticism for that.

I've seen some comments here from some people implying he's a similar level of a defender at center as Olajuwon was...

Euroleague has athletic centers now, but there are still complete stiffs like Birutis or even Fall or Booker. Hell, one of the most dominant Euroleague defenders ever, Tavares would easily be one of the worst defensive players in the NBA, there is a reason why he didn't make it, dude does not even pretend to guard anything outside the paint.

I'm not talking about huge prodding giants from old school style eras like Tavares or Boban. Tavares couldn't play in EuroLeague if there was a defensive 3 seconds rule, and Boban can't even with it.

But there are other centers in EuroLeague that are often deemed as unplayable in NBA, that are better on defense than Jokic and way better than Vucevic or Valanciunas.

I should clarify that I don't mind Jokic's defense. He puts in effort, he's a smart defender, and he's a huge, strong body that takes up space, he usually controls the boards, and his offense usually makes up for his defense. But not when teams properly target him.