Trade Talk (Part 17): Early Offseason Planning

[KGdaBom]

To Pacers: Jalen Johnson/Bufkin

To Hawks: Randle/DDV/Pacers 1st (as least one)

To Wolves: Nembhard/Toppin

Gobert/Reid/Beringer
Reid/Toppin/McDaniels
McDaniels/Edwards/Miller
Edwards/Nembhard/TSJ
Nembhard/Conley/Dilly
Plus have near 11M TPE or room for exception level player.

Wolveswin I'm sorry as it seems like I'm always shooting down your trade proposals. Maybe I overvalue the players we have now. I personally prefer DDV to Nembhard and greatly prefer Randle to Toppin.

We ALL over value ‘our’ players. I mean, simple exercise, take a Wolves player you feel has X value and go to another team’s board and offer for a player you see as equal value. Sit back and watch the fireworks.

It’s why the Hawks and Pistons make so much sense - they are win-now teams hungry to be relevant in wide open East. And Randle is an awesome win-now piece…in which Wolves just so happen to have depth. Trade from a position of strength to improve a weakness.

Is Nembhard more of a PG than DDV? Yes. Is losing Randle and DDV for Nembhard and Toppin a reasonable price to pay to improve PG? No, No a million times no. It changes a strength to a weakness at PF. It vacates the volume 3 point shooter role that DDV fills. It vacates the #2 scorer role that Randle fills. Nembhard is a career 33% 3 point shooter who shot 29% last year.

[Wolveswin]

Wolveswin I'm sorry as it seems like I'm always shooting down your trade proposals. Maybe I overvalue the players we have now. I personally prefer DDV to Nembhard and greatly prefer Randle to Toppin.

We ALL over value ‘our’ players. I mean, simple exercise, take a Wolves player you feel has X value and go to another team’s board and offer for a player you see as equal value. Sit back and watch the fireworks.

It’s why the Hawks and Pistons make so much sense - they are win-now teams hungry to be relevant in wide open East. And Randle is an awesome win-now piece…in which Wolves just so happen to have depth. Trade from a position of strength to improve a weakness.

Is Nembhard more of a PG than DDV? Yes. Is losing Randle and DDV for Nembhard and Toppin a reasonable price to pay to improve PG? No, No a million times no. It changes a strength to a weakness at PF. It vacates the volume 3 point shooter role that DDV fills. It vacates the #2 scorer role that Randle fills. Nembhard is a career 33% 3 point shooter who shot 29% last year.

Just to get you out of the nest, go to Pacers board and ask how much more value Pacers would spend to turn Toppin into Randle. Wolves are stepping back from Randle to upgrade to Nembhard next to Edwards.

And we have been over this away too many times - is Nembhard perfect player? Nope. Wolves cannot afford perfect and perfect isn’t available in trade. You need to grade on a curve. And Wolves need to give to get. With no picks to spend, Wolves use players.

[Wolveswin]

Lays a monster. This one actually makes a lot more sense than I thought it would.

Atl IN: Rudy, DDV, RD, Keshad Johnson
Atl OUT: Young, Okongwu, Djurisic

Mia IN: Randle and Okongwu
Mia OUT: Bam and Keshad Johnson

MN IN: Young, Bam, and Djurisic
MN OUT: Randle, Rudy, DDV, RD

Young/Ant/Jaden/Naz/Bam
Mike/TSJ/JB

Both these teams - outside of Wolves board - laugh offers off table.

Bam > Randle and Okongwu doesn’t come close to closing gap.

Atlanta would think that is 4-5 1sts short for Trae.

And Hawks just cut Wolves out. Trae/Okongwu for Bam plus is start of a good trade.

[KGdaBom]

We ALL over value ‘our’ players. I mean, simple exercise, take a Wolves player you feel has X value and go to another team’s board and offer for a player you see as equal value. Sit back and watch the fireworks.

It’s why the Hawks and Pistons make so much sense - they are win-now teams hungry to be relevant in wide open East. And Randle is an awesome win-now piece…in which Wolves just so happen to have depth. Trade from a position of strength to improve a weakness.

Is Nembhard more of a PG than DDV? Yes. Is losing Randle and DDV for Nembhard and Toppin a reasonable price to pay to improve PG? No, No a million times no. It changes a strength to a weakness at PF. It vacates the volume 3 point shooter role that DDV fills. It vacates the #2 scorer role that Randle fills. Nembhard is a career 33% 3 point shooter who shot 29% last year.

Just to get you out of the nest, go to Pacers board and ask how much more value Pacers would spend to turn Toppin into Randle. Wolves are stepping back from Randle to upgrade to Nembhard next to Edwards.

And we have been over this away too many times - is Nembhard perfect player? Nope. Wolves cannot afford perfect and perfect isn’t available in trade. You need to grade on a curve. And Wolves need to give to get. With no picks to spend, Wolves use players.

DDV is better than Nembhard by himself.

[cmoss84]

Lays a monster. This one actually makes a lot more sense than I thought it would.

Atl IN: Rudy, DDV, RD, Keshad Johnson
Atl OUT: Young, Okongwu, Djurisic

Mia IN: Randle and Okongwu
Mia OUT: Bam and Keshad Johnson

MN IN: Young, Bam, and Djurisic
MN OUT: Randle, Rudy, DDV, RD

Young/Ant/Jaden/Naz/Bam
Mike/TSJ/JB

Both these teams - outside of Wolves board - laugh offers off table.

Bam > Randle and Okongwu doesn’t come close to closing gap.

Atlanta would think that is 4-5 1sts short for Trae.

And Hawks just cut Wolves out. Trae/Okongwu for Bam plus is start of a good trade.

So Trae Young is worth way more than Rudy, DDV, and RD combined?

[Shaka_Zulu]

Is Nembhard more of a PG than DDV? Yes. Is losing Randle and DDV for Nembhard and Toppin a reasonable price to pay to improve PG? No, No a million times no. It changes a strength to a weakness at PF. It vacates the volume 3 point shooter role that DDV fills. It vacates the #2 scorer role that Randle fills. Nembhard is a career 33% 3 point shooter who shot 29% last year.

Just to get you out of the nest, go to Pacers board and ask how much more value Pacers would spend to turn Toppin into Randle. Wolves are stepping back from Randle to upgrade to Nembhard next to Edwards.

And we have been over this away too many times - is Nembhard perfect player? Nope. Wolves cannot afford perfect and perfect isn’t available in trade. You need to grade on a curve. And Wolves need to give to get. With no picks to spend, Wolves use players.

DDV is better than Nembhard by himself.

No he is not, Nembhard had a significant increase in his overall level as a player past season. Both as defender (slowed down Shai well few games) all around combo guard and PG, I would take him over DDV. With the big ragu getting the advantage in shooting.

[KGdaBom]

Just to get you out of the nest, go to Pacers board and ask how much more value Pacers would spend to turn Toppin into Randle. Wolves are stepping back from Randle to upgrade to Nembhard next to Edwards.

And we have been over this away too many times - is Nembhard perfect player? Nope. Wolves cannot afford perfect and perfect isn’t available in trade. You need to grade on a curve. And Wolves need to give to get. With no picks to spend, Wolves use players.

DDV is better than Nembhard by himself.

No he is not, Nembhard had a significant increase in his overall level as a player past season. Both as defender (slowed down Shai well few games) all around combo guard and PG, I would take him over DDV. With the big ragu getting the advantage in shooting.

I think DDV is better. Nembhard is a bad 3 point shooter. DDV is very good. Close call maybe. Wolveswin had us throwing in Randle on the deal.

[Klomp]

Nembhard is a very difficult player to target, because IND will value him more than most teams. He's a lot like a Jaden McDaniels for us. And I think it's hard to even out a trade value when you're dealing with such differing values and perceptions.

[Shaka_Zulu]

Toppin and Randle portion of it severely lopsided and wasn't worth discussing.


But what I seen from Nembhard past year, especially any time Halliburton went down, makes it an easy yes for me to say Nembhard is currently better then DDV. Especially in PG starved team like ours. He is multifaceted guard (elite defense and emerging 3 level scorer). Exactly what we need in terms of the non star type guards. Him or Derrick White.

I would go as far as say he is one of the most slept on and by far the most underrated players in the league. He is the kind that's just another limelight breakout season away from potential all-star appearance.



Was incredibly impressed with his season/playoffs, the level of hustle and all around dogged skill he plays with.


https://youtu.be/wScTW8PEzr0?si=v7-Z5mx1gHOGtprW




I would give DDV and a pick for him.



But not Randle, it would take more then Toppin to make that trade more adequate.

[Klomp]

But what I seen from Nembhard past year, especially any time Halliburton went down, makes it an easy yes for me to say Nembhard is currently better then DDV. Especially in PG starved team like ours. He is multifaceted guard (elite defense and emerging 3 level scorer). Exactly what we need in terms of the non star type guards. Him or Derrick White.

This is correct assessment about the type of guard that we should target. Lonzo Ball is another who fits the mold. TJ McConnell. Payton Pritchard. I think this is what some are trying to target in Dyson Daniels as well. In ways, it is what made Kyle Anderson so effective here in his role.

But the trade value has to be correct, which is what makes trade constructions so difficult. You don't trade your No. 2 option for a connective role player, probably not even if that player were LeBron James.

[Wolveswin]

Is Nembhard more of a PG than DDV? Yes. Is losing Randle and DDV for Nembhard and Toppin a reasonable price to pay to improve PG? No, No a million times no. It changes a strength to a weakness at PF. It vacates the volume 3 point shooter role that DDV fills. It vacates the #2 scorer role that Randle fills. Nembhard is a career 33% 3 point shooter who shot 29% last year.

Just to get you out of the nest, go to Pacers board and ask how much more value Pacers would spend to turn Toppin into Randle. Wolves are stepping back from Randle to upgrade to Nembhard next to Edwards.

And we have been over this away too many times - is Nembhard perfect player? Nope. Wolves cannot afford perfect and perfect isn’t available in trade. You need to grade on a curve. And Wolves need to give to get. With no picks to spend, Wolves use players.

DDV is better than Nembhard by himself.

That is a loss of credibility statement.

[Wolveswin]

Toppin and Randle portion of it severely lopsided and wasn't worth discussing.


But what I seen from Nembhard past year, especially any time Halliburton went down, makes it an easy yes for me to say Nembhard is currently better then DDV. Especially in PG starved team like ours. He is multifaceted guard (elite defense and emerging 3 level scorer). Exactly what we need in terms of the non star type guards. Him or Derrick White.

I would go as far as say he is one of the most slept on and by far the most underrated players in the league. He is the kind that's just another limelight breakout season away from potential all-star appearance.



Was incredibly impressed with his season/playoffs, the level of hustle and all around dogged skill he plays with.


https://youtu.be/wScTW8PEzr0?si=v7-Z5mx1gHOGtprW




I would give DDV and a pick for him.



But not Randle, it would take more then Toppin to make that trade more adequate.

Wolves don’t have a pick to trade.

Nembhard > DDV

Randle > Toppin

That is the delta worth discussing.

[KGdaBom]

Toppin and Randle portion of it severely lopsided and wasn't worth discussing.


But what I seen from Nembhard past year, especially any time Halliburton went down, makes it an easy yes for me to say Nembhard is currently better then DDV. Especially in PG starved team like ours. He is multifaceted guard (elite defense and emerging 3 level scorer). Exactly what we need in terms of the non star type guards. Him or Derrick White.

I would go as far as say he is one of the most slept on and by far the most underrated players in the league. He is the kind that's just another limelight breakout season away from potential all-star appearance.



Was incredibly impressed with his season/playoffs, the level of hustle and all around dogged skill he plays with.


https://youtu.be/wScTW8PEzr0?si=v7-Z5mx1gHOGtprW




I would give DDV and a pick for him.



But not Randle, it would take more then Toppin to make that trade more adequate.

Wolves don’t have a pick to trade.

Nembhard > DDV

Randle > Toppin

That is the delta worth discussing.

Not even in the realm of discussion. Randle is a star. Freaking Nembhard????????????????

[KGdaBom]

Just to get you out of the nest, go to Pacers board and ask how much more value Pacers would spend to turn Toppin into Randle. Wolves are stepping back from Randle to upgrade to Nembhard next to Edwards.

And we have been over this away too many times - is Nembhard perfect player? Nope. Wolves cannot afford perfect and perfect isn’t available in trade. You need to grade on a curve. And Wolves need to give to get. With no picks to spend, Wolves use players.

DDV is better than Nembhard by himself.

That is a loss of credibility statement.

Nembhard/Numbnutz whatever. DDV is one of the best volume three point shooters in the NBA. Nembhard is a backup on most good teams. He can't shoot at all. I don't necessarily agree but I'll for sake of argument say Nembhard would help us more than DDV.
Nembhard>DDV
Randle>>>>Toppin

Analysis says... Don't make the trade.

[KGdaBom]

More on DDV vs Nembhard
Last years top 100 ranking from ESPN actually had DDV over Jaden McDaniels. 75-77. Nembhard not on the list. I wonder if Nembhard will make the top 100 this year.
75. Donte DiVincenzo, G, Minnesota Timberwolves
2023 NBA Rank: NR

A huge part of the Knicks' attack last season, DiVincenzo drilled a whopping 283 triples in 2023-24 -- third most in the NBA and nearly double the number he canned the season before, when he worked alongside Stephen Curry in Golden State. The 27-year-old might still have a decent amount of upside, too. He averaged nearly 23 points in New York's seven-game Eastern Conference semifinal series. Expect DiVincenzo to be a key contributor with the Wolves, who will fully embrace his shooting ability now that Karl-Anthony Towns is a Knick. -- Herring

[frankenwolf]

If Josh Giddey picks up his Qualifying-Offer, what would you all be willing to add to Mike Conley to make a deal happen?

Yeah.

We have no PG of the future. Rob def isn't it, back up quality at best.

Giddey is bad on defense but we'll have an actual PG.

Wow, Note, giving up on the 8th round pick after one year of very little play. That is disappointing.

[KGdaBom]

If Josh Giddey picks up his Qualifying-Offer, what would you all be willing to add to Mike Conley to make a deal happen?

Yeah.

We have no PG of the future. Rob def isn't it, back up quality at best.

Giddey is bad on defense but we'll have an actual PG.

Wow, Note, giving up on the 8th round pick after one year of very little play. That is disappointing.

I still feel that Rob can definitely be it.

[BlacJacMac]

Nembhard is an absolute beast in the postseason.

40 Playoff Games. 51/47/79, Almost a 5/1 AST/TO ratio.

7 Playoff series, has never shot below 42% from 3 in any of them.

Great size for a PG, can defend multiple positions.

DDV is a terrific specialist, but not nearly as valuable.

[KGdaBom]

Nembhard is an absolute beast in the postseason.

40 Playoff Games. 51/47/79, Almost a 5/1 AST/TO ratio.

7 Playoff series, has never shot below 42% from 3 in any of them.

Great size for a PG, can defend multiple positions.

DDV is a terrific specialist, but not nearly as valuable.

I'll go by Nembhard's career 3% of 33. I'm not a believer of players becoming playoff superstars that aren't regular seasons stars.

[BlacJacMac]

Nembhard is an absolute beast in the postseason.

40 Playoff Games. 51/47/79, Almost a 5/1 AST/TO ratio.

7 Playoff series, has never shot below 42% from 3 in any of them.

Great size for a PG, can defend multiple positions.

DDV is a terrific specialist, but not nearly as valuable.

I'll go by Nembhard's career 3% of 33. I'm not a believer of players becoming playoff superstars that aren't regular seasons stars.

He's never not done it. Some guys just thrive on the biggest stage. Others disappear.

Indy is a much better team on offense and defense during the regular season with him on the floor. And he's proven to be effective playing PG or playing next to a PG.