The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #5 Dog Days

[Sunsdeuce]

Isn't that mostly due to the fact that the rockets had zero perimeter threads outside of Green last year?

I think the potential positive take away could be that on Phoenix, defenses can't target green the way they did in Houston due to having Booker on the floor as well - so perhaps his efficiency will improve.

Absolutely man. Just as you pointed out, the Rockets really har no other offensive threats to draw defensive pressure from Green.

So you're likely very right that in this much different environment with more legitimate offensive threats throughout our roster, not only should Green be afforded more space to work with, but his efficiency should also dramatically improve.

Because defenses won't be able to hone in on him solely as much as they could with Houston's roster. It's an excellent point you make to his possibly increasing his efficiency, but also his percieved trade value as a byproduct too!

Where's the evidence for this? Rockets were 13th on offense last year vs 10th for us. The Rockets were better with Green off the floor.

I’m gonna have to take your side on this. The Rockets actually had more talent AND younger/more athletic talent surrounding Green. Defenses will be able to hone in more on Green now than they could with the Rockets. Like it or not, the Suns severely lack talent this year. We have no one else who can get to the basket to force the defense to back off Green. Booker is not a cutter/slasher/rim runner. Booker is a pull up mid range player. Booker isn’t going to pull defenses off because if that were the case we would have won 60 plus games last year with KD! Booker DID NOT pull defenses off KD. So the so called Booker effect does not exist and last year is evidence.

The bottomline is Green is in a NEW environment, not a better environment. It’s really up to Green and Green alone to take his game to the next level. In a decade of playing in the NBA, Booker has never made another player better. That’s a fact! He’s had other players make him better! Booker isn’t a player to bring out the best in the players around him, it’s not Booker style nor ability.

I look forward to see Green push himself to the next level! This is a fresh start (not necessarily a better start) and I’m really interested to see what he can do. I’m only looking forward to seeing games because of the new faces, NOT because this team will be good. Ishbia has killed the positive vibes to this team to I’m relegated to finding interest in watching new faces. Make no mistake, I’m not excited about this team at all! It’s more of an interest to see these new faces. This team is going to be bad, make no mistake. We are prob a decade away from being competitive again and I accept that. But hopefully there is a single player on this team that makes this team enjoyable to watch (Booker ain’t it).

[Ghost of Kleine]

Isn't that mostly due to the fact that the rockets had zero perimeter threads outside of Green last year?

I think the potential positive take away could be that on Phoenix, defenses can't target green the way they did in Houston due to having Booker on the floor as well - so perhaps his efficiency will improve.

Absolutely man. Just as you pointed out, the Rockets really har no other offensive threats to draw defensive pressure from Green.

So you're likely very right that in this much different environment with more legitimate offensive threats throughout our roster, not only should Green be afforded more space to work with, but his efficiency should also dramatically improve.

Because defenses won't be able to hone in on him solely as much as they could with Houston's roster. It's an excellent point you make to his possibly increasing his efficiency, but also his percieved trade value as a byproduct too!

Where's the evidence for this? Rockets were 13th on offense last year vs 10th for us. The Rockets were better with Green off the floor.

While the Houston Rockets improved significantly in 2024–2025, they did not finish with a top-four offense. According to Basketball-Reference, their offensive rating ranked 13th in the NBA.

The misconception may have come from their overall 52-30 record, which earned them the second seed in the Western Conference, but was driven primarily by an elite defense that ranked 4th in the league. 

However, the Rockets did have a remarkably successful regular season campaign, and their offensive success was built on two key factors:

An aggressive offensive rebounding strategy and the breakout season of their young core. 

- Offensive rebounding dominance:

The Rockets' offense was fueled by a relentless approach to crashing the glass, compensating for their relatively average offensive talent. 

- First in the league:

Houston finished the 2024–2025 season first in the NBA with an offensive rebounding percentage of 36.3%.

- More possessions: 

This aggressive rebounding translated into more possessions and second-chance opportunities, which effectively masked their weaknesses in half-court execution.

- Adding size:

 The mid-season acquisition of Steven Adams, who formed a dominant "double big" lineup with Alperen Sengun, further bolstered their rebounding prowess. 

-Their young core players posting career-best scoring seasons:  

- Jalen Green:

 As the team's leading scorer, Green averaged 21.0 points per game and showcased significant growth during the regular season.

- Alperen Sengun: 

A top-tier playmaker from the center position, Sengun continued his rapid development, averaging 19.1 points, 10.3 rebounds, and 4.9 assists per game.

Amen Thompson: 

In a breakout campaign, the lottery pick provided athleticism and playmaking, averaging 14.1 points, 8.2 rebounds, and 3.8 assists. 

- Offensive limitations:

Despite their success, the Rockets' offense had notable limitations that kept it from reaching the league's top tier. 

- Poor half-court efficiency: 

The team ranked just 22nd in half-court scoring efficiency and struggled to generate quality shots, especially late in games. This was a major issue in their first-round playoff series loss to the Golden State Warriors.

- Isolation struggles: 

Analysts pointed to the team's overreliance on isolation plays as a significant offensive weakness.

- Inconsistent three-point shooting: 

As a team, Houston finished in the bottom 10 in three-point percentage for the season. Key players like Jalen Green and Fred VanVleet shot just 35.4% and 34.5% from deep, respectively. 

So basically, my point in my response to Puddles was that their offense obviously wasn't predicated upon elite shooting/ floor spacing as they still finished around 22nd in half court scoring efficiency and also bottom 10 in 3 point shooting percentage with a league average of 35.4% between their two best shooters in Van Vleet and J Green. This is why Green had to focus so much his isolation scoring to generate offense.

They simply didn't have the shooters that we had. And their top 13 offensive ranking is misleading due to it being predicated upon their elite offensive rebounding and elite athleticism helping boost their scoring.

But I still believe we had much better floor spacing shooters than they had and still have some great cumulative floor spacing options by comparison in Booker, Brooks, Allen, O'neale, Brea, etc. And that will obviously flex the defense and allow him much better spacing.

Their really wasn't any legitimate high level shooting threats to create space for him in Houston last season. Much less efficient shooters to draw defenders away for spacing. That's my point, and their top 13 offense really has nothing to do with floor spacing or shooting efficiency as they didn't really have shooters. Again, why they ranked 22nd in half court scoring efficiency and bottom 10 in 3 PT shooting.

Our roster composition was vastly different and built on entirely different premises. So the comparison (offensively) is an apples to Oranges comparison unfortunately.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Isn't that mostly due to the fact that the rockets had zero perimeter threads outside of Green last year?

I think the potential positive take away could be that on Phoenix, defenses can't target green the way they did in Houston due to having Booker on the floor as well - so perhaps his efficiency will improve.

Absolutely man. Just as you pointed out, the Rockets really har no other offensive threats to draw defensive pressure from Green.

So you're likely very right that in this much different environment with more legitimate offensive threats throughout our roster, not only should Green be afforded more space to work with, but his efficiency should also dramatically improve.

Because defenses won't be able to hone in on him solely as much as they could with Houston's roster. It's an excellent point you make to his possibly increasing his efficiency, but also his percieved trade value as a byproduct too!

Very interesting and valid observations. I do not necessarily disagree because of Green's abilities and the fact that I haven't watched Houston to determine the defensive attention he received. He was the 2d highest scorer, but If I were the opposing coach Sengun would be the primary defensive concern. As far as his three point shooting I have further doubts. He made 2.5 on 7.4 attempts (33.2%). VanVleet made 3.1 on 8 attempts (38.7%). Other starters were more efficient also, though shooting fewer. Jabari Smith made 1.8 on 5 attempts (36.3%) and Brooks 1.8 on 5.1 attempts (35.9%).

In spite of the above, I think he will be a valuable offensive weapon. I also agree Book drawing substantial defensive attention will help. I just have no way of knowing how much the defensive attention he received affected efficiency. I'm also wondering if that caused his -4.7 on/off court (5th of their starters) and pretty much break even +0.1 own vs. opponent production (4th of their starters). Probably more important, however, he is talented and can score points, which we will need, regardless of efficiency.

Great and very salient points made man. My whole position/ perspective is simply that in our specific environment and within our roster construction, our plethora of much better and obviously more efficient shooters will as a byproduct, afford J Green more spacing because opposing defenses won't be as eager to leave Booker, Brooks, Allen, O'neale and Brea open so they can collapse and double onto Green.

And obviously, in Houston, they simply didn't have the same caliber of shooters/ floor spacers as we'll feature to afford him such spacing.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Miikka Muurinen a 6’10”, 5-star recruit just dropped 7 clutch 4Q points to lift Finland over Serbia — one of the biggest upsets in EuroBasket history
Still only in high school (Arizona) with offers from Duke, Kentucky, UNC, Arkansas & more.

oh look another Airzona prospect comes into mind

I really like that you mentioned him man! I've watched a bit of him and thought about sharing some tape on him as I think he could be a budget version of Markannen as a very skilled, fluid, athletic 6'11 Finnish Big ( power forward) HOWEVER, I didn't mention him yet because I think he'll end up out of our range as a first round pick ( mid- late 20s') of the 26' draft.

And we unfortunately just don't have any ammo to move up or acquire a more favorable draft position any time soon. But ye is very intruiging. And along the lines of what we have in CJ Huntley, but much more fluid and skilled. Also plays with an edginess/ confidence to his game too.

[garrick]

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/suns-news/89093/vasilije-micic-says-kevin-durant-was-surprised-at-how-little-he-was-used-in-phoenix?fbclid=IwY2xjawMsXqJleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHoX04r7ohAORgsimw0IU5d5Z98Jx827sew_4NV4yWZwqz1E_s081b0DaBFj0_aem_yBeFtuweXIHtWWm07MPqUQ

He’s surprised at how little he was used in Phoenix as an example, considering what he’s doing. KD often has that uncomfortable body language, but he’s actually a cool guy. That’s just his protection, he has his reasons for being that way, but he’s very open to conversation. He’s extra intelligent. We used to talk, and his basketball vision is on a completely different level, from understanding to analyzing the opponent,” Micic stated.

We had three 20+ PPG scorers on the team and he's surprised he wasn't used as much? Houston better use him a lot or he'll start pouting and asking to be traded lol

[Ghost of Kleine]

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/suns-news/89093/vasilije-micic-says-kevin-durant-was-surprised-at-how-little-he-was-used-in-phoenix?fbclid=IwY2xjawMsXqJleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHoX04r7ohAORgsimw0IU5d5Z98Jx827sew_4NV4yWZwqz1E_s081b0DaBFj0_aem_yBeFtuweXIHtWWm07MPqUQ

He’s surprised at how little he was used in Phoenix as an example, considering what he’s doing. KD often has that uncomfortable body language, but he’s actually a cool guy. That’s just his protection, he has his reasons for being that way, but he’s very open to conversation. He’s extra intelligent. We used to talk, and his basketball vision is on a completely different level, from understanding to analyzing the opponent,” Micic stated.

We had three 20+ PPG scorers on the team and he's surprised he wasn't used as much? Houston better use him a lot or he'll start pouting and asking to be traded lol

For sure I think that there's a small modicum of pettiness on KDs' part in this comment/ perspective from him. But I also think the lion's share of the blame falls on Budenholzers' inability to create a proper system and balance to run an offense through him,

And that might be what he's speaking to in this comment? In that they usually just looked to give him the ball and tell him to bail us out rather than incorporate a more functional system?

Now, I'm not excusing KDs' comments here from accountability, but believe the context is more focused on Budenholzers' failures and disinterest/ disengagement as a coach to adapt and create a workable system around our big three aside from predictable repetitive isolation plays??

[Saberestar]

Kellan Olson:

Suns announce media day will be on Sept. 24, two weeks from tomorrow.

They will be ahead of schedule a bit with training camp and preseason due to a preseason trip to China.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[lilfishi22]

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It might feel like a loophole, but honestly, I don’t see anything particularly wrong with it. One of the major benefits of joining a franchise like the Knicks or Lakers is the sheer visibility and access to a much larger markets, which could exponentially boosts off-court earning potential from endorsements to marketing tie‑ins etc. Setting state taxes aside and assuming identical NBA salaries, the potential endorsement gap between an allstar level player in Charlotte vs NY would probably be substantial.

MAYBE what might illegal in this instance would be the level involvement of the team in the deal between the player and local business. If the local business got a cheque for $150k to fund the endorsement deal (similar to the Kawhi/Balmer deal) then yeah that's a big no no but if it's an introduction and some trilateral meetings....I don't see a huge issue there. Unless trilateral meetings aren't legal in the CBA, I'm not sure on that front.

I think it would also be dependent on the deal and whether it was fair market value. The Kawhi deal was illegal because it explicitly says he can do nothing and still earn the $48m which clearly isn't fair market value.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[sunsbg]

Even bright side has turned into dark side these days.

https://www.brightsideofthesun.com/suns-analysis/89107/phoenix-suns-2025-26-season-worst-roster-construction-jalen-green-devin-booker-disaster