Bears 12.0

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

The silver lining in all of this is (IMO), is that we do have a good team, aside from the QB. Yes, we need some more work on both lines, but we aren't that far away talent wise. We can find another QB- look at Geno Smith or Sam Darnold or Baker Mayfield, how well they've done when people thought they were washed up. And maybe it's even Bagent. But it's got be someone other than Caleb if he continues to play this poorly. He's holding the team back.

Come on, we are 1 game into the season, he had some bumps but jesus we have had way worse from our QB's. Just give it a couple more games at least, sheesh. There's some pretty good QB's that had some worse games this week (don't ask me to list them). It was a TEAM loss.

[dougthonus]

Caleb’s game was above league average, he was 13th in QBR. 270 total yards, 2 touchdowns and no turnovers.

He had some atrocious moments in the 2nd and 3rd quarter, but the game as a whole was perfectly fine. We just harp on the negatives of the QB in a loss because it’s easy.

If you watched that game and thought Caleb Williams was "average" fair enough. I thought he was hot garbage. Maybe my definition of average is too high or maybe week 1 is skewed downward based on everyone still finding their rhythm.

Same problems seemed repeatedly out there to me:
1: Did not get ball out on time
2: Did not seem to make reads on time
3: Inaccurate passes on short balls that with accurate passes would have led to much larger gains

The numbers are all okay-ish, but watching the sausage being made left me feeling a lot worse than the numbers.

Not to say he won't be better next game or that he can't be the guy, but I would evaluate this game as very poor.

[panthermark]

It’s not over for Caleb, but it’s frustrating. I found the post from the guy who told us we shouldn’t be allowed to root for Caleb.

Chicago-Bull-E wrote:
It’s funny watching Love, a borderline top 10 QB, shred a top 10 defense without his number 1 receiver, and then think “who needs to upgrade a bottom 10 QB, we need more depth and more average players!”

Y’all shouldn’t be allowed to root for Caleb Williams. Switch teams to wherever Justin goes after you’re done rooting for Mitch Trubisky.

So you think holding on to Mitch or Justin was the move?

I was a keep JF1/haul guy.

It wasn't just holding on to JF1. I know he has his limitations. It was holding onto him AND getting a bunch of assets. DJ Moore trade part II.

I understand the logic for trading him and all of that (contract wise), but a bunch of upgrades and 18 games later, there is only a total of 5 wins to show for it. All we can do at this point is wait and hope, but it sure is frustrating because the initial concern with CW was if he could play ON schedule. What we didn't know was how inaccurate he was, especially deep.

But some of this falls on Poles and BJ as well.
Take the 3 points early on.
Make a 50 yard FG at home in perfect weather.
Win game by 3 that was lost by 3.

An how in the world are we still in search of the type of RB that Poles let walk out the door over the smallest amount?

[Dresden]

The silver lining in all of this is (IMO), is that we do have a good team, aside from the QB. Yes, we need some more work on both lines, but we aren't that far away talent wise. We can find another QB- look at Geno Smith or Sam Darnold or Baker Mayfield, how well they've done when people thought they were washed up. And maybe it's even Bagent. But it's got be someone other than Caleb if he continues to play this poorly. He's holding the team back.

Come on, we are 1 game into the season, he had some bumps but jesus we have had way worse from our QB's. Just give it a couple more games at least, sheesh. There's some pretty good QB's that had some worse games this week (don't ask me to list them). It was a TEAM loss.

That's why I said "if he continues to play this poorly". He has to make some real progress, and look at least like an average NFL QB. He was supposed to be a can't miss prospect. He needs to start showing something.

[Chicago-Bull-E]

Caleb’s game was above league average, he was 13th in QBR. 270 total yards, 2 touchdowns and no turnovers.

He had some atrocious moments in the 2nd and 3rd quarter, but the game as a whole was perfectly fine. We just harp on the negatives of the QB in a loss because it’s easy.

If you watched that game and thought Caleb Williams was "average" fair enough. I thought he was hot garbage. Maybe my definition of average is too high or maybe week 1 is skewed downward based on everyone still finding their rhythm.

Same problems seemed repeatedly out there to me:
1: Did not get ball out on time
2: Did not seem to make reads on time
3: Inaccurate passes on short balls that with accurate passes would have led to much larger gains

The numbers are all okay-ish, but watching the sausage being made left me feeling a lot worse than the numbers.

Not to say he won't be better next game or that he can't be the guy, but I would evaluate this game as very poor.

I mean, what other NFL games did you watch?

What performances of these guys did you like better? Ward, Nix, Russell, Tua, Murray, Rattler, Maye, Lawrence, Young, Burrow, Flacco, Stroud, Darnold, Dak.

That’s 14 guys that don’t really have a case.

I get he wasn’t a top 5 guy, top 10 guy. But the hyperbole is really far off.

I read he had the 2nd highest PFF grade on the team. If true, there is a lot of ESPN first take level analysis here.

[Susan]

It’s not over for Caleb, but it’s frustrating. I found the post from the guy who told us we shouldn’t be allowed to root for Caleb.

I bought two Jets jerseys last week, personally I'm just not here for rooting for Black Matt Millen and Johnny Manziel's darker cousin. I want them to do well but I just see a poorly configured roster with all hype and no substance and it's a painful waste of time.

The team will be better with Bagent, Caleb just creates too many issues for himself.

Well we don't need Jets fans in here trolling us

You can root for Poles when he takes another WR and a kicker way too early, I'll just continue to speak my mind about how poorly the roster is constructed and how alarming the QBs play and behavior is to me.

You're either a disgruntled or delusional Bears fan at this point.

[patryk7754]

I think all of the problems Williams has steams from having too much anxiety in the pocket. Backpedals when he should step up. Steps up when he should be backpedaling of left to right. Or just jittery feet for no reason. This leads to hesitation to throw the ball and being way too risk averse. Or inaccurate throws. We saw it last season. Flashed way too much yesterday. Until it slows down for him, I think it’s safe to expect all these peaks and valleys in his play from drive to drive. The really good news though, Johnson isn’t going to put him in a position that magnifies his faults. The offense didn’t look too complicated yesterday. Offensively, it looks like our main issues are Caleb’s anxiety and presnap issues as a whole. But that should improve as the season goes and and the players get used to Johnson and his offense

Other than the hesitation to throw from the pocket, on top of it is he can’t move and stay connected to receivers. When he stays in the pocket, he doesn’t understand how to slide. He’ll pick a spot to throw, and half the time he’s getting his arm hit on the follow through. Or he’s throwing over a defender in his face. He can’t get himself space for his throws other than ejections from the pocket. Probably why he does it so much. Inability to slide around and stay connected to receivers simultaneously

Right on the nose. And I’d say it’s because he was able to run around like a chicken with its head cut off in college and probably high school with no consequences. And now he has to figure out how to be a great playmaker with just his arm and intelligence instead of just out athlete-ing everyone. All his pocket movement has no rhyme or rhythm to it. That’s why I hated the mahomes comparisons and thought Kyler Murray was a better comp. Everything mahomes does is intentional and Murray often misses the easy play so he runs around hoping to make a spectacular play. That’s where Williams is now. I’m confident he can become a crisp pocket passer because he’s shown the ability to do it, it’s just a matter of consistency.

What was his quote? You need to know when to be a surgeon and when to a magician. He’s still in medical school

[sco]

Caleb’s game was above league average, he was 13th in QBR. 270 total yards, 2 touchdowns and no turnovers.

He had some atrocious moments in the 2nd and 3rd quarter, but the game as a whole was perfectly fine. We just harp on the negatives of the QB in a loss because it’s easy.

If you watched that game and thought Caleb Williams was "average" fair enough. I thought he was hot garbage. Maybe my definition of average is too high or maybe week 1 is skewed downward based on everyone still finding their rhythm.

Same problems seemed repeatedly out there to me:
1: Did not get ball out on time
2: Did not seem to make reads on time
3: Inaccurate passes on short balls that with accurate passes would have led to much larger gains

The numbers are all okay-ish, but watching the sausage being made left me feeling a lot worse than the numbers.

Not to say he won't be better next game or that he can't be the guy, but I would evaluate this game as very poor.

I generally agree. I am still of the mind that last year's fiasco gave him the yips. His confidence is his ability has got to be lower than when he started last season. Putting a rookie QB behind an AWFUL OL last season was a sure recipe for failure. IMO, it's linked to his inability to get comfortable in the pocket this year...he's looking for defenders getting past the OL when he should be looking for open receivers.

That said, I thought, despite some evidence to the contrary, that both the OL and Caleb looked better than last year's flavor of terrible. Caleb, despite the points you correctly made, did seem to get through his progessions more and seemed to have a bit longer before feeling pressure. I also liked him scrambling more...that helps limit pass rushing.

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

I bought two Jets jerseys last week, personally I'm just not here for rooting for Black Matt Millen and Johnny Manziel's darker cousin. I want them to do well but I just see a poorly configured roster with all hype and no substance and it's a painful waste of time.

The team will be better with Bagent, Caleb just creates too many issues for himself.

Well we don't need Jets fans in here trolling us

You can root for Poles when he takes another WR and a kicker way too early, I'll just continue to speak my mind about how poorly the roster is constructed and how alarming the QBs play and behavior is to me.

You're either a disgruntled or delusional Bears fan at this point.

Well I AM a Bears fan what can I say.

[dougthonus]

I mean, what other NFL games did you watch?

What performances of these guys did you like better? Ward, Nix, Russell, Tua, Murray, Rattler, Maye, Lawrence, Young, Burrow, Flacco, Stroud, Darnold, Dak.

That’s 14 guys that don’t really have a case.

I get he wasn’t a top 5 guy, top 10 guy. But the hyperbole is really far off.

I read he had the 2nd highest PFF grade on the team. If true, there is a lot of ESPN first take level analysis here.

I watched Green Bay / Detroit and Jets / Steelers, but my view of average QB is not based on yesterday, it's based on my history of watching football rather than a comparison of what he did on a single day vs what his peers did on a single day.

It was based on what I think an average QB should have done with the opportunities presented to him on this day vs what he did with the opportunities presented to him on this day.

Again, if you disagree, feel free, I'm discussing what I saw and why I feel the way I felt. If you want to just quote PFF grades or QBR or some other stat, go ahead fair enough, but you're not actually disputing any of the comments I made and just quoting numbers that I would be highly skeptical of having any meaningful value whatsoever in week 1, and then passing along insults of "ESPN 1st take analysis".

So again this is what I saw:
1: Not getting the ball out quickly enough
2: Not making reads quickly enough
3: Not delivering accurate passes

He had some good plays for sure, but the overall problems struck me as very much the same as last year. People can have bad games, hope he plays better next game.

[Susan]

rbsdm.com/stats

These are the best advanced metrics and they had Caleb bottom 5 yesterday.

[nitetrain8603]

This is a make or break year for Caleb, that's for sure. I was all for making it an open competition at QB with Bagent- let the best man win. Caleb just doesn't seem to be able to see guys open. I listened to the game on radio, and Kurt Warner said several times "I thought Caleb could have made a throw there (downfield", or "I thought he had a guy open there, but he chose not to take it".

If it's going to go on like this all season, they have to find another QB.

Oh on TV as well. Aikman tried to be a little more subtle about it though. There was a throw in the first he completed and Aikman said something like "There are throws to be made downfield that the defense will show you pre-snap". Also, alluding to Caleb's pre-snap reads.

[nitetrain8603]

That was a frustrating game to watch...
I think the issue with Williams is that if his pre-snap "read" (read - "guess") isn't correct; he doesn't know where to go with the ball as he's not sure where his receivers are supposed to be. That's why he holds onto the ball and then starts running around for his life - he doesn't know what else to do because the reality of the play doesn't match what he thought it was going to be.

Those few times where he stayed in the pocket and delivered a nice, sharp pass on time were those plays where he guessed the defense correctly and knew where to go with the ball. He had some really nice throws sprinkled around a lot of "WTF are you doing?" plays. I suspect that he's never really been properly coached on how to diagnose a defense and that he's gotten by on his immense talent and lesser competition. That won't fly in the NFL.

I think he can learn if he wants it. I just don't know how much tutoring he needs and how quickly he can absorb and apply the info. Perhaps he's going to be like a Geno Smith or a Baker Mayfield - guys who were more athletes than quarterbacks but figured it out over time. Question is how patient are the Bears going to be with Caleb?

The other problem is one that is persisting from year to year - way too many penalties and just stupid plays. Hard to sustain a drive when you're looking at second and third and 20 (or more) yards. That's GOT to get cleaned up.

Minnesota didn't win - the Bears lost. That's been far too common a story over the last couple of years though. The Bears keep figuring out ways to lose.

Funny, with how outspoken his dad is, you would think he would've taught Caleb how to read a defense. I agree, it seems like a guess tbh.

The bigger, pending, issue imo, is the reports of him being hard to coach. That separates the Baker Mayfield's and Josh Rosen's of the world. Him walking away from coaches who are trying to teach him, or hold him accountable, is not great if you're hoping he "gets it".

[Susan]

Well we don't need Jets fans in here trolling us

You can root for Poles when he takes another WR and a kicker way too early, I'll just continue to speak my mind about how poorly the roster is constructed and how alarming the QBs play and behavior is to me.

You're either a disgruntled or delusional Bears fan at this point.

Well I AM a Bears fan what can I say.

I'm sorry it pains you to hear that the team that's lost ELEVEN out of the last twelve games sucks but on the bright side Ryan Poles as far as I can tell is not immortal, so we've got that going for us.

[Chicago-Bull-E]

I mean, what other NFL games did you watch?

What performances of these guys did you like better? Ward, Nix, Russell, Tua, Murray, Rattler, Maye, Lawrence, Young, Burrow, Flacco, Stroud, Darnold, Dak.

That’s 14 guys that don’t really have a case.

I get he wasn’t a top 5 guy, top 10 guy. But the hyperbole is really far off.

I read he had the 2nd highest PFF grade on the team. If true, there is a lot of ESPN first take level analysis here.

I watched Green Bay / Detroit and Jets / Steelers, but my view of average QB is not based on yesterday, it's based on my history of watching football rather than a comparison of what he did on a single day vs what his peers did on a single day.

It was based on what I think an average QB should have done with the opportunities presented to him on this day vs what he did with the opportunities presented to him on this day.

Again, if you disagree, feel free, I'm discussing what I saw and why I feel the way I felt. If you want to just quote PFF grades or QBR or some other stat, go ahead fair enough, but you're not actually disputing any of the comments I made and just quoting numbers that I would be highly skeptical of having any meaningful value whatsoever in week 1, and then passing along insults of "ESPN 1st take analysis".

So again this is what I saw:
1: Not getting the ball out quickly enough
2: Not making reads quickly enough
3: Not delivering accurate passes

He had some good plays for sure, but the overall problems struck me as very much the same as last year. People can have bad games, hope he plays better next game.

Sure. I thought Caleb looked elite in the first quarter and a half. 10 for 10 passing. None of your bullet points really applied here in my opinion. Everything was sharp, quick, and per the game plan. Announcers fawning, game plan was great. Over 4 quarters, he ends as a top 5 QB on the day.

I think in the 2nd and 3rd quarters, his eyes were in the backfield too much. Flores starting mixing blitz packages, throwing him and the line off. Lots of off balance throws leading to accuracy issues.

And then the last drive when he didn’t have time to overthink any of that, he was better.

Some of what you say certainly applies to multiple downs, and some of it doesn’t, leading to the average numbers I’m citing.

I think Ben will show him the plays that were way off, and it’ll be his job to try and extend that 1st quarter success through the entire game.

[NZB2323]

It’s not over for Caleb, but it’s frustrating. I found the post from the guy who told us we shouldn’t be allowed to root for Caleb.

Chicago-Bull-E wrote:
It’s funny watching Love, a borderline top 10 QB, shred a top 10 defense without his number 1 receiver, and then think “who needs to upgrade a bottom 10 QB, we need more depth and more average players!”

Y’all shouldn’t be allowed to root for Caleb Williams. Switch teams to wherever Justin goes after you’re done rooting for Mitch Trubisky.

So you think holding on to Mitch or Justin was the move?

Mitch wasn’t an option, so I don’t know why you’d bring that up.

With JF, Joe Alt, and Jer’Zhan Newton we win that game.

Fields led his offense to 32 points, and Jets fans aren’t killing Fields for missing wide open guys. And even if you’re not a Fields guy, Bagent, Joe Alt, and Jer’Zhan Newton look better than Caleb.

But you were telling us that Caleb was going to be a top 10 QB and that we shouldn’t even be allowed to root for him because we were doubting his greatness before he got drafted. Now he can’t even hit wide open guys.

[Betta Bulleavit]

Caleb’s game was above league average, he was 13th in QBR. 270 total yards, 2 touchdowns and no turnovers.

He had some atrocious moments in the 2nd and 3rd quarter, but the game as a whole was perfectly fine. We just harp on the negatives of the QB in a loss because it’s easy.

If you watched that game and thought Caleb Williams was "average" fair enough. I thought he was hot garbage. Maybe my definition of average is too high or maybe week 1 is skewed downward based on everyone still finding their rhythm.

Same problems seemed repeatedly out there to me:
1: Did not get ball out on time
2: Did not seem to make reads on time
3: Inaccurate passes on short balls that with accurate passes would have led to much larger gains

The numbers are all okay-ish, but watching the sausage being made left me feeling a lot worse than the numbers.

Not to say he won't be better next game or that he can't be the guy, but I would evaluate this game as very poor.

I think we saw those things at times. But I also felt like he did very well avoiding sacks that would have been sacks last year. I also saw plenty of occasions where he got the ball out on time even if he didn’t make throws where there were bigger opportunities. Overall, I thought he was decent but not good enough when he needed to be. But in terms of the loss, there’s plenty of blame to go around.

We could have done without all of the penalties.
We could have used that FG that BJ passed on in the first half.
We could have used that timeout that was burned on a challenge that we weren’t gong to win.
Etc….

[patryk7754]

At one point in the 3rd quarter, we had a 91% chance of winning. They don't know the Bears.

They are who we thought they were

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

I bought two Jets jerseys last week, personally I'm just not here for rooting for Black Matt Millen and Johnny Manziel's darker cousin. I want them to do well but I just see a poorly configured roster with all hype and no substance and it's a painful waste of time.

The team will be better with Bagent, Caleb just creates too many issues for himself.

Well we don't need Jets fans in here trolling us

You can root for Poles when he takes another WR and a kicker way too early, I'll just continue to speak my mind about how poorly the roster is constructed and how alarming the QBs play and behavior is to me.

You're either a disgruntled or delusional Bears fan at this point.

Its just going to be that much sweeter when we finally turn it around knowing that I didn't jump ship and go buy another teams jersey.

[NZB2323]

Caleb’s game was above league average, he was 13th in QBR. 270 total yards, 2 touchdowns and no turnovers.

He had some atrocious moments in the 2nd and 3rd quarter, but the game as a whole was perfectly fine. We just harp on the negatives of the QB in a loss because it’s easy.

If you watched that game and thought Caleb Williams was "average" fair enough. I thought he was hot garbage. Maybe my definition of average is too high or maybe week 1 is skewed downward based on everyone still finding their rhythm.

Same problems seemed repeatedly out there to me:
1: Did not get ball out on time
2: Did not seem to make reads on time
3: Inaccurate passes on short balls that with accurate passes would have led to much larger gains

The numbers are all okay-ish, but watching the sausage being made left me feeling a lot worse than the numbers.

Not to say he won't be better next game or that he can't be the guy, but I would evaluate this game as very poor.

I think we saw those things at times. But I also felt like he did very well avoiding sacks that would have been sacks last year. I also saw plenty of occasions where he got the ball out on time even if he didn’t make throws where there were bigger opportunities. Overall, I thought he was decent but not good enough when he needed to be. But in terms of the loss, there’s plenty of blame to go around.

We could have done without all of the penalties.
We could have used that FG that BJ passed on in the first half.
We could have used that timeout that was burned on a challenge that we weren’t gong to win.
Etc….

One of the penalties was intentional grounding on Caleb, and I know our secondary is injured, but the defense also scored a TD and only gave up 6 points in the first half.

It’s not over for Caleb, and I hope that he can continue to improve, but this loss is on him. For a guy who was supposed to be a “generational talent,” how many times is he going to get outplayed by rookies from his draft class?