Bears 12.0

[patryk7754]

I think it's perfectly fine to be frustrated watching Fields find success with two different teams while his replacement has struggled significantly(especially if you were pounding the table to keep Fields). A lot of the struggles from caleb are the fault of coaching but a lot fully is on him. But I don't think it's fair to start doubting his abilities just yet. He had a lot of bad habits coming out of college that needed to be fix but not only were those not improved one, the previous coaching regime added on to those. Regardless of the talent level, it would have been difficult to learn a completely new offense and doing things he's never done before and against a Brian Flores defense.

I'd say the root cause of Bears fans' frustration is the constant need to "show patience" because the clock restarts every 2/3 years with a new QB. Its magnified when all the other QBs in the draft class are having more success than him but we have no choice to have patience. I just hope the fan base can avoid the hell that was the JF debate.But there's already murmurs of bringing in Bagent so i have little hope that doesn't happen unless Williams stars going crazy, sooner than later.

[patryk7754]

but hey...maybe if Williams doesn't pan out, by the end of JF's contract, we'd have a decent idea of who Williams is and we can bring JF back

[Jeffster81]

Losers find ways to lose games. The Bears proved this to be true last night. Which means CBJ mission becomes a lot more difficult because he has to find a way to change that mentality or nothing will ever change with the Bears. I am not expecting playoffs but I want this team to look like an NFL team by the end of the year.

[Betta Bulleavit]

If you watched that game and thought Caleb Williams was "average" fair enough. I thought he was hot garbage. Maybe my definition of average is too high or maybe week 1 is skewed downward based on everyone still finding their rhythm.

Same problems seemed repeatedly out there to me:
1: Did not get ball out on time
2: Did not seem to make reads on time
3: Inaccurate passes on short balls that with accurate passes would have led to much larger gains

The numbers are all okay-ish, but watching the sausage being made left me feeling a lot worse than the numbers.

Not to say he won't be better next game or that he can't be the guy, but I would evaluate this game as very poor.

I think we saw those things at times. But I also felt like he did very well avoiding sacks that would have been sacks last year. I also saw plenty of occasions where he got the ball out on time even if he didn’t make throws where there were bigger opportunities. Overall, I thought he was decent but not good enough when he needed to be. But in terms of the loss, there’s plenty of blame to go around.

We could have done without all of the penalties.
We could have used that FG that BJ passed on in the first half.
We could have used that timeout that was burned on a challenge that we weren’t gong to win.
Etc….

One of the penalties was intentional grounding on Caleb, and I know our secondary is injured, but the defense also scored a TD and only gave up 6 points in the first half.

It’s not over for Caleb, and I hope that he can continue to improve, but this loss is on him. For a guy who was supposed to be a “generational talent,” how many times is he going to get outplayed by rookies from his draft class?

I’d have to disagree with this sentiment in general. You’re referencing one penalty. We had TWELVE. Additionally, I never indicated that the defense was a problem. Just that there were other things that transpired in this game that didn’t have much to do with Caleb. Like the unnecessary risks, the burning of a timeout that we absolutely needed at the end and several special teams miscues. Had we won the game, it wouldn’t have been on Caleb and losing it wasn’t all on him either.

The bottom line is that the Bears played well enough to win this game and the points left on the table vs the final score indicates as much.

[dougthonus]

Sure. I thought Caleb looked elite in the first quarter and a half. 10 for 10 passing. None of your bullet points really applied here in my opinion. Everything was sharp, quick, and per the game plan. Announcers fawning, game plan was great. Over 4 quarters, he ends as a top 5 QB on the day.

Without rewatching, in my head I felt about 5 of those passes were poorly thrown in those 10 completions. The most obvious one was the one thrown way behind Loveland, but the first three passes were all relatively poor under the circumstances. The Vikings hadn't blitzed once through the first few drives (per the announcing team, not verified by me), Caleb had all day to throw in the pocket and was inaccurate on like 10 yard in air passes where a good clean pass would have given us well more room on those drives.

That's why I commented even through the first half, that I didn't think he was playing well, and again, it wasn't about the stats because 10/10 sounds amazing statistically and is obviously a great statistical achievement, but it was looking at the actual completions made in the circumstances they were made.

He did have a couple really good throws in there like the scramble and then sideline throw to Odunze (whom also made an amazing catch on it).

I think in the 2nd and 3rd quarters, his eyes were in the backfield too much. Flores starting mixing blitz packages, throwing him and the line off. Lots of off balance throws leading to accuracy issues.

And then the last drive when he didn’t have time to overthink any of that, he was better.

Some of what you say certainly applies to multiple downs, and some of it doesn’t, leading to the average numbers I’m citing.

I think Ben will show him the plays that were way off, and it’ll be his job to try and extend that 1st quarter success through the entire game.

My general concern with the game was even when he was making the completions, I felt it was more about the Vikings starting the game extraordinarily conservatively, and then when they ramped up the pressure he was unable to do anything. The end of game is also different (as often is at the end of games) because everything gets skewed in max desperation vs max prevent big play type of scenario where you need to score twice and don't realistically have time to score twice.

Again, hope for the best going forward, I've said with Williams I won't really evaluate him as a prospect until end of year, but he has a lot of growth to do from this game IMO.

[NZB2323]

I think we saw those things at times. But I also felt like he did very well avoiding sacks that would have been sacks last year. I also saw plenty of occasions where he got the ball out on time even if he didn’t make throws where there were bigger opportunities. Overall, I thought he was decent but not good enough when he needed to be. But in terms of the loss, there’s plenty of blame to go around.

We could have done without all of the penalties.
We could have used that FG that BJ passed on in the first half.
We could have used that timeout that was burned on a challenge that we weren’t gong to win.
Etc….

One of the penalties was intentional grounding on Caleb, and I know our secondary is injured, but the defense also scored a TD and only gave up 6 points in the first half.

It’s not over for Caleb, and I hope that he can continue to improve, but this loss is on him. For a guy who was supposed to be a “generational talent,” how many times is he going to get outplayed by rookies from his draft class?

I’d have to disagree with this sentiment in general. You’re referencing one penalty. We had TWELVE. Additionally, I never indicated that the defense was a problem. Just that there were other things that transpired in this game that didn’t have much to do with Caleb. Like the unnecessary risks, the burning of a timeout that we absolutely needed at the end and several special teams miscues. Had we won the game, it wouldn’t have been on Caleb and losing it wasn’t all on him either.

The bottom line is that the Bears played well enough to win this game and the points left on the table vs the final score indicates as much.

Sure, it’s a team game. It’s not 100% on Caleb, but he’s not blameless either. If he connects with receivers who are wide open, we win. I don’t think that’s too much to ask for a “generational talent” that we could have traded for a King’s ransom.

[Betta Bulleavit]

but hey...maybe if Williams doesn't pan out, by the end of JF's contract, we'd have a decent idea of who Williams is and we can bring JF back

Well, my hope is to make it out of this alive but…..I said from the beginning that Fields and Williams aren’t that much different. I got butchered to no end back when I was campaigning to keep Fields. But I watch so much of Williams and other QBs that I just knew that he wasn’t going to flourish as quickly as people thought he would.

This doesn’t mean that Williams won’t be really good at some point. But I never saw an instant impact QB and I tried my damnest to prepare folks for that. But it’s all water under the bridge at this point.

[Michael Jackson]

He's got a lot of potential. A lot will depend on how they use him. Kmet was criminally under-utilized last year I thought. We are going to have 5 legitimate weapons at WR and TE next season. If Caleb can learn the system and spread the ball around, the offense could be so much better than last year.

The misuse of Kmet seemed to be from the top down. It was insane. I think that the Loveland thing is... a ton of hope in Ben making him into the weapon he could be. Less that he is a guarentee to be that IMHO. Who knows how Ben will be as a HC though, that is a complete guess.

One reception. WTF. The guy is the best receiver on the team.

edit: oh that post was from months ago. point still stands

It was noted last night for sure.

[dougthonus]

I think we saw those things at times. But I also felt like he did very well avoiding sacks that would have been sacks last year.

Mostly I thought he was still hanging on to the ball too long and needs to learn to avoid sacks by processing the game faster.

We could have done without all of the penalties.
We could have used that FG that BJ passed on in the first half.
We could have used that timeout that was burned on a challenge that we weren’t gong to win.
Etc….

Yeah, also would toss out there the PI call on Stevenson that set up the score where it looked on replay was incidental contact and the receiver fell, then Stevenson ran into him after he fell while the ball was thrown in a completely uncatchable spot even if there wasn't incidental contact hurt them a lot. I get why the flag was thrown because live it looked bad, but thought it was a poor call.

Also I was annoyed by the challenge of that fumble, it looked ridiculous on the surface, watching it live it looks like the receivers knees never get off the ground, there's no way its a fumble, and then in replay that's also exactly what happened. The missed FG later and the going for it on fourth down definitely hurt.

There were a variety of things that happened that you hope to clean up, there will be mistakes of some type every game, I'm sure all units will go back and see what they can do better.

[Betta Bulleavit]

One of the penalties was intentional grounding on Caleb, and I know our secondary is injured, but the defense also scored a TD and only gave up 6 points in the first half.

It’s not over for Caleb, and I hope that he can continue to improve, but this loss is on him. For a guy who was supposed to be a “generational talent,” how many times is he going to get outplayed by rookies from his draft class?

I’d have to disagree with this sentiment in general. You’re referencing one penalty. We had TWELVE. Additionally, I never indicated that the defense was a problem. Just that there were other things that transpired in this game that didn’t have much to do with Caleb. Like the unnecessary risks, the burning of a timeout that we absolutely needed at the end and several special teams miscues. Had we won the game, it wouldn’t have been on Caleb and losing it wasn’t all on him either.

The bottom line is that the Bears played well enough to win this game and the points left on the table vs the final score indicates as much.

Sure, it’s a team game. It’s not 100% on Caleb, but he’s not blameless either. If he connects with receivers who are wide open, we win. I don’t think that’s too much to ask for a “generational talent” that we could have traded for a King’s ransom.

I agree with you 100%. Caleb isn’t blameless. I just think that this game falls under the “WE have to be better” category. Also, try not to get caught up in this “generational talent” nonsense. Caleb never called himself generational. That was the media know it alls and the fans that are that garbage up. In fact, the media is already trying to hype other college QBs as generational. Don’t believe all that hype.

[jnrjr79]

I think we saw those things at times. But I also felt like he did very well avoiding sacks that would have been sacks last year. I also saw plenty of occasions where he got the ball out on time even if he didn’t make throws where there were bigger opportunities. Overall, I thought he was decent but not good enough when he needed to be. But in terms of the loss, there’s plenty of blame to go around.

We could have done without all of the penalties.
We could have used that FG that BJ passed on in the first half.
We could have used that timeout that was burned on a challenge that we weren’t gong to win.
Etc….

One of the penalties was intentional grounding on Caleb, and I know our secondary is injured, but the defense also scored a TD and only gave up 6 points in the first half.

It’s not over for Caleb, and I hope that he can continue to improve, but this loss is on him. For a guy who was supposed to be a “generational talent,” how many times is he going to get outplayed by rookies from his draft class?

I’d have to disagree with this sentiment in general. You’re referencing one penalty. We had TWELVE. Additionally, I never indicated that the defense was a problem. Just that there were other things that transpired in this game that didn’t have much to do with Caleb. Like the unnecessary risks, the burning of a timeout that we absolutely needed at the end and several special teams miscues. Had we won the game, it wouldn’t have been on Caleb and losing it wasn’t all on him either.

The bottom line is that the Bears played well enough to win this game and the points left on the table vs the final score indicates as much.

TBH, it was a close enough game that you could change any number of things and the outcome would change:

1) FG decision-making and accuracy
2) Caleb playing better
3) Refs not blowing that egregious holding penalty
4) Bears not committing way too many legitimate penalties
5) Bears not having so many injuries in the secondary

Etc. The Bears could have won that game had Caleb played no differently. But they also could have won it had everything else been the same and Caleb played better.

[dougthonus]

I agree with you 100%. Caleb isn’t blameless. I just think that this game falls under the “WE have to be better” category. Also, try not to get caught up in this “generational talent” nonsense. Caleb never called himself generational. That was the media know it alls and the fans that are that garbage up. In fact, the media is already trying to hype other college QBs as generational. Don’t believe all that hype.

As a team we have to be better.

If we still don't have a franchise QB, there's very little reason to be excited about the Bears for the next 2-3 years. Every game Caleb has like this last one should make you doubt we have a franchise QB more.

So maybe, I will reframe it this way, ignoring the "why did we win or lose" question, an even more important question this year is "Is Caleb Williams a franchise QB?". So far evidence points to "no", but we are early enough in the process where that isn't unusual and could change quickly.

[patryk7754]

Williams stats are very misleading. Both last nights and last seasons. Sure, on paper they look good. How can you criticize someone for starting 10/10 and a rushing TD. It’s kind of easy when you notice the hidden cost of some of his completions. Sure he make a check down that was for 5/6 yards but he completely ignored a wide open guy down the field. This is a consistent thing that comes up with Williams. Does he turn the ball over a lot? No, but a lot of that has to do with him being unwilling to make difficult throws down the middle of the field. Not gonna throw a pick when you don’t throw the ball at all. Before he can be truly great, he needs to get out of the habit of not throwing the ball.

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

How about that Jonathan Kim kid that we signed and waived? He does have a career long 58 yarder.

[patryk7754]

One of the underrated weak points of Williams game is the timing of sending people,in motion. He snaps for the ball too late or early and things like it bouncing off the motion happen like it did last night. Or he sends them late and results in a delay of game

[Dresden]

Well we don't need Jets fans in here trolling us

You can root for Poles when he takes another WR and a kicker way too early, I'll just continue to speak my mind about how poorly the roster is constructed and how alarming the QBs play and behavior is to me.

You're either a disgruntled or delusional Bears fan at this point.

Its just going to be that much sweeter when we finally turn it around knowing that I didn't jump ship and go buy another teams jersey.

There ya go. Hopefully this was just a blip on the screen and we'll see a lot better football soon.

[Jimako10]

Well at least we know there are scripted plays to start the game...Caleb going 10/10 to start the game gave everyone and their mother hope things may finally be turning around. Turns out that it was just an upgrade in gameplanning. Not much of an upgrade in Caleb. Only the bears can rugpull you like that in a single game.

I know it's just game 1, but they can't afford to give away a game like that, not with their tough schedule. I can't see them beating Detroit in Detroit next week after they lost as well. I'll be shocked if they get to 8-9 wins. I only see 3 games after the bye where they'd be favored.

Looks like another "developmental" year. I still can't believe they gave Poles an extension before the season started. My only hope is that he was neutered and the real decisions are being made by BJ, which definitely seemed like a condition necessary for him to come on board. Unless Caleb comes out and dramatically develops footwork, timing, processing in the next few games...then I'll see you guys next year when we inevitably win the offseason for the 4th year in a row.

[Dresden]

If you watched that game and thought Caleb Williams was "average" fair enough. I thought he was hot garbage. Maybe my definition of average is too high or maybe week 1 is skewed downward based on everyone still finding their rhythm.

Same problems seemed repeatedly out there to me:
1: Did not get ball out on time
2: Did not seem to make reads on time
3: Inaccurate passes on short balls that with accurate passes would have led to much larger gains

The numbers are all okay-ish, but watching the sausage being made left me feeling a lot worse than the numbers.

Not to say he won't be better next game or that he can't be the guy, but I would evaluate this game as very poor.

I think we saw those things at times. But I also felt like he did very well avoiding sacks that would have been sacks last year. I also saw plenty of occasions where he got the ball out on time even if he didn’t make throws where there were bigger opportunities. Overall, I thought he was decent but not good enough when he needed to be. But in terms of the loss, there’s plenty of blame to go around.

We could have done without all of the penalties.
We could have used that FG that BJ passed on in the first half.
We could have used that timeout that was burned on a challenge that we weren’t gong to win.
Etc….

One of the penalties was intentional grounding on Caleb, and I know our secondary is injured, but the defense also scored a TD and only gave up 6 points in the first half.

It’s not over for Caleb, and I hope that he can continue to improve, but this loss is on him. For a guy who was supposed to be a “generational talent,” how many times is he going to get outplayed by rookies from his draft class?

I agree. Last year you can chalk up to being a rookie, a bad coach, etc. But c'mon, if the guy is as good as he was advertised to be, we should be seeing more signs than this by now. What bugs me is how conservative the offense is with him at QB. It's really hard to go the length of the field with nothing but 5 yard plays. So many of his passes were of that kind. I'd much rather see him throw the ball down the field and get picked off a few times, than just relying on these safe little outlet passes.

I tend to agree with the poster who said he developed the yips after getting sacked so much last year, and being told not to turn the ball over. Now he's afraid to throw it downfield, afraid to trust his instincts.

Of course, the fact that we can't run the ball doesn't help. I don't know what our average gain on first down was last night, but it seemed like it was less than 3 yards.

[Dresden]

Well at least we know there are scripted plays to start the game...Caleb going 10/10 to start the game gave everyone and their mother hope things may finally be turning around. Turns out that it was just an upgrade in gameplanning. Not much of an upgrade in Caleb. Only the bears can rugpull you like that in a single game.

I know it's just game 1, but they can't afford to give away a game like that, not with their tough schedule. I can't see them beating Detroit in Detroit next week after they lost as well. I'll be shocked if they get to 8-9 wins. I only see 3 games after the bye where they'd be favored.

Looks like another "developmental" year. I still can't believe they gave Poles an extension before the season started. My only hope is that he was neutered and the real decisions are being made by BJ, which definitely seemed like a condition necessary for him to come on board. Unless Caleb comes out and dramatically develops footwork, timing, processing in the next few games...then I'll see you guys next year when we inevitably win the offseason for the 4th year in a row.

Honestly if Caleb doesn't look much better after another 3 games, I'd start Bagent and see what he can do.

[panthermark]

https://www.si.com/nfl/bears/news/caleb-williams-among-bears-highest-graded-players-in-week-1-loss-to-viking

Despite a second half worth forgetting for the Chicago Bears and quarterback Caleb Williams in Week 1's loss to the Minnesota Vikings, the second-year QB managed to end the game as one of Chicago's top overall performers, according to the analytics powerhouse, Pro Football Focus.

Williams ended Week 1 with a 77.1 grade, which was the second best on the Bears and trailed only right tackle Darnell Wright, who finished with a 77.9.

[b]Fans who watched Monday night's meltdown may be wondering how Williams managed to earn a grade like that, despite sailing several passes beyond his intended target. The answer is his legs; his 86.1 rushing grade was critical to his final score. Williams' passing grade was just 67.9[/b].
Regardless, Williams was the main cog in a Bears' offense that scored 17 points against a ferocious Vikings defense. And while Chicago's loss certainly hurts, I have a sneaky suspicion that we'll look back at Williams' performance in a few weeks and appreciate it more.

Wright, meanwhile, was a brick wall in pass protection, earning an 86.1 from PFF.

As for the rest of the Bears' top-five scorers on offense, veteran wideout Olamide Zaccheaus scored a 72.1, while tight end Cole Kmet, whom many thought would step aside for rookie first-round pick Colston Loveland, earned a 66.9. Second-year wideout Rome Odunze was fifth with a 64.7.

On the other end of the spectrum was new right guard Jonah Jackson, whose 31.0 grade was downright horrendous. The Bears' rookie class didn't fare well either. Loveland scored a 52.1, running back Kyle Monangai earned a 51.4, and wideout Luther Burden III scored a 55.1. They joined Jackson as the four worst performers on offense in Week 1.