Semi-OT: Pablo Torre Investigation into Kawhie/Clippers

[MGB8]

The problem for both Kawhi and Ballmer is the reporting out of TO, saying that KL’s uncle demanded a similar paid but no-show arrangement to be made for him to consider staying there….

If those allegations prove highly substantiated….

[Evil_Headband]

Right - it is theoretically possible that this is cap circumvention without the Clippers' involvement. (I don't really know how that would happen b/c why would Aspiration want to pay the $28 million for nothing absent it being a quid pro quo for the Ballmer investment, but just for the sake of argument...). If the Clippers weren't involved, but Aspiration was paying Kawshi to sign with the Clippers, then I'd agree that the punishment may be limited to Kawhi in the form of voiding his contract. That theoretically could also punish the Clippers, but as noted in the thread, given Kawhi's big salary and limited availability, how much would they care?

For full disclosure, I am the one person on the Internet who believes that Ballmer is likely innocent. I reserve the right to change my mind as more evidence is released, but this is where I am at as of now.

What I think is most likely is that Aspiration originally planned for Kawhi to do stuff. I also believe they paid him an above market deal due to financial carelessness. We know next to nothing about what happened between November 2021 when Aspiration emailed the Clippers for an introduction to Kawhi and the completed contract in, I believe, April 2022. My guess is Kawhi through Uncle Dennis negotiated the deliverables and the "beliefs" clause. Aspiration should have defined "Beliefs" but failed to do so. It has also been reported that the Marketing folks at Aspiration didn't think Kawhi was a good spokesman for the company. They likely didn't push him to do stuff or maybe they tried and then gave up. I think the Kawhi signing was Sanberg's idea.

I'd need to look at the timeline again to be sure, but I suppose it's possible that Aspiration wasn't thinking about cap circumvention, exactly, but "if we give Kawhi a $28 million deal, then Ballmer will invest $50 million in the company." That secures both the Ballmer investment and allows them to go trade on Ballmer's name to get other investors.

But in that instance, it would seem Ballmer would be doing it to make sure Kawhi got paid and was happy to be a clipper (aka cap circumvention).

I don't really think it's possible that they signed him to a $28 million deal and thought he was not charismatic or whatever and therefore didn't have him do stuff. It's not that they didn't bother to have him cut actual promos (though that matters), but they could have at least used his likeness! Did they think he was so toxic that they didn't even want to slap his name or picture on stuff? That seems unlikely.

If anything, I think it's more likely Aspiration was fine with the no-show nature of the contract because they never wanted Kawhi to do anything publicly b/c it would just draw attention to the existence of the sponsorship and increase the chance the numbers would get out and people would discover the cap circumvention.

As far as timeline, the Intuit deal, Aspiration sponsorship with the Clippers, and the agreement for Ballmer to invest the $50 million all happened in September 2021. Per Ballmer, an email from Aspiration to the Clippers requesting an introduction to Kawhi came in November 2021. Kawhi's LLC was created in November 2021. The marketing deal was signed in April 2022.

[dougthonus]

The problem for both Kawhi and Ballmer is the reporting out of TO, saying that KL’s uncle demanded a similar paid but no-show arrangement to be made for him to consider staying there….

If those allegations prove highly substantiated….

Rumors about the Lakers rejecting the same conditions.

I agree, the fact that he asked 2 other franchises is a really big problem in this too.

[Evil_Headband]

The problem for both Kawhi and Ballmer is the reporting out of TO, saying that KL’s uncle demanded a similar paid but no-show arrangement to be made for him to consider staying there….

If those allegations prove highly substantiated….

Rumors about the Lakers rejecting the same conditions.

I agree, the fact that he asked 2 other franchises is a really big problem in this too.

But the NBA’s investigation will be focused on these 2021-2 events.

[jnrjr79]

The problem for both Kawhi and Ballmer is the reporting out of TO, saying that KL’s uncle demanded a similar paid but no-show arrangement to be made for him to consider staying there….

If those allegations prove highly substantiated….

Rumors about the Lakers rejecting the same conditions.

I agree, the fact that he asked 2 other franchises is a really big problem in this too.

But the NBA’s investigation will be focused on these 2021-2 events.

There is no reason to believe this and every reason to believe the NBA would look into these other reporters events to establish a pattern.

[Evil_Headband]

Rumors about the Lakers rejecting the same conditions.

I agree, the fact that he asked 2 other franchises is a really big problem in this too.

But the NBA’s investigation will be focused on these 2021-2 events.

There is no reason to believe this and every reason to believe the NBA would look into these other reporters events to establish a pattern.

They already investigated it. They aren't going to redo that.

[GetBuLLish]

Lost in the craziness of this story is how big of a douche Kawhi appears to be. Seems like he was trying to get inappropriate side benefits from every team he dealt with. As if the $100M+ contract wasn't enough.

[dougthonus]

But the NBA’s investigation will be focused on these 2021-2 events.

There is no reason to believe this and every reason to believe the NBA would look into these other reporters events to establish a pattern.

They already investigated it. They aren't going to redo that.

i wouldn't be so sure about that. I don't know what the league will do, but a lot of places would definitely take the attitude of "sweep under the rug when we can but investigate fully once we can't", and now we might be at the "we can't" phase of this thing where the public pressure is high and maybe matches the grudges of teams that didn't get Kawhi and might be very happy to discuss his demands.

[Evil_Headband]

There is no reason to believe this and every reason to believe the NBA would look into these other reporters events to establish a pattern.

They already investigated it. They aren't going to redo that.

i wouldn't be so sure about that. I don't know what the league will do, but a lot of places would definitely take the attitude of "sweep under the rug when we can but investigate fully once we can't", and now we might be at the "we can't" phase of this thing where the public pressure is high and maybe matches the grudges of teams that didn't get Kawhi and might be very happy to discuss his demands.

It's pointless. We and the NBA already know Uncle Dennis asked for things to multiple teams in 2019 that would have been salary cap circumventions. That isn't in question. Again, an NBA investigation on it was completed in 2019. They concluded that there were improper asks but no wrongdoing by teams.

What this new investigation will be centered on is whether they can find evidence such as an email, text message, or, perhaps, a credible witness that can tie that this $50 million Ballmer investment was made on condition of Kawhi getting this marketing deal. I'm sure they will also try to look into the deal itself to see if they can uncover how Kawhi was able to get such favorable terms. I'm guessing here but I think that last part might be harder to investigate as it would involve Kawhi/Uncle Dennis and Aspiration as opposed to the Clippers. Now, I know the NBA rules allow for circumstantial evidence to be used in assessing wrongdoing but with the magnitude of this situation, I think they will choose a higher standard. They aren't going to penalize the Clippers and indirectly call Ballmer a liar unless they have hard evidence.

[jnrjr79]

There is no reason to believe this and every reason to believe the NBA would look into these other reporters events to establish a pattern.

They already investigated it. They aren't going to redo that.

i wouldn't be so sure about that. I don't know what the league will do, but a lot of places would definitely take the attitude of "sweep under the rug when we can but investigate fully once we can't", and now we might be at the "we can't" phase of this thing where the public pressure is high and maybe matches the grudges of teams that didn't get Kawhi and might be very happy to discuss his demands.

Yes, and also cynically, the NBA has outsourced its investigation to a white shoe law firm that will be billing by the hour and more than happy to take a second look.

[kodo]

I wonder if they would go for a ban on Kawhi playing in the league, as more evidence comes out it seems like there was a persistent and repeated effort by Uncle Dennis to circumvent the cap with multiple teams. Ballmer is the guy who finally said yes.

[jnrjr79]

I wonder if they would go for a ban on Kawhi playing in the league, as more evidence comes out it seems like there was a persistent and repeated effort by Uncle Dennis to circumvent the cap with multiple teams. Ballmer is the guy who finally said yes.

That is not among the penalties enumerated in the CBA for cap circumvention, so you'd have to find another angle to do it, one would think.

[GetBuLLish]

I think the NBA's investigation will boil down to two things:

First, the aggressiveness of the investigation will depend no how much the other owners want Adam Silver to get to the bottom of this. If the owners aren't really pissed off and/or nervous about their own conduct, this will all get swept under the rug.

Second, if the owners do want an aggressive investigation and drastic penalties, the NBA will need to find someone with insider information who will squeal. I don't think the league can hammer the Clippers/Kawhi based on the evidence and circumstances so far disclosed, even though it all leads, IMO, to the conclusion that they intentionally circumvented the cap.

[jnrjr79]

I think the NBA's investigation will boil down to two things:

First, the aggressiveness of the investigation will depend no how much the other owners want Adam Silver to get to the bottom of this. If the owners aren't really pissed off and/or nervous about their own conduct, this will all get swept under the rug.

Second, if the owners do want an aggressive investigation and drastic penalties, the NBA will need to find someone with insider information who will squeal. I don't think the league can hammer the Clippers/Kawhi based on the evidence and circumstances so far disclosed, even though it all leads, IMO, to the conclusion that they intentionally circumvented the cap.

IMO owner sentiment will have more to do with the extent of any punishment than the depth of the investigation.

One thing I'd keep in mind is this question: is this realistically the only cap circumvention Kawhi/the Clippers engaged in? Given the report on what he/Uncle Dennis were asking for from other teams, I'd be a little surprised if this is the only one.

[jnrjr79]

And the hits keep coming:

On the latest episode of Torre's podcast — "Pablo Torre Finds Out" — he detailed a surprising investment by Clippers co-owner Dennis Wong into Aspiration that may have been used to pay Leonard.

Torre, who broke the original story, once again uncovered legal documents that show Wong — Ballmer's former college roommate — invested $1.99 million in Aspiration through a company called DEA 88 Investments just nine days before Leonard received a $1.75 million payment from the company.

The investment from Wong came while Aspiration was in the midst of serious cash-flow troubles and was already late on one quarterly payment to Leonard. Torre spoke with two former members of Aspiration who detailed the company's financial struggles at the time of Wong's investment. Torre's first source claimed Aspiration was "broke" at the time Wong made the investment in December 2022.

https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/breaking-news/article/clippers-co-owner-dennis-wong-reportedly-invested-199-million-in-a-failing-aspiration-days-before-kawhi-leonard-payment-133036644.html

[kodo]

You would think that when your cap circumvention middle man is going bankrupt and about to have all their documents go public, the last thing you would do is add another cap circumvention to those documents.

[LateNight]

You would think that when your cap circumvention middle man is going bankrupt and about to have all their documents go public, the last thing you would do is add another cap circumvention to those documents.

This was Mark Cubans argument.

But I don’t buy it. I think the reality is that there is a certain level of wealth in this country where people simply don’t care enough to try and hide their behavior

[drosestruts]

Pablo put out a part 3 today.

Big updates from the latest pod.

At one point Aspiration was strapped for Cash and Kawhi and Uncle Dennis were reaching out for their money

Dennis Wong, co-owner of the Clippers (owns 1%) and college roomate and best friend of Steve Ballmer, at this point invests $2m in Aspiration

Days later, Kawhi gets the money he was owned (roughly $2m)


Also shared today.

Prior to getting paid is overdue money in 2022 Kawhi played in 26% of games. After getting paid by Aspire, he coincidentally went on to play 82% of games


If people wanted a direct connection between the Clippers and these payments. One now exists.


Should Dennis Wong have known Aspire was a failing company at the time of his $2m investment? Probably, considering his daughter worked there and the company had just recently laid off half its staff.

[kyrv]

Pablo put out a part 3 today.

Big updates from the latest pod.

At one point Aspiration was strapped for Cash and Kawhi and Uncle Dennis were reaching out for their money

Dennis Wong, co-owner of the Clippers (owns 1%) and college roomate and best friend of Steve Ballmer, at this point invests $2m in Aspiration

Days later, Kawhi gets the money he was owned (roughly $2m)


Also shared today.

Prior to getting paid is overdue money in 2022 Kawhi played in 26% of games. After getting paid by Aspire, he coincidentally went on to play 82% of games


If people wanted a direct connection between the Clippers and these payments. One now exists.


Should Dennis Wong have known Aspire was a failing company at the time of his $2m investment? Probably, considering his daughter worked there and the company had just recently laid off half its staff.

Interesting. Thanks. I wonder if this is a one off or just other people have hidden it better. I was always skeptical that the super friends actually took pay cuts in Miami.

[Chi town]

Clipps and Kawhi are cooked.