Warriors exploring S&T for Kuminga

[bay2hk]

JK’s worth is closer to grimes than giddeys. Let’s see what sixers gives grimes

[statsman]

JK’s worth is closer to grimes than giddeys. Let’s see what sixers gives grimes

Sounds like the Sixers need to move Drummond or Oubre in order to sign Grimes and stay below the 2nd apron. If Drummond, the Sixers would need to stay below $18M for this season for Grimes (maybe $16M, if I don't have the roster right).

[Old_Blue]

JK at 22-25m a year seems about right to me.

The man lacks a handle, isn't a facilitator and requires a degree of spoon feeding on offense that disrupts the entire flow of the team. A reasonable argument can be made to pay some other team $22-25 million per year to take Kuminga off the Dubs' hands. The Dubs should stand pat on the hard ball offer they've presented. If Kuminga takes the qualifying offer, all the better. This unfortunate chapter in the team's recent history needs to come to an end.

[whatisacenter]

JK at 22-25m a year seems about right to me.

The man lacks a handle, isn't a facilitator and requires a degree of spoon feeding on offense that disrupts the entire flow of the team. A reasonable argument can be made to pay some other team $22-25 million per year to take Kuminga off the Dubs' hands. The Dubs should stand pat on the hard ball offer they've presented. If Kuminga takes the qualifying offer, all the better. This unfortunate chapter in the team's recent history needs to come to an end.

I was saying that the market for JK is 22-25M not that the Warriors will offer him that.

I also think JK will thrive on a different team and hope for his sake that he gets out of here sooner than later.

[Crazy-Canuck]

Maybe a 3/70 2+1 (team option) type deal. If that's even possible.

Kuminga gets his cash on a longer deal.
Warriors still get a cap ballast and a possible get out of free jail card in the 3rd year.

Giddey at 4/100
Cam at 1/6 on qo.

That's a huge gap and jk sits somewhere in the middle. Grimes and jk are the most similar, they might be the ones playing chicken with each other.

[Onus]

JK at 22-25m a year seems about right to me.

The man lacks a handle, isn't a facilitator and requires a degree of spoon feeding on offense that disrupts the entire flow of the team. A reasonable argument can be made to pay some other team $22-25 million per year to take Kuminga off the Dubs' hands. The Dubs should stand pat on the hard ball offer they've presented. If Kuminga takes the qualifying offer, all the better. This unfortunate chapter in the team's recent history needs to come to an end.

I was saying that the market for JK is 22-25M not that the Warriors will offer him that.

I also think JK will thrive on a different team and hope for his sake that he gets out of here sooner than later.

It’s actually 3/61 and 4/90 so more like 20-22.5. And we’re offering him the most the first year. If only we actually wanted him we’d up our offer but since we don’t I don’t see us changing our offer.

[Onus]

Maybe a 3/70 2+1 (team option) type deal. If that's even possible.

Kuminga gets his cash on a longer deal.
Warriors still get a cap ballast and a possible get out of free jail card in the 3rd year.

Giddey at 4/100
Cam at 1/6 on qo.

That's a huge gap and jk sits somewhere in the middle. Grimes and jk are the most similar, they might be the ones playing chicken with each other.

Why would we offer a 3rd year when we’re unwilling to guarantee any part of the 2nd year. Supposedly if we guaranteed the 2nd year or make it a po he’d have signed.

[whatisacenter]

The man lacks a handle, isn't a facilitator and requires a degree of spoon feeding on offense that disrupts the entire flow of the team. A reasonable argument can be made to pay some other team $22-25 million per year to take Kuminga off the Dubs' hands. The Dubs should stand pat on the hard ball offer they've presented. If Kuminga takes the qualifying offer, all the better. This unfortunate chapter in the team's recent history needs to come to an end.

I was saying that the market for JK is 22-25M not that the Warriors will offer him that.

I also think JK will thrive on a different team and hope for his sake that he gets out of here sooner than later.

It’s actually 3/61 and 4/90 so more like 20-22.5. And we’re offering him the most the first year. If only we actually wanted him we’d up our offer but since we don’t I don’t see us changing our offer.

Well, Giddy’s best offer was $20M until it wasn’t.

[Nvnervous45]

I was saying that the market for JK is 22-25M not that the Warriors will offer him that.

I also think JK will thrive on a different team and hope for his sake that he gets out of here sooner than later.

It’s actually 3/61 and 4/90 so more like 20-22.5. And we’re offering him the most the first year. If only we actually wanted him we’d up our offer but since we don’t I don’t see us changing our offer.

Well, Giddy’s best offer was $20M until it wasn’t.

True dat, but I wouldn't follow the Bulls lead on anything they've done lately.

[statsman]

I was saying that the market for JK is 22-25M not that the Warriors will offer him that.

I also think JK will thrive on a different team and hope for his sake that he gets out of here sooner than later.

It’s actually 3/61 and 4/90 so more like 20-22.5. And we’re offering him the most the first year. If only we actually wanted him we’d up our offer but since we don’t I don’t see us changing our offer.

Well, Giddy’s best offer was $20M until it wasn’t.

Based on what we know, the Bulls appeared to have been offering 4-years the entire offseason. I think they started at a bit less than 4/80, then sat at 4/80 for a while. After Cam Thomas opted for the QO about 6 days ago, the Bulls almost immediately up their offer to 4/88, before finally settling on 4/100.

In the case of Kuminga, the Warriors' only offer so far this offseason, that we know of, is the 1+1 for 2/45 with a team option 2nd season. The Warriors haven't moved at all. I am not saying they won't, but unlike the Bulls/Giddey, there's been no movement from the team.

I keep thinking a 2/45, fully guaranteed for both seasons and no option 2nd year, would be the final offer. I really don't know anymore. The Warriors have their reasons for their offer, and some believe it's because they have a trade lined up or could have lined up.

But if Kuminga opts for the QO, the Warriors are pretty much screwed on making any big mid-season trade. Maybe the Warriors don't have a trade lined up. Maybe they want Kuminga to sign the QO, as stupid as that is from the team's standpoint.

If anyone can figure out what the heck Lacob is thinking, go bet on the next lottery.

[Onus]

It’s actually 3/61 and 4/90 so more like 20-22.5. And we’re offering him the most the first year. If only we actually wanted him we’d up our offer but since we don’t I don’t see us changing our offer.

Well, Giddy’s best offer was $20M until it wasn’t.

Based on what we know, the Bulls appeared to have been offering 4-years the entire offseason. I think they started at a bit less than 4/80, then sat at 4/80 for a while. After Cam Thomas opted for the QO about 6 days ago, the Bulls almost immediately up their offer to 4/88, before finally settling on 4/100.

In the case of Kuminga, the Warriors' only offer so far this offseason, that we know of, is the 1+1 for 2/45 with a team option 2nd season. The Warriors haven't moved at all. I am not saying they won't, but unlike the Bulls/Giddey, there's been no movement from the team.

I keep thinking a 2/45, fully guaranteed for both seasons and no option 2nd year, would be the final offer. I really don't know anymore. The Warriors have their reasons for their offer, and some believe it's because they have a trade lined up or could have lined up.

But if Kuminga opts for the QO, the Warriors are pretty much screwed on making any big mid-season trade. Maybe the Warriors don't have a trade lined up. Maybe they want Kuminga to sign the QO, as stupid as that is from the team's standpoint.

If anyone can figure out what the heck Lacob is thinking, go bet on the next lottery.

The biggest difference is that the bulls actually want Giddey moving forward. We just want JK as a trade asset not as a long term piece.

[EvanZ]

It's not clear to me whether the sticking point for Kuminga really is the length of the deal and how many guaranteed years or whether he gets a PO in the second year. If he is adamant about getting a short term deal with a PO in the second year, the reason for that is that he wants to be out on the open market next summer. This obviously kills any trade value he has because it makes it very unlikely he'd stick around for the team that trades for him. And if he wants multiple guaranteed years, whether it's 2 or 3, that also might be tanking his trade value. It's really hard to say.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, it really may be the case that the FO has a good idea that the trade market for Kuminga is just bad and that basically any team with any asset that the Warriors actually want will just see Kuminga's contract as matching salary and nothing more. What they would be in it for are the future picks. You have to wrap your mind around this scenario and few here seem to be able to do that. The Kings and Suns were "willing" to trade for Kuminga but not willing to give up anything of real value. I'm fairly confident the FO has played out all these scenarios and what they are offering is the best they can do given the context. Kuminga is the trade bun not the meat. Accept it.

[Chris Porter's Hair]

If his hangup on the current offer is a lack of control, and worry that we'll trade him somewhere he doesn't want to go, I wonder if we can negotiate on that point. "Give us a list of 5 teams you don't want to be traded to." Find some middle ground on the no-trade part of it.

[statsman]

If his hangup on the current offer is a lack of control, and worry that we'll trade him somewhere he doesn't want to go, I wonder if we can negotiate on that point. "Give us a list of 5 teams you don't want to be traded to." Find some middle ground on the no-trade part of it.

It probably wouldn't be wise of Kuminga to burn any bridges out of the Warriors, but he has an idiot for an agent, so who knows.

If some team trades for him, wouldn't that mean they want him and want to play him? I would assume he would prefer that to being stuck all season with the Warriors.

Worst case scenario he gets consistent playing time on a team he (at least initially) doesn't want to stay with. He would be unrestricted after next season. But in this scenario, he gets a chance to showcase his "skills".

[AirP.]

If his hangup on the current offer is a lack of control, and worry that we'll trade him somewhere he doesn't want to go, I wonder if we can negotiate on that point. "Give us a list of 5 teams you don't want to be traded to." Find some middle ground on the no-trade part of it.

It probably wouldn't be wise of Kuminga to burn any bridges out of the Warriors, but he has an idiot for an agent, so who knows.

If some team trades for him, wouldn't that mean they want him and want to play him? I would assume he would prefer that to being stuck all season with the Warriors.

Worst case scenario he gets consistent playing time on a team he (at least initially) doesn't want to stay with. He would be unrestricted after next season. But in this scenario, he gets a chance to showcase his "skills".

How much time will Kuminga get, especially if he signs the QO? Golden States vested interest drops greatly with him on the QO and with that, maybe his overall minutes too, quite possibly he's just a fill in when Draymond or Butler take a game off while getting some small amount of minutes here and there.

If things go how we expect in FA with adding Horford, Melton, GP2 and possibly 1 more vet...

Curry, Butler, Draymond, Horford, Hield, Melton, Podz and Moody will be the 8 main guys as of now.
GP2 and Post will also get their specialized minutes and it's possible they want to try to play/develop Gui and TJD.

Adding Horford really helps Golden State's situation of dropping down the minutes of playing Green and Butler up a position which squeezes those minutes.

It would be best for everyone if Kuminga takes the 2 year contract and get some type of verbal commitment that GS and Kuminga's camp will try to work together to get him somewhere he wants to go while GS gets value out of him. Kumimga's trade value is much higher as a young asset than just an expiring contract so if someone really wants Kuminga, GS and Kuminga should have options. This might just make the trade a little more complicated with Golden State trying to trade Kuminga somewhere he wants and that team sending the assets to a 3rd or 4th team to make sure GS gets what they want.

[whatisacenter]

If his hangup on the current offer is a lack of control, and worry that we'll trade him somewhere he doesn't want to go, I wonder if we can negotiate on that point. "Give us a list of 5 teams you don't want to be traded to." Find some middle ground on the no-trade part of it.

It probably wouldn't be wise of Kuminga to burn any bridges out of the Warriors, but he has an idiot for an agent, so who knows.

If some team trades for him, wouldn't that mean they want him and want to play him? I would assume he would prefer that to being stuck all season with the Warriors.

Worst case scenario he gets consistent playing time on a team he (at least initially) doesn't want to stay with. He would be unrestricted after next season. But in this scenario, he gets a chance to showcase his "skills".

Why is JK's agent an idiot?

[TB]

The fact the Warriors are only offering the 2 year deal, that is almost certainly with a goal to trade him, is a pretty clear indication that they have admitted he was a bad pick. It’s one thing to say he’s a bad fit with Steph/Dray but we want him longterm… but they dont even want him post-Steph which would have been the whole point of drafting him to begin with.

To put in perspective just how bad Bob was at drafting, Kevon Looney was the last pick to be on the Warriors for a 2nd contract. Moody, and maybe JK, are going to break that streak. And clearly only Moody is someone they actually want on the roster this year.

[Onus]

Kumimga's trade value is much higher as a young asset than just an expiring contract so if someone really wants Kuminga, GS and Kuminga should have options.

What makes you say this?

[xdrta+]

It would be best for everyone if Kuminga takes the 2 year contract and get some type of verbal commitment that GS and Kuminga's camp will try to work together to get him somewhere he wants to go while GS gets value out of him.

A verbal "commitment" is meaningless, why would he believe anything they say? He might sign if they drop their insistence that he waive his NTC but there are no signs of that happening. IMO, if they really thought they could trade him for someone worthwhile, they would just guarantee two years.

[ChuckDurn]

I’ve been traveling for the past 12 days in Europe (non-sequitur: Portugal is amazing, particularly Porto and surrounding regions), and haven’t really been on RealGM, so I apologize if this has already been raised and a subject of debate.

The sense I get from everything being reported is that the Warriors aren’t going to change their 2-year / $45M offer (and the structure), and Kuminga plans to sign the qualifying offer instead. If that is actually the case and not what appears to be a super-effective bluff, would you rather that they call the Kings up and see if that previous offer (Kuminga for Carter + Saric + 2 2nd’s) is still on the table, and work with Kuminga to make that deal? (Note: not the offer involving Monk, which involves moving more salary for the Warriors.) Or would you rather just have Kuminga sign the QO, knowing he’d be here for 1 year and then he’d be lost for nothing?

Not sure what I’d do - I think Carter might end up being a decent player, the 2nd round picks are always nice to have, and I’d expect to waive Saric….. Technically we’d be taking on $10.3M of salary between the 2 players (rather than paying $7.9M to Kuminga), not sure if that would have any effect on who we might sign and what we could pay them……