Why is there silence after another Jokic embarrassing defeat?

[SpurNani]

Why would you put Giannis on this list, considering his playoff resume is weaker? He's hasn't made it out of the first round in years. How is Luka on this list, considering he's never even won a championship? Clearly, you can't have this discussion with any sense of objectivity.

What Luka did in 24 playoffs was far more impressive than what Jokic did in 23 playoffs when you consider the competition faced by both respective teams.

Luka carried his team past 3 50 win teams, including the Timberwolves who took Jokic out in 24 and the OKC Thunder who took Jokic out the following year. Oh and none took him 7 games to do so. He just so happened to run into the Celtics who were one of the greatest teams we've seen this decade.

Contrast that to Jokic in 23, who beat play in Timberwolves who were missing Naz Reid, Jaden McDaniels, hurt Rudy Gobert. They beat the Suns who had KD and Booker and basically nobody else. KD and Booker only played 13 total games together before Jokic faced them in playoffs.

And they beat 43 win play in Lakers with 39 year old Lebron and Anthony Davis, who isn't a true center. And then they beat the Miami Heat who lost their first play in game. Miami was also without their most dynamic young scorer in Tyler Herro.

Jokic just beat his first 50 win team this this year. Luka beat 3 50 win teams in 24 alone and led the entire playoffs in points, rebounds, assists. Just vastly different levels of competition ill take Luka in 24 over Jokic 23.

Luka was also playing alongside a future HOF player. So giving all the credit to Luka and saying he “carried” is misleading. Irving/Gafford/PJ/Lively/DJJ is one hell of a supporting cast.

But yes. Keep on lambasting people who give Jokic all the credit for their wins and be sure to look in a mirror at some point.

Go look at Kyries stats in playoffs in 24 and then go look at Jamal Murray's stats in 23. And you tell me, with a straight face, who was provided with more help Luka or Jokic.

[Statlanta]

.

If you want to attack Jokic, you got to attack him with nuance just like the posters who say that this needs context.

For example, his lack of athleticism is why you can put a guy like Caruso on him. Notice how despite being the tallest guy on the floor for the Nuggets, he's not a lob threat. Almost all the all-time great Centers(besides maybe Duncan who people lump into the PFs) are all time great athletes who you can lob the ball to. There's a verticality that Wilt, Bill Russell, even a older fat Shaq have that Jokic doesn't have and that limits his team. It's why the Thunder can play a horizontal defense gameplan against his teammates because Joker can't jump over a quarter and his teammates have the passing skill of college players.

[JayMKE]

Perhaps Jokic isn’t that greatest player of all time like the Stan’s think.

[GeorgeSears]

Dude, no one cares about European regional tournaments. I forgot that "Eurobasket" was on until the weekend. I can't image the players take this seriously either.

The Olympics are all that matters for basketball. Mostly because the US brings all their best players. If the US isn't involved, it doesn't matter.

[Infinite Llamas]

Perhaps Jokic isn’t that greatest player of all time like the Stan’s think.

I’ve been here a long time and I’ve never once seen anyone say Jokic is the greatest player of all time…

But let’s just keep making up stuff for the sake of discourse.

[Infinite Llamas]

What Luka did in 24 playoffs was far more impressive than what Jokic did in 23 playoffs when you consider the competition faced by both respective teams.

Luka carried his team past 3 50 win teams, including the Timberwolves who took Jokic out in 24 and the OKC Thunder who took Jokic out the following year. Oh and none took him 7 games to do so. He just so happened to run into the Celtics who were one of the greatest teams we've seen this decade.

Contrast that to Jokic in 23, who beat play in Timberwolves who were missing Naz Reid, Jaden McDaniels, hurt Rudy Gobert. They beat the Suns who had KD and Booker and basically nobody else. KD and Booker only played 13 total games together before Jokic faced them in playoffs.

And they beat 43 win play in Lakers with 39 year old Lebron and Anthony Davis, who isn't a true center. And then they beat the Miami Heat who lost their first play in game. Miami was also without their most dynamic young scorer in Tyler Herro.

Jokic just beat his first 50 win team this this year. Luka beat 3 50 win teams in 24 alone and led the entire playoffs in points, rebounds, assists. Just vastly different levels of competition ill take Luka in 24 over Jokic 23.

Luka was also playing alongside a future HOF player. So giving all the credit to Luka and saying he “carried” is misleading. Irving/Gafford/PJ/Lively/DJJ is one hell of a supporting cast.

But yes. Keep on lambasting people who give Jokic all the credit for their wins and be sure to look in a mirror at some point.

Go look at Kyries stats in playoffs in 24 and then go look at Jamal Murray's stats in 23. And you tell me, with a straight face, who was provided with more help Luka or Jokic.

Jamal had a great run but Kyrie was very productive too. Jokic didn’t carry the Nuggets. Luka didn’t carry the Mavericks. Shai didn’t carry the Thunder. They all had great teams and a lot of production from other players.

See how easy that is?

[giannis and 1]

Sure. Let's call a spade a spade on what Jokic is...the current best player in the world.

Sorry, that title belongs to Giannis.

[CharityStripe34]

Dude, no one cares about European regional tournaments. I forgot that "Eurobasket" was on until the weekend. I can't image the players take this seriously either.

The Olympics are all that matters for basketball. Mostly because the US brings all their best players. If the US isn't involved, it doesn't matter.

European teams care a lot about Eurobasket. If the big stars like Jokic, Giannis, and Luka didn't care they wouldn't participate. Games are competitive and these guys have a ton of pride. The nations that are represented by their teams' participation care as well.

I can promise that the "Big Three" and other guys like Markannen, Valanciunas, and Sengun are competing quite hard.

[Nate505]

USA basketball history is impressive, sure, no argument there. But the international competition is catching up all the time and there are no guarantees of gold anymore. Nowadays the absolute best players in the world are not even american anymore.

I mean, I guess every moment in the past is history, and sure, the world is catching up. That said, in the past 20 years the US is 5-0 for Gold's in the Olympics and has gone 35-1 in that span.

So its past history is impressive, and its recent history is impressive.

The best players in the world may not be American, but many are. And that's the thing, the US still dominates there too. I know all NBA teams aren't the end all and be all of rankings, but the US had 11 of the 15 players in the 1st-3rd teams. The other 4 countries had one each. Which is why the US will continue to be heavy favorites in the future.

[Mirotic12]

Dude, no one cares about European regional tournaments. I forgot that "Eurobasket" was on until the weekend. I can't image the players take this seriously either.

The Olympics are all that matters for basketball. Mostly because the US brings all their best players. If the US isn't involved, it doesn't matter.

EuroBasket is more important to NBA European players than winning the NBA championship.

[Mirotic12]

I mean, I guess every moment in the past is history, and sure, the world is catching up. That said, in the past 20 years the US is 5-0 for Gold's in the Olympics and has gone 35-1 in that span.

So its past history is impressive, and its recent history is impressive.

The best players in the world may not be American, but many are. And that's the thing, the US still dominates there too. I know all NBA teams aren't the end all and be all of rankings, but the US had 11 of the 15 players in the 1st-3rd teams. The other 4 countries had one each. Which is why the US will continue to be heavy favorites in the future.

The 2028 USA roster will not be anywhere close to heavy favorites. They will have a boost to possibly being slight favorites, just because they are the home team. Because the refs always favor the home team. It shouldn't be that way, but it is.

But the USA's next generation of players is the same thing as what Argentina and Spain have had happen already with their next generation of players.

It's a dramatic drop off in the level and quality of the players, as compared to the previous generation of players.

[tamaraw08]

Luka was also playing alongside a future HOF player. So giving all the credit to Luka and saying he “carried” is misleading. Irving/Gafford/PJ/Lively/DJJ is one hell of a supporting cast.

But yes. Keep on lambasting people who give Jokic all the credit for their wins and be sure to look in a mirror at some point.

Go look at Kyries stats in playoffs in 24 and then go look at Jamal Murray's stats in 23. And you tell me, with a straight face, who was provided with more help Luka or Jokic.

Jamal had a great run but Kyrie was very productive too. Jokic didn’t carry the Nuggets. Luka didn’t carry the Mavericks. Shai didn’t carry the Thunder. They all had great teams and a lot of production from other players.

See how easy that is?

Sure, but Steph Curry the Warriors.

[tamaraw08]

Sure. Let's call a spade a spade on what Jokic is...the current best player in the world.

The current best player who can't get out the second round in NBA and can't lead his heavily favored national team past the round of 16 without Bogdan Bogdanovic

Dude, it's a team game.
MJ didn't win without Pippen, Lebron didn't win without superstars, no one can
So can you name ANY player who can replace Jokic and help Serbia win it all?

[azcatz11]

Eurobasket is so competitive you have Shane Larkin leading the Turkish team in minutes. This does not compare to the Olympics. There are levels to this

[Infinite Llamas]

Go look at Kyries stats in playoffs in 24 and then go look at Jamal Murray's stats in 23. And you tell me, with a straight face, who was provided with more help Luka or Jokic.

Jamal had a great run but Kyrie was very productive too. Jokic didn’t carry the Nuggets. Luka didn’t carry the Mavericks. Shai didn’t carry the Thunder. They all had great teams and a lot of production from other players.

See how easy that is?

Sure, but Steph Curry the Warriors.

2022 is still a fresh scar lol

[Mirotic12]

Eurobasket is so competitive you have Shane Larkin leading the Turkish team in minutes. This does not compare to the Olympics. There are levels to this

The Olympics is so competitive, that Carlik Jones, Yuta Watanabe, and Josh Hawkinson led the Olympic tournament in minutes.

This does not compare to the EuroBasket. There are levels to this, and clearly, the Olympics is the lower level.

[GeorgeSears]

Dude, no one cares about European regional tournaments. I forgot that "Eurobasket" was on until the weekend. I can't image the players take this seriously either.

The Olympics are all that matters for basketball. Mostly because the US brings all their best players. If the US isn't involved, it doesn't matter.

European teams care a lot about Eurobasket. If the big stars like Jokic, Giannis, and Luka didn't care they wouldn't participate. Games are competitive and these guys have a ton of pride. The nations that are represented by their teams' participation care as well.

I can promise that the "Big Three" and other guys like Markannen, Valanciunas, and Sengun are competing quite hard.

I think that comes from pressure from their countrymen. They probably just want them to show up and act like they care. Winning it all is a bonus.

It's like the UEFA nations league in football. No one cares about that tournament, it's not as prestigious as the World Cup or Eurocup.

[Mirotic12]

Dude, no one cares about European regional tournaments. I forgot that "Eurobasket" was on until the weekend. I can't image the players take this seriously either.

The Olympics are all that matters for basketball. Mostly because the US brings all their best players. If the US isn't involved, it doesn't matter.

European teams care a lot about Eurobasket. If the big stars like Jokic, Giannis, and Luka didn't care they wouldn't participate. Games are competitive and these guys have a ton of pride. The nations that are represented by their teams' participation care as well.

I can promise that the "Big Three" and other guys like Markannen, Valanciunas, and Sengun are competing quite hard.

I think that comes from pressure from their countrymen. They probably just want them to show up and act like they care. Winning it all is a bonus.

It's like the UEFA nations league in football. No one cares about that tournament, it's not as prestigious as the World Cup or Eurocup.

European national teams don't operate like that. And especially not the national federations. It's not the NBA. Players can't have that attitude. No matter who they are, it won't be tolerated.

If any of them actually really acted like that and had that attitude, they would for sure 100% be kicked off their national team.

[CharityStripe34]

Dude, no one cares about European regional tournaments. I forgot that "Eurobasket" was on until the weekend. I can't image the players take this seriously either.

The Olympics are all that matters for basketball. Mostly because the US brings all their best players. If the US isn't involved, it doesn't matter.

European teams care a lot about Eurobasket. If the big stars like Jokic, Giannis, and Luka didn't care they wouldn't participate. Games are competitive and these guys have a ton of pride. The nations that are represented by their teams' participation care as well.

I can promise that the "Big Three" and other guys like Markannen, Valanciunas, and Sengun are competing quite hard.

I think that comes from pressure from their countrymen. They probably just want them to show up and act like they care. Winning it all is a bonus.

It's like the UEFA nations league in football. No one cares about that tournament, it's not as prestigious as the World Cup or Eurocup.

No, Eurobasket has a fairly rich tradition, it's not a brand new tournament like the UEFA Nations League. The big NBA players who've participated throughout the years do it because they actually care. Are there additional marketing opportunities in their home countries? Sure. But to say that guys like Giannis, Jokic, Luka and others are "pretending to care" is a total non sequitur. Obviously, the Euro Cup for soccer is infinitely bigger across Europe but the Eurobasket has a pretty solid following. Especially among countries like Germany, France, the Baltics, the Balkans and the Mediterranean.

[Doctor MJ]

USA basketball history is impressive, sure, no argument there. But the international competition is catching up all the time and there are no guarantees of gold anymore. Nowadays the absolute best players in the world are not even american anymore.

So I just always want to make clear that, at least for me, nothing I'm saying is intended to be anti-international players or betting against the global future of the game. The change of guard at the top of the NBA is a huge deal!

Further, we should absolutely expect that as the game globalizes further, if the non-US part of the world cares about the World Cup more than the Olympics, then the World Cup will actually become more important than the Olympics.

But for right now, we have an OP who has this weird expectation that an American site should be all making hater threads about something that happened in one game of a basketball tournament that a) doesn't include Americans and b) Americans can't easily watch. As such, the OP is in the group of people who are most confused about the actual prominence of the European thing they care so much about.

Completely understandable to resent the fact that the USA has always been the most important country in basketball by a huge margin, and understandable to predict that won't always be the case, but as of 2025, this is still how the basketball world works.