Trade Talk (Part 17): Early Offseason Planning

[KGdaBom]

Nembhard is an absolute beast in the postseason.

40 Playoff Games. 51/47/79, Almost a 5/1 AST/TO ratio.

7 Playoff series, has never shot below 42% from 3 in any of them.

Great size for a PG, can defend multiple positions.

DDV is a terrific specialist, but not nearly as valuable.

I'll go by Nembhard's career 3% of 33. I'm not a believer of players becoming playoff superstars that aren't regular seasons stars.

He's never not done it. Some guys just thrive on the biggest stage. Others disappear.

Indy is a much better team on offense and defense during the regular season with him on the floor. And he's proven to be effective playing PG or playing next to a PG.

DDV had a tough playoffs last year. I don't think that is indicative of him. I expect him to light it up in this years playoffs. I've let the Nembhard fans talk me into him being better than DDV, but I'll say by a slim margin. He certainly doesn't merit us trading Randle for Toppin into the deal.

[Wolveswin]

I'll go by Nembhard's career 3% of 33. I'm not a believer of players becoming playoff superstars that aren't regular seasons stars.

He's never not done it. Some guys just thrive on the biggest stage. Others disappear.

Indy is a much better team on offense and defense during the regular season with him on the floor. And he's proven to be effective playing PG or playing next to a PG.

DDV had a tough playoffs last year. I don't think that is indicative of him. I expect him to light it up in this years playoffs. I've let the Nembhard fans talk me into him being better than DDV, but I'll say by a slim margin. He certainly doesn't merit us trading Randle for Toppin into the deal.

lol “The guy I am stumping for gets the benefit of the doubt, the other guy just sucks because I don’t agree.” - KGdamBom

Maybe just maybe Nembhard will light it up this year as full time lead guard in Indiana. The same way we would expect him to light it up next to Edwards as lead guard.

[KGdaBom]

He's never not done it. Some guys just thrive on the biggest stage. Others disappear.

Indy is a much better team on offense and defense during the regular season with him on the floor. And he's proven to be effective playing PG or playing next to a PG.

DDV had a tough playoffs last year. I don't think that is indicative of him. I expect him to light it up in this years playoffs. I've let the Nembhard fans talk me into him being better than DDV, but I'll say by a slim margin. He certainly doesn't merit us trading Randle for Toppin into the deal.

lol “The guy I am stumping for gets the benefit of the doubt, the other guy just sucks because I don’t agree.” - KGdamBom

Maybe just maybe Nembhard will light it up this year as full time lead guard in Indiana. The same way we would expect him to light it up next to Edwards as lead guard.

Is that what you took from my post? I'm giving the benefit of the doubt to Nembhard now and accepting your word for it that he's better than DDV. I have no expectations of Nembhard lighting anything up unless he's an herb fan. He wasn't even on last year's ESPN top 100. DDV was at 75. I guess last year has caused Nembhard's stock to rise dramatically even in a season where he shot 29% from 3.

[Note30]

If Josh Giddey picks up his Qualifying-Offer, what would you all be willing to add to Mike Conley to make a deal happen?

Yeah.

We have no PG of the future. Rob def isn't it, back up quality at best.

Giddey is bad on defense but we'll have an actual PG.

Wow, Note, giving up on the 8th round pick after one year of very little play. That is disappointing.

We have no PG and the dude can't even get on the floor. And when he does get on the floor he plays like a backup.

Here's a list of other 8th picks that were guards in the last 15 years.

2022 – Dyson Daniels (PG/SG), Pelicans.

2018 – Collin Sexton (PG), Cavaliers.

2017 – Frank Ntilikina (G), Knicks.

2014 – Nik Stauskas (SG), Kings.

2013 – Kentavious Caldwell-Pope (SG), Pistons.

2012 – Terrence Ross (SG), Raptors.

2011 – Brandon Knight (PG), Pistons.


Most of those were busts or rotation/role players at best. The best player on that list is probably Daniels who is barely a few years into his career.

In case you're really using the pick number to justify anything.

[Norseman79]

Nembhard will be better as a point guard, but only if he is allowed to play point guard, not to basically watch iso ball and catch and shoot 3's (that's DD)

[Note30]

I'll go by Nembhard's career 3% of 33. I'm not a believer of players becoming playoff superstars that aren't regular seasons stars.

He's never not done it. Some guys just thrive on the biggest stage. Others disappear.

Indy is a much better team on offense and defense during the regular season with him on the floor. And he's proven to be effective playing PG or playing next to a PG.

DDV had a tough playoffs last year. I don't think that is indicative of him. I expect him to light it up in this years playoffs. I've let the Nembhard fans talk me into him being better than DDV, but I'll say by a slim margin. He certainly doesn't merit us trading Randle for Toppin into the deal.

Seems to be your excuse every time something doesn't go your way. "Oh it's tough ****" "Oh it'll be better next year" "He had a tough playoffs".

Followed by your own prediction with no factual basis.

Then rinse and repeat when those predictions don't come true.

I don't think A.Nembhard is worth trading the only remaining players we can trade away, but the way you argue sucks.

[KGdaBom]

He's never not done it. Some guys just thrive on the biggest stage. Others disappear.

Indy is a much better team on offense and defense during the regular season with him on the floor. And he's proven to be effective playing PG or playing next to a PG.

DDV had a tough playoffs last year. I don't think that is indicative of him. I expect him to light it up in this years playoffs. I've let the Nembhard fans talk me into him being better than DDV, but I'll say by a slim margin. He certainly doesn't merit us trading Randle for Toppin into the deal.

Seems to be your excuse every time something doesn't go your way. "Oh it's tough ****" "Oh it'll be better next year" "He had a tough playoffs".

Followed by your own prediction with no factual basis.

Then rinse and repeat when those predictions don't come true.

I don't think A.Nembhard is worth trading the only remaining players we can trade away, but the way you argue sucks.

No excuse. I said he had a rough playoffs. I expect him to do better next time. He was great in the prior years playoffs. Why do you like being rude to me every chance you get.

[frankenwolf]

Yeah.

We have no PG of the future. Rob def isn't it, back up quality at best.

Giddey is bad on defense but we'll have an actual PG.

Wow, Note, giving up on the 8th round pick after one year of very little play. That is disappointing.

We have no PG and the dude can't even get on the floor. And when he does get on the floor he plays like a backup.

Here's a list of other 8th picks that were guards in the last 15 years.

2022 – Dyson Daniels (PG/SG), Pelicans.

2018 – Collin Sexton (PG), Cavaliers.

2017 – Frank Ntilikina (G), Knicks.

2014 – Nik Stauskas (SG), Kings.

2013 – Kentavious Caldwell-Pope (SG), Pistons.

2012 – Terrence Ross (SG), Raptors.

2011 – Brandon Knight (PG), Pistons.


Most of those were busts or rotation/role players at best. The best player on that list is probably Daniels who is barely a few years into his career.

In case you're really using the pick number to justify anything.

What I'm really "justifying" is the fact that the kid has one year under his belt, played on a Conference finals team and is playing the most difficult position in the NBA. Sure, he didn't knock the socks off anyone with that first year, but he gained knowledge, confidence and is getting accustomed to the team, which is damn hard to do when you are only playing 5 minutes a game. You will see what you want and I will see what I want. He has my confidence until he proves otherwise.

[Biff Cooper]

I think I need to take a month off from this board. I just got stupider trying to read the past week's posts. Hopefully, posters will smarten up when we have something real to talk about.

[Norseman79]

Nembhard would give us arguably the best defensive 1-3 in the league with Edwards and McDaniels. That is already better than DDV. Nembhard has a much better handle and actual point guard game as well. He plays with some attitude and edge, which we need. DDV can shoot.

I don't think Randle is a star, I do think he and DDV for Nembhard and Toppin is an overpay - I would do it, but I get why people wouldn't. Likely need a 3rd team or future first coming back to MN

[Wolveswin]

Now with Giddey signed, I think something with the Bulls. Now, I like Giddey in MN just don’t LOVE it. So, I think something with these 4 teams…

To Pistons: Randle (DDV?)
=Pistons need to pay for upgrade from Tobias to Randle. Do they want to stack picks or include Ivey with DDV to them?

To Bulls: Dilly/Tobias (Pistons Picks?)
=Bulls send out Giddey+ for Dilly+.

To Magic: Giddey (DDV? or Ivey?)
=Magic need passing and offense with their top end defense. Giddey does that. But I think Suggs > Giddey so they need value.

To Wolves: Suggs++ (out is Randle, Dilly, DDV)
=Wolves get MN kid Suggs, more importantly his D, versatility and declining contract. Suggs is core fitting and if his shooting steadily improves - perfect fit as available in Wolves price point.

What is the ++ Wolves get??? (Choose your own adventure)
White from Bulls?
Ivey direct from Pistons?
Black or Jett or Bitadze from Magic?
Other combos?

[BlacJacMac]

Now with Giddey signed, I think something with the Bulls. Now, I like Giddey in MN just don’t LOVE it. So, I think something with these 4 teams…

To Pistons: Randle (DDV?)
=Pistons need to pay for upgrade from Tobias to Randle. Do they want to stack picks or include Ivey with DDV to them?

To Bulls: Dilly/Tobias (Pistons Picks?)
=Bulls send out Giddey+ for Dilly+.

To Magic: Giddey (DDV? or Ivey?)
=Magic need passing and offense with their top end defense. Giddey does that. But I think Suggs > Giddey so they need value.

To Wolves: Suggs++ (out is Randle, Dilly, DDV)
=Wolves get MN kid Suggs, more importantly his D, versatility and declining contract. Suggs is core fitting and if his shooting steadily improves - perfect fit as available in Wolves price point.

What is the ++ Wolves get??? (Choose your own adventure)
White from Bulls?
Ivey direct from Pistons?
Black or Jett or Bitadze from Magic?
Other combos?

I kind of feel like this is a deal all 4 teams say no to.

[Wolveswin]

Now with Giddey signed, I think something with the Bulls. Now, I like Giddey in MN just don’t LOVE it. So, I think something with these 4 teams…

To Pistons: Randle (DDV?)
=Pistons need to pay for upgrade from Tobias to Randle. Do they want to stack picks or include Ivey with DDV to them?

To Bulls: Dilly/Tobias (Pistons Picks?)
=Bulls send out Giddey+ for Dilly+.

To Magic: Giddey (DDV? or Ivey?)
=Magic need passing and offense with their top end defense. Giddey does that. But I think Suggs > Giddey so they need value.

To Wolves: Suggs++ (out is Randle, Dilly, DDV)
=Wolves get MN kid Suggs, more importantly his D, versatility and declining contract. Suggs is core fitting and if his shooting steadily improves - perfect fit as available in Wolves price point.

What is the ++ Wolves get??? (Choose your own adventure)
White from Bulls?
Ivey direct from Pistons?
Black or Jett or Bitadze from Magic?
Other combos?

I kind of feel like this is a deal all 4 teams say no to.

What deal? Above isn’t complete as you can see.

I mean, I think Pistons no brainer would like to upgrade from Tobias to Randle - at what cost is the question. If only we had a place to discuss that.

Bulls could see Giddey as their future but do they? I mean it took forever to negotiate his future on team. I think no brainer where Bulls sit wouldn’t mind turning Giddey into rookie contract Dilly.

Magic motivations are for offense at cost of Suggs. Is Giddey (DDV) the offense they are looking for? Not sure. Worthy discussion however.

[Note30]

Now with Giddey signed, I think something with the Bulls. Now, I like Giddey in MN just don’t LOVE it. So, I think something with these 4 teams…

To Pistons: Randle (DDV?)
=Pistons need to pay for upgrade from Tobias to Randle. Do they want to stack picks or include Ivey with DDV to them?

To Bulls: Dilly/Tobias (Pistons Picks?)
=Bulls send out Giddey+ for Dilly+.

To Magic: Giddey (DDV? or Ivey?)
=Magic need passing and offense with their top end defense. Giddey does that. But I think Suggs > Giddey so they need value.

To Wolves: Suggs++ (out is Randle, Dilly, DDV)
=Wolves get MN kid Suggs, more importantly his D, versatility and declining contract. Suggs is core fitting and if his shooting steadily improves - perfect fit as available in Wolves price point.

What is the ++ Wolves get??? (Choose your own adventure)
White from Bulls?
Ivey direct from Pistons?
Black or Jett or Bitadze from Magic?
Other combos?

I kind of feel like this is a deal all 4 teams say no to.

What deal? Above isn’t complete as you can see.

I mean, I think Pistons no brainer would like to upgrade from Tobias to Randle - at what cost is the question. If only we had a place to discuss that.

Bulls could see Giddey as their future but do they? I mean it took forever to negotiate his future on team. I think no brainer where Bulls sit wouldn’t mind turning Giddey into rookie contract Dilly.

Magic motivations are for offense at cost of Suggs. Is Giddey (DDV) the offense they are looking for? Not sure. Worthy discussion however.

The Wolves can't be giving up Randle, DDV, and Dilly and not get one premier player.

I'm sick of trading dollars for quarters.

[cmoss84]

How about both Giddey AND Nembhard?

Chi IN: Toppin, Randle, and RD
Chi OUT: Giddey, Dosunmu, and Smith

Ind IN: Smith, Dosunmu, and DDV
Ind OUT: Nembhard and Toppin

MN IN: Giddey and Nembhard
MN OUT: Randle, DDV, and RD

[KGdaBom]

I kind of feel like this is a deal all 4 teams say no to.

What deal? Above isn’t complete as you can see.

I mean, I think Pistons no brainer would like to upgrade from Tobias to Randle - at what cost is the question. If only we had a place to discuss that.

Bulls could see Giddey as their future but do they? I mean it took forever to negotiate his future on team. I think no brainer where Bulls sit wouldn’t mind turning Giddey into rookie contract Dilly.

Magic motivations are for offense at cost of Suggs. Is Giddey (DDV) the offense they are looking for? Not sure. Worthy discussion however.

The Wolves can't be giving up Randle, DDV, and Dilly and not get one premier player.

I'm sick of trading dollars for quarters.

1000% agreement.

[Wolveswin]

How about both Giddey AND Nembhard?

Chi IN: Toppin, Randle, and RD
Chi OUT: Giddey, Dosunmu, and Smith

Ind IN: Smith, Dosunmu, and DDV
Ind OUT: Nembhard and Toppin

MN IN: Giddey and Nembhard
MN OUT: Randle, DDV, and RD

Why would Chicago want Randle and Toppin?

I don’t think Wolves have value for both. Close but not enough in my book.

[Wolveswin]

I kind of feel like this is a deal all 4 teams say no to.

What deal? Above isn’t complete as you can see.

I mean, I think Pistons no brainer would like to upgrade from Tobias to Randle - at what cost is the question. If only we had a place to discuss that.

Bulls could see Giddey as their future but do they? I mean it took forever to negotiate his future on team. I think no brainer where Bulls sit wouldn’t mind turning Giddey into rookie contract Dilly.

Magic motivations are for offense at cost of Suggs. Is Giddey (DDV) the offense they are looking for? Not sure. Worthy discussion however.

The Wolves can't be giving up Randle, DDV, and Dilly and not get one premier player.

I'm sick of trading dollars for quarters.

So you think an all-in upgrade trade - trading all 3 for one ‘premier’ player. Please suggest some available. Good topic if you give some examples.

[Wolveswin]

For those that like big names all-in trades…

To Hawks: Gobert/Randle/DDV (via TPE)

To Jazz: Dilly/Porzingis/2026 NOP 1st (via Hawks)/28&32 Wolves 1st Swaps

To Wolves: Markkanen/Jalen Johnson/Dyson Daniels

Markkanen/Reid/Beringer
McDaniels/Reid/Jalen Johnson
Jalen Johnson/McDaniels/Edwards
Edwards/Daniels/TSJ
Daniels/Conley/Vet in Open Roster Spot

[minimus]

Randle has unique combination of physicality AND scoring/passing. If I want to replace Randle I would look for a guy like Avdija: skilled passer, creative scorer AND tough.

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