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Joe Mazzulla Thread, Head Coach – (Contract Extension)

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Re: Joe Mazzulla Thread, Head Coach – (Contract Extension) 

Post#201 » by doogie_hauser » Sun Aug 10, 2025 6:44 am

playa-hater wrote:
celtxman wrote:He is an odd duck. But he does have the highest winning % of any NBA coach of all time. I'm OK with it.


For those posters who want to give Joe credit for having the highest winning percentage as proof that he is a good coach. What will they possibly say if and when we are top ten lottery team?


That is all on ownership and Brad Stevens with their off season cost cutting measures (which i mostly support given how crap the CBA is and how we need to cut costs for when Tatum returns (love him but i feel like Porzingis' injury issues will only get worse/not better)

The growth and development of Payton Pritchard amongst others is a big reason why I am a fan of Joe Mazz and delighted with the extension.

Actually hoping we can get jag into the lottery and get some much needed luck of the ping Pong balls !
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Re: Joe Mazzulla Thread, Head Coach – (Contract Extension) 

Post#202 » by 165bows » Tue Aug 12, 2025 3:55 pm

playa-hater wrote:
celtxman wrote:He is an odd duck. But he does have the highest winning % of any NBA coach of all time. I'm OK with it.


For those posters who want to give Joe credit for having the highest winning percentage as proof that he is a good coach. What will they possibly say if and when we are top ten lottery team?

If he can pull off a top pick he will get all the kudos from me.

Sorry to say Joe is in a win win situation right now.
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Mazzulla Too Cute 

Post#203 » by CeltsfanNLA » Yesterday 5:25 pm

I wanted to come through here to find out how people view coach today. There's a lot to love about Mazzulla but I also feel like his ego got in the way of us repeating. There are 2 big issues I have with him and how he handled last season and I wanted everyone's take on them.

1st issue is upping the 3 point attempts after winning a championship. Not only did the Celtics win, but they flat out dominated only losing 3 games the entire playoffs. He upped the 3 point attempts by 6 per game after already being over 40 attempts the year before. Why would you change strategy after such a dominating season with basically the same exact team coming back? 6 attempts is a good amount and makes a significant difference in the overall teams mindset. I saw a lot of games where we just shot ourselves out of them and really took away from a lot of other offensive aspects of the game and in my opinion, hurt the team overall.

2nd issue is in the playoffs. Hacking Mitchel Robinson in the first half of a playoff game on your home court. The 1st half!! Completely taking the flow out of the game in the 1st half like we were down big at the end of a game trying to come back or something made no sense to me whatsoever. Used up a bunch of fouls from our bigs in the 1st half and basically did nothing for us and he was able to completely dominate at the end of those games. I don't believe the Knicks were better than the Celtics, even without Porzingis. We got through and swept the Pacers the year before without Porzingis and the Pacers beat the Kicks this year in the playoffs. I put full blame on Mazzulla for losing that series

I feel like these 2 issues were/are glaring and I don't believe its been talked about enough. I don't believe Mazzulla has taken enough of the blame overall. We lost the 1st 2 games of that series having to go on the road to NY down 0-2. We should not have been down and we should not have been in a situation like we were scrambling for the ball on every play at the end of the game in desperation down in the series like that. I blame him for a lot....I think he got too cute
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Re: Mazzulla Too Cute 

Post#204 » by Hal14 » Yesterday 8:23 pm

CeltsfanNLA wrote:I don't believe the Knicks were better than the Celtics, even without Porzingis. We got through and swept the Pacers the year before without Porzingis and the Pacers beat the Kicks this year in the playoffs. I put full blame on Mazzulla for losing that series

KP - mystery illness which killed his effectiveness and productivity, along with nagging injuries to ankle, heel, etc.

Hauser - back injury

Jrue - hamstring injury

JB - knee injury..needed surgery right after the season ended

Tatum - torn achilles

Not to mention Tillman wasn't himself all season due to knee injury.

KNicks basically had their entire team healthy.

Also, in your post you mention how we swept the Pacers in 2024 and only lost 3 playoff games en route to the championship. Yet you blame Mazzulla for us losing to the Knicks..how is is that Mazzulla gets tons of blame for losing to the Knicks, yet zero credit for sweeping Pacers and going 16-3 to win the title in 2024?

He gets all the blame if we lose but zero credit when we win? And when we lose to the Knicks, all the blame on Mazzulla yet somehow zero blame on the players?
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Re: Mazzulla Too Cute 

Post#205 » by redslastlaugh » Yesterday 8:36 pm

CeltsfanNLA wrote:I wanted to come through here to find out how people view coach today. There's a lot to love about Mazzulla but I also feel like his ego got in the way of us repeating. There are 2 big issues I have with him and how he handled last season and I wanted everyone's take on them.

1st issue is upping the 3 point attempts after winning a championship. Not only did the Celtics win, but they flat out dominated only losing 3 games the entire playoffs. He upped the 3 point attempts by 6 per game after already being over 40 attempts the year before. Why would you change strategy after such a dominating season?

This is a fair criticism a lot of posters have mentioned. Increasing the 3PTA by so much year over year (14%) was such a strange change to a formula that had worked so well?

In toxicology there is a concept called "therapeutic range" which is basically the Goldilocks principle that says there is "too much", there is "too little" and there is "just right" ... Like if a person has a clinical zinc deficiency, supplementing 30mg zinc a day will be extremely beneficial but that doesn't mean: if 30mg/day of zinc is good then 3,000mg/day would be much, much better! (3,000mg of supplemental zinc would cause organ damage)

It seems like at some point, the coaching staff just decided that there is no therapeutic range, more 3pt attempts is always better, when it was obvious to everyone (or nearly everyone) that there is such as thing as "too much"
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Re: Mazzulla Too Cute 

Post#206 » by Smart2Nesmith43 » Yesterday 9:38 pm

redslastlaugh wrote:
CeltsfanNLA wrote:I wanted to come through here to find out how people view coach today. There's a lot to love about Mazzulla but I also feel like his ego got in the way of us repeating. There are 2 big issues I have with him and how he handled last season and I wanted everyone's take on them.

1st issue is upping the 3 point attempts after winning a championship. Not only did the Celtics win, but they flat out dominated only losing 3 games the entire playoffs. He upped the 3 point attempts by 6 per game after already being over 40 attempts the year before. Why would you change strategy after such a dominating season?

This is a fair criticism a lot of posters have mentioned. Increasing the 3PTA by so much year over year (14%) was such a strange change to a formula that had worked so well?

In toxicology there is a concept called "therapeutic range" which is basically the Goldilocks principle that says there is "too much", there is "too little" and there is "just right" ... Like if a person has a clinical zinc deficiency, supplementing 30mg zinc a day will be extremely beneficial but that doesn't mean: if 30mg/day of zinc is good then 3,000mg/day would be much, much better! (3,000mg of supplemental zinc would cause organ damage)

It seems like at some point, the coaching staff just decided that there is no therapeutic range, more 3pt attempts is always better, when it was obvious to everyone (or nearly everyone) that there is such as thing as "too much"

The Celtics took more threes in 2025 because their legs were shot from the cumulative fatigue of year after year of long playoff runs and Olympic tournaments and when that's the case it's easier to settle for jump shots than keep driving to the rim. It should have been pretty obvious from the fact that they were last in pace post all star break by a mile (two full possessions slower than the 29th ranked Magic) and that the entire rotation broke down during the playoffs. And for the record, going down in a blaze of bricked threes is what this core does regardless of who the coach is (people really need to rewatch game 7 against the Cavs in 2018 or game 4 against the Warriors in 2022). I wonder how many more coaches the Celtics have to cycle through before the players starting getting some blame for their part in this ?
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Re: Mazzulla Too Cute 

Post#207 » by Hal14 » Yesterday 9:49 pm

redslastlaugh wrote:
CeltsfanNLA wrote:I wanted to come through here to find out how people view coach today. There's a lot to love about Mazzulla but I also feel like his ego got in the way of us repeating. There are 2 big issues I have with him and how he handled last season and I wanted everyone's take on them.

1st issue is upping the 3 point attempts after winning a championship. Not only did the Celtics win, but they flat out dominated only losing 3 games the entire playoffs. He upped the 3 point attempts by 6 per game after already being over 40 attempts the year before. Why would you change strategy after such a dominating season?

This is a fair criticism a lot of posters have mentioned. Increasing the 3PTA by so much year over year (14%) was such a strange change to a formula that had worked so well?

Some thoughts:

1) The amount of mins Porzingis played decreased by 28% from 23-24 season to 24-25. These past couple years, one thing I've noticed is that when Porzingis plays, we are less reliant on the 3 ball because we have a dominant big man we can throw lobs to, who can also post up out of low post, mid post, high post, etc.

This is mainly because you go from KP (can shoot 3's but also has a lot of ways he can score inside the arc such as lobs, post ups, etc.) to Horford at the 5 who could pretty much only score by shooting 3's.

Plus, Pritchard took on a larger role last season..he was very good (won 6MOY) but is mainly just a guy who scores via 3's.

Horford, Pritchard, Hauser. All guys who just score by shooting 3's. Jrue and D-white as well, to some extent.

Blame Mazzulla if you must, but he as a coach you often just run offense based on the personel you have to work with.

2) "He upped the 3 point attempts by 6 per game after already being over 40 attempts the year before" the way you worded this sentence (and other parts of your post) seem to imply that 100% of what happens in a Celtics game is attributed to the head coach..it seems to imply that it's like a video game where 100% of the moves the players make and the shots the players take are determined by the head coach, like the players are simply robots being controlled by Mazzulla. That is *not* the case. Sure, the head coach has some say..he puts a system in place, he can call plays out here and there. But even if he calls a play and the first option for that play is X, well the opposing team (especially if they're a good team with good defensive players, a good coach..) will take that option away, deny the ball from going where the Celtics want it to, etc. so then the players need to figure something else out on the fly - or they go to the 2nd option for that play which might be an open 3.

Who knows, but the point is, the players are the ones actually playing the game and taking the shots - not the coach. And the players shots are often dictated (at least to some extent) by the opposing team, and how they defend that play and they might change things up on the fly to defend it differently than what the Celtics were expecting.

Like the Warriors game when they kept leaving Jaylen Brown open for a bunch of 3's on purpose. Games like that can make it look like we take more 3's. But it's just the way our opponent defended us. Also, Miami beat us in 2023 ECF, partly because they sagged off our shooters, clogged up the driving lanes, brought a 2nd defender anytime one of the Jays tried to drive into the paint..brought everyone to try and shut down the Jays and dare our role players like Grant, Horford, Brogdon (who they knew had an injured elbow), Smart, etc. to beat them from the outside. Miami knew if our 3's weren't falling, they'd win. So they purposely baited us into shooting more 3's and took away the paint - even though we still ended up scoring more points in the paint that series than Miami but the Mazzulla haters don't want to acknowledge that :)

Well, ever since that series, more teams have tried to copy that strategy to try and beat us. Which might be part of the reason why we took more 3's last season - because opposing teams were forcing us to.

Lastly, I just looked up some numbers. In the regular season last year:

Celtics record when shooting 50+ 3's = 31-7 (.815 winning %)
Celtics record when shooting less than 50 3's = 30-14 (.681 winning %)

So both winning percentages are very high. But the winning % was much higher when we shot 50+ 3's in the game.

Sure, we had some games in the playoffs (especially vs Knicks) where we shot a very high volume of 3's and lost. But that is a very small sample size of games..regular season is much larger sample size so the data is more meaningful. It's more likely that the losses to knicks were due to our injuries, as well as just having unfortunate shooting luck.

Edit: also some good points made by Smart2Nesmith about how we had short offseason in 2024, our guys played in Olympics, etc. so that also likely contributed to why we shot more 3's last season..
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Re: Mazzulla Too Cute 

Post#208 » by redslastlaugh » Yesterday 9:56 pm

Fatigue from the long playoff run is a reasonable explanation for why Al or the Jays or even Derrick White increased their 3PTA rate, but in other cases, this is not a satisfactory explanation

For instance, Jordan Walsh in the title season played only 83 minutes and 60% of his FGAs were 3pt attempts, and he shot only 22% on those few attempts. Last year Walsh increased to 400 minutes but also his percentage of attempts being 3PTA increased, with 66% of his shot attempts being 3pt attempts.

Why is Jordan Walsh, who is a 27% shooter from 3, shooting 66% of his attempts as 3s??

Jordan should ideally be used in a cutting or rover role, a super-charged Avery Bradley, running the baseline, catching backdoor passes and attacking the rim with power. Walsh really went nowheres on offense last year and his 3pt attempt rate should have decreased, given his skill set but somehow it increased by 6% ... he was launching 2/3rds of all his FG attempts as 3pt attempts. wait, what?!?

And that's just coaching. Walsh wasn't tired legs from a long playoff run, it was a conscious decision to have him get up more 3 pointers, when it clearly should have been the priority for him to shoot less 3s imo .... The guy is 26.6% on threes in two seasons, you are not maxxing him out or developing him to use him in this way (again, in my opinion)

Smart2Nesmith43 wrote:The Celtics took more threes in 2025 because their legs were shot from the cumulative fatigue of year after year of long playoff runs and Olympic tournaments and when that's the case it's easier to settle for jump shots than keep driving to the rim. It should have been pretty obvious from the fact that they were last in pace post all star break by a mile (two full possessions slower than the 29th ranked Magic) and that the entire rotation broke down during the playoffs. And for the record, going down in a blaze of bricked threes is what this core does regardless of who the coach is (people really need to rewatch game 7 against the Cavs in 2018 or game 4 against the Warriors in 2022). I wonder how many more coaches the Celtics have to cycle through before the players starting getting some blame for their part in this ?
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Re: Mazzulla Too Cute 

Post#209 » by redslastlaugh » Yesterday 10:10 pm

Hal14 wrote:
redslastlaugh wrote:
CeltsfanNLA wrote:I wanted to come through here to find out how people view coach today. There's a lot to love about Mazzulla but I also feel like his ego got in the way of us repeating. There are 2 big issues I have with him and how he handled last season and I wanted everyone's take on them.

1st issue is upping the 3 point attempts after winning a championship. Not only did the Celtics win, but they flat out dominated only losing 3 games the entire playoffs. He upped the 3 point attempts by 6 per game after already being over 40 attempts the year before. Why would you change strategy after such a dominating season?

This is a fair criticism a lot of posters have mentioned. Increasing the 3PTA by so much year over year (14%) was such a strange change to a formula that had worked so well?

Horford, Pritchard, Hauser. All guys who just score by shooting 3's. Jrue and D-white as well, to some extent.

Blame Mazzulla if you must, but he as a coach you often just run offense based on the personel you have to work with.
....

Lastly, I just looked up some numbers. In the regular season last year:

Celtics record when shooting 50+ 3's = 31-7 (.815 winning %)
Celtics record when shooting less than 50 3's = 30-14 (.681 winning %)

So both winning percentages are very high. But the winning % was much higher when we shot 50+ 3's in the game.

I just don't think it's anything but a purposeful decision before last season to increase the attempts. The first preseason game in Dubai or wherever we took 60 3pta's when the Boston Celtics had never attempted 60 threes in a game ever, since the introduction of the 3pt line. So if you don't see that as a conscious decision, I just disagree.

As to your posting the winning %s, the numbers in the games that matter just dont support the idea that the teams that attempt more 3s are advantaged. Here are the 3 pt attempt totals from the twelve series in the 2025 playoffs with the series winner in CAPITALS (ive been waiting for a chance to post these, lol)

THUNDER (206) pacers (242)
PACERS (187) knicks (187)
PACERS (164) cavaliers (194)
PACERS (183) bucks (190)
CAVALIERS (175) heat (159)
KNICKS (202) celtics (277)
KNICKS (181) pistons (188)
CELTICS (156) magic (156)
THUNDER (170) twolves (205)
TWOLVES (165) warriors (163)
THUNDER (263) nuggets (277)
NUGGETS (203) clippers (231)

Of the 12 series I looked at (I got bored of looking this up, there were a couple more series, but I'd assume the trend is the same, I didn't cherry pick the series) here were the numbers

8 of the series the team that shot FEWER 3PTA won the series
2 times, the team shot MORE 3PTA won the series
2 times the teams shot the exact same number of 3PTA

Most of the time, the team that shot less 3s was the team that advanced...
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Re: Mazzulla Too Cute 

Post#210 » by Hal14 » Yesterday 10:25 pm

redslastlaugh wrote:
Hal14 wrote:
redslastlaugh wrote:This is a fair criticism a lot of posters have mentioned. Increasing the 3PTA by so much year over year (14%) was such a strange change to a formula that had worked so well?

Horford, Pritchard, Hauser. All guys who just score by shooting 3's. Jrue and D-white as well, to some extent.

Blame Mazzulla if you must, but he as a coach you often just run offense based on the personel you have to work with.
....

Lastly, I just looked up some numbers. In the regular season last year:

Celtics record when shooting 50+ 3's = 31-7 (.815 winning %)
Celtics record when shooting less than 50 3's = 30-14 (.681 winning %)

So both winning percentages are very high. But the winning % was much higher when we shot 50+ 3's in the game.

I just don't think it's anything but a purposeful decision before last season to increase the attempts. The first preseason game in Dubai or wherever we took 60 3pta's when the Boston Celtics had never attempted 60 threes in a game ever, since the introduction of the 3pt line. So if you don't see that as a conscious decision, I just disagree.

As to your posting the winning %s, the numbers in the games that matter just dont support the idea that the teams that attempt more 3s are advantaged. Here are the 3 pt attempt totals from the twelve series in the 2025 playoffs with the series winner in CAPITALS (ive been waiting for a chance to post these, lol)

THUNDER (206) pacers (242)
PACERS (187) knicks (187)
PACERS (164) cavaliers (194)
PACERS (183) bucks (190)
CAVALIERS (175) heat (159)
KNICKS (202) celtics (277)
KNICKS (181) pistons (188)
CELTICS (156) magic (156)
THUNDER (170) twolves (205)
TWOLVES (165) warriors (163)
THUNDER (263) nuggets (277)
NUGGETS (203) clippers (231)

Of the 12 series I looked at (I got bored of looking this up, there were a couple more series, but I'd assume the trend is the same, I didn't cherry pick the series) here were the numbers

8 of the series the team that shot FEWER 3PTA won the series
2 times, the team shot MORE 3PTA won the series
2 times the teams shot the exact same number of 3PTA

Most of the time, the team that shot less 3s advanced...

1) all games matter. I disagree that only playoff games matter and that reg season games are meaningless.

2) Again, playoffs are a much smaller sample size. In a 7 game series (where some of the series are over in just 4 or 5 games) that is not enough games to really draw much conclusions from.

In a 7 game series, a missed call here or a missed shot there and the outcome of a game is swung in a different direction..things like that shift the data way more when it's a smaller sample size of games. Need a larger sample size so wild outlier stuff like that doesn't completely throw things off.

I'll take an 82 game sample size over 4 games everyday of the week.

3) Cavs beat the heat because they were the better team. Not because they shot less 3's. Knicks beat the Pistons because they were the better team with far more playoff experience, not because of the 3PA disparity - the 3PA disparity was so small that series anyways so likely was not much of a factor. Nuggets beat the clippers because they were the better team with healthier players and didn't have a playoff choker on the tail end of his career soaking up most of their offensive usage (Harden). Wolves beat Warriors, they took more 3's (barely) but also because they were the better team that didn't have lots of aging vets who are past their prime.

Pacers beat the Bucks because they were the better team, the healthier team with better coaching.

For the most part, the better, healthier team won each series.

4) the number of 3PA we had in a preseason game that took place on the other side of the world is not indicative of anything, imo.

5) Correlation does not equal causation.

Also, we obviously shot more 3's than our opponent in each playoff series we had in 2024 and that seemed to work out just fine. Warriors shot tons of 3's during the playoffs when they won 4 titles. Rockets shot tons of 3's in the Harden era and they were awesome, probably would have won the title in 2018 if CP3 didn't get hurt.
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Re: Mazzulla Too Cute 

Post#211 » by redslastlaugh » Today 4:51 am

Hal14 wrote:1) all games matter. I disagree that only playoff games matter and that reg season games are meaningless.

2) Again, playoffs are a much smaller sample size. In a 7 game series (where some of the series are over in just 4 or 5 games) that is not enough games to really draw much conclusions from.

In a 7 game series, a missed call here or a missed shot there and the outcome of a game is swung in a different direction..things like that shift the data way more when it's a smaller sample size of games. Need a larger sample size so wild outlier stuff like that doesn't completely throw things off.

I'll take an 82 game sample size over 4 games everyday of the week.

3) ...

For the most part, the better, healthier team won each series.

4) the number of 3PA we had in a preseason game that took place on the other side of the world is not indicative of anything, imo.

5) Correlation does not equal causation.

Also, we obviously shot more 3's than our opponent in each playoff series we had in 2024 and that seemed to work out just fine. Warriors shot tons of 3's during the playoffs when they won 4 titles. Rockets shot tons of 3's in the Harden era and they were awesome, probably would have won the title in 2018 if CP3 didn't get hurt.

I'm not gonna break out the game data from last regular season, but it would be interesting to see the Celtics winning percentage by 3pt attempts: games with attempts in the 20s (20-29 3PTA), 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s and just see... It's one thing to say >50 attempts has a higher winning percentage than <50 but does games where attempts are 60-69 have a higher winning % than games w/ attempts 30-39??

Having watched the team in 2023-24 when we averaged 40 3pta and then again in 2024-25 when we were taking 46 attempts, I thought the offense looked a lot better in the championship year. I thought we missed Oshae Brissett who had a slashing game that provided some diversity. And I just thought we leaned too far into taking 3pters last season.

But obviously, this is the modern NBA, I wouldnt advocate the team take like 10 or 15 3PTAs but I don't think that means 50 attempts is better than 40 and that 60 attempts is better than 50 and so on... My argument is that it is not a straight line on a constant incline that just the more 3PTA you take the better the result will be... In fact, I believe the opposite: once you pass a certain volume of 3PTA you start to underperform and lose games you otherwise would not

I'd love a little more ball and player movement and searching out open areas of the court from which to attack. And if we could drop back to 38-42 3PTA this coming season with JT out, I would be delighted and I think a team with that shot profile would outperform our 2025 playoff offense that (imo) took too many 3PTA

Edit: Because we were talking 2025 playoffs, thought I'd post the Pacers and Thunder attempts per game over the entire playoffs. Last playoffs, OKC attempted 35 per game and Indiana took 33.7 attempts per game. This is around my ideal number for the Celtics

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