Top 25 peaks of the 2001-25: #5-#6 Spots

[Top10alltime]

Amazing. People are voting for a guy who is a transition merchant, has absolutely 0 HC game, at the top 5 (not even top 10). Can only play off-ball and rim protect.

I now, therefore dub realgm PC Board, as part of Giannis FC

Giannis:

RealGM:

A transition merchant who somehow led his team to a title.

Everything I said was true, plus Giannis had best team in the league. That long mid-range from KD was really a 3, so refs helped Giannis not get rid of in the 2nd round, but oh well.

I'd take Curry and Durant before Giannis in 2021, and there are arguments to be made for Luka, Jokic, and Embiid as well.

I seriously don't think Giannis has ever been top 2 in the league at any point in his career. He isn't top 35 offensively, and maybe not top 40. Better defensively than offensively, yet has been mid on defense ever since 2023.

He's also dropped in every single playoffs other than 2021, and we can't be blaming this on injuries unlike Embiid. Giannis is just horrible at basketball no matter what way you want to look at it.

We are seeing RealGM put Giannis as high as top 3 2001-25 peaks ever, showing that RealGM is clearly Giannis FC, and as shown in image, they bow down to Giannis. Glazers are wild.



I hereby declare realGM PC as Giannis FC

[One_and_Done]

Amazing. People are voting for a guy who is a transition merchant, has absolutely 0 HC game, at the top 5 (not even top 10). Can only play off-ball and rim protect.

I now, therefore dub realgm PC Board, as part of Giannis FC

Giannis:

RealGM:

A transition merchant who somehow led his team to a title.

Everything I said was true, plus Giannis had best team in the league. That long mid-range from KD was really a 3, so refs helped Giannis not get rid of in the 2nd round, but oh well.

I'd take Curry and Durant before Giannis in 2021, and there are arguments to be made for Luka, Jokic, and Embiid as well.

I seriously don't think Giannis has ever been top 2 in the league at any point in his career. He isn't top 35 offensively, and maybe not top 40. Better defensively than offensively, yet has been mid on defense ever since 2023.

He's also dropped in every single playoffs other than 2021, and we can't be blaming this on injuries unlike Embiid. Giannis is just horrible at basketball no matter what way you want to look at it.

We are seeing RealGM put Giannis as high as top 3 2001-25 peaks ever, showing that RealGM is clearly Giannis FC, and as shown in image, they bow down to Giannis. Glazers are wild.



I hereby declare realGM PC as Giannis FC

Jrue, Lopez and Middleton are 'the best support cast in the league'? I wouldn't rate them as a particularly strong support cast. I mean, it's a strong support cast since 2 of those guys are still all-star calibre, but for title teams it doesn't strike me as unusual. I mean, just in 2021 CP3 had a support cast of Booker, Bridges, Cam Johnson, Crowder, and Ayton. That strikes me as superior to what Giannis had.

Some of the other stuff you've said seems even more unobjective. There are some really off the wall comments in here, like how Giannis has never been a top 2 player. The guy has 2 MVPs, and 7 top four finishes in MVP voting, so your views are clearly outlier ones. I certainly think you could argue Curry, Jokic, KD, or Luka, over him... but 2 of those guys are already in, and I'll be voting for the others shortly. Embiid has done nothing in the playoffs and is always hurt, he seems like a weird choice to rate over Giannis.

You claim Giannis can't use the injury excuse, but he kind of can. Every playoffs since 21 he or his support cast have had crippling injuries.

[Special_Puppy]

Amazing. People are voting for a guy who is a transition merchant, has absolutely 0 HC game, at the top 5 (not even top 10). Can only play off-ball and rim protect.

I now, therefore dub realgm PC Board, as part of Giannis FC

Giannis:

RealGM:

Bait used to be believable

[Special_Puppy]

Amazing. People are voting for a guy who is a transition merchant, has absolutely 0 HC game, at the top 5 (not even top 10). Can only play off-ball and rim protect.

I now, therefore dub realgm PC Board, as part of Giannis FC

Giannis:

RealGM:

A transition merchant who somehow led his team to a title.

Everything I said was true, plus Giannis had best team in the league. That long mid-range from KD was really a 3, so refs helped Giannis not get rid of in the 2nd round, but oh well.

I'd take Curry and Durant before Giannis in 2021, and there are arguments to be made for Luka, Jokic, and Embiid as well.

I seriously don't think Giannis has ever been top 2 in the league at any point in his career. He isn't top 35 offensively, and maybe not top 40. Better defensively than offensively, yet has been mid on defense ever since 2023.

He's also dropped in every single playoffs other than 2021, and we can't be blaming this on injuries unlike Embiid. Giannis is just horrible at basketball no matter what way you want to look at it.

We are seeing RealGM put Giannis as high as top 3 2001-25 peaks ever, showing that RealGM is clearly Giannis FC, and as shown in image, they bow down to Giannis. Glazers are wild.



I hereby declare realGM PC as Giannis FC

I think Giannis has a strong argument to be a top 2 player in the league every single year from 2019 to 2022

[Top10alltime]

Amazing. People are voting for a guy who is a transition merchant, has absolutely 0 HC game, at the top 5 (not even top 10). Can only play off-ball and rim protect.

I now, therefore dub realgm PC Board, as part of Giannis FC

Giannis:

RealGM:

Bait used to be believable

It's not bait. Giannis is terrible, and realgm PC is Giannis FC.

[Joao Saraiva]

Time to vote. Let's go.

Vote 1: Shaq 2001
The offensive machine. The unstopable man in the paint. I think he's the best offensive player left, even tough we still have lots of talent to discuss.

Shaq was unguardable in the post, and the only way to slow him down was fouling him. Teams were making room for 3 bigs (didn't even matter if they were any good) just to foul Shaq. That is some crazy imapct on the league and quite honestly I haven't seen anyone having the same type of effect.

The flaws on defense are there. He refused to come out to defend in the perimeter, even if the big he was going against could shoot the ball. Well, that could be problematic if Porziginis or other unicorns were playing back then. But they were not, it was a different game. So despite some of it hurting the team it was not an issue, so it's a problem I don't think is worth much of a downgrade on what we think about Shaq.

The rim protection was fine, man to man defense too, specially when it mattered the most.

Given his A+++ offesnive imapct I think it makes sense Shaq goes top 5 in the list.

Vote 2: Kevin Garnett 2004
Can't say I'm low on Kevin Garnett but after people almost killing me for not having him I did read some of the coments, so I'm giving him the vote. So please bother me less this time (and thanks for sharing the info).

Kevin is the modern PF on offense without the 3 point shooting. Well again not his fault, PFs were not encouraged to shoot them back then. But he still was very good from midrange, so spacing wise he was still ideal.

Less potent scorer than some names, but definitely had the handles and playmaking skills at superb level for a PF. Still good with his scoring, even tough I have some question marks on that.

Elite on defense with his ability to switch and hang out with guys from every position: I'd say in today's game he would translate even better. Less of a rim protector than Tim Duncan, but he was still very good in that regard as well.

I'm going 04 for team success also, as the Wolves didn't have the correct roster to make a championship run, but making the WCF was still a hell of an accomplishment.

Vote 3: Giannis 2021
As close to KG as we can get. Worse on playmaking and handles I guess. Much better as scorer and in my eyes Giannis is a better rim protector than KG. I believe KG however has the edge on man to man defense, range and ability to space making his fit easier with other players on offense.

The ultimate roll player, a tremendous finisher at the rim, and one of the best players we've seen in the league lately.

2021 is the year again, cause of team success and being available when it counted the most.

I know BKN had injuries. Well, you gotta have some luck to get a ring with Middleton as a 2nd fiddle.

Vote 4: Kobe 2006
Sorry in advance guys. I'm still high on Kobe, and while I considered these two (Giannis and KG) ahead I'm still very impressed with Kobe that season for reasons I stated previously, such as offensive explosion, low TOV% and a carry job that very few players (in my eyes) could have replicated.

[Joao Saraiva]

Amazing. People are voting for a guy who is a transition merchant, has absolutely 0 HC game, at the top 5 (not even top 10). Can only play off-ball and rim protect.

I now, therefore dub realgm PC Board, as part of Giannis FC

Giannis:

RealGM:

Bait used to be believable

It's not bait. Giannis is terrible, and realgm PC is Giannis FC.

Giannis is not terrible. He is a great player. Giannis FC cause people like him? Well sign me in. What there to not like about Giannis?

Dude just hasn't been available for playoffs and given his rosters how much more did you expect him to win? I'm kind of confused but why is Giannis terrible if he's a player with high impact on both ends?

[Top10alltime]

Bait used to be believable

It's not bait. Giannis is terrible, and realgm PC is Giannis FC.

Giannis is terrible. He is a trash player. Giannis FC cause people like him? Well sign me in. What there to like about Giannis?

Dude just hasn't done anything to be a good basketball player and given his rosters he was absolutely underwhelming! I'm not confused but why is Giannis any good at basketball if he's a player with low, extremely overrated impact on both ends?

I fixed that for you. The fact is Giannis is horrible at basketball on both ends.

[Djoker]

5. 2001 Shaquille O'Neal
6. 2008 Kobe Bryant
7. 2004 Kevin Garnett
8. 2021 Giannis Antetokounmpo

I posted a ton of why Shaq is so high on past threads. No need to rehash that.

With Kobe it basically comes down to box score dominance and maybe even more importantly empirical data regarding team success. Even though impact metrics don't love him, teams with him on the floor consistently had very good offenses, including post-Shaq, with pretty standard level offensive support. I believe the diversity of his skillset along with excellent playoff resilience makes him better in high leverage situations compared to multiyear RS impact metric show. He has four finals runs (three titles) with individual stats that can rival anyone in this era except Lebron and Jokic.

2001 PS:

29.4 IA Pts/75
+5.8 rTS
8.2 Box OC
8.1 cTOV%
47.1 Load

+13.4 rORtg ON Court

2008 PS:

30.4 IA Pts/75
+4.9 rTS
9.6 Box OC
8.5 cTOV%
49.2 Load

+7.9 rORtg ON Court

2009 PS:

30.6 IA Pts/75
+3.6 rTS
10.3 Box OC
6.5 cTOV%
50.5 Load

+8.4 rORtg ON Court

2010 PS:

30.3 IA Pts/75
+3.3 rTS
10.2 Box OC
8.9 cTOV%
51.8 Load

+8.4 rORtg ON Court

He has a pretty elite profile. High volume, moderately good efficiency, strong creation, low turnovers... Kobe is the best offensive player left in the project. On defense, I'm satisfied with calling him a slight positive.

Garnett's impact stats could warrant having him much higher but I'm not convinced. The playoff declines combined with total disappointment as far as team results means he is just unproven. That might feel unfair to say given his **** sandwich situation in Minnesota but I can't give the guy credit for leading championship teams at his peak when he didn't even come close. If you just focus on his impact stat profile in the RS, you can put him pretty darn high... but I won't. I care about playoffs a lot. The Wolves looking poor in many of these series on both ends of the court has to reflect at least somewhat poorly on KG. In Boston he sort of did it but it wasn't convincing. The 2008 Celtics also had a pretty dramatic decline comparing their RS form to their PS form. It's a common denominator with Garnett across two teams.

Giannis for reasons I discussed in previous posts has a super high ceiling. He's more of a go-to offensive guy than KG although his playoff offenses have also been pedestrian. Unlike KG, however, he has major durability issues and he's not as consistent on defense. 2021 must be Giannis' peak to me given the excellent playoff run. In 2019 and 2020 which were his best RS, he had poor and injury-laden postseasons, respectively. However, even in 2021, he missed two games in the ECF. As lessthanjake said, he's extremely fortunate that the Hawks team was so weak (and also playing without Trae Young) that the Bucks were able to squeak by. Usually that late in the playoffs, your best player missing games means good night. His Finals was all time great but between durability issues and questions marks about team playoff performance, he lands just below KG. I've flip-flopped a bunch on those two but I think push comes to shove, Garnett is going to be on the court and that matters.

[lessthanjake]

Amazing. People are voting for a guy who is a transition merchant, has absolutely 0 HC game, at the top 5 (not even top 10). Can only play off-ball and rim protect.

I now, therefore dub realgm PC Board, as part of Giannis FC

Giannis:

RealGM:

A transition merchant who somehow led his team to a title.

Everything I said was true, plus Giannis had best team in the league. That long mid-range from KD was really a 3, so refs helped Giannis not get rid of in the 2nd round, but oh well.

I'd take Curry and Durant before Giannis in 2021, and there are arguments to be made for Luka, Jokic, and Embiid as well.

I seriously don't think Giannis has ever been top 2 in the league at any point in his career. He isn't top 35 offensively, and maybe not top 40. Better defensively than offensively, yet has been mid on defense ever since 2023.

He's also dropped in every single playoffs other than 2021, and we can't be blaming this on injuries unlike Embiid. Giannis is just horrible at basketball no matter what way you want to look at it.

We are seeing RealGM put Giannis as high as top 3 2001-25 peaks ever, showing that RealGM is clearly Giannis FC, and as shown in image, they bow down to Giannis. Glazers are wild.



I hereby declare realGM PC as Giannis FC

Well I guess at least you’re writing some of your own content now…

[Top10alltime]

Garnett's impact stats could warrant having him much higher but I'm not convinced. The playoff declines combined with total disappointment as far as team results means he is just unproven. That might feel unfair to say given his **** sandwich situation in Minnesota but I can't give the guy credit for leading championship teams at his peak when he didn't even come close. If you just focus on his impact stat profile in the RS, you can put him pretty darn high... but I won't. I care about playoffs a lot. The Wolves looking poor in many of these series on both ends of the court has to reflect at least somewhat poorly on KG. In Boston he sort of did it but it wasn't convincing. The 2008 Celtics also had a pretty dramatic decline comparing their RS form to their PS form. It's a common denominator with Garnett across two teams.

I won't speak on Giannis part. All of you are in Giannis FC now because someone corrupted you.

But as for the KG playoffs in 2004, don't you think Sam Cassell out in 2004 was a part of that? KG had to play PG. I wouldn't hold that against him all that much, and maybe move him higher than Kobe.

[Joao Saraiva]

It's not bait. Giannis is terrible, and realgm PC is Giannis FC.

Giannis is terrible. He is a trash player. Giannis FC cause people like him? Well sign me in. What there to like about Giannis?

Dude just hasn't done anything to be a good basketball player and given his rosters he was absolutely underwhelming! I'm not confused but why is Giannis any good at basketball if he's a player with low, extremely overrated impact on both ends?

I fixed that for you. The fact is Giannis is horrible at basketball on both ends.

Hey you quoted me wrong. I don't want to be associated as a guy who talks stuff like that about Giannis.