Kawhi Leonard Signed a Secret $28M Deal. Steve Ballmer Funded a Fraud. We Followed the Money. | PTFO

[mtcan]

I'm suspicious that Cuban just wants this to go away because it may also lead to how he dealt with Dirk Nowitzki in his later years in Dallas. He sure did sign a lot of team friendly deals...

And while we are at it...how about Jalen Brunson? What is Dolan up to?

So let me start by saying I put nothing past Cuban in terms of trying to cheat to gain an edge. I have a hard time believing Dirk would engage in a similar scheme.

Also worth noting that Dirk took one small paycut in the summer of 2010. Took slightly less than a full max in part so Dallas could add Tyson Chandler. Then he signed a 2+PO deal in the summer of 2024 that paid him roughly $16M over 2 seasons(Rockets and Lakers both offered him max deals that summer). This would be the questionable one. He left a ton of money on the table to stay with Dallas, but according to Dirk did so in order to have a competitive team. Then his last two years he made $5M, but its hard to suggest Dirk was worth more than that.

Investigate Dallas if you think there is something there and maybe I'm blind because Dirk is Dallas, but I have a hard time believing he would go along with cap manipulations and under the table payments.

I believe Dirk is a straight shooter and ya his last few seasons in Dallas were really just for **** and giggles and at that point his legacy was already established.

But I really have to question the professional athlete who's main goal as an active productive contributor is not just to win but also to maximize earnings throughout his/her time as an athlete...so team friendly deals aren't always truly altruistic. Dudes aren't typically leaving millions on the table at the chance to compete or to "go home"...there are probably other deals going on behind the scenes to make the athlete whole while they leave millions on the table on their team friendly deals. All unusual team friendly deals should perhaps be scrutinized...

[GeorgeSears]

I don't think Ballmer needs to be removed or the team sold... but their ability to compete for a title has to be severely hampered, which means forfeiture of 1st round draft picks.

[firedavidkahn]

I don't think Ballmer needs to be removed or the team sold... but their ability to compete for a title has to be severely hampered, which means forfeiture of 1st round draft picks.

Those were already given away!!

[Texas Chuck]

But I really have to question the professional athlete who's main goal as an active productive contributor is not just to win but also to maximize earnings throughout his/her time as an athlete...so team friendly deals aren't always truly altruistic. Dudes aren't typically leaving millions on the table at the chance to compete or to "go home"...there are probably other deals going on behind the scenes to make the athlete whole while they leave millions on the table on their team friendly deals. All unusual team friendly deals should perhaps be scrutinized...

How far do you want to go? Tim Duncan also guilty? David West turned down $10M PO to go play for the min to try and win a title. Is he guilty? Karl Malone and Gary Payton signing with the Lakers? Guilty?

Dirk at the time was already in the top 10 for career earnings. His mom was still giving him an allowance when he went back to Germany lol. He never sought out endorsement deals even though in Dallas he could have made a fortune.

Some people are motivated by something other than making the top dollar. Hell I purposively took a sideways step in my career that I knew was going to cap my career ceiling knowing it would cost me money but I gained back so much time I'd do it again 1000 out of 1000 times.

Not sure we should take this story and go on a witchhunt. And that includes Jalen Brunson so you are not suggesting my motivations are selfish. Credible reason to? Absolutely investigate Cuban/Dirk, whomever. Just speculating because we think everyone only chases the almighty dollar at all times? Nah

[ciueli]

Now it's going to be impossible to prove Kawhi was dogging it or feigning an injury in order to exert leverage over the Clippers to force the payment without some communication between the Clippers and Kawhi or Uncle Dennis, but it definitely looks suspicious. Kawhi turning back into his old self and playing regular games only one game after Dennis Wong makes the investment in Aspire? And then missing only 10 games for the rest of the season he only 3 of which were not first or second nights of back-to-back games which he is expected to miss anyway? It's an incredible coincidence that he suddenly gets healthy (or as healthy as Kawhi ever gets) when the under the table payment problem is fixed.

As much as I dislike Kawhi, he was returning from the ACL injury at that time and didn't play for over a year, I don't think there's any connection here. We have enough evidence to hate on Kawhi without reaching, haha.

Let's be clear, though, Kawhi has done this before. When he played for the Spurs in 2017-18 he tried to come back from an injury after Spurs doctors cleared him to play, he played 9 games spread out across December 2017 and January 2018, then shut it down for the rest of the season, this was the incident that supposedly led to the falling out between Kawhi and the Spurs.

While there is nothing necessarily untoward about Kawhi seeming to still be injured after being cleared by Spurs doctors, he then put the Spurs in a position where they were essentially forced to trade him or see him sit out a good chunk of the next season on the basis of his injury, it was questionable whether he would ever play another game for the Spurs if they kept him. Kawhi also used the possibility of him being damaged goods to dissuade teams outside of LA for attempting to trade for him, it almost worked as the Kawhi to Toronto deal was initially shot down when Toronto wouldn't give up OG Anunoby. It's arguable that the only reason the Spurs eventually decided to do the Toronto trade was the influence of Gregg Popovich who was known to hate the Lakers and was unwilling to gift wrap them a superstar like Kawhi, as I said, Kawhi isn't new to using his injury situation as leverage to get what he wants from a team.

[GeorgeSears]

I don't think Ballmer needs to be removed or the team sold... but their ability to compete for a title has to be severely hampered, which means forfeiture of 1st round draft picks.

Those were already given away!!

Two pick swaps in 2027,2029, but they own 2030,31, and 32. Those last 3 need to be forfeited. What ever they get from the swap needs to be forfeited as well..

[mtcan]

But I really have to question the professional athlete who's main goal as an active productive contributor is not just to win but also to maximize earnings throughout his/her time as an athlete...so team friendly deals aren't always truly altruistic. Dudes aren't typically leaving millions on the table at the chance to compete or to "go home"...there are probably other deals going on behind the scenes to make the athlete whole while they leave millions on the table on their team friendly deals. All unusual team friendly deals should perhaps be scrutinized...

How far do you want to go? Tim Duncan also guilty? David West turned down $10M PO to go play for the min to try and win a title. Is he guilty? Karl Malone and Gary Payton signing with the Lakers? Guilty?

Dirk at the time was already in the top 10 for career earnings. His mom was still giving him an allowance when he went back to Germany lol. He never sought out endorsement deals even though in Dallas he could have made a fortune.

Some people are motivated by something other than making the top dollar. Hell I purposively took a sideways step in my career that I knew was going to cap my career ceiling knowing it would cost me money but I gained back so much time I'd do it again 1000 out of 1000 times.

Not sure we should take this story and go on a witchhunt. And that includes Jalen Brunson so you are not suggesting my motivations are selfish. Credible reason to? Absolutely investigate Cuban/Dirk, whomever. Just speculating because we think everyone only chases the almighty dollar at all times? Nah

I think Brunson's deal should be looked into.

Hard to say with the stars of the past.

But a guy in his prime (especially an all star) not wanting top dollar from the team when a catastrophic injury can change the their future earning potential any given time? Not so sure that passes the smell test.

[ChumboChappati]

With the recent news of Kawhi and the Clippers committing fraud, and reports that the Raptors were also willing to commit such fraud but could not beat the Clippers' offer ($15 mil vs $50 mil), are you now suspicious of Kawhi agreeing to play for the Raptors in 2018-19 after getting traded from the Spurs?

Kawhi was a top 5 player of the NBA at that time and was widely considered the best 2-way player in the NBA. He had a big fallout with the Spurs and was willing to sit out instead of playing for the Spurs ever. He wanted the Spurs to trade him to a Los Angeles team. His camp kept giving signals that he would not play for any other team. But the Spurs stand their ground and trade him instead to the Raptors, which is like the worst destination for an NBA superstar. When the trade news broke, there were rumblings from Kawhi's camp that Kawhi would not report to the Raptors. That was the last year of his contract, and he could have sat it out. But then Masai met with him, and he changed tone and agreed to play for the Raptors. I wonder what happened there. Did the Raptors offer to pay more to him out of his contract, for him to change his mind? May be Pablo should investigate this as well.

[levon]

But I really have to question the professional athlete who's main goal as an active productive contributor is not just to win but also to maximize earnings throughout his/her time as an athlete...so team friendly deals aren't always truly altruistic. Dudes aren't typically leaving millions on the table at the chance to compete or to "go home"...there are probably other deals going on behind the scenes to make the athlete whole while they leave millions on the table on their team friendly deals. All unusual team friendly deals should perhaps be scrutinized...

How far do you want to go? Tim Duncan also guilty? David West turned down $10M PO to go play for the min to try and win a title. Is he guilty? Karl Malone and Gary Payton signing with the Lakers? Guilty?

Dirk at the time was already in the top 10 for career earnings. His mom was still giving him an allowance when he went back to Germany lol. He never sought out endorsement deals even though in Dallas he could have made a fortune.

Some people are motivated by something other than making the top dollar. Hell I purposively took a sideways step in my career that I knew was going to cap my career ceiling knowing it would cost me money but I gained back so much time I'd do it again 1000 out of 1000 times.

Not sure we should take this story and go on a witchhunt. And that includes Jalen Brunson so you are not suggesting my motivations are selfish. Credible reason to? Absolutely investigate Cuban/Dirk, whomever. Just speculating because we think everyone only chases the almighty dollar at all times? Nah

I don't know if this is cap circumvention necessarily but I thought it was well known beforehand that Dirk and Duncan would be getting roles with their teams after retiring as players. Those cases are obviously not comparable to this though.

I think this may harm players who are okay with taking less to help teambuild, though. Basically invites scrutiny from fans and potentially the league.

[DaGawd]

But I really have to question the professional athlete who's main goal as an active productive contributor is not just to win but also to maximize earnings throughout his/her time as an athlete...so team friendly deals aren't always truly altruistic. Dudes aren't typically leaving millions on the table at the chance to compete or to "go home"...there are probably other deals going on behind the scenes to make the athlete whole while they leave millions on the table on their team friendly deals. All unusual team friendly deals should perhaps be scrutinized...

How far do you want to go? Tim Duncan also guilty? David West turned down $10M PO to go play for the min to try and win a title. Is he guilty? Karl Malone and Gary Payton signing with the Lakers? Guilty?

Dirk at the time was already in the top 10 for career earnings. His mom was still giving him an allowance when he went back to Germany lol. He never sought out endorsement deals even though in Dallas he could have made a fortune.

Some people are motivated by something other than making the top dollar. Hell I purposively took a sideways step in my career that I knew was going to cap my career ceiling knowing it would cost me money but I gained back so much time I'd do it again 1000 out of 1000 times.

Not sure we should take this story and go on a witchhunt. And that includes Jalen Brunson so you are not suggesting my motivations are selfish. Credible reason to? Absolutely investigate Cuban/Dirk, whomever. Just speculating because we think everyone only chases the almighty dollar at all times? Nah

I think Brunson's deal should be looked into.

Hard to say with the stars of the past.

But a guy in his prime (especially an all star) not wanting top dollar from the team when a catastrophic injury can change the their future earning potential any given time? Not so sure that passes the smell test.

the thing is brunson actually signed a max contract , just didn’t wait until the following offseason season where he could’ve earned a lot more that’s all. imo brunson’s deal isn’t as fishy as most are thinking it is, especially with his dad and nova boys with him. not hard to see why he’d make such a move

[Texas Chuck]

But a guy in his prime (especially an all star) not wanting top dollar from the team when a catastrophic injury can change the their future earning potential any given time? Not so sure that passes the smell test.

But isn't that fear of injury a defense of why he did sign the extension? Didn't want to be IT getting hurt and never seeing a big contract again? Remember Brunson begged Dallas to give him the exact same contract they gave Dorian Finney-Smith but they wanted to keep him a trade chip. He has clearly valued security in 3 straight contract decisions.

I still can't believe Dallas screwed up Brunson so badly. But that doesn't mean he and the Knicks were up to anything worse than the tampering they got punished for(that every team engages in every year). Maybe. I can't rule it out. But I don't think him opting for security and the chance to play with all his Nova buddies is enough to imply anything remotely like Kawhi here.

[The Master]

I don't think Ballmer needs to be removed or the team sold... but their ability to compete for a title has to be severely hampered, which means forfeiture of 1st round draft picks.

The problem with Ballmer - considering that we're discussing the 2021 deal that we found out about only due to the Aspiration's bankruptcy - is that no one knows at this point what happened in 2019, or in other instances of the Clippers getting prominent free agents.

What we do know is that:

1. Clippers blatantly cheated in 2021.
2. Kawhi camp demanded something very similar from the Raptors in 2019.

What happened in 2019 then with the Clippers?

Was this Aspiration deal a prolonged promised payment for 2019? Was it another side deal after the one from 2019? Who knows at this point. It's very likely. And considering that Ballmer lied about not knowing anything of what happened, he deserves the harshest punishment available, because not only he cheated, but wasn't any transparent about what happened.

Will he be forced to sell the Clippers? I doubt it, but it's way more serious than what Wolves did with Joe Smith both in terms of its scope and potential impact.

Let's be clear, though, Kawhi has done this before. When he played for the Spurs in 2017-18 he tried to come back from an injury after Spurs doctors cleared him to play, he played 9 games spread out across December 2017 and January 2018, then shut it down for the rest of the season, this was the incident that supposedly led to the falling out between Kawhi and the Spurs.

Sure, I'm just saying that Kawhi slowly returning from really serious injury and a very long break is the least controversial thing he did in the last 6 years. Is totally impossible that he was putting pressure on the Clippers to manage his Aspiration situation? Nope, but him being rusty at first and slowly introduced to serious playing is very logical.

[Texas Chuck]

I don't know if this is cap circumvention necessarily but I thought it was well known beforehand that Dirk and Duncan would be getting roles with their teams after retiring as players. Those cases are obviously not comparable to this though.

I think this may harm players who are okay with taking less to help teambuild, though. Basically invites scrutiny from fans and potentially the league.

They would have a role with the teams even if they insisted on max contracts. These are face of the franchise guys. In Dirk's case a singular face. Timmy has David Robinson.

But this in part is why Lebron has been adamant he won't ever take less. He doesn't want pressure put on other players or to deal with this scrutiny. And he could obviously afford to play for the min to strengthen the rosters. He's not making the max out of greed. He's doing it for all the players.

[HotelVitale]

As I remember it, Kawhi just threatened that he wasn't going to re-sign with anyone besides his chosen destinations, not that he would absolutely not play for them that season. That caused some teams to lower their offers.

End of day the Raptors offered a pretty light load with not much meaningful for their future--a scorer who'd proven repeatedly to not be their answer in Derozan, a solid younger role player in Poeltl, and a single 1st. Very light offer for a legit superstar in his prime, and at that price point it was worth him as a rental who might maybe maybe stay longer.

[ConSarnit]

I'm suspicious that Cuban just wants this to go away because it may also lead to how he dealt with Dirk Nowitzki in his later years in Dallas. He sure did sign a lot of team friendly deals...

And while we are at it...how about Jalen Brunson? What is Dolan up to?

So let me start by saying I put nothing past Cuban in terms of trying to cheat to gain an edge. I have a hard time believing Dirk would engage in a similar scheme.

Also worth noting that Dirk took one small paycut in the summer of 2010. Took slightly less than a full max in part so Dallas could add Tyson Chandler. Then he signed a 2+PO deal in the summer of 2024 that paid him roughly $16M over 2 seasons(Rockets and Lakers both offered him max deals that summer). This would be the questionable one. He left a ton of money on the table to stay with Dallas, but according to Dirk did so in order to have a competitive team. Then his last two years he made $5M, but its hard to suggest Dirk was worth more than that.

Investigate Dallas if you think there is something there and maybe I'm blind because Dirk is Dallas, but I have a hard time believing he would go along with cap manipulations and under the table payments.

The Dirk 2014 thing looks pretty suspicious from someone who has no skin in the game. Not only did he turn down in excess of what would have been an extra $15m per season, he did so to be “competitive” which also doesn’t seem to add up considering the Rockets were a) better than the Mavs in 2013-14 and b) had both Harden and Dwight on their team.

Not only did he turn down money that would have tripled the salary DAL was offering he turned down the opportunity to go to a clearly better team. Combine that with rumors about his doc (nothing substantiated but coincidentally released in 2014) and his continuing nebulous role as “special advisor” with the Mavs and there are a lot of red-ish flags. Ultimately there is no way to tell if Dirk took a wink-wink deal and I think enough time has passed where it doesn’t really matter. I would also add that I think paying a franchise icon like Dirk to continue to promote the franchise is probably the tamest form of possible cap circumvention.

[Fairview4Life]

Good try bud.

[Texas Chuck]

The Dirk 2014 thing looks pretty suspicious from someone who has no skin in the game. Not only did he turn down in excess of what would have been an extra $15m per season, he did so to be “competitive” which also doesn’t seem to add up considering the Rockets were a) better than the Mavs in 2013-14 and b) had both Harden and Dwight on their team.

Not only did he turn down money that would have tripled the salary DAL was offering he turned down the opportunity to go to a clearly better team. Combine that with rumors about his doc (nothing substantiated but coincidentally released in 2014) and his continuing nebulous role as “special advisor” with the Mavs and there are a lot of red-ish flags. Ultimately there is no way to tell if Dirk took a wink-wink deal and I think enough time has passed where it doesn’t really matter. I would also add that I think paying a franchise icon like Dirk to continue to promote the franchise is probably the tamest form of possible cap circumvention.

This is going to shock you, but maybe he just really wanted to stay in Dallas? And wanted the team to be competitive even understanding they were not going to be an actual contender.

Some of you appear to believe people only make decisions based on money. Dirk has never struck me this way, but again I'm biased AF. But I don't think any of you really believe Dirk is that guy either. You've followed the league, you know how Dirk has managed his career(didn't even use an agent, just sat down with Cuban when his contract was up).

Shame that Ballmer/Kawhi have done something so egregrious that we have posters just going after Jalen Brunson and Dirk two of the most stand up guys the Association has ever seen.

But its not about truth, its about assumptions no matter how baseless.

[ConSarnit]

I don't know if this is cap circumvention necessarily but I thought it was well known beforehand that Dirk and Duncan would be getting roles with their teams after retiring as players. Those cases are obviously not comparable to this though.

I think this may harm players who are okay with taking less to help teambuild, though. Basically invites scrutiny from fans and potentially the league.

They would have a role with the teams even if they insisted on max contracts. These are face of the franchise guys. In Dirk's case a singular face. Timmy has David Robinson.

But this in part is why Lebron has been adamant he won't ever take less. He doesn't want pressure put on other players or to deal with this scrutiny. And he could obviously afford to play for the min to strengthen the rosters. He's not making the max out of greed. He's doing it for all the players.

I don’t think the roles with the team are the question. The question would be how much work does it actually entail and does the total money paid close the gap from what Dirk and Duncan gave up. If Dirk is getting $3-4m a year (pure speculation on my part) as a “special advisor” then I have questions. If it’s a much smaller salary then it makes more sense.

[levon]

Multiple team strategists say that if the Clippers aren't docked multiple 1RPs and Leonard's contract isn't voided while his salary remains on the Clippers' books—they will feel emboldened to seek out their own version of shell companies to provided additional compensation to their players

https://marcstein.substack.com/p/adam-silver-says-the-onus-is-on-the?r=nuq3a&utm_medium=ios&triedRedirect=true

[ChumboChappati]

As I remember it, Kawhi just threatened that he wasn't going to re-sign with anyone besides his chosen destinations, not that he would absolutely not play for them that season. That caused some teams to lower their offers.

End of day the Raptors offered a pretty light load with not much meaningful for their future--a scorer who'd proven repeatedly to not be their answer in Derozan, a solid younger role player in Poeltl, and a single 1st. Very light offer for a legit superstar in his prime, and at that price point it was worth him as a rental who might maybe maybe stay longer.

Oh that trade was the best thing the Raptors ever did. Totally agree with you. Raptors were going nowhere with the Derozan & Lowry core.
But I just think the Raptors had to sweeten the pot a bit more for Kawhi to agree for the dance.