A Question on footage for a hall of fame type player

Vampirate · Post #1 » by **Vampirate** » Sun Sep 14, 2025 3:28 pm

This is a general sports question.

How much does a poor, fuzzy, not HD quality TV footage actually add to a player's legendary and myth status? Even more so if a player started or ended their career during when TV was only in black and white.

The old saying, you had to see it, or I was there.

The question i'm really asking is would legends 'feel' like legends if they played their entire career in ultra 4K-8K TV?

gavran · Post #2 » by **gavran** » Sun Sep 14, 2025 3:48 pm

There is a whole paper from Harvard from 2021, I think Howard et al, that says there is strong correllation between TV resolution and legendicity. I did my research.

HotelVitale · Post #3 » by **HotelVitale** » Sun Sep 14, 2025 3:52 pm

If they were sick players, sure. The clips might show the game looking more stilted or wooden back then which might make some people say it’s a joke to compare great players then and now, but some old clips you can easily see why someone’s a legend.

But I think maybe you’re talking about how people want to project honor and greatness on past people just to do it, offshoot of the Golden Age myth or the time when men were real men or whatever. That’s not how I tend to think about the past so can’t help you with that.

bkkrh · Post #4 » by **bkkrh** » Sun Sep 14, 2025 4:21 pm

Just watch some of the oldest videos on NBA.com. They will look like total crap to you, recorded on a potato. They are from 2007. Now add another 10-20 years on top of that.

Watch on YouTube

Technology will continue to evolve, fashion will always evolve. Digital cameras are around for more than 20 years, still you can tell the age of picturesst by clothing, hair styles and so on.

According to that logic we would overvalue the superstars from the 60s but in every sport I can think of most fans will not know more than, if even, a handful of players from eras they didn´t actively watch. For the NBA and the 60s it´s Wilt & Bill Russell, Jerry West since he is the logo and the Big O. Then there is already a huge gap. I wouldn´t say that Elgin Baylor, Bob Cousy, or John Havlicek are Basketball players today´s casual fan are aware of. I watch basketball since the early 90s and saw some Cousy highlights for the first time in my life this year. For the 70s I´d even say that besides Kareem and Dr. J there aren´t any commonly known players.

Lalouie · Post #5 » by **Lalouie** » Mon Sep 15, 2025 6:19 am

Vampirate wrote:This is a general sports question.

How much does a poor, fuzzy, not HD quality TV footage actually add to a player's legendary and myth status? Even more so if a player started or ended their career during when TV was only in black and white.

The old saying, you had to see it, or I was there.

The question i'm really asking is would legends 'feel' like legends if they played their entire career in ultra 4K-8K TV?

even more so

nobody in the millenium feels like a legend because legends don't feel like legends if you're still watching them play

UcanUwill · Post #6 » by **UcanUwill** » Mon Sep 15, 2025 6:34 am

Lost facts always increase chances of greater legend, thats just how history works I think. Like, let say Gilgamesh was a real guy for sure, if we saw his actual life on 4k tv, I dont think it would be as impressive as the stories :lol:

JayMKE · Post #7 » by **JayMKE** » Mon Sep 15, 2025 8:52 am

It goes both ways, recency bias is a huge thing. It’s hard to be objective without seeing

CumberlandPosey · Post #8 » by **CumberlandPosey** » Mon Sep 15, 2025 9:26 am

theres great footage available from the 70ies onwards.definitely not that 240p crap like on nba.com.maybe black and white adds to the mystique but serious evaluation doesnt rely on colors me thinks...

Maxthirty · Post #9 » by **Maxthirty** » Mon Sep 15, 2025 9:36 am

Lalouie wrote:
Vampirate wrote:This is a general sports question.

How much does a poor, fuzzy, not HD quality TV footage actually add to a player's legendary and myth status? Even more so if a player started or ended their career during when TV was only in black and white.

The old saying, you had to see it, or I was there.

The question i'm really asking is would legends 'feel' like legends if they played their entire career in ultra 4K-8K TV?

even more so

nobody in the millenium feels like a legend because legends don't feel like legends if you're still watching them play

Social media takes away a lot of the mystique IMO.

hauntedcomputer · Post #10 » by **hauntedcomputer** » Mon Sep 15, 2025 12:05 pm

JayMKE wrote:It goes both ways, recency bias is a huge thing. It’s hard to be objective without seeing

Nobody's objective. It's even worse when you think your personal eye test is "objective" or in any way useful to anyone besides you (not you personally, just any observer). That's just the story we tell ourselves to cover our biases.

I'm fine with going by a mixture of stats, reputation and contemporary writings, consideration of era, whatever footage does or doesn't exist, and then recognizing I do not care if anyone agrees with me, I am just entertaining myself on the Internet.

I can watch 30 seconds of 50s hoops and realize they had to dribble the ball on the very top only and so they HAD to stand up straight and look kind of stiff and stilted, and that any modern player would have to totally reinvent their handle to be able to get past half-court without a whistle.

I generally rank "greatness" so I don't have to worry about who would do what in today's game, or who was "better." In greatness, mythmaking is not only allowed, it's essential.

Johnny Bball · Post #11 » by **Johnny Bball** » Mon Sep 15, 2025 12:09 pm

You didn't notice it was bad at the time, so it didn't matter. You would still see giant headshots in interviews.

dhsilv2 · Post #12 » by **dhsilv2** » Mon Sep 15, 2025 3:52 pm

A lot of the youtube video looks much worse due to compression, formatting, and showing it on modern screens.

That said I think the bigger issue is we used to not see that many games. We see way more of these guys today and as a result we see more failures.

Post #13 » by **Clyde Frazier** » Mon Sep 15, 2025 4:36 pm

I specifically feel this way about 1976 Dr J. I think we just don't have enough footage to truly appreciate how great he was.

NZB2323 · Post #14 » by **NZB2323** » Mon Sep 15, 2025 7:47 pm

I feel like Lebron, Curry, and Giannis are all legendary.

Like before the finals they could show a clip of Bill Russell and Wilt going up for a rebound, Kareem’s skyhook, Dr. J’s shot from under the backboard, Magic and Bird trying to box each other out, Hakeem’s block, Jordan’s last shot, LeBron’s block, Curry hitting a crazy 3, and Giannis’s block. And I feel like we treat all those guys as legends.

But then guys who became before, like Bob Pettit, Bob Cousy, and George Mikan, we don’t really treat as legends.

On the other hand the most legendary Baseball players we don’t have a lot of good footage of, like Babe Ruth and Satchel Page.

Part of it is a popularity thing. Baseball was by far the most popular sport when

Baseball was by far the most popular sport in the 20s. The height of NBA popularity was when Jordan played. The NFL was the most popular sports league when Brady played.

mastermixer · Post #15 » by **mastermixer** » Mon Sep 15, 2025 9:13 pm

Lalouie wrote:
Vampirate wrote:This is a general sports question.

How much does a poor, fuzzy, not HD quality TV footage actually add to a player's legendary and myth status? Even more so if a player started or ended their career during when TV was only in black and white.

The old saying, you had to see it, or I was there.

The question i'm really asking is would legends 'feel' like legends if they played their entire career in ultra 4K-8K TV?

even more so

nobody in the millenium feels like a legend because legends don't feel like legends if you're still watching them play

Idk I feel like I’m watching a legend when I watch Jokic.

kcktiny · Post #16 » by **kcktiny** » Tue Sep 16, 2025 12:18 am

For the 70s I´d even say that besides Kareem and Dr. J there aren´t any commonly known players.

Any of these names ring a bell?:

Pete Maravich
Walt Frazier
Rick Barry
Tiny Archibald
Bob McAdoo
Elvin Hayes
Dave Cowens
Bill Walton
David Thompson
George Gervin
Moses Malone
World B.Free
Marques Johnson

Some of the biggest stars of the 70s.

I specifically feel this way about 1976 Dr J. I think we just don't have enough footage to truly appreciate how great he was.

There are lots of old NBA games on YouTube. You want to watch Dr. J. just type in "1976-77 Philadelphia 76ers" or "1977-78 NBA" or something similar and you will find full games, some with darn good video quality for being 50 years old.

Watch on YouTube

Lalouie · Post #17 » by **Lalouie** » Tue Sep 16, 2025 4:41 am

mastermixer wrote:
Lalouie wrote:
Vampirate wrote:This is a general sports question.

How much does a poor, fuzzy, not HD quality TV footage actually add to a player's legendary and myth status? Even more so if a player started or ended their career during when TV was only in black and white.

The old saying, you had to see it, or I was there.

The question i'm really asking is would legends 'feel' like legends if they played their entire career in ultra 4K-8K TV?

even more so

nobody in the millenium feels like a legend because legends don't feel like legends if you're still watching them play

Idk I feel like I’m watching a legend when I watch Jokic.

i think of old guys who've gotten fat