Bears thread 13

[jnrjr79]

Schefter reporting that JJ is out indefinitely with the groin injury and the Bears are investigating whether he needs surgery.

Not great, Bob.

If they’re investigating surgery I wouldn’t play him for 3 months with or without surgery. As it is, it seems like they rushed him to play without very slowly ramping him up in practice. Or he did it to himself because he wants to renegotiate his deal. Someone did.

Or, everyone thought he was good to go, but under game stress, he tweaked it again. Doesn't have to be someone's mistake.

The updated reporting today is it’s actually a new injury and not an aggravation of the existing injury, but who knows. That could be CYA.

[panthermark]

This is true if you don’t believe in momentum/the bottom falling out.

If you lack the resiliency to stop two bad plays from letting the bottom fall out, that also likely means you are not a good team, because that kind of stuff is going to happen every game.

See game against Washington last year.

[dice]

Sure, but you can never know whether the game goes the same way if things break differently before. Who knows? Players aren't robots. Maybe that stuff would've mattered, maybe not.

That said, I have a hard time seeing them overcome the Jaylon Johnson injury. That secondary was just massively outgunned without him.

Of all the maybes that can potentially exist in a football game, I think they are least valuable in a game you lost by 31. In the end, there is a lot of variance and chance in every game, and part of being a winning football game is being good enough that chance doesn't work against you so often. When you lose by 31, one amount of other things that would need to happen differently is absurdly large.

This is true if you don’t believe in momentum/the bottom falling out.

perhaps the bears were actually a playoff team last year and the commanders ending ruined them psychologically? or was it caleb being a disappointment along w/ little running game, bad coaching and a mediocre pass rush?

[dice]

Read on Twitter

Honestly, this seems fine. Of those salaries, maybe you'd want out of the Sweat contract. I'd imagine you could dump DJ Moore for a later pick if you just want to shed his deal. Kmet is only $3M, so that would be an easy one otherwise unload. All the rest of the guys you want to keep.

unless he plays out of his mind the rest of the year, edmunds is a goner

[dice]

week 2 PFF:

83 sewell
80 sweat
75 brisker
72 rome
69 jarrett
68 jackson
67 caleb
66 darnell
65 OZ/edwards
62 kmet
61 thuney
59 dalman
57 DJ
53 swift
52 edmunds
49 loveland
48 dayo
46 braxton
45 dexter
42 mccloud
30 tyrique
29 wright
26 byard

[Almost Retired]

Seeing as how our pass rush is so anemic I think drafting an EDGE in Round One next year is more important than using that pick for J. Love for the running game. Unless we really suck for the remainder of the year due to injuries I don't think we'll have a shot at TJ Parker from Clemson. But there are other guys to watch this season: LT Overton from Alabama, Rueben Bain Jr from Miami, Kendrick Faulk from Auburn, and Peter Wood from Clemson.

We can get a pretty good RB1 (potentially) in Round 2 or 3: Makhi Hughes from Tulane, Kaytron Allen from Penn State, Jonah Coleman from Washington, or CJ Baxter from Texas.

And then there is the secondary to worry about. So many holes. Not enough Draft picks. That's what happens when you whiff so frequently with your 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks which should produce starters. I'm not totally down on Poles, but in this recent draft they overdrafted for skill positions when the foundation of the roster was weak in important areas. If Trapillo can only play RT then maybe they should trade Darnell Wright before they have to pay him big money. He's regressed since his rookie season. I no longer view him as a "must keep" player. Same with Kmet. Kmet is s good player, but we've never utilized him to his potential. Dayo looks like a bust so far. I hope Austin Booker can get back on the field soon.

[patryk7754]

I think we should keep our eyes on the Dolphins. They're surely about to blow it up and they have some guys on defense that could help us out. The first two that come to mind are Fitzpatrick and Jaelan Phillips. Maybe even both. Given where the Dolphins are and the fact that Fitzpatrick has already been trade this seaosn and has a big contract and that Phillips has a serious injury history, I would guess that their value is realtively low. I think Pillips could be had for a 4/5 and Fitzpatrick maybe for a 3rd. If we could do something like Byrad (who I don't think will be on the team past this season anyway) and, at most, two 3rds, I would do that in a heartbeat.

[fleet]

Read on Twitter

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

I think we should keep our eyes on the Dolphins. They're surely about to blow it up and they have some guys on defense that could help us out. The first two that come to mind are Fitzpatrick and Jaelan Phillips. Maybe even both. Given where the Dolphins are and the fact that Fitzpatrick has already been trade this seaosn and has a big contract and that Phillips has a serious injury history, I would guess that their value is realtively low. I think Pillips could be had for a 4/5 and Fitzpatrick maybe for a 3rd. If we could do something like Byrad (who I don't think will be on the team past this season anyway) and, at most, two 3rds, I would do that in a heartbeat.

Why would we be buyers? We’re 0-2 in the division, JJ’s likely out for the season, and Gordon can’t stay on the field. I suppose we could maximize Caleb’s rookie contract window, but is that even a thing anymore?

[patryk7754]

Seeing as how our pass rush is so anemic I think drafting an EDGE in Round One next year is more important than using that pick for J. Love for the running game. Unless we really suck for the remainder of the year due to injuries I don't think we'll have a shot at TJ Parker from Clemson. But there are other guys to watch this season: LT Overton from Alabama, Rueben Bain Jr from Miami, Kendrick Faulk from Auburn, and Peter Wood from Clemson.

We can get a pretty good RB1 (potentially) in Round 2 or 3: Makhi Hughes from Tulane, Kaytron Allen from Penn State, Jonah Coleman from Washington, or CJ Baxter from Texas.

And then there is the secondary to worry about. So many holes. Not enough Draft picks. That's what happens when you whiff so frequently with your 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks which should produce starters. I'm not totally down on Poles, but in this recent draft they overdrafted for skill positions when the foundation of the roster was weak in important areas. If Trapillo can only play RT then maybe they should trade Darnell Wright before they have to pay him big money. He's regressed since his rookie season. I no longer view him as a "must keep" player. Same with Kmet. Kmet is s good player, but we've never utilized him to his potential. Dayo looks like a bust so far. I hope Austin Booker can get back on the field soon.

I think the strategy should be DE in the 1st, established vet LT via FA (or trade) and a FA RB. Then double down on CB. One in the second round and a vet to play CB2 while our rookie develops. haven't checked on who the available guys would be this off-season yet, but I think that's the best strategy to have.

Unless there's a Alt 2.0 in this draft, rookies are too unreliable for such an important position, and Poles has neglected LT for far too long as is. DE is easier for rookies than LT so whoever we draft has a better chance to have an immediate impact. JJ and Gordon are too injury prone and i'm done with stevenson, so we draft a CB high and sign a vet CB. I think RB can be one of the better values in the league if you can get a top 10 back for a cheap deal, something like 6/7/8m a year and i think that will be better than a rookie RB, unless the best RBs drop to us later in the draft.

[panthermark]

I think we should keep our eyes on the Dolphins. They're surely about to blow it up and they have some guys on defense that could help us out. The first two that come to mind are Fitzpatrick and Jaelan Phillips. Maybe even both. Given where the Dolphins are and the fact that Fitzpatrick has already been trade this seaosn and has a big contract and that Phillips has a serious injury history, I would guess that their value is realtively low. I think Pillips could be had for a 4/5 and Fitzpatrick maybe for a 3rd. If we could do something like Byrad (who I don't think will be on the team past this season anyway) and, at most, two 3rds, I would do that in a heartbeat.

I don't fully trust Poles to make roster moves.

[patryk7754]

I think we should keep our eyes on the Dolphins. They're surely about to blow it up and they have some guys on defense that could help us out. The first two that come to mind are Fitzpatrick and Jaelan Phillips. Maybe even both. Given where the Dolphins are and the fact that Fitzpatrick has already been trade this seaosn and has a big contract and that Phillips has a serious injury history, I would guess that their value is realtively low. I think Pillips could be had for a 4/5 and Fitzpatrick maybe for a 3rd. If we could do something like Byrad (who I don't think will be on the team past this season anyway) and, at most, two 3rds, I would do that in a heartbeat.

Why would we be buyers? We’re 0-2 in the division, JJ’s likely out for the season, and Gordon can’t stay on the field. I suppose we could maximize Caleb’s rookie contract window, but is that even a thing anymore?

Two main reasons: first, like you mentioned, to maximize Caleb’s rookie contract window, and second, I don’t have the patience for another rebuild year.

I get the pushback on trading for a high cost vet like Fitzpatrick, but I don’t think we should be in “rebuild” mode anymore. We’ve invested heavily in offensive talent and already have the QB on a rookie deal and I think now it’s about plugging obvious holes, especially if it can be done for relatively low trade value. Yes, people will say patience is needed with a rookie HC and second-year QB, but the front office has already committed a lot of money and assets to win-now moves. We shouldn’t be in contention for worst team in the league again.

The secondary is weak (injuries are part of that), so if someone like Fitzpatrick is available for a 3rd or 4th, that’s a no-brainer. Maybe it’s sunk cost fallacy, but I don’t care much about picks as long as Poles is in charge—he hasn’t proven to be great at drafting. On top of that Byard probably won’t be on the team after this season and he had a terrible game against the lions, so we get an immediate upgrade plus we know who will be our safety beyond this season. The desire to trade for Fitzpatrick is a bit reactionary to the lions game, but regardless, we need an upgrade in the second, even before Jj probably being our the majority of the season, and I envision Fitzpatrick being the best DB that can realistically become available.

As for Phillips, that’s a low-risk, high-reward move any team should consider. He’s shown top-tier pass rush ability, just with bad injury luck. Given Miami’s situation and his history, I doubt he’d fetch more than a 4th. For that price, even with the injury risk, his upside makes it worth it.

[patryk7754]

I think we should keep our eyes on the Dolphins. They're surely about to blow it up and they have some guys on defense that could help us out. The first two that come to mind are Fitzpatrick and Jaelan Phillips. Maybe even both. Given where the Dolphins are and the fact that Fitzpatrick has already been trade this seaosn and has a big contract and that Phillips has a serious injury history, I would guess that their value is realtively low. I think Pillips could be had for a 4/5 and Fitzpatrick maybe for a 3rd. If we could do something like Byrad (who I don't think will be on the team past this season anyway) and, at most, two 3rds, I would do that in a heartbeat.

I don't fully trust Poles to make roster moves.

Agreed. That’s why he needs to read my posts and do exactly as I say.

I trust poles more to add talent via trade or FA than using the draft. So, if he’s just going to waste picks on players in the draft that won’t pan out to much, then I think it’s better he just uses those picks for established, proven players. I don’t like that might be our best option, but I think that’s where we are and with Williams being on his rookie deal, this is our best chance to take advantage of cap flexibility

[patryk7754]

It doesn't necessarily have to be with the dolphins, but we should take advantage of teams potentially blowing it up and buy good talent for a low cost...I already mentioned Fitzpatrick and Phillips. Could maybe throw Chubb in there too, but he doesn't bring what we need. With the Burrow injury, maybe Hendrickson becomes tradeable again, and this time his trade value should be a lot cheaper (or i assume it would be)

[panthermark]

I think we should keep our eyes on the Dolphins. They're surely about to blow it up and they have some guys on defense that could help us out. The first two that come to mind are Fitzpatrick and Jaelan Phillips. Maybe even both. Given where the Dolphins are and the fact that Fitzpatrick has already been trade this seaosn and has a big contract and that Phillips has a serious injury history, I would guess that their value is realtively low. I think Pillips could be had for a 4/5 and Fitzpatrick maybe for a 3rd. If we could do something like Byrad (who I don't think will be on the team past this season anyway) and, at most, two 3rds, I would do that in a heartbeat.

I don't fully trust Poles to make roster moves.

Agreed. That’s why he needs to read my posts and do exactly as I say.

I trust poles more to add talent via trade or FA than using the draft. So, if he’s just going to waste picks on players in the draft that won’t pan out to much, then I think it’s better he just uses those picks for established, proven players. I don’t like that might be our best option, but I think that’s where we are and with Williams being on his rookie deal, this is our best chance to take advantage of cap flexibility

I think we are on the brink of being sellers. Probably a good thing our bye week is so early.
I'd say one more loss before the Bye week and it is time to put a bunch of folks on the block. (Too bad we can't put Poles on the block)

It is about to be shoot out time with this banged up D. Lots of yards through the air (and sacks) when playing from behind.

[patryk7754]

I don't fully trust Poles to make roster moves.

Agreed. That’s why he needs to read my posts and do exactly as I say.

I trust poles more to add talent via trade or FA than using the draft. So, if he’s just going to waste picks on players in the draft that won’t pan out to much, then I think it’s better he just uses those picks for established, proven players. I don’t like that might be our best option, but I think that’s where we are and with Williams being on his rookie deal, this is our best chance to take advantage of cap flexibility

I think we are on the brink of being sellers. Probably a good thing our bye week is so early.
I'd say one more loss before the Bye week and it is time to put a bunch of folks on the block. (Too bad we can't put Poles on the block)

It is about to be shoot out time with this banged up D. Lots of yards through the air (and sacks) when playing from behind.

you're probably right about the idea that we should be seller, I just can't convince myself Poles will do it the right way. Like already mentioned, Poles doesn't give too much confidence that he'll make the right picks in the draft, so idk if its worth trading our established high level talent like Moore just to waste the pick later. If we do become seller, I don't think it happens during the season (unless we are having the worst season possible at the deadline). I can see us trading Kmet, though. Regardless of where we are as a team. He became expendable as soon as we drafted Loveland and unless he starts averaging crazy numbers, I don't think Poles would hesitate to trade him for the right price.

[patryk7754]

**** it. Caleb and two 1st for burrow

[Almost Retired]

**** it. Caleb and two 1st for burrow

As often as Burrow gets injured I wouldn't trade Caleb for him even straight up. And Burrow makes too much money. His annual average salary is $55 Million a year. That's too much money to pay a guy who watches in street clothes half the time. Some guys are just snake bit with injuries. Burrow is for sure. Our Tevin Jenkins was the same way. And we have other guys not playing to their salary costs due to injury. Lots of soft tissue injuries this year too. Is our training staff missing something? Do they not have the players stretching before practices? Groins and hamstrings have pretty much killed our season.

[Almost Retired]

I don't fully trust Poles to make roster moves.

Agreed. That’s why he needs to read my posts and do exactly as I say.

I trust poles more to add talent via trade or FA than using the draft. So, if he’s just going to waste picks on players in the draft that won’t pan out to much, then I think it’s better he just uses those picks for established, proven players. I don’t like that might be our best option, but I think that’s where we are and with Williams being on his rookie deal, this is our best chance to take advantage of cap flexibility

I think we are on the brink of being sellers. Probably a good thing our bye week is so early.

I'd say one more loss before the Bye week and it is time to put a bunch of folks on the block. (Too bad we can't put Poles on the block)

It is about to be shoot out time with this banged up D. Lots of yards through the air (and sacks) when playing from behind.

If we're 0-4 heading into the Bye week I'd definitely in the camp of dumping some vets. DJ Moore for one. Rome Odunze is now WR1 for all practical purposes. Moore makes too much money for a WR2. I'd take any reasonable offer. Getting rid of him opens things up for Luther Burden. Edmunds is as good as gone. Not much or a cap hit if we dumped him. If he can get us a 5th or 6th rounder all the better, but I doubt it. And finally Kmet. Since we don't know how to use him and Caleb can't seem to spot him downfield he's a luxury we can afford to move on from. For all the projections of two TE sets productiom from the TE position has been nonexistent for whatever reasons.

[patryk7754]

Agreed. That’s why he needs to read my posts and do exactly as I say.

I trust poles more to add talent via trade or FA than using the draft. So, if he’s just going to waste picks on players in the draft that won’t pan out to much, then I think it’s better he just uses those picks for established, proven players. I don’t like that might be our best option, but I think that’s where we are and with Williams being on his rookie deal, this is our best chance to take advantage of cap flexibility

I think we are on the brink of being sellers. Probably a good thing our bye week is so early.

I'd say one more loss before the Bye week and it is time to put a bunch of folks on the block. (Too bad we can't put Poles on the block)

It is about to be shoot out time with this banged up D. Lots of yards through the air (and sacks) when playing from behind.

If we're 0-4 heading into the Bye week I'd definitely in the camp of dumping some vets. DJ Moore for one. Rome Odunze is now WR1 for all practical purposes. Moore makes too much money for a WR2. I'd take any reasonable offer. Getting rid of him opens things up for Luther Burden. Edmunds is as good as gone. Not much or a cap hit if we dumped him. If he can get us a 5th or 6th rounder all the better, but I doubt it. And finally Kmet. Since we don't know how to use him and Caleb can't seem to spot him downfield he's a luxury we can afford to move on from. For all the projections of two TE sets productiom from the TE position has been nonexistent for whatever reasons.

Only push back i have is trading moore. I don't think we get enough in return by moving him. and even if he is WR2, our WR1 is still on the rookie deal. I don't think playing time for other WRs and a 3rd is worth moving moore. Maybe in the off-season.